Bible Discussion Thread

Hello all, prior to yesterday I didn't believe in aliens or life on other planets. I thought God made the universe simply for us to admire in amazement at the vast scale, but figured that God's attention has been on our activities on earth. But I watched someone's interview and it was so detailed that I believe he's telling the truth. It's about a 2 hr interview on YouTube with Joe Rogan and Bob Lazar about Bob seeing, testing, and going in an alien aircraft which presumably originated from a different planet.

But believing in this now has ramifications- if there's intelligent life on other planets, did Jesus go there and die for them too? Is there a different "Jesus" for them? Is there a different Bible? Different heaven? Or, could these be heavenly beings?

Shouid I believe God or man?

What people actually want is to find another ' life' not of God .

Which willl relieve them of their responsibility towards God .

and are not then answerable to God .

They are also confessing when they seek life in outer space that they don't have life. For if they did why would they seek it?

In truth " they who have not the Son have not even seen life " yet .

For outside of Christ we are dead in trespasses and in sin .

I care not how ' detailed' his experiences he says he has . People have had false experiences almost from the beginning .

Religious and otherwise .

An immaculate conception is something that dazzles the imagination but blinds mens mind to the truth .

Well spoken Gerald.

I again agree.

God bless you.

Hi Adam. I took the time (over two sessions) to listen to that interview with three persons participating. I offer my impressions on the interview itself & not the biblical ramifications from it.

I intently focused on Bob Lazar to ascertain where he's coming from with this: i.e. whether factual or delusional. From the beginning, he had a nasty migraine which caused him to pause several times & unable to collect his thoughts, needing help & prompting. There were in total nine craft of various descriptions that the US Govt had unearthed over an unspecified period or location. Bob was strongly chastised for touching a craft during his walk to the one he was to analyse, but was free to move around & touch the appointed one.

When he was asked to come & give his expertise on propulsion systems, he was sworn to secrecy about the whole program. This led to the breakdown of his marriage as his wife assumed he was playing around because of the odd hours that he was called out. Even with the clear orders to not speak about this program, he had the gall to invite people over to the testing area to view the capabilities of the craft in the air on a clear Wednesday evening. And finally, in response to his misdemeanor, the authorities simply removed his personal records without other more important & extensive legal action against him.

I'm sorry, I felt that this man has constructed a story for whatever reasons, as the events I observed from the interview just didn't sit right with me. Maybe, when the day comes that the govt presents this craft to the world & demonstrates its capabilities, more people including myself, could be convinced of it and of Bob.

Hi Adam.

1. In my life I have met people that are such good actors in their everyday life that one would bet their life on them. Can that person who saw aliens prove what he said or is it just words? Also often people say that have seen ghosts, do you believe them?

2. Genesis 2:1-2 "Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them).

And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made."

So God finished creating the heavens and earth and rested on the 7th day. So nothing more was created from there on at least. Even if we assume that God did actually create other people after us on other planets then those people should be "younger" than us, so how come they have already created such a supercivilization that made spaceships that travel millions and millions of light years and finally found earth when at the same time we here on earth have not travelled further away than the moon (man boarded missions)? Not logical is it? Maybe God made other people before us, before creating earth? Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning (of creation) God created the heaven and the earth." So earth was the first thing to be created together with the heavens. Genesis doesn't place anything in between heaven and earth, nothing was created before earth. So nothing was created before earth and after earth was created (together with people) God stopped and rested.

3. You ask "did Jesus go there and die for them too?". So if there are say 1000 (or million) different earths in the universe then Jesus was sacrificed 1000 different times? Not a very good idea to be a God then, is it? It would be very painful (just trying to be funny). I don't think that even God could take that

4. Maybe another Jesus, you ask. There is only one Father, one Jesus and one Spirit, there aren't many.

Well dear brother we will hear a lot of weird things these last days. Don't believe them. My opinion.

Have a blessed day.

Hi Giannis,

All of your arguments/points of view I've shared myself, so these are not new considerations.

I can tell you haven't watched the interview either. Anyone who doesn't watch it will likely make many false assumptions about it.

