Warning: session_start(): open(/var/lib/lsphp/session/lsphp80/sess_ii8m6b32uqj723ho7ppspa794h, O_RDWR) failed: No space left on device (28) in /home/kjv.site/public_html/Discussion-Thread/index.php on line 2
Warning: session_start(): Failed to read session data: files (path: /var/lib/lsphp/session/lsphp80) in /home/kjv.site/public_html/Discussion-Thread/index.php on line 2 BIBLE DISCUSSION THREAD 205988
Today's verse of the day is one that is very meaningful to me. As believers we are crucified with Christ.
I have been thinking these past few days about what Jesus meant when He told the disciples to take up their cross and follow Him ( Matt 10:38). It is very clear that none of us are have a cross like Jesus'. The "cross" He had was one of suffering and death for the sins of the world. In Gethsemane when forseeing the cross lived out, He was sorrowful unto death. His cross was always to do the will of the Father, and the Father's will was for Jesus to sacrifice His life as a sin offering to expiate our sins and propitiate the wrath of God on sin. This is not a cross we have. So, I was thinking, what is our cross then?
My thoughts are that, like Jesus, our cross is to do the will of the Father in our lives, even unto death. This does not mean that we seek martyrdom, but that persecution and martyrdom may be ahead for some of us. Also, the cross is symbol of death, so today's verse seems to fit in with what Jesus said. As, Paul spoke, it is a dying to self and self-will and living for God and His will.
Then I consider this in light of what Jesus had said about casting all of our burdens upon Him because His yoke is easy and HIs burden is light. Matt 11:29830. So He calls us to take up His yoke upon us and learn from Him. He says that He will give rest to our souls. So I am wondering how this factors into His words about taking up cross and following Him.
I would appreciate reading what others think about this as it has been on my mind this past week and, now, today, the verse speaks of being crucified with Christ.
As I see it , what are our burdens ? They are all the cares of this life , worries , stresses and fears to do with this world and our lives in it . When we talk to God in prayer about our worries etc , we in effect give them to Him . Once we give our worries to God then we should no longer worry about whatever it was that we talked to Him about . We have given it to Him , through Christ our mediator , and we have to trust that our problem will be sorted . It's not our problem any more . We gave it to God . Our burden , though I don't like to use that word , is to do the will of God , as Jesus did , at all times and in all situations even to the point of loosing our life in this world if we are called upon to do so for His sake . That was Jesus's cross and it should be ours also . We will all fail God in some way or rather more likely in many ways , but we have forgiveness is Christ who has willingly laid down his own sinless life in order to cover our sins with his blood . If we are in Christ then the only burden we have is our own sinful inclinations and he has covered us with his own sinless life and willing sacrifice , the least we can do is to try , very hard , not to make his sacrifice for us , you and me , meaningless by not trying our best to do his will in all circumstances
c. Galatians 2:20. "Liberty". Since this whole chapter is on whether justification comes by the Law or by Christ, I feel that this verse is what is on Paul's mind when he writes on his 'crucifixion with Christ'. Certainly, Paul is not claiming a crucifixion akin to Christ's, but I believe that he is stating, that since Jesus' crucifixion was not only for mankind's redemption & for the Law, which could never be kept by man, but was now kept fully by the Lord & nailed to the Cross. Christ's crucifixion confirmed that the workings of the Law (not the Law itself) had died at the Cross, and that faith in the risen Christ alone could secure salvation.
Paul recognized this, as one who was once wholly dependent on the keeping of the Law to be acceptable to God; now, living in the Spirit & not in the flesh, Paul saw that his righteousness before God could never come through the Law but through faith in the Son of God Who died for him. Paul's 'crucifixion' in this sense meant that all that he once held dear in his doctrines & beliefs were now worthless & in opposition to the great merits of Christ's Sacrifice. Paul died to the old Law, even as Jesus' Death brought in a better Law ( Hebrews 7:19,22). Paul's identification with Christ was complete in his spiritual death when only faith in Jesus brought him righteousness.
So to your question: "So I am wondering how this factors into His words about taking up cross and following Him." Paul certainly knew the Truth from those three passages I quoted, as he shed his pharisaical garb & was now clothed with Christ & His Truth. And for us as well: when we fully believe & willingly accept the gracious Yoke of Christ, even though Discipleship might prove very costly & fully identifying with Christ's Death means the destruction of all that we held dear, tethered to Jesus alone, gives us the assurance of His ever-present Grace & Power at all times. If un-yoked to Christ, we're on our own.
