King James Bible
King James Version (KJV)
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It is a good thing that the publishers have revised the text to align more with the KJV and also the NSAB and RSV.
But it would definitely take a whole lot of work to do a complete comparison. I am somewhat new to the KJV as I came on this site November of 2021 specifically to read the KJV. I also was able to purchase a KJV from a Goodwill store. So now I have it to have in hand, also. So, I am glad to be here and to study from the KJV.
God always leads us in the best way.
If this is you it sounds like you're accusing a translation of leaving words out by your use of "wonder why they would leave out the words" but the verse previously mentioned in Psalms doesn't have that phrase in any translation.
I see no evidence of any words being left out and it seems you avoided what your evidence is. You said "I wasn't assuming anything , just replying to some one else's post ."
To accuse a translation intentionally mistranslating something is pretty serious and not merely "replying to some one else's post". You even suggested inside knowledge of the translators emotions by saying "why they are so afraid of those words" What is your motivation behind your accusation and is it true? Would you like it if a stranger you never met accused you without evidence of being afraid and having bad intentions against God's Word?
My opinion is this is not a grand conspiracy to undermine God's word, as the NIV and ESV already says that Jesus Christ is the Son of God in plenty of other verses already. For example John 20:31 NIV
"But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name." or ESV is very similar, so is NAS, NASB, and others. I think there are many verses proclaiming this throughout.
It seems unlikely that translators had a nefarious motive in my opinion. We should not be quick to judge others' motives as being evil in intention. It's concerning when a verse doesn't match up to other translations. But I think if we're transported to the room where the evidence was in front of them this kind of process would be more understandable. I think these were prayerfully done by believers and I don't see this as being a salvation issue where someone could accidentally follow satan by this verse being ommitted. I think in some cases of the modern translation differences 2 verses were interpreted as one verse and vice versa, since the originals didn't have verse numbers, for example.
I agree with your thinking, whether it was Jerome or Tyndale or Wycliffe or Luther of Cloverdale and others, when they worked on their translation, they were wishing to translate correctly. They were godly men and took this endeavor seriously with an attitude of reverence and soberness. You are right, none of us know any of the people who worked on these and other translations over the centuries and therefore it is sinful for anyone to defame them and case aspersions about their character nor their intent.
I think, for the most part, it is a good thing that such translations as the NSAB, RSV, NIV, AND KJV are revised and updated as more artifacts are recovered and as translators learn more and more about the languages biblical manuscripts were written in because it causes the translations to become more accurate. God is at work in such work as bringing forth a translation and in bringing about revisions. God made His word to be alive and active. It is still powerful like that even today because the Holy Spirit uses the Scriptures to teach, guide, convict, and sanctify us.
There are some translations that are paraphrases such as the Living Bible and the Message that are not the best ones to use for Bible Study. The translators wanted to make them easier to read and understand by paraphrasing. But much is lost in these versions.
Then speaking of faults, may I list just a few verses 'of concern' (in Caps), just in the very chapter we're referring to. And these errors might be very slight even inconsequential to you, nevertheless they can be concerning to some:
a. Revelation 22:4: "And they shall see his face; and his name shall be IN their foreheads." The Greek gives that word as 'epi' = on. Most translations picked up on this, KJV didn't.
b. Revelation 22:11: "He that is UNJUST, let him be UNJUST still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, LET HIM BE HOLY still." For 'unjust', it should be 'unrighteous' (Gk. adikeo) and for 'let him be holy', the Greek is 'hagiastheto', which is 'let him be made holy' still: implying a continued progression in holy living (as opposed to the finality of the unrighteous).
c. Revelation 22:12: "And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to GIVE every man according as his work shall be." Greek is 'apodounai', which is 'to give back, to return, to restore'.
I only share these few examples to show that, at least in the Greek Lexicons we have, there are variations in translations of the Bible, even in the KJV. These may be considered minor & certainly they are if compared to verses that are missing or distorted in other translations; but the question is 'where do we draw the line as to what translation is absolutely faithful to the words given to the apostle?' In my perception, none meet that absolute criterion, but overall, in spite of the many negative opinions by others about the KJV, I still consider it the best we have - but not perfect by any means.
