Bible Discussion Thread

I think John 8:44 is talking about Cain the first murderer. But he is talking to Kenites who are thr bloodline of Cain. Cain is the son of Satan, Abel son of Adam.

Hello JRR

I do not think that Jesus was saying that these Jews were the offspring of Cain, as all of Cain's offspring were killed in the flood.

Jesus was saying that these Jews were of satan because of their evil ways, not because of a bloodline. The account in Genesis does not say that Cain was fathered by satan, but that Adam was Cain and Abel's father. But Cain, chose to follow the temptations satan put before him, leading him to kill Abel. It is through our voluntary sin that we become aligned with satan. He willfully chose to rebel against God. Anyone who willfully chooses to follow the evil enticements presented to one by satan becomes a slave to him. But Scriptures does not say anywhere that satan actually physically beget any human.

Did Enoch not die in the flood? No. He is with the Father.

If Cain's descendents died in the flood, why are the Kenites talked about after the flood? Numbers 24:21-22 further showing that Kenites came from Cain and survived the flood.

The sons of Anak the Anakin also survived the flood. They were the giants in Genesis 6:4 & Numbers 13:33.

It is written that Noah brought on the ark two of ALL unclean flesh and seven pairs of clean flesh. Then he was to bring the animals,birds and insects.

The animals are mentioned AFTER all flesh.

Why do they the Kenites walk the earth now? They claim to be Jews but are not. Name stealers.

JRR God created man on the sixth day. Gen.1:27,28,31, 27. So God (created) man in his own image, in the image of God (created) he him; male and female (created) he them. 28. And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. 31. And God saw every thing that he had made, and behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the ((sixth day)). (God created the male and female on the sixth day) Gen.2:1-2, 1. Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the hosts of them. 2. And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made: and he rested on the seventh day from all the work which he had made. (God rested on the seventh day, this is verse 1 and 2 of Gen. Ch.2. Here is verse 5 from this same Ch. 2.) Gen. 2:5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, ((and there was not a man to till the ground)). (And there was not a man to till the ground, this is AFTER God ((created)) male and female on the sixth day, and AFTER God rested on the seventh day.) Gen. 2:7 And the LORD God ((formed)) man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. (God ((formed)) Adam from the dust of the ground AFTER He ((created)) male and female on the sixth day, and AFTER He rested on the seventh day. The sixth day male and female He ((created)) was all the different races on the earth. The man He ((formed)) from the dust of the ground was the bloodline that Jesus Christ would come through! Gen.7:16 And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the LORD shut him in. He took two flesh of all races!!

Yes, I understand it to be more than just eight people on the Ark. It almost would have to be because just Eight people could not take care of that many animals 24/7. Plus flesh is not animals or insects. Plus that would make sense for there to be the descendent of Cain, the Kenites after the flood. That says they did not die in the flood

Hello what about 1st Peter chapter 3 verse 20 ?

Who was the first murderer Satan or Cain?

I do not remember reading anywhere that Satan murdered anyone but Cain murdered his brother Abel.and was said to be the first murderer. So if he was not talking about Cain the first murderer who is he talking about?

Gen. 7:16 And they that went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the LORD shut him in. (flesh) #1320: Hebrew: body, person, (by euphem.) the pudenda of a man:- body, (fat,lean) flesh (-ed) (man-) kind,+ nakedness, self, skin. 2 went in from all races.

Flesh. Man not animal?

JRR That is the meaning of the word flesh is in the original language, which is Hebrew.

Genesis 7:7: "And Noah went in, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons' wives with him, into the ark, because of the waters of the flood."

1 Peter 3:20: "Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, EIGHT SOULS were saved by water."

If only eight souls were saved when YAHWEH flood the earth then how did the Nephilim come about to walk the earth again after the flood? They are talked about before and after the flood.

Hi JRR.

I agree with Brother Chris, it's hard to come up with any scripture that is conclusive.

However I would like to present a theory

I Genesis 6:9 it says;

These are the generations of Noah: NOAH WAS A JUST MAN AND "PERFECT IN HIS GENERATIONS", and Noah walked with God.

This came right before verses 4-5 when he said vs 4-"There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when THE SONS OF GOD CAME IN UNTO THE DAUGHTERS OF MEN, ( AND THEY BARE CHILDREN TO THEM ), the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

( Verse 4 the women bare children to the Giants, "No particular line as shown in Genesis6:2." This includes daughters of Seth. )



LOOK AT VERSE 5 AT WHAT SEEMS TO BE THE OUTCOME.

vs 5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

Vs 6. And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

There is two things to note about Noah in these next 3 verses,

Why was he chosen? Because he was sinless? I don't think so, Vs 8 says Noah found "GRACE" in the eyes of the LORD. "GRACE is unmerited favor." Vs 9 says he was a just man. "We're justified by faith"

Genesis 6:7-9.

I believe Noah was justified the same way Abel was. "By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain," Hebrews 11:4.

So that brings us to a phrase in verse 9. Noah was "PERFECT IN HIS GENERATIONS"

If you read Genesis 6:2-11 on through it seems as though Man had 2 issues. They didn't find grace in the Lords eyes because of lack of faith and there were those whos Genealogy was contaminated. "Perhaps by the Son's of God.

We don't know if Shem, Ham, and Japheth wives were or not. Nor do we know about Noah's wife.

Just a thought.

God bless.

Hi JRR. That of course, is a good question, to which no conclusive reply can be given; just as many other aspects of the Bible that provide no certain understanding because of lack of information.