For example I didn't say the interviewer met aliens. It's in regards to a craft that was discovered. I don't know if you've ever had unexplained phenomenon occur ever in your life. The creation is amazing and no one person fully comprehends the details and complexity of what God has created. The Bible does not say anywhere that life wasn't created outside of earth. It doesn't say one way or the other. But it would be a logical fallacy to assume that by omission then it must not exist, because the Land of Nod, for example, was not explained in how it was created or where the people came from, but was just suddenly briefly mentioned. It's likely a book could be written about that in itself, but instead we have a tiny mention of it.

God is big enough to make whatever He wants in the expanse of the universe. I don't think its right to try to assume God has a limitation and "cant" make others for this or that human reasoning. Your point #3 sounds like speculation about what you think God can or cannot do, for example. It would be extremely weird if we found out there were other beings besides just those on earth, heaven, and hell, and the spiritual dimension. And how that reconciles with the Bible, but who are we to say that God can or can't make more beings besides us. The mention of another "Jesus" savior wasn't serious. If there were beings that were immoral and defied God then they too would need saving, however. God bless.

Pt 1

Hello Adam.

Sorry my intention was not to offend you, I just tried to be funny and hoped that we all enjoy it.

Anyway my opinion still remains that life outside earth doesn't exist. I think God gave an account of the creation in Genesis so that we know exactly what is going on, what happened, how it happened, what exists in heaven and earth, and also gave us an account of all those things that are going to occur in the future till the very end of this creation. His purpose was and is that we know all things so that nobody can persuade us about other things that were and still coming into our ears.

The Bible starts with Genesis (creation) and finishes with the Revelation of how this creation is going to end and new heavens and earth will be created. So let me ask you a question. In The last chapter of Rev God creates a new universe. Assuming that aelien life exists, this means that this universe is going to end for them too, right? So 1. If they have had a Judgement like humans then they have to wait us for the new creation to be made? They are in a somehow waiting place? and 2. In God's new creation as described in Rev no other people than humans are present. So where are they? Where are they located?

Logically speaking now. We know that distances in universe are vast. So If those other people wanted to find us or others then they had to travel for thousands or million years. There is a limit in the speed that any matter can travel in space. This is the velocity of light, which can not be aquired since mass tends to infinity (remember school physics). So assuming that those people somehow aquired the impossible knowledge and technology to reach such speeds, still they have to travel for thousands, millions and billions of years. So sometime in their history they left their houses they went onto a spacecraft and started travelling in the dark universe, they spent their entire lives in this spaceship and then another generation took in charge .

Hello Giannis and Adam. This is an interesting conversation.

I just wish to introduce this thought. Genesis 1 tells somethings about creation, but not all. It does not tell us about God creating the angels and heavenly hosts. It does not tell us how He formed the earth or set it into orbit or spinning. We discovered some of these things in other places in Scripture (that angels exist) and also through science (concerning the rotation and orbit of the sun and relationships of other planets, moons, stars, suns, galaxies, etc.) And we are not told exactly how the end will come, the day nor hour. The Scripture does not lay out a sequential order for the rest of history. Most of the future history is enveloped in apocalyptic language with figurative imagery and allegory.

We can never know all there is to know even about our own earth, humanity, or physical universe, let alone all that the spiritual realm entails. But we can know all that we need to know to love and serve God as believers. Thank God for this. He has revealed this to us in His word, through prophets, and most excellently in the Son, Jesus Christ It is God who has revealed what we know. He wills us to discover things through science and will continue to allow things to be revealed in the way history unfolds until the end.

We are tasked by our Lord and Savior to be wise and to be prepared.

Pt 2

Gigi

In fact God has always adapted Himself to the knowledge of the people he was talking to. He does not try to impress us with his knowledge. So in Bible the earth seems sometimes to be flat or be supported by some kind of support, sun is orbitting earth, oceans have gates and levers, Heaven(space) has 7 levels, sin comes out of our heart (the ancient people believed that all feelings come out literally from the heart, which is just an organ, a blood pump) and many other things which are obviously wrong scientifically. And God accepts all that because His purpose of inspiring people to write down things about Him is not to give some Physics, Chemistry, Maths, etc lectures but He wanted to reveal Himself to us, people, through history using the knowledge mankind had at any period of time.

