Bible Discussion Thread

so since Christmas is a pagan holiday, its man made. why when i search the topic upon this site it says verse Matthew 1:18-1:25 and talks about the birth of Jesus. I'm just curious

Hello Mara 444,

I have read that Zechariah, John the Baptists' father) was serving his round for temple service as the priest in the month of Sivan (June-July) when John was conceived, making his birth sometime in the month of Nissan (March). Since John's mother, Elizabeth was six months pregnant when Mary conceived Jesus, Jesus would have been born in the month of Tishri (September) perhaps around Rosh Hoshannah or Yom Kippur. Also Jesus was born while King Herod was still alive. Herod died on about 4 B.C. So, since he decreed that all male Jewish babies 2 years or younger would be killed, it is likely that Jesus was born between 6 and 4 B.C.

One further comment in light of the beginning of what I said in the previous post. The stories of antiquity still have an origin; such as those of gods and giants. The O.T. makes it clear that there were indeed various tribes of Nephilim; Zamzumites and a bunch of other giants that were of the offspring of demons and man as mentioned in Genesis 6. Satan is very real and demons have taken many aspects of truth as often found in original languages and cultures and their stories of an original true Creator God which changed later on to that of varying mythologies. There is also a similar flood story to scripture worldwide to Noah as well.

These things have to be examined along with other things; I pray that you look long and hard to the historicity of the Bible before making any hasty conclusions to disregard it. There are many good resources out there such as the old book Evidence that demands a verdict and the sequel from Josh McDowell and many other good apologetic books along with recent archaeological discoveries.

Do your homework.

Agape; Rich P.

i was jus curious.. and im not a "diehard atheist" i wouldn't be on a kjv bible website if i was. but if u may what month was jesus born or even the date, since you know everything.

I don't know much; just a sinner saved by grace. The Bible verses usually I am able to find on the search engine which I am aware exist but not just where in the Bible.

No exact answer; there in regard to your question. Scholars say that the sheep grazing as mentioned in the scripture (not sure which Gospel) indicate that it is probably more likely in the early spring than December. Since December 21 to 23 is the "winter solstice" the pagans would often celebrate that event; and since the Catholic church in particular likes to celebrate events so that there is some familiarity to the time we likely ended up with December 25. Another example is Easter whose name came from "Ishtar" which was borrowing directly from pagan tradition with the fertility symbols related to the egg. THAT season corresponds according to scripture as Passover; and many think it was in reality Wednesday evening the Lord was crucified (for 3 FULL days and nights that He was physically dead).

Anyway; the bigger issue here is the YEAR. AD 0 BTW doesn't exist; we go from BC 1 to AD 1. There were said to be 490 years ( Daniel 9:25) from the building of the Temple was announced by Cyrus until the coming of the Messiah. A lot depends exactly what year THAT was on. Also there are those convinced that there had to be a planetary conjunction to appear as the star mentioned; although it would seem it was a distinctly supernatural event (as well as the sun AND full moon darkening at the same time which BTW there is historical record around the world of such an event). There was also the specific rulers in Jerusalem; etc.; all told many think it was closer to AD 30 when the crucifixion occurred making the actual fulfillment of His public ministry starting in 27 AD.

Hope that is helpful. At any rate I know better than trying to do only what the Lord can do in a battle of intellectual wits. Nonetheless we need to be prepared to have an answer for the hope in us ( 1 Peter 3:1-5).

The preverbal question that comes up is what comes first...in this case is it Christmas or pagan stories of a similar nature? If you are already determined to be a diehard atheist; then I suppose you could automatically designate the story of the birth of Christ (which you can see is in those verses as well as the start of other Gospels) as a late version of say Semiramis or the countless mother and child mythologies involving a virgin child; or offspring from the "gods"; etc.

The genealogical descendants as you will observe are listed in Matthew from Joseph; but in Luke they are from Mary's lineage.

One point that is brought out in Matthew is the census; clearly the lineage of each family was well known in the list of descendants. There are some complexities involved which on a surface level may appear to be discrepancies. Nonetheless; the whole history of the O.T. had to have descendants for the Messiah to come through certain individuals. David was promised according to Mark 12:36 (referring to an O.T. scripture) that Messiah would be in his lineage.

The whole Christian faith hinges on God coming in the form of a man who could live as we did but without sin; and becoming the final atoning sacrifice. The O.T. sacrifices have been gone for nearly 2000 years; the occurrence of the curtain tearing in the Temple happened when Christ died. He had to overcome death and was Resurrected as well; all prophesied events. (See Luke 23:44-45). The virgin birth was promised in Isaiah 7:14. Christ had to not be born with the sin nature which all sons of Adam had (so wasn't from natural human seed). He had to take on our sins as the sacrificial lamb.

He had to be God (as God the Son and part of the eternal Godhead demonstrated as early as the Book of Genesis where God created man in "our image" ( Genesis 1:26). Only God can forgive; and Christ stating that He was the "I am" ( John 8:58) showed He was truly God as only God can forgive sins.