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There are those in the Post Mil camp who insist the events of the end of this chapter are the same as that of Armageddon; or the Second Coming of Christ (i.e. there is no literal millennium period). This is excused by explaining that the church has been in the "Millennium" since the church age began at the Resurrection; and somehow it has extended almost 2000 years. The fact that the Beast and False Prophet are thrown into the lake of fire first and Satan is cast where they ARE at the end of the period should be clear enough. We also could look at the rule of Christ as the "day of rest" which would be the last thousand of a seven thousand year time frame allotted for man much like the pattern of 7 days of creation with the last day of rest. We see differences too in the type of invasion at the end of the Millennium (no weapons are mentioned and instead of being centered in a small valley it is a widespread mass from the whole earth.) There is some argument about the Gog and Magog war being in both time frames (Trib and at the end of the 1000 years) or one or another. That can be covered elsewhere. With Christ reigning He won't allow the years of famine; war and pestilence once again to occur (remember He said it would be a worse time than ever before OR again). The next chapter shows a new heavens and new earth where heavenly Jerusalem comes DOWN to earth.
We have the literal fulfillment of prophecies about Israel as to it's territory; and national repentance such as Zechariah 12:12 which simply hasn't happened yet. There are covenantal promises; which as far as I can tell don't have to be a mutually exclusive thing from dispensational time periods. The church is a new covenant which Christ fulfilled the law and made the perfect sacrifice once and for all. Or; more simply put with Christ ruling the THEOCRACY of Israel will return; and it will finally achieve the glory destined for it.
The theory that the millenium started since the begining of the church era and stretches till nowadays (and goes further on) is not new. It is a doctrine in Eastern Orthodox Chistianity. They believe that the 1000 year period is not a litteral period of time but it is figurative. and all events described are also figurative
Why do they think that? They rely on the verses in 2 Peter 3:8-10. "(8) But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. (9) The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.(10) But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up."
In verse 10 it says that the day of the Lord will come when everything (ie earth and sky) will be burned away. But that time occurs at the end of the millenium.( Revelation 21:1).It is when everything old goes away and new earth and heavens are created. So they consequently reject the theory of a pretribulation rapture.
What could be the answer to that? A possible answer (that my church believe is right) is that what is called "the day of Lord" is not literally a day or a specific time but a period of time. A period during which all the events leading to the complete ending of this world will take place, stretching from the pretribulation rapture to the White Throne. It seems that there is no other solution since we have to combine 3 different events in one "day". (a)The rapture, which for me is clear enough that will take place when things in the world are still going well. (b)The second coming of Jesus on earth. We know that time, it is at the end of the 7th week. (c)The distruction of the old universe.
I am adding this, so I am not to be misunderstood.
With the phrase "day of the Lord" the Bible refers to 3 different dates:
1. the rupture, which to me it seems to take place before the antichrist makes his appearance in the world, when things are still going well, so people deal with their everyday works as usual. This is something that can not be possible at the end of the 7 year tribulation period where so many catastrophies will take place and people will be scared to death.
2. the second coming of Jesus on earth to fight the antichrist with his army at Armagedon.
3. In those verses in 2 Peter 3:8-10 it is implied that the day of the Lord is at the end of the millenium.
So 3 different dates are called the same name, "the day of the Lord"
Those verses in Peter are very confusing to understand, if the millenium is a literal period of time. How come the Lord comes as a thief in the night when we know when the end of the millenium is, and the saints are already ruling the world?
Personally, I don't believe that the millemium is a figurative event like the Ortodoxes believe. So the only solution is that "day of the Lord" are called all 3 different dates. Same name, different dates.
The foundation of amillennial belief is free will to choose to accept our human condition after leaving the first commandment, yet carrying the promise of redemption to the Cross by repentance and faith. The be-hind the scenes belief is in understanding the non-resistance Jesus had to the Cross and that he called his followers to do the same. Non-resistance and the predetermined will are incompatible with a return of Christ to the earth. The redeemed carry the promise fulfilled in peace in their hearts and lives until the last day.
Hello GIGI! Thank you for your kindness. I am well. I was inspired to check the site this morning discussion wise. I use the site daily for finding scriptures. Thank you Admin! I hope you are well your way too. I still have another eye surgery to go and then finally some glasses to see up close again soon afterwards. My son passed through your area and missed at least half of our extreme heat here a week ago. Fall will soon be here. :)
Let us know when your surgery is so we can pray for you then. It is still warm here in the Puget Sound area. Last two days have been really hazy due to wildfires to the north and south. I am staying indoors so the smoke filled air does not inflame my lungs to kick up my asthma a notch or two. But forecast is for it to clear out tomorrow or so with a onshore marine push advancing upon us. This will clear the air well. I love these days in late summer. I can tell that Autumn is just around the corner, but there are still some summer days ahead. Usually, September sunny days are so comfortable and enjoyable.
Good evening GIGI, I am sorry to hear about fires your way. Hopefully soon rains without lightening will make a nice autumn for many! I should have said so earlier, my eye surgery is tomorrow and I do covet everyone's prayers.