This is just an opinion (and if somebody else tells me something more realistic I will change my mind). So if aliens existed God would have told us, like He told us of angels and other heavenly beings. He would have prepared us for such a possible meeting with them.

But as I said this is just an opinion.

GBU

Thank you brother. I too, alongwith GiGi, agree to what you've shared here. Scientists have been searching for answers about the unknown worlds & our existence, & have developed theories to which they will cling to until some new discovery is made to bring them to 'greater knowledge'. To accept the Genesis account would be too simplistic & unworthy of their great education & advanced analytical skills & knowledge. But they will never understand what God has determined & what God has put in place. They come with their mental prowess but God simply asks us to accept what He has done & given us to know, in Faith.

Then, can science & faith ever be compatible? There would be varied opinions on this I'm sure, even as one known to me is a religious person (as believing in God's existence), but also an accomplished scientist & mathematician. He tells me that the two (science & faith) can co-exist, even as he has proved. It may to some extent, but where science ends, where the limits of man's knowledge are reached, how many scientists resort to God's Word for the answer and believe Him for what He has told us?

Thanks Giannis, I agree with everything you replied to me. Thanks.

Pt 1

Hello Gigi. Just my opinion. I think that God gave us all the information needed for the material creation, the Genesis. The spiritual creation, a genesis of angels and other heavenly beings is not described in the Bible since it is another world, but about our world we know everything we should know. But God's purpose was not to give us some sort of scientific information. E.g. Genesis is a very very general description of the creation, don't try to find any scientific information there. Genesis is an account of the creation which can be read by modern people but also by primitive people like Abraham and Job. so that they can understand too. So obviously God couldn't just say, "Well, in the begining I provided the energy for the start of the unfolding of space and time, which fractions of milliseconds later was tranformed to photons, which in turn as the universe was cooling down became matter, so planets, suns and galaxies were starting forming...". Can you imagine something like that? No, so God said that He first made the light (the photons which were the first to be produced from that explosion which is called Big Bang{if it is right}). So it seems that God provided the energy for the creation of the universe, according to the laws He designed. It also seems that God caused a procedure for that creation, which in Genesis has the form of "days", that is time intervals of maybe billions of years. It is in vain that many people try to get some sort of scientific information in Genesis breaking down into pieces every single verse. In fact in the whole of Bible God does not give any scientific information at all, that is not the purpose of Bible. God's purpose is to make us have a general idea of the world (hence universe) we are living in, and introduce Himself through Israel's and churche's history, and reveal to us His plan of saving people. He also tells us about how all these things are going to end and a new world will be created for the saved people.

The idea that God somehow merely created the "energy" to form the earth and that the "days of creation" could be long periods of time is contrary to the Bible. The Bible clearly teaches otherwise.

The Bible is the very Word of God and each word in the original Hebrew and Greek is exactly the word that God chose to use. While God does use the werd "day" sometimes to refer to a period of time (ex. The day of salvation), in the creation account God use the phrase "And the evening and the morning were the _____ day" in describing each "day" of creation. That phrase means a single 24 hour day, as we know it. In fact if we understand the time line of history properly from the Bible we conclude that creation occurred about 13,000 years ago.

If you visit the SearchingHisWord web site and go to the literature section you will find a book entitled the "Biblical Calander of History" that works this out in detail based only on what the Bible declares.

Thanks David, I'll have a look at that bible.

Much confusion comes from the bad translations of most if not all modern 'translations '.

Starting with the very first book and the verse first verse .

The KJV has got it right ." In the beginning God created the heaveN and the earth "

It was not heaveN that was in darkness note .it was the " earth" . Gen 2:2

For that heaven "needs no sun or moon for zGod is the light thereof "

Verse 2 is really the recreation of the earth not the primary creation.

The heaveN of verse 1 is where the devil was cast out from and fell like lightening "to the earth who's piwer is now in the air .

For note that the" darkness was upon the face of the deep " of the EARTH.

