Bible Discussion Thread

Predestination part 2 (in regard to eternal life or death specifically).

If we look into the whole issue of God predestining some for heaven and others for hell; we often refer to the term "double predestination". We need to keep in mind the verses such as hell was created for the Devil and his angels ( Matt. 25:41) and that God is not a respecter of men ( Romans 2:11 etc) as well as the fact that He takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked. ( Ezekiel 18:23). As I stated recently; there IS rejoicing among the Godhead as well as God's people when the wicked are judged; as the earth is purged from corruption.

In regard then to the destruction of the wicked; it is because of sin that is not sought to be forgiven and that through the METHOD God has given; namely through the substitutionary atonement of the Son. Many remain stuck on that point as those of the true "Grace Gospel" expose when they still think they have some merit on righteousness of their own. Only the 100 percent wicked need a 100 percent Savior; it is an all or nothing proposition. We need to realize that Satan is the father of all those who are outside the faith. ( John 8:44). Someone may accept their own sin but try telling them that fact; or worse that is the fate of family members who are or were not believers and have passed. This is a serious concern among those who remember their relatives as they were; and if they saw them in torment it would hardly give them a nostalgic feeling. Realizing that apart from Christ we are only thinking of ourselves ultimately as our motivation isn't fun. Also realizing that putting SELF on the throne is exactly what Satan does to lureus as he himself has that mindset then we are quite humbled. These aren't fun things to ponder but it certainly does get our mind off all the chaos in this world; important as some issues are compared to the eternal fate of sinners.

Richard, You said: Only 100% wicked people need a Savior 100%."

I would say, only when we realize that we are corrupted by sin through and through. There is no part of us that sin has not corrupted us, therefore there is not part of us that is acceptable in God's sight (pre-salvation). This does not mean unbelievers cannot do good to other humans, but it means that nothing we do that helps others, or is loving to others, or otherwise is "good" is only good according to man's standards, not according to God's (which is perfection in all manner of ways and in our whole person).

We are not perfect in our humanness. We deserve God's justice that condemns us for our sinfulness. There isn't anything about any human that would merit God's love let alone salvation from sin. But He loves us, especially through planning to save us and doing so in His Son, who became flesh to bring forgiveness of sin and eternal life.

God's love for humans, and all that He created comes from a source that none of us possess. He alone loves truly, purely, sacrificially, and wholly. His love is so great that He was willing to suffer the death of His eternal son made flesh with all of our sin upon Jesus and all of His wrath against our sin poured out onto Jesus unto death. And Jesus has the same love for us as the Father, being willing to be the sacrifice for our sins, suffering the humiliation of leaving His place of glory with the Father to be contained in human nature and flesh. And the Holy Spirit has the same love for us as the Father and the Son, though all-powerful, He did not interfere in the plan of redemption to not let Jesus go to the cross. No one loves like this. But God is love. We are not. We must learn to love like Him once we are converted. We learn this from the Holy spirit dwelling in us, even though we still sin.

So, I would say, only a Savior who could save mankind 100% eternally will take away our all of our 100% wickedness 100% of the time for those who believe.