Just a few thoughts on what you've shared GiGi. I'm considering the three passages: Matthew 16:24,25; Matthew 11:28-30; Galatians 2:20.
a. Matthew 16:24,25. "Discipleship". Discipleship is costly, more costly than most of us can imagine or have even experienced. To put everything pertaining to life behind one (family, possessions, ambitions, reliance on the material), equates to denying oneself. And to take up one's cross, would be the cumulative effect of that denial/casting aside which one must be prepared to carry for the journey ahead. And this must also include whatever unknowns may lie ahead (of hunger, shelter, loneliness, rejection & persecution). I would think that very few have submitted so fully to the Lord, though the disciples, to whom these words were directly spoken, joyfully apprehended it when "endued with power from on high".
b. Matthew 11:28-30. "Under Grace". Though this passage can accurately be applied to the Lord's gracious Ministry to all, I believe that He is particularly referring to the religious leaders who exacted much much more from the people than what the Law demanded. In Matthew 23:1-4, Jesus spoke of those leaders who correctly brought out Moses' Law, but then He chided them because they added their own "heavy burdens" upon the people, making obedience to the Law wearisome coupled with fear for the penalty if their rules were broken. Therefore, Jesus calls all those that are so burdened & yoked to pharisaical rules to turn to Him, He Whose "yoke" is undergirded with Grace & Truth.
Jesus said this before He was crucified, so do we look at it in a different light? We all have crosses to bear if said in unserious, or true difficulties, losses, and deficiencies in physical or financial health, or harms we have done to others. We can allegorize any difficulty we have as a cross to bear but how shallow would that be?
If we look at the crucifixions done back then, those who were crucified were thieves, murderers, and those who rebelled against the authorities. They were made to carry their beams/crosses to where they would be put to death. They were in complete and utter submission to authority and humiliated and were made examples. Reminds me of Revelation 16:15.
So maybe that is the cross we are supposed to carry, submission, and complete allegiance to Him? Not just one day a week but every day, examining our hearts. Studying the word of God and checking our motives, why we do what we do, and our desires, are they for His will, or for ours?
Well said. The problems that come our way are not the "cross" Jesus is speaking to here. It is to live a life of obedience and submission to God and His agenda, as Jesus did, in my reflection. It may include persecution, rejection, and perhaps even martyrdom. But we have the Holy Spirit as our guarantee of salvation and full redemption.
In Hebrews 12:2-3, Paul says of Jesus, but for the joy set before Him (of resurrected life and the redemption of the saints) He endured the cross, bearing its shame until His work was completed and then, after He resurrected and ascended back to heaven, sat down at the right hand of the Father where He once again openly expresses the glory that He shares with the Father (which He prayed for at the Last Supper). He knew that His days of humbling Himself ( Phil. 2:5-11) would be past and He would be exalted once again.
So, for us, we set before us the joy of heaven and the glorification of our bodies at the resurrection when we endeavor to "take up our cross" daily for the glory of God and the completion of His will being done on earth as it is in heaven. The will of God done in heaven is complete and willing obedience to God as a gift of worship to Him. So, here on earth, we, too, offer the same gift to Him in worship, taking up our cross and following Jesus all the way, every day.
I would like to share a reply posted by a dear brother of ours on this same question.
Jesus said if any man will come after me, and that is the word behind. And here is the decision-making process. When somebody surrenders to Jesus Christ, they are surrendering to come behind Him. Every single person has a calling to come behind Jesus. That's it!
If any man will come behind me, and there are three things, or principles I would like to share with you.
Principle number 1: Let him deny himself.
Now the word deny, ARNEOMAI, means to reject. This is what it means in the Greek. But first I'll tell you what it doesn't mean.
It doesn't mean that you are to deny yourself an ice cream cone after church or after bible study. It means to reject yourself, period!
The next phrase says, "and take up his cross." And some think that means whatever hardships I go through today. But that's not what it means.
You see, according to Romans Chapter 6, when Jesus died on the cross, He died my death. Therefore I have died, and every day my flesh is nailed to the cross and I'm to carry that cross.