Most bar two as I know have Genesis 1:1 as heavenS .

As Genesis 1:2 has " heavens" which is correct as it is talking about the heavens of earth . People are misled into thinking that Genesis 1:1 and 2:1 are the same heavenS.

But we have the firmament of earth with waters below and above it . Which God called " heaven" . And you have " He made the stars also and the sun to rule the day and the moon the night what we now call ' space' . But is if you will the second heaven of earth . For it was created from verse 1:2 onwards .

The HeaveN of gen 1:1 is the third heaven where the person Paul knew went to and which it was "not lawful to speak about".

That heaven is the heaven where the angels of God were created where zGod gives no information and which we should not pry .

The invisible heaven and the visible ,the earth .

By such translations we have a Bible I have sen called " The Students Bible" which has Genesis 1:1 as " In the beginning Hod created the SKY and the earth " a reasonable rendition if Genesis 1:1 was HeavenS.

But clearly absurd . For are we not to think " Our Father who are in sky?

Taking heaveN out of the language and all knowledge of it or at best progresively confusion upon confusion .

GB

Pt2

That other generation also spent their lives in the darkness and then another.generation took their place and then another ...until some hundred or thousand generations passed by living in darkness on spaceships looking around and they finally found us. So, so many people from so many generations decided to travel and spent/waste their whole lives in darkness searching for the unknown. And now that found us not only they don't jump up and down in joy for that but they still keep secret? And now that found us, will they go back or stay here? If the latter, why they don't introduce themselves to us and make preparations to live here on earth? But it seems they like to be in the shadow. And what do they do all the time? Watching us? I am trying to show you that all that can not be true.

Do you want to know why I think there is so much talking about aliens lately? Well let's see some things. 1. Do you believe in a pretribulation rapture? I do. Let's assume it is right. Then some time all people will start watching people like bright comets leaving earth and going to the sky. Millions of people throughout the whole world. So what do you think the explanation could be? People going suddenly to space? What that might be other that aliens somehow took them. There can't be any other exlpanation. 2. Lets go to the final fight of Armageddon. Jesus with his angels and the saints are coming down to earth. Antichrist gathers His army (this means that Jesus doesn't come momentarily, antichrist has time to gather armies). What do you think antichrist will tell his people. Do you think he is going to tell them that it is God and His saints? In such case nobody would go, nobody dares fighting God. They see some armies coming from the skies. What else than aliens could be. And people will gather to fight Jesus thinking that they would protect their planet from aliens and ... we know the end. So this thing with aliens has started being cooked lately for obvious purposes

Pt3

Also this stands as a "scientific" truth that God doesn't exist and life has been created randomly dispersed in the whole universe. Something like Darwin's fairy tales.

You said they found a spacecraft. Who did? If they are a goverment, these things are kept as top secret. How did that person managed to get away from them? If that was a real incident all news reports all over the world the next morning would be telling about that, but nobody seems to know anyhting about that

Now finally, lets go back to what you said about Jesus sacrificing Himself for them too (an imag. senario). Jesus is God but suffered like a man. He could have used His divine powers and stayed on the cross comfortably like we sit on our coach, but He didn't do that. He suffered a horrible death. Do you thing He could do that again and again and again (who knows how many times)? You may argue His is God, yes but He suffered exaxtly like me and you would do. An experience of mine. Once I was thinking "OK Jesus suffered for 6 hours, well he felt pain but at the end it was just 6 hours, surely I could do it, it is only 6 hours, be a bit patient, 6 hours it is, it will pass. Stupid thoughts. One morning I got up feelling a horrible pain, went to a hospital, it was a stone in the Kidney, it produces a continuous horrible pain. Doctors told me that they weren't going to give me painkillers for 2 hours until some tests were done. I was going crazy, I couldn't stand the pain, I was thinking of jumping from the 2nd floor to end the pain. Every single second, minute was unbearable, time was moving very slow, every minute seemed to be like a centuary. There was no way I could stand that for 2 hours. It was a stone in the Kidney, not a cross. I can not imagine how horribly Jesus felt the pain in His whole body. 6 Hours, and He didnt say a word, never complained. How many times do you think God intented to do that again and again? If I were a God myself i would give it a second thought to repeat it.

