Bible Discussion Thread

Could not understand verse 9 could not pronounce the name is there a clearer version of the book

Hello Linda

In John 3:9 Paul is speaking about Diotrephes, who must have been a leader or elder in the congregation. Diotrephes was prideful, arrogant, and wanted to be the "top dog" in this congregation and to be admired by the congregants. He would not show hospitality to traveling missionaries such as Paul, refused them to enter their congregation and do any preaching, as he thought only he should preach. He also told the members of this congregation to not show hospitality, or meet with, or listen to these missionaries preach. If they did, Diotrephes put these members out of the church. He spoke maliciously about these traveling missionaries, disparaging them to those in his congregation. Diotresphes showed many signs of being an aberrant cult leader.

Hello Linda

Diotrephes? I always enjoy how English people try to pronounce greek names. Since phonetics are very different something that is very easy to pronounce in grk is very hard to pronounce in Eng. I'll wait until somebody answers and then I will tell you how it is pronounced in greek. (If you get a Spaniard or an Italian he'll get it right).

Hi Giannis. My submission to your request on the phonetic pronunciation of Diotrephes is, dee-ot-ref-ace. This is from Strong's Greek.

Hi Chris.

Sory for my delayed reply but I was not able to respond so far.

Firstly you don't have to pronounce those names like greeks do, I am sure the English way is enough.

But just for the sake of the conversation. Well some tips tips about greek pronunciation, we are going to need them.

Vowels: "a" is pronounced as "ah", "i" as "ee"(short), "o" as "oh" , "e", this letter is used in Engl. to represant two different grk. letters 1. a letter called "epsilon" which is pronounced as "eh" and 2. a letter called "eta" which is pronounced as a long "eh" (ancient grk) or as "ee"(modern grk), "u" as "oo"(anc grk) or "ee"(mod. grk), "ou" as "oh-oo"(anc. grk) or "oo" (mod.grk).

Syllables: Syllabes in greek are of the form consonant(or double/triple cons.)-vowel, a single vowel, very few times as cons-vowel-cons(usually at the end of the word) and rarely vowel-cons.(most often at the end).

Consonants. With the letter "d" the grk letter "Delta" is represented. Delta is pron. as "d"(anc.grk) or "th"(mod. grk) like in the word "the"

So lets try it: (I am writting the vowels as pronounced).

Ancient greek- Dee-oh-treh-feh(long)s

Modern greek- Thee-oh-treh-fee(short)s, stressed in the last syllable.

Lets try another one"

"Pantokrator Theos", greek for ""Almighty God"

Tip: the combinaion "nt" is pronounced as "d" in mod. grk.

So, it is "Pah-doh-krah-tohr Theh-ohs", stressed the first in "krah" and the second in "ohs", also the "r" is always pronounced at the end.

Some more: Europe in ancient greek is "Eh-oo-roh-peh(long), stressed in "roh". Australia is "Ah-oo-strah-lee-a"

Headache? Well, not surprised at all. The phonetics are so different. The same happened to me when I tried to learn German a few years ago, I was spraining my tongue all the time so I gave up at the end.

GBU

Thanks brother for that useful short Greek lesson. When you wrote "Ancient greek - Dee-oh-treh-feh(long)s", it seems that what Strong's has shown is very similar - so maybe this ancient Greek is what's being used.

And then you mentioned, "Modern greek - Thee-oh-treh-fee(short)s, stressed in the last syllable." This was interesting, because in Hindi/Urdu, we have the 'heavy D' (the tongue dropping from the roof of the mouth) and the 'soft D' (tongue between the teeth). And then we get the 'aspirated D' (heavy D with air expelled). So I can appreciate that in Greek also, there are similar variations to alphabetical sounds.

As for German, I did a year's study while at school. Was able to read it fairly well, but got only a little further than, 'ich bin, du bist, er ist, etc. etc.' Languages are wonderful - wish I had the gift to acquire them more easily & fully. Thanks again for taking the time to help us appreciate your wonderful language, that of the NT.

Thank you, Giannis, this is helpful.

But then again, even if I get the vowel sounds correct, knowing which syllable to stress is another matter. But at least I can get a closer pronunciation with your good information.

Hello Giannis,

Yes, it is a funny thing, as you say. We try our best, even with all of the Hebrew names and places in the O.T. But being able to pronounce names accurately is not necessary to understand Scripture, thankfully. I do appreciate your help with Greek. Thank you.

Diot tree fees , say those sylabils as I've written them . Diot , like diet but with o instead of an e , tree as in green trees and fees as in your fees that you pay to your bank etc . Don't worry too much about pronunciation , it's not greatly important . If you look around you might be able to find a Bible with the pronunciation symbols . I have one of those . I haven't read this Bible on line , I'm surprised they aren't included . If required I can tell you what the pronunciation symbols are but that would be pointless unless your Bible has them . My advice ? If these things bother you , go and buy a paper Bible with the pronunciation symbols . They aren't hard to get , I have several .