And thirdly He says "follow me." Do you see what He's saying here?
He is saying "Follow me," meaning that the position is behind Him.
A good text would be Galatians 2:20, where Paul says I have been crucified in Christ, and the life that I now live, he says I no longer live, but Christ lives in me.
You see, he has died. I don't live any more. I don't do what I want to do because I don't live, I died. Paul says I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. And the life that I now live, I live by the faith of the Son of God who loved me and gave Himself for me.
He just said it all in one verse. Reject yourself!
I have had a conviction for a long time that our struggle every day in life is more against God than it is against Satan. Why? Because our flesh is continually trying to get down off that cross and trying to get away from the struggles of life.
I have been thinking these past few days about what Jesus meant when He told the disciples to take up their cross and follow Him ( Matt 10:38). It is very clear that none of us are have a cross like Jesus'. The "cross" He had was one of suffering and death for the sins of the world. In Gethsemane when forseeing the cross lived out, He was sorrowful unto death. His cross was always to do the will of the Father, and the Father's will was for Jesus to sacrifice His life as a sin offering to expiate our sins and propitiate the wrath of God on sin. This is not a cross we have. So, I was thinking, what is our cross then?
My thoughts are that, like Jesus, our cross is to do the will of the Father in our lives, even unto death. This does not mean that we seek martyrdom, but that persecution and martyrdom may be ahead for some of us. Also, the cross is symbol of death, so today's verse seems to fit in with what Jesus said. As, Paul spoke, it is a dying to self and self-will and living for God and His will.
Then I consider this in light of what Jesus had said about casting all of our burdens upon Him because His yoke is easy and HIs burden is light. Matt 11:29830. So He calls us to take up His yoke upon us and learn from Him. He says that He will give rest to our souls. So I am wondering how this factors into His words about taking up cross and following Him.
I would appreciate reading what others think about this as it has been on my mind this past week and, now, today, the verse speaks of being crucified with Christ.
c. Galatians 2:20. "Liberty". Since this whole chapter is on whether justification comes by the Law or by Christ, I feel that this verse is what is on Paul's mind when he writes on his 'crucifixion with Christ'. Certainly, Paul is not claiming a crucifixion akin to Christ's, but I believe that he is stating, that since Jesus' crucifixion was not only for mankind's redemption & for the Law, which could never be kept by man, but was now kept fully by the Lord & nailed to the Cross. Christ's crucifixion confirmed that the workings of the Law (not the Law itself) had died at the Cross, and that faith in the risen Christ alone could secure salvation.
Paul recognized this, as one who was once wholly dependent on the keeping of the Law to be acceptable to God; now, living in the Spirit & not in the flesh, Paul saw that his righteousness before God could never come through the Law but through faith in the Son of God Who died for him. Paul's 'crucifixion' in this sense meant that all that he once held dear in his doctrines & beliefs were now worthless & in opposition to the great merits of Christ's Sacrifice. Paul died to the old Law, even as Jesus' Death brought in a better Law ( Hebrews 7:19,22). Paul's identification with Christ was complete in his spiritual death when only faith in Jesus brought him righteousness.
So to your question: "So I am wondering how this factors into His words about taking up cross and following Him." Paul certainly knew the Truth from those three passages I quoted, as he shed his pharisaical garb & was now clothed with Christ & His Truth. And for us as well: when we fully believe & willingly accept the gracious Yoke of Christ, even though Discipleship might prove very costly & fully identifying with Christ's Death means the destruction of all that we held dear, tethered to Jesus alone, gives us the assurance of His ever-present Grace & Power at all times. If un-yoked to Christ, we're on our own.
Very well put together!
God bless you.
