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Part 2.
Richard, I was reading the thread you posted and I made a mistake and sent Part 1 to you. I was trying to start a new thread. Sorry.
Daniel 9:24-27.
Seventy weeks are determined upon THY PEOPLE AND UPON THY HOLY CITY, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
THY PEOPLE AND UPON THY HOLY CITY. This is Israel!
These verses have to be interpreted correctly in order to understand eschatology.
Associate these verses with Mathew 24 and Romans 11:25.
Hosea 2:1-23.
and Acts 15:13-16.
Notice verse 16.
AFTER THIS I WILL RETURN, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
After what?
"The fulness of the Gentiles Paul speaks of in Romans 11:25.
Pt 2
After Jesus' crucifixion and his denial by Jews, the church of the gentiles is formed. So the time untill the last week belongs to the gentiles not to the Jews. The last week starts immediately after the rapture of the church and now the last week for the Jews starts. That is why the last week is separated from the rest, because there is a time interval of about 2 th years between them which doesn't belong to the Jews but to the church.
Paul in one of his epistles writes that his nation will be saved after the fullness of the nation enter. So again the last week can not belong to both the church and the Jews. Of course people from nations will be saved, but this time the requirement will be to not accept the beast's mark. On top of these nowhere in the Revelation the church is mentioned.
As an ex Greek Orthodox christian I used to believe that we live in the millennium. The Orthodox church teaches that the millennium is figurative and started after Jesus' resurrection and will finish on His second coming. Many of the early christians believed that but as Chris has said the opinions of the early christians about eschatology were very diverse. For example many believed that he who hinders antichrist's appearance was the Roman rule and after the collapse of the Roman empire the antichrist will grab the chance to conquer the word, a belief that historically was proved to be wrong. So about eschatology those early christians were in a confusion just like us today. But today as we see some events unfolding we can compare what is written to what we live. The full extend of understanding the Revelation will be aquired by people who will be here during the last week. They will know, but it will be too late for them, the flood will have already started. But there would always be a solution for them, that is to be slaughtered. But why when they can avoid it?
GBU
I understand it that way as well.
God bless you.
Pt 1
My understanding of Daniel 9:25-27
"25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: (7+62+1 )the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times."
Why that time of 490 years is split into 7, 62, and 1 weeks?
7 weeks, 49 years, is the time between the order to rebuilt Jerusalem, her walls and the Temple and its accomplishment.
From that date untill Jesus' crucifixion 62 weeks will pass by, that is 434 years.
1 week the last is the period of antichrist ' rule on earth. But let's go to verses 26-27,
"26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate"
Well, here there are two options, the 70th week is EITHER about the time of Jesus' ministry and the destruction of Jerusalem OR antichrist's time.
If it was Jesus' time then additional weeks should have been added since the destruction of Jerusalem was about 40 years later, that is an additional 5-6 weeks. But the prophesy places it in the last week. Also it says that that prince will make a COVENANT with people. Obviously that person was not Titus. Titus didn't make any covenant, he just came, conquered, destroyed and left. So it has to be the antichrist who is going to make a deal with the sinful world and as a sign for that deal he will put his mark, 666, on people.
But why the prophesy separates the last week from the rest?
Thank you for sharing this information. You've presented it the same way I see. I also think that brother Spencer is saying the same thing, that the 70th week is yet a future event to be fulfilled at a later time.
I do agree that we are living in a time period known as the time of the Gentiles. We don't know how long this period will last, but as soon as the church is removed from this earth, it is then that we will enter into the 70th week.
Daniel's prophecy tells us that there will be 7 sevens and then 62 sevens (69 weeks). In 7 sevens, they will build the wall and begin to lay the foundation in Jerusalem under trying times. It took them 49 years (7 sevens).
And then 62 sevens, and Daniel's prophecy says from the time of the going forth of the command to rebuild Jerusalem until the time of the coming Prince when He is cut off (at His crucifixion) is 69 sevens or 483 years.