GBU

Hi Giannis,

That's ok if you perceive the idea of God creating other intelligent life as being inconsistent with Genesis. It does seem from Genesis that its focused on just earth and heavens. Whether the heavens means the entire universe (everything God created) I don't know. So, I understand your viewpoint because I felt the same way. I don't have the same stumbling block as what you're presenting though in regards to multiple saviors and how that seems improbable. It's a strange idea indeed. But if there's evidence of other life it no longer seems as improbable.

There already have been alien-type creatures on earth before- remember the Giants the Bible talks about. Some call them nephilim Genesis 6:4. A possible hybrid of either demons or angels coming to earth and reproducing. They weren't 100% human, and one could say they're in a sense from another world and basically an alien-being to us. So, did Jesus die for them too? Did Jesus die for angels already in heaven?

Not sure if you're aware of the large unexplained crop circles in south America or not. It would be incorrect to say there's no evidence of such phenomenon.

If there's evidence that God created more intelligent life besides human beings then I can accept and don't feel threatened by that- I don't see that changing my Christian walk or values. I think humans are only allowed to see and comprehend a very narrow sliver of God and His creation. Colossians 2:2-3. There is a lot more than we understand. So, in heaven I think we'll be blown away to see a fuller view of His power and glory and what He's done. God bless.

A little leven spoils the whole lump .

Hello Adam

About the giants and the Nephillim described in the Bible my thouhts are:

1. They can not be hybrids of angels or demons. Those are spiritual creatures, they can not mate with material creatures. We don't have the same nature, the same DNA,etc,etc. Besides that angels have not got a sex, male or female, there is no need for that. They don't reproduce.

2. They can not possibly be hybrids of humans and aliens. Even if we accept that aliens do exist, what makes you think that they can mate with humans and have children with them? Are they supposed to have the same DNA, are they supposed to be exactly like us and have the same reproductory organs? OK let's assume you are right about it. Where is any evidence about them? Haven't they left anything to be discovered by archeology? An iphone. a tablet, something ... (trying to be funy)? Surely they would have left some things for us to discover them later, but nothing of an advanced technology has ever been found. And when they came on earth and had children with humans, have they also left their advanced life and adopted the primitive style of life they found on earth? So they got rid of their weapons, their medicine, their transportation means and everything else they had and lived like primitive people? I think the opposite should had happened, they should had communicated their advanced knowledge to the earthians to help them with their medicine, with anything they had to make our lives easier. That is the normal thing to do, not the opposite.

Ancient people were clever. Do not admire about those findings like the crop circles you said. The ancients have built amazing massive structures like the pyramids with just levers and pulleys, mostly with wooden tools (only copper was available at that time and copper is a very soft metal). In the pre-Columbian Americas the Indians also constructed amazing pyramids when the use of metals was not known at all to them. So do not wonder about these constructions.

GBU

Hello Giannis,

I believe the Bible says that God swept away the ancient world in the flood. It seems from what I have read that the surface of the earth was re-shaped. I think that, rather than being a very primitive society, that the ancient world was very advanced. Adam and Eve would have been the pinnacle of human intelligence and their progeny would also be genetically intelligent, creative and able to, in just 1600 years or so to develop their world in a very advanced way. Considering that the average life span of these first generation was about 900 years, each person would have 10 times more time than any of us to develop their ideas and the collective knowledge shared among those of the same generation and passed on to the next would have been very incredibly amazing. They were smeltering metal just a few generations from Adam (See Tubal-Cain) and building cities early on.

As to the Nephilim, I just don't think we really know how they were generated. As the term "sons of god" could denote angels or believing humans. None of these Nephilim survived the flood to make a history for themselves. So, there is so much we do not know about the time before the flood. God wanted it to be that way, for good reason. But there must have been something very extraordinary about them, as the text seems to say.