As examples, we know what Genesis 6:4 and Numbers 13:33 tell us. The pre-flood nephilim are described as the product of the union of the sons of God with the daughters of men. We can choose to read this as 'every offspring that they had, produced giant-like men (& women)'. Could they also have produced more 'normal' sized offspring? We're not told - only an assumption & probably not a far-fetched one at that.

Then we see nephilim appear post-flood. We can't deny this reality because the Word gives it to us, so there must be an answer. But whatever the correct answer, it would be wrong to throw out or amend Scriptures such as Genesis 7:7 & 1 Peter 3:20 which tell us that only eight souls (of human-kind) were saved, to the destruction of all other humans. Therefore, based on this Truth, we could come up with opinions, such as, could the sons of God (maybe seen as the line of Shem, and previously, written of Seth), also inter-mixed with the daughters of men (maybe products of Ham & Japheth, & previously, of Cain), & produced giant offspring? So, the mention of giants anywhere in the Bible should not denote that giants were evil people because of their size, but that is how they grew, maybe arising from aberrations (read, birth defect), as the descendants of their first fathers grew in number & inter-mixed. Obviously, not every birth produced giants, but there were many in those days, as there are even some today.

So really, we are not given definitive answers, & even what I've given as a possibility, remains only that. But I think we can be certain, if the Bible says that all humans were destroyed because of their gross sins, then we must accept that as fact. As well, the Anakim were not judged as the old world was - giantism was never a sin.

I do not recall reading anywhere in scripture that the giants were actually sinful people. I was just saying that not all died in flood because they were on earth before and after the flood . The Nephilim were the children of the relations between fallen angels and the daughters of men.

Genesis 7 I understand it to say two of all flesh( flesh meaning human/man/races) then it says the birds and insects.

I suppose, JRR, is how one understands Genesis 7:7,8,9,15. In verse 9, the inference is clearly to the animals that went into the Ark, even though of clean beasts, seven were taken (the question could be asked, 'why not six, why the odd number?'). Then in verse 15, we get the "unto Noah...two and two of all flesh" again. And those animals are again mentioned in the preceding verse. So were there other humans included with those animals? If so, shouldn't they be mentioned as well (maybe not by tribes or clans, but as homo sapiens), being more important than those in the 'animal' category? And if 1 Peter 3:20 tells us that "eight souls were saved by water", should we assume that if only humans were referred to, then why not these 'other' humans as well?

If some humans were not affected by the Flood & lived on, then it would be hard to accept that given Genesis 7:19 & the evidence of extinct sea life found at higher elevations. It seems that no part of the dry Earth was spared by this worldwide flood.

In my understanding, there were no other humans on board the Ark, apart from those mentioned. And all humans therefrom descended from Noah's sons. When giants appeared after that time, then there would be a reason for that, maybe a genetic aberration.

Maybe so. But not just the giants are talked about after the flood so are the Kenites who are the descendents of Cain.

To me, "flesh" means humans, people, man etc .Not creature, animals, insects etc. This is why it sounds to me like there was more then Noah and his son's . Maybe they were the only eight souls saved per sa. I also can not see only eight people taking care of that many animals 24/7. That is a lot of work for only eight people. The animals did eat, Noah ate as well, so someone had to clean messes 24/7 otherwise the ark would have caught fire from the gas build up and the flame for lights. I can't see just eight people taking care of themselves,the animals and able to rest. I believe in scripture, I have always thought it to be just Noah s family until recently something just clicked about the flesh and thinking about the size of ark and all the animals to be care for by just eight people. I've worked at a kennel before with about 120 dogs and a few cats with 4 of us working and we could hardly stay up so I can't imagine.

Yes JRR, the word 'flesh' can be taken to apply to only mankind; but the Bible does speak of 'other' flesh. As the Apostle Paul referred to this in 1 Corinthians 15:38,39: "But God giveth it (i.e. the seed by God that contains the necessary constituents to form a particular organism), (gives it) a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body. All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds." So, I believe that Genesis 6:18-20, speaks of the various categories of 'flesh' & not to the many tribes & families that exist as human beings.

And back to the Kenite origins. I have seen opinions that indicate that the Kenites descended from Cain, hence not all flesh were destroyed by the flood. And yet, we get an example in Judges 1:16 indicating that Jethro, Moses' father-in-law, was a Kenite. And then in Numbers 10:29, Jethro is referred to as Raguel (also called 'Reuel' in Exodus 2:18), as a Midianite. What would you make of this? We know that it is the same man, Jethro, that is referred to, but can we assume a connection between the two families (Kenites & Midianites)? If there is and we go back to the immediate descendants of Noah's sons, we can follow the descendency from Shem through to Terah to Abram to Midian (through Keturah): Genesis 10:21-31; Genesis 11:10-32; Genesis 25:1-4 (here, we see Midian born to Abraham through Keturah, of whom (Midian), Jethro is connected to. If Jethro is also recorded as being a Kenite, there must be another family line coming through Midian (maybe through a daughter, not mentioned (only sons) in Genesis 25:4).

So, it appears that we must be open to the possibility that the Kenites were not from Cain (as much as a similarity exists in those names), but could have come through the descendants of Shem & the Abraham.

JRR:

Your trying to limit God by saying eight people can not feed and keep the ark clean.

Your right eight people can't, but God can, a whole army couldn't bring down the walls of Jericho, but God can, even by the blast of a trumpet. One man can't kill 1000 men with the jaw bone of an ass, but God's spirit upon that man can, the man becomes the instrument in God's hand.

Since the ark is symbolic of Christ, and man has to be in Christ to be saved, as the 8 were in the ark, I believe these 8 were the only men and women in the ark; but, that being said, there is all kind of symbolism that infers the fowls of the air and the beast of the field are symbolic of man.

God Bless You!

1 Jn.3:12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brothers righteous.