The decree went out in March 14th 445 B.C., and that is recorded for us in Nehemiah Chapters 2 and 3. And 483 years later, that is 173,880 days, which was the exact day in which Jesus rode into Jerusalem. The Should have known the exact day that their Messiah was to ride into Jerusalem, but they missed it.
The next event to happen is the rapture of the church. And from the rapture of the church until the second coming of Christ, it is called the 70th week of Daniel. We have had 69 weeks, 483 years. And those 483 years ended at the crucifixion of Christ.
But we each can have our view on this and be at peace as it is not a salvific matter.
Thank you for responding.
Part 2.
When answering or friendly debating a doctrine scripture should be used to edify and build up and teach and show but what authority you present your argument.
Let's use your reply to me for an example.
You stated; "Perhaps the Prince is the antichrist or perhaps it was Titus in 70A.D". (Concerning Daniel 9:24-27).
I replied with what I thought was much detail in my view with scripture. (Not to say that it is right)
Your reply to that was.
"S. Spencer, I reread Daniel 9 and I just do not concur that the 70th week has not been fulfilled yet. I think all 70 weeks we fulfilled int he time of Jesus and the fall of Jerusalem. After sincere study of dispensationalism, I am do not adhere to the dispensational viewpoint on the 70 weeks nor to the way they approach Scripture and especially prophecy.
But we each can have our view on this and be at peace as it is not a salvific matter.
Thank you for responding.
You joined the thread, labelled and rejected the viewpoint and provided no scripture and offered no alternative viewpoint.
Then went on another thread and offered no scripture.
You give us your study and research of what you believe the early church taught but not a breakdown of your own work in the scripture.
There is nothing wrong with checking to see what the history of the church thought on doctrine. but as you said they had the bible just like us.
And I say they searched those scriptures and presented their arguments using them.
I hope this doesn't come off offensive.
God bless you.
I am not offended by your response to me at all. I understand your point about supplying Scripture. And I failed to do so.
When I researched (as I indicated in my post you quoted) I studied the Scripture noted in this research to see if it truly does support the views presented. Because I read many articles on this topic, there was a lot of info and Scripture noted. It would take very long and involved posts for me to share the core of what I studied.. That is why I did not do that.
I was speaking to the dispensational theory in my post, which is not directly taught in Scripture as it is a recent introduction to the realm of Christian thought. I was not expounding on a Scripture, but relaying my journey towards where I stand on this subject. I 90% of people on this forum supports dispensationalism, ok. This is just my opinion and others are free to have theirs.
As to the the tenets of dispensationalism, my objections are numerous, but I do not wish to address all of this in this conversation. I am not looking for a disagreement, I was just affirming what the poster had stated in her post.
Have a good day, S. Spencer.
You mention "Hermeneutics". That is that key. The churches pretty much without exception and throughout the Bew Testament period have used the historical-grammatical method of interpreting scripture.
The historical-grammatical method of interpretation employed by the churches seeks to discover the writer's intended meaning, and thus fails to recognize that God is the author and that we are to compare spiritual things with spiritual to discover the underlying gospel message.
Moreover, the method of Bible interpretation employed by the churches fails to recognize that as we approach the end of the world, where we are today, God is unsealing truths that have been kept sealed until the time of the end ( Daniel 12:9-10). This is spoken of in the Bible as a vision that will speak at the end and not lie.
And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.
And the LORD answered me, and said, Write the vision, and make it plain upon tables, that he may run that readeth it. For the vision is yet for an appointed time, but at the end it shall speak, and not lie: though it tarry, wait for it; because it will surely come, it will not tarry. Habakkuk 2:2-3
Christ spoke in parables and without a parable spoke he not. That includes the language used by God in the Bible to convey actual historical events and prophecy.
We have to know who is the letter is being written to. Why, When, and be visual, because Christ says "When you shall see". And it must Harmonize with all of scripture and apply it literally unless there's a signal or sign/reason not to.
May God bless you in your studies.
Matthew 13:10-17
And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear. For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.
Matthew 13:34, 35
All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them: That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.
