Bible Discussion Thread

Free Grace vs Lordship Salvation

Do you believe in free grace opposed to lordship salvation? That is faith without works is dead ( James 2:26) only in THE EYES of MEN, not in the eyes of God. In this case, works would not provide evidence of faith. We have to look closely at what James is saying. If he does not contradict Paul ( Romans 4:5), no works must be needed as a result of faith alone. Otherwise it is not faith alone.

Hi Mark,

My comment is that salvation is conditional whether people believe it or not, because its what the Bible says. It's full of calls to action and challenging us to change our behavior. Most people will not be saved Matthew 7:13. Salvation is with grace but is only for believers/followers- a choice that each person must make. One way to summarize this action appears to be genuine belief and faith in Jesus Christ. John 3:16. That is an action and choice.

So, if someone does not believe, one can presume the unbeliever will not be saved. This already "offends" a lot of people, because some want to justify themselves in their own mind while doing the bare minimum they assume God wants. Some have been deceived into believing obeying God is "bad." But believing is only one of many action verbs the Bible challenges us to do. Other actions fall under this category of genuine active belief and following Jesus too. All these verses in the Bible are true and are equally important. Some like to cherry pick one, but ignore others and assume they don't apply, but they all apply and are true and are God's word.

believe:

John 3:16

follow Jesus:

John 8:12

deny himself:

Luke 9:23

confess:

Romans 10:9

faith:

Ephesians 2:8

hearing:

Romans 10:17

repent and be baptized:

Acts 2:38

keep commandments:

John 15:10

love:

Matthew 22:37-40

There are many more. Some falsely assume by obeying God they are doing 'works' and that is 'bad', therefore, obeying God is 'bad'. No, that's not what the Bible says, and obeying doesn't mean you're saved by works or that people who obey believe that.

My last comment is that James and Paul are consistent. Some assume Paul was anti-works, but only if you cherry pick a few verses and ignore large parts of his book can that conclusion be drawn. Paul was very much pro-obedience as the following verses demonstrate:

Romans 2:9-10

1 Peter 1:5

1 Cor 9:24-27

Hebrews 6:4-6

Galatians 5:1-4

2 Timothy 2:10

Hebrews 10:26

2 Corinthians 5:10

Mark. Romans 8 tells us starting out there is no condemnation to us who walk by the spirit and talks about the effects causes and benefits of walking and it walking by the spirit one by the senses old man nature death the other life and peace so

Choice is always involved. P.S. So we who choose to be honest in our walks

Endeavor with exerted effort to renew our minds to be more like Christ and others

Just use the grace but thank God his position of born again by grace no works or

Any man could boast is priceless! P.S. the rewards at the bema are based on what

We do with what we have been given. So do your best for His Highest!

Mark. You are talking beliefs of one condition, I'll explain. There are those that

Believe that being born again is conditional based on what you will do in your

Walk or works which could be described as lordship. Then there are those that

Teach salvation is a free gift which it is and if you are born again your going to heaven no matter what you do i.e. works. The Apostle Paul covered this in

Romans Chapter 7+8 in seven he tells us our old man nature is in constant battle

With our spirit one of which the flesh fights against the spirit. Now no one walks

Perfectly in the spirit but we who desire to walk like our Lord and saviour will

Manifest that fruit that does not mean we don't break fellowship ever but we

Acknowledge ask forgiveness and continue to walk i.e.lordship. Then there's

The group that teaches and kinda gives the impression that when your born again

Your going to heaven period. Now that is true biblically but the individual is being

Deceived into thinking he can do whatever he wants and have God's blessing

Wrong because what you sew is still what you reap no matter born again or not.

The way to tell the difference is fruit. Again nobody walks perfectly and God

Almighty knew this that's why we have a Saviour also this is the age of Grace

Which is (human nature) takes advantage of these things but God doesn't mess

With free will. So in closing there will be people who will walk for a while and cop

Out and there will be those that stand a lifetime, this is the sower and the seed.

Please note these scriptures all seem to include treatment of people : James 2, note James 2:1-6, James 2:8, * James 2:14,15,16,17,

Matthew 25:31-46, Isaiah 58, John 13:34, Romans 12:10, Romans 13:8, 1Peter 3:8, Hebrews 10:24,

Romans 4, notice in those 'works' it's speaking of circumcision Romans 4:1, Romans 4:9-13, not acts of compassion

They don't contradict each other they're completely separate issues, Deuteronomy 10:16-20,

Malachi 3:5,10 = Deuteronomy 26:10-13 , Exodus 22:22, Deuteronomy 14:22-29, Deuteronomy 24:14-15, Deuteronomy 24:19-21,

Matthew 5:16-20, Matthew 7:12-27 = Mark 12:38-40, Mark 23, Luke 20:46,47, Isaiah 9:17,

Hopefully helpful

Can you define Lordship Salvation and Free Grace Salvation in a format such as this:

Lordship Salvation is......

Free Grace Salvations is......

Doing so will help us know better how to respond to your question.