Bible Discussion Thread

Hi Dante, Thank you for posing some very good queries on this subject.

I don't think that Adam and Eve ate from the tree of life. Why, we do not know. Maybe it was hard to get to or did not seem attractive or had some other barrier.

I do think that God knew all that would happen in the garden before He even created anything as He is omniscient and nothing is hidden from Him. He does not learn anything new nor does He find out things as time passes. He knows all that will ever be and every possibility that could ever be. So, nothing surprises Him. In this all-knowingness, God created everything with knowledge of all that would be and happen, all of the thoughts and actions of mankind since before He created. He knew every sin we would commit, every motivation, every prayer we would speak to Him, every tear that we would shed, every act of love we would do for Him and others, every disaster and cataclysmic event He would bring into history. Awesome to think about, really.

If God learned new knowledge that He did not always know then this would indicate a change in Him, and the Scriptures clearly say that he does not change ever. He can never increase in any of His attributes or have diminish in any of them. He cannot do anything that He had not already knew He would do. This immutability means that He is infinitely complete and perfect in every way. He cannot get any better than what He always is. He cannot add any new aspect to His character nor subtract any aspect of His character because His nature is full and He is in need of nothing else. He is self-existing and self-sufficient and self-satisfied in Himself at all times and from eternity to eternity.

Dante, I say these things because when I think about them, I stand in awe of Him and humbly worship Him. i once again recall his excellencies and find His infinite perfection very comforting knowing that He will always be whom he will be, as YHWH means.

Gigi, take the time to ponder Exodus 32 and compare it to what you have written in this thread. I agree that God's character is the same yesterday, today and forever. That He knows the hearts of man. He knows how things end up, but when it comes to the extreme, sinful "actions of man" it comes to me that it surprises him how evil man can become. It also seemed like he didn't expect Nineveh to repent (an extreme action), otherwise he would have told Jonah that I am just going to tell them I will destroy them and they will repent and I won't have to do it. It seems like He didn't expect Ahab to repent (an extreme action), so He changed the judgement against him so it would not occur in Ahab's lifetime. God's anger in Exodus 32 was so great that Moses had to remind him of His covenant with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. In the account of Sodom and Gomorrah the Lord said "I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know." Just some things to ponder.

Dear Hammer, I think it is time we end this line of conversation on this thread because we will not come to a good resolve.

Good morning Gigi! I was referencing your statement "He does not learn anything new nor does He find out things as time passes. He knows all that will ever be and every possibility that could ever be. So, nothing surprises Him." As I read the Bible it seems to me that there are "actions of man" that do surprise him or that he never thought of before. I don't know any other way to interpret "neither came it into my mind". Also, in Noah's time God seemed surprised "that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually." I take it that when he repented he meant regretted, because he destroyed man whom he created. If he knew the extent of how wicked man would get he would have been "grieved" beforehand.

Hello Hammer 63

In these passages Scripture speaks of God not changing His mind or changing.

Numbers 23:19 1Sam. 15:29. Ps. 110:4 Mal. 3:6

In these passages Scripture speaks of God's knowledge of man's hearts, thoughts, actions, and history.

Mt. 12:25 John 2:24 1 Kings 8:39 Ps. 139:1 Ps. 94;!0 Is. 40:14 Is.46:10 1 Sam. 2:3 Mt. 6:8 Lk. 16:13

I firmly believe that Scripture states unequivocally that God is the same, today, yesterday, and forever (Heb, 13:8; 1:12; Ps. 102:27). This means that He never changes in any way. Scripture also says that He has all wisdom and knowledge that is to be known. I believe that God is omniscient (all-knowing) without every gaining knowledge or forgetting anything. If he could gain or lose knowledge, then this would indicate a change in Him, but the Scriptures say that He never changes.

When the Scriptures elsewhere speak of God repenting, they are talking about His grieving in real time (from man's perspective). But in eternity, God always has known of how wicked mankind would become and that He always will be grieved by it. The Scriptures do not say that God is surprised by any situation, decision, nor actions of mankind. We, in our limitedness and fallenness can speculate that He must be taken by surprise because we would be.

Hammer, I am glad that you responded to me. I have given you my response and I know that my belief aligns with Scripture and the consistent teaching of the church over the centuries. You are free to think your own way, but I always try to remember when something in Scriptures perplexes me that "there is a way that seems right to a man ( Pr. 14:12) but its end is the way of death." So, therefore, I study to know the God and His nature more thoroughly so that I can hold my perplexing thoughts up to what I know is true of God.

Gigi, curious how you interpret these verses. Jeremiah 19:5 "They have built also the high places of Baal, to burn their sons with fire for burnt offerings unto Baal, which I commanded not, nor spake it, neither came it into my mind:" Jeremiah 32:35 "And they built the high places of Baal, which are in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire unto Molech; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin." Genesis 6:6 "And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart."

Hello Hammer, I guess by your post you are inquiring of me pertaining to what I said about the unchangeable, all-knowing nature of God. Therefore, using the words "not know" does not mean that God learned something new, but that these practices are not holy or pure worship.

The Jeremiah passages reflect the truth that God cannot conceive evil in His Being. He is altogether righteous, holy, and pure. Therefore, He would not institute worship practices that are evil.

As far as the Genesis passage, I don't think the word repented in this passage reflects a change in God's thinking about creating humans. I believe that this passage shows how the rampant and pervasive evil produced by mankind was very grievous to God and that it grieved Him to bring judgment upon mankind with the flood.