Jesus (Christ) is the Word of God. So would we not expect God to use parabolic language in describing actual historical and future events throughout the entire Bible in order to both reveal and hide Truth.
The book of Ruth is a prime example. A beautiful love story but dripping with the Gospel message in every verse when we understand how God uses specific words and phrases to reveal some aspect of the Gospel.
Just remember the words written, not all see and hear at the same time. It's God's WORK; when he chooses to reveal himself to someone, and then only a little light at a time.
Just keep preaching TRUTH, it will prevail, at God's appointed time.
God Bless YOU!
I've been reading your resent posts and replies, on the rapture topic and maybe this got away from you. Let's start with your reply to me on the 70th week of Daniel.
After sincere study of dispensationalism, I am do not adhere to the dispensational viewpoint on the 70 weeks "NOR TO THE WAY THEY APPROACH SCRIPTURE" and especially prophecy.
(You do realize that's probably 90 percent of your colleagues on this site, right?) Most who have supported you even though what you have described is a hermeneutics difference. So, there is probably a lot we disagree on that they have chosen to be silent on.
Then you go on another thread and say "There is long-standing consistent teachings across the church age that should also be examined before one takes the teaching of another. The witness of those in the church past are just as valid as any teachings of any person today. Those from the past had the Bible, just like us, to check their thinking against the revealed Word.
(I agree with you when you said: "The witness of those in the church past are just as valid as any teachings of any person today. Those from the past had the Bible, just like us, to check their thinking against the revealed Word". However, in this area of eschatology they were as diverse as we are today. By the time we get to the reformation they done a great job on justification by faith, but they didn't correct the Amillennial eschatology that was still under the influences of Origen and Augustine.
You have often said you studied the dispensational viewpoint along with other doctrines by way of who, what and how the earlier church viewed it. But Dear Gigi that's not the same as studying scripture.
Here's the danger in that. We can get bogged down in studying doctrine or rather others doctrine and neglect studying scripture and only have a shell of understanding.
Therefore, we misapply scripture to fit the doctrine.
Running out of space.
There is only ONE "ism": Bapt"ism" in(to) the NAME of Christ (submerged into LIVING WATER); your his wife, he has GIVEN YOU his NAME, you have BECOME ONE, as he and the Father are ONE.
Numbers 6:27 And they shall put MY NAME upon the children of ISRAEL (Christ is the promised SEED of Israel): and I will Bless Them.
2 Samuel 7:13 And He (Christ) shall BUILD a house for MY NAME, and I will establish the throne of the kingdom forever.
Isaiah 43:7 Everyone that is called by MY NAME; for I HAVE CREATED him for MY GLORY, I have formed him, I have made him.
John 17:22 The glory which thou gavest me I have given to them; that they may be ONE as we are ONE.
God Bless YOU!
God bless.
Yes, some say that but if we examine the text closely it groups Titus with "The People" who destroyed the city and the sanctuary.
Let's highlight what the people shall do.
AND THE PEOPLE of the prince that shall come SHALL DESTROY THE CITY AND THE SANCTUARY; (That's what Titus did.) He's part of the people.
They are the people of the prince that SHALL COME. ( This means after the destruction.) And he haven't come yet.
vs 27 continues on about this prince.
'(AND HE) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate".
This Parallels the work of the Antichrist in Revelation and Jesus makes reference to this as end times prophecy in Matthew 24:15.
"When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
Jesus was answering the questions of the disciples from vs 3.
(And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?)
This puts the work of the prince in Daniel 9 far future.
Daniel 9:24 is the scope of things.
Daniel 9:25 details the 69 weeks.
Daniel 9:26 details the interval. (What's to happen after the 69th week but BEFORE the 70th week.
Daniel 9:27 details the 70th week.
I will elaborate more on this over the weekend.
God bless.
I understand you are busy with work and your concerns about your brother, so not to rush, not on Daniel, but just a few things to consider about Matthew 24. My understanding of Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21 is twofold, for then, and our future.
The reason is, history tells us the believers in Jesus got out and went to Pella across the Jordan river before the fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD. And on the sabbath, today would not matter but then the gates would be locked, and it would be hard to leave.