After the flood, Noah and his sons had to start from scratch again, even more so than Adam and Eve since the surface of the earth was so ruined by the flood. It was the generations after Noah that were so primitive. These first generations of Noah had to start from scratch, even more so than Adam and Eve, because the surface of the earth was in ruins after the flood and because all of the infrastructure of the pre-flood earth was gone. Noah and his sons certainly would have had skills learned from their pre-flood years, but not the materials to use for those skills yet, nor was there the man-power of beast-power to use for accomplishing grand designs.

It is interesting that when Europeans believed the world was flat their lives ere ,I tied to what they could see ,for fear of falling off the edge of the world ,due in part if not the main to false religion that ruled and reigned .

But once it was understood that the world was round we scattered to the four corners of the world and discovered new lands .

But strangely where ever man could live we found man already there .

Some 'civilised' some living ' primitive' some cannibals.

Some living in the Stone Age . Others Chinese for example f great inventions and complex ,civilisation' .

There are still some living in the Stone Age ,but no less civilised than others .

The Tower of Babel was man's first geographical dispersal . And we saw the results of it ;of man without God .or the true light .

The gospel has now gone to " the uttermost parts of the earth".

And the "time of the gentiles "is drawing near .

And the Lord is nigh at the door and we will soon hear the cry " the bridegroom comes!"

Adam, I agree that God can and may have created life elsewhere in this vast universe. He can do whatever He wishes and has done so. I think we may be quite surprised at the diversity of living beings we will encounter in heaven or who may populate hell along with unsaved humans.

Please believe me my questions were not meant to be condescending . People who truly believe what they say , wether they are talking about their faith or if they have mental health problems and are suffering delusions or , for that matter scientists , can be extremely convincing people . I never look at you tube but I have friends and family who do , they listen to all kinds of conspiracy theories etc , it makes my brain ache when I here some of the things they waffle on about . Never , in the history of humanity , have we had the potential to know so much about what is going on in this world because of technology , and never has their been so much access to all kinds of ideologies and theories , so much information and even more misinformation . I don't believe that I can be sure about anything I see or hear through the media . It's all a big distraction , keeping us thinking about all kinds of rubbish , as long as we are distracted from...the Truth . Misinformation is a tool of the deceiver . The only Truth is in the Bible . What God has chosen to do , in the past , present or in the future , with His other planets is up to Him . He has given us enough to be getting on with in this life I think . All the time that people spend thinking about theories and conspiracies and ideologies is time not spent thinking about the only , eternal and wonderful Truth of the Holy One of Israel and His Precious Son Jesus Christ the Righteous . Have you not read what Paul says about the Greeks in the book of Acts ? Acts chapter 17 verse 21 . People don't change much . I shall stick to the only thing I know that is true and faithful and eternal , unchanging , God , who's love and mercy and righteousness I can rely on 100 per cent . I'm sorry if I offended you , I was genuinely worried that you would get side tracked and might wander of the straight and narrow path .

Hi Adam.

I would have to be honest and say Who knows?

I couldn't say one way or another. Scripture doesn't give us any info. We do know God wasn't sitting around throughout eternity to make man a few thousand years ago.

But I would say ALL that was created was created by the Lord.

Colossians 1:16-17. For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

GB.

Excuse me please , I have such love for you as my brother in Christ . May I ask you a couple of questions ? I don't want you to answer me , please just think about my questions and answer them for yourself in your own mind . Question number one : have you ever watched a really good actor in a really good film ? Question number two : have you ever met a person who has mental health problems and is suffering from delusions ? Any finally , if you met someone who was a devout muslim and who knew the quran very well and they told you all about it , would you believe them and become a muslim ? That last question could apply to someone of any religion . Please ponder these thoughts carefully . I hope with all my heart that I have not offended you .

Hello Sammi, you didn't watch the interview, did you? I cannot endorse it, because it unfortunately contains some profanity, but that evidence is the basis of this topic. The Bible doesn't indicate one way or the other about other life, so to carry a bias against evidence God may have provided doesn't seem to be an honest or honorable position to take. I previously was not aware of any evidence so I did not believe it, but now I'm aware of evidence. In the Bible days people carried a bias- denying the evidence in front of their eyes, such as who Jesus was and about His miracles.

I hope your questions weren't intended to be condescending- God knows your heart.