Just a few thoughts on what you've shared GiGi. I'm considering the three passages: Matthew 16:24,25; Matthew 11:28-30; Galatians 2:20.
a. Matthew 16:24,25. "Discipleship". Discipleship is costly, more costly than most of us can imagine or have even experienced. To put everything pertaining to life behind one (family, possessions, ambitions, reliance on the material), equates to denying oneself. And to take up one's cross, would be the cumulative effect of that denial/casting aside which one must be prepared to carry for the journey ahead. And this must also include whatever unknowns may lie ahead (of hunger, shelter, loneliness, rejection & persecution). I would think that very few have submitted so fully to the Lord, though the disciples, to whom these words were directly spoken, joyfully apprehended it when "endued with power from on high".
b. Matthew 11:28-30. "Under Grace". Though this passage can accurately be applied to the Lord's gracious Ministry to all, I believe that He is particularly referring to the religious leaders who exacted much much more from the people than what the Law demanded. In Matthew 23:1-4, Jesus spoke of those leaders who correctly brought out Moses' Law, but then He chided them because they added their own "heavy burdens" upon the people, making obedience to the Law wearisome coupled with fear for the penalty if their rules were broken. Therefore, Jesus calls all those that are so burdened & yoked to pharisaical rules to turn to Him, He Whose "yoke" is undergirded with Grace & Truth.
Jesus said this before He was crucified, so do we look at it in a different light? We all have crosses to bear if said in unserious, or true difficulties, losses, and deficiencies in physical or financial health, or harms we have done to others. We can allegorize any difficulty we have as a cross to bear but how shallow would that be?
If we look at the crucifixions done back then, those who were crucified were thieves, murderers, and those who rebelled against the authorities. They were made to carry their beams/crosses to where they would be put to death. They were in complete and utter submission to authority and humiliated and were made examples. Reminds me of Revelation 16:15.
So maybe that is the cross we are supposed to carry, submission, and complete allegiance to Him? Not just one day a week but every day, examining our hearts. Studying the word of God and checking our motives, why we do what we do, and our desires, are they for His will, or for ours?
Just my thoughts.
God bless,
RLW
In Hebrews 12:2-3, Paul says of Jesus, but for the joy set before Him (of resurrected life and the redemption of the saints) He endured the cross, bearing its shame until His work was completed and then, after He resurrected and ascended back to heaven, sat down at the right hand of the Father where He once again openly expresses the glory that He shares with the Father (which He prayed for at the Last Supper). He knew that His days of humbling Himself ( Phil. 2:5-11) would be past and He would be exalted once again.
So, for us, we set before us the joy of heaven and the glorification of our bodies at the resurrection when we endeavor to "take up our cross" daily for the glory of God and the completion of His will being done on earth as it is in heaven. The will of God done in heaven is complete and willing obedience to God as a gift of worship to Him. So, here on earth, we, too, offer the same gift to Him in worship, taking up our cross and following Jesus all the way, every day.
I would like to share a reply posted by a dear brother of ours on this same question.
Jesus said if any man will come after me, and that is the word behind. And here is the decision-making process. When somebody surrenders to Jesus Christ, they are surrendering to come behind Him. Every single person has a calling to come behind Jesus. That's it!
If any man will come behind me, and there are three things, or principles I would like to share with you.
Principle number 1: Let him deny himself.
Now the word deny, ARNEOMAI, means to reject. This is what it means in the Greek. But first I'll tell you what it doesn't mean.
It doesn't mean that you are to deny yourself an ice cream cone after church or after bible study. It means to reject yourself, period!
The next phrase says, "and take up his cross." And some think that means whatever hardships I go through today. But that's not what it means.
You see, according to Romans Chapter 6, when Jesus died on the cross, He died my death. Therefore I have died, and every day my flesh is nailed to the cross and I'm to carry that cross.
And thirdly He says "follow me." Do you see what He's saying here?
He is saying "Follow me," meaning that the position is behind Him.
A good text would be Galatians 2:20, where Paul says I have been crucified in Christ, and the life that I now live, he says I no longer live, but Christ lives in me.
You see, he has died. I don't live any more. I don't do what I want to do because I don't live, I died. Paul says I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. And the life that I now live, I live by the faith of the Son of God who loved me and gave Himself for me.
He just said it all in one verse. Reject yourself!
I have had a conviction for a long time that our struggle every day in life is more against God than it is against Satan. Why? Because our flesh is continually trying to get down off that cross and trying to get away from the struggles of life.
God bless
This comment thread is locked. Please enter a new comment below to start a new comment thread.
Note: Comment threads older than 2 months are automatically locked.
Do you have a Bible comment or question?
Posting comments is currently unavailable due to high demand on the server.
Please check back in an hour or more. Thank you for your patience!
Report Comment
Which best represents the problem with the comment?