Matt. 24:3, in Mark, we see it was Peter, James, John, and Andrew that ask Jesus in private. Jesus had just told them the temple would be destroyed and Matthew records "what sign of thy coming and the end of the world." It is easy to jump to they were talking about Jesus' second coming, but.
Jesus' crucifixion and resurrection were hidden from them until all was done. Luke 9:44-45 Luke 18:31-34 and after they did not believe He resurrected. Mark 20:9-11 Luke 24:6-8, John 20:9. Even right before He ascended, they were expecting Jesus to set up the kingdom then, Acts 1:6. So why in Matthew 24:3 would we interpret it as if they were asking Jesus about His second coming?
I will send you by this weekend what I have studied on the six things determined in Daniel 9:24 if I can shorten it enough, I do not like to send long posts. If you don't want me to post it let me know.
God bless,
RLW
Before I wind down for the night.
You stated;
, in Mark, we see it was Peter, James, John, and Andrew that ask Jesus in private. Jesus had just told them the temple would be destroyed and Matthew records "what sign of thy coming and the end of the world." IT IS EASY TO JUMP TO THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT JESUS'S SECOND COMING, but Jesus' crucifixion and resurrection were hidden from them until all was done.
What do you believe they were asking Jesus when they asked; "What is the sign of thy coming?
Thanks and God bless.
The disciples continued to trust that Jesus was the promised Messiah that He was. They even competed for what positions they would have in the kingdom that they thought Jesus was going to set up then. Mark writes when shall these things be and what will be the sign when all these things will be fulfilled? Luke writes a similar statement.
Taking all three gospels and the information the disciples had at that time. What is in Matthew Jesus' coming was Him coming into power as king and setting up the kingdom and that would be the end of the age. He would deliver them from the Roman oppressors and form once again a great and independent Jewish kingdom and would restore justice and peace.
I understand this may differ and I am not saying I am correct, but this is my understanding of the truth of Olivet Discourse when combining the writings of all three Matthew, Mark, and Luke. If they did not know He was going to die, how could they ask Him when He would come the second time.
God bless,
RLW
Part 2.
I ended my last reply a little to soon.
By way of review I would like to remind us the context and topic.
1st the title of this post. ISRAEL GODS ELECT.
2nd The elect mentioned in Matthew 24 is Israel not the Church.
3rd The focus on Daniel 9 and Matthew 24 is Israel. Thanks.
In my last post I placed emphasis on the Desciples asking for "signs" of his coming to restore the kingdom and emphasis on the answer the Lord gave them.
(He gave them what they asked for.)
"The signs".
In Acts 1:6 they asked him directly "wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
Notice; They wasn't asking for signs this time. ( He has left them and come back and still no Kingdom!)
He answered them in vs 7.
It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
vs 8 he puts them to work building on the foundation he has laid by his death and resurrection. "Church things, Not kingdom.
We're in the interval several days after the 69th week when he was presented as king riding on a donkey. and then crucified as Daniel 9:26 presents.
"And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself:"
As I mentioned earlier Jesus points the Desciples to Daniel 9:27 as a sign in Matthew 24:15.
I will leave off here for now until this weekend.
Go's bless
I need to apologize, I believe I am going around the context of Israel as the elect in Daniel, and Israel is the elect in Matthew 24. I agree that in Daniel 9, Daniel's people are Israel and not the Church. I took your posts as saying Daniel 9:27 and Matthew 24 are both on the end times. Sorry if I was off.
When Jesus came, He came only for the lost sheep of Israel, and after Pentecost, the apostles were still only going to the lost sheep of Israel.
If you could expand on the nation Israel being the elect in Matthew 24. I can reply to part two, but I feel I am missing something, and I am not addressing your context, if that makes sense.
God bless,
RLW
It's no need to apologize, it's all in the context,
I just wanted to highlight the focus of the thread so I can present why I feel the elect is Israel in Matthew 24.
I believe Matthew 24:2 was accomplished by the "people" of the prince that shall come in Daniel 9:26.