Dear Heavenly Father, we lift up Carleton as he undergoes surgery to repair damage to his eye today. Guide the hands of the surgeons and bring about a successful result, restoring Carleton's eye to better function and allowing this eye to see clearly again. Give Carleton a quick and effective recovery from surgery. Keep him safe through this procedure and we ask for the best outcome for his sight. LORD GOD, we know that You can restore sight to the blind, so by faith, we trust that Your will for Carleton is perfect as You answer this prayer we offer in Jesus' name. Amen.
There are those in the Post Mil camp who insist the events of the end of this chapter are the same as that of Armageddon; or the Second Coming of Christ (i.e. there is no literal millennium period). This is excused by explaining that the church has been in the "Millennium" since the church age began at the Resurrection; and somehow it has extended almost 2000 years. The fact that the Beast and False Prophet are thrown into the lake of fire first and Satan is cast where they ARE at the end of the period should be clear enough. We also could look at the rule of Christ as the "day of rest" which would be the last thousand of a seven thousand year time frame allotted for man much like the pattern of 7 days of creation with the last day of rest. We see differences too in the type of invasion at the end of the Millennium (no weapons are mentioned and instead of being centered in a small valley it is a widespread mass from the whole earth.) There is some argument about the Gog and Magog war being in both time frames (Trib and at the end of the 1000 years) or one or another. That can be covered elsewhere. With Christ reigning He won't allow the years of famine; war and pestilence once again to occur (remember He said it would be a worse time than ever before OR again). The next chapter shows a new heavens and new earth where heavenly Jerusalem comes DOWN to earth.
We have the literal fulfillment of prophecies about Israel as to it's territory; and national repentance such as Zechariah 12:12 which simply hasn't happened yet. There are covenantal promises; which as far as I can tell don't have to be a mutually exclusive thing from dispensational time periods. The church is a new covenant which Christ fulfilled the law and made the perfect sacrifice once and for all. Or; more simply put with Christ ruling the THEOCRACY of Israel will return; and it will finally achieve the glory destined for it.
The theory that the millenium started since the begining of the church era and stretches till nowadays (and goes further on) is not new. It is a doctrine in Eastern Orthodox Chistianity. They believe that the 1000 year period is not a litteral period of time but it is figurative. and all events described are also figurative
Why do they think that? They rely on the verses in 2 Peter 3:8-10. "(8) But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. (9) The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.(10) But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up."
In verse 10 it says that the day of the Lord will come when everything (ie earth and sky) will be burned away. But that time occurs at the end of the millenium.( Revelation 21:1).It is when everything old goes away and new earth and heavens are created. So they consequently reject the theory of a pretribulation rapture.
What could be the answer to that? A possible answer (that my church believe is right) is that what is called "the day of Lord" is not literally a day or a specific time but a period of time. A period during which all the events leading to the complete ending of this world will take place, stretching from the pretribulation rapture to the White Throne. It seems that there is no other solution since we have to combine 3 different events in one "day". (a)The rapture, which for me is clear enough that will take place when things in the world are still going well. (b)The second coming of Jesus on earth. We know that time, it is at the end of the 7th week. (c)The distruction of the old universe.
With the phrase "day of the Lord" the Bible refers to 3 different dates:
1. the rupture, which to me it seems to take place before the antichrist makes his appearance in the world, when things are still going well, so people deal with their everyday works as usual. This is something that can not be possible at the end of the 7 year tribulation period where so many catastrophies will take place and people will be scared to death.
2. the second coming of Jesus on earth to fight the antichrist with his army at Armagedon.
3. In those verses in 2 Peter 3:8-10 it is implied that the day of the Lord is at the end of the millenium.
So 3 different dates are called the same name, "the day of the Lord"
Those verses in Peter are very confusing to understand, if the millenium is a literal period of time. How come the Lord comes as a thief in the night when we know when the end of the millenium is, and the saints are already ruling the world?
Personally, I don't believe that the millemium is a figurative event like the Ortodoxes believe. So the only solution is that "day of the Lord" are called all 3 different dates. Same name, different dates.
:)
As Always glad to hear from you. How are you doing?
Are you seeing better now? I have been thinking of you.
Carleton
Let us know when your surgery is so we can pray for you then. It is still warm here in the Puget Sound area. Last two days have been really hazy due to wildfires to the north and south. I am staying indoors so the smoke filled air does not inflame my lungs to kick up my asthma a notch or two. But forecast is for it to clear out tomorrow or so with a onshore marine push advancing upon us. This will clear the air well. I love these days in late summer. I can tell that Autumn is just around the corner, but there are still some summer days ahead. Usually, September sunny days are so comfortable and enjoyable.
Thank you!
:)
Dear Heavenly Father, we lift up Carleton as he undergoes surgery to repair damage to his eye today. Guide the hands of the surgeons and bring about a successful result, restoring Carleton's eye to better function and allowing this eye to see clearly again. Give Carleton a quick and effective recovery from surgery. Keep him safe through this procedure and we ask for the best outcome for his sight. LORD GOD, we know that You can restore sight to the blind, so by faith, we trust that Your will for Carleton is perfect as You answer this prayer we offer in Jesus' name. Amen.
:)
I will pray for you.
*resistant or resistance
God bless our conversation in Christ Jesus!
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