But God is Sovereign and from what I understand, has made sure that the Scriptures has been handled carefully in its copying and translating throughout the ages has been accurately preserved. There are some minor errors in all translations, but the major thrust and truth of the Scriptures is still preserved overall.
I am sure that you do not agree with this, and that is ok. I do not wish to go back and forth on this topic, but from what I have researched., the translations we have are faithful to the texts used for the translations with about 97% accuracy. We are blessed in this day and age to have the Bible translated in languages believers can read own and read for themselves. We also have the internet to use for reading passages in various translations. We should be thankful and appreciate the work of all who have attempted to translate the Scriptures with integrity and good intent, not only the KJV translators, but those who helped to translate other versions throughout the Christian age and before (as in the Septuagint).
Since the KJV was written it may be the most printed (and sold) book IN ENGLISH. But through the centuries and also in many other countries, the Bible is written in other languages and therefore not the KJV. I can pretty much bet that there are more non-English KJV bibles in the hands of Christians around the world now and in the past that have out-sold the KJV. But that said, number of Bibles sold does not do anything to test the veracity of the KJV or any other Bible. Those people reading a non-english Bible (and therefore not a KJV) are still getting saved by what they read and hear preached in their language. The gospel is the power of God for salvation and the Holy Spirit uses it and Scripture to regenerate and teach those who are being saved. It is a work of God, not of man.
Jimbob, I don't think that I have much more to add to this conversation as I think that Chris has answered your inquiry very well. But i sense that you will stand firm on your ideas concerning the KJV, so, to me, for me to comment further is unfruitful.
My NIV has that verse just as you quoted from the KJV, My NKJV does not have the I believe... part. So, I do think that where there are verses that conflict, are left out or added, whatever the version, we should make it known to others so that we can use that information in a good way. Thanks for the info.
Hope to speak with you more. Glad you came on this forum.
c. I understand that 2 Peter 1:19-21 speaks of the prophetical Word that was given in the past & given to the Apostle John, for the future.
d. With Revelation 22:7: this blessing from the Lord Jesus is qualified by Revelation 22:18,19, referring to the Book of the Revelation and not the KJV.
e. 2 Peter 1:21: "prophecy came not in old time": I believe it speaks of the first prophetical Word given by God in the OT & not referring to the KJV.
So clearly, we do have differences of opinion & understanding of the Scriptures & though I hold the KJV in the highest esteem as the best translation we have from the originals & use nothing else, I don't share your conviction that it fully reflects the original spoken Word. There has to be differences, as with any translation work from one language to another, and I don't believe that the Holy Spirit's involvement would do any more than was done in this work. As said earlier, it would be better still if we all read the original languages, and even then, would there be no disputes between believers?
To share my thoughts on your comment, Jimbob. 2 Peter 1:20,21: in this final letter before his decease, the Apostle Peter is essentially warning believers of what was taking place then & what was to come as far as false teaching was concerned. In this first chapter, Peter cites the Word of God given to His prophets to proclaim to His people. They were not "cunningly devised fables" as others did, constructing their own devilish message by perverting God's Word. But Peter spoke as one being an unquestionable witness to the Lord Jesus, to God's Presence on the Mount & to His Word there ("this is My beloved Son") & to the death & resurrection of Jesus and to His Promise of returning again. So it is a "more sure word of prophecy": prophecy of Jesus in the OT fulfilled, & of His second Coming that will be fulfilled.
As the OT prophets of God spoke God's Word directly, receiving it from the Mouth of God (as opposed to the false prophets of that day; as you rightly quoted Jeremiah chapter 23), Peter confirms that the (true) prophets' word was without the involvement of their Will & perceptions, but came as the Holy Spirit moved in them to hear & record it. So, we know that the LORD from Heaven, His Holy Spirit, & the prophets who doubtless trembled as the Word came to them (as intimated in Jeremiah 5:22 & Ezra 10:3), delivered God's Word accurately & in its entirety.
Then we have the recorders, whether of Moses, David, Solomon & the prophets to write down the message as they were moved by the Spirit to write. Those writings/prophecies had to be meticulously guarded & correctly uttered. As copies were made over the centuries, accuracy was important & was retained. Even as Jesus read from Isaiah 61:1,2 (in Luke 4:17-19), He confirmed the accuracy & currency of the Torah ( Luke 4:21) by calling it "Scripture". So we know that till then, the Word of God was correct in its entirety.