I will get back to you soon Ronald with more to share on this.
Thanks and God bless.
This is part of the study I did on Daniel 9:24-27, the six things, this is as short as I could get it.
Six things determined upon Daniel's people and the holy city.
Part 1
Determined, cut, to divide, hence to decree, to be determined, be decreed, and shall come upon thy people, be settled, be marked out.
To finish, prison a primitive root; to restrict, by an act, hold back or in or word prohibit -- finish, forbid, keep back, refrain, restrain, retain, shut up, be stayed, withhold. Also, can mean the bending or subduing of the will, "tame for the yoke". An animal or land that is tamed has been worked and is complete and ready for use. Taming includes; the construction of holding pens, putting the soil to the plow, and harvesting of the crops.
Determined upon Israel and Jerusalem
1. To finish the transgression
2. To make an end of sins
3. To make reconciliation for iniquity
4. To bring in everlasting righteousness
5. To seal up vision and prophecy 6. To anoint the most holy
This prophecy is determined for Daniel's people, Israel, the lost sheep, and the holy city, Jerusalem. Not the world and the nations of peoples, it is just Israel and the holy city. The six points above are what is determined, and can we verify if they have been fulfilled? None of these were fulfilled in the first sixty-nine weeks so, does scripture show us if these six things that were determined were fulfilled by the Messiah, Jesus?
See Part 2
Part 2
To finish the transgression
To finish; to withhold something from someone. transgression "transgress," to overpass as any rule prescribed as the limit of duty, to break or violate, as a law, civil or moral, the act of transgressing, rebellion, revolt, offend, that a penalty for the transgression a payment is due for the offense. Debt and transgressions, that they/we cannot pay, and the animal sacrifices fall short.
The only way anyone can stand before a just and holy God is if somebody is worthy and spotless to pay the debt. And the only one who has earned the right to pay that debt is the Messiah the Son of God and we have justification through Christ alone.
Psalm 32:1 Psalm 89:32 Psalm 103:11-12 Isaiah 43:25 Isaiah 53:5-8 Isaiah 53:11 Galatians 3:19 Ephesians 2:4-5 Hebrews 9:15-18
Jesus with a perfect life gave up his body to death; he fulfilled the first covenant of sacrificial law. His sacrifice is the redemption of the transgressions and the fulfillment of the first covenant of sacrificial law.
He became sin for us, and with his blood made the new covenant being the only mediator of the New Testament that we through faith in Jesus Christ receive the promise of eternal inheritance. Offered first to the house of Israel for He came first only for the lost sheep of Israel then was offered to the rest of the world.
See Part 3
Part 3
To make an end of sins.
To make an end; as put an end to/make an end to, affix a seal, to seal up, a document is rolled up and sealed with wet clay. The signet ring of the owner bears the image of his seal and is pressed into the clay. This is what was done by the Holy Spirit, 2 Cor. 1:22 Eph. 1:13 2 Tim. 2:19.
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Sin reaches for things, such as safety, knowledge, peace, happiness, and pleasure. Nevertheless, behind the act of good, sin ultimately creates a confrontation between obedience and rebellion. If not in faith, it is sin.
Psalm 32:1 Matthew 1:21 Matthew 22:11-13 John 1:29 John 3:5 Acts 5:31 Romans 3:25 Romans 8:3 Hebrews 9:26 Hebrews 10:8-12 1 Corinthians 15:3 1 John 3:5-6 Revelation 16:15
The covering of our sins was accomplished on the cross at Calvary. When he said IT IS FINISHED, he provided us with the garments (wedding garments) to cover our sins. Sin has not completely stopped yet but it is covered by the blood of Jesus and sealed by the Holy Spirit.
This passage points toward the Messiah who died because of our sins. In Jesus's death, punishment for our sins is paid for. Jesus's death we are dead to sin. Walking in the Spirit meant that we are trusting in Christ by faith to be made right before God, and not trusting in the law.
Whenever Paul speaks about walking after the flesh, it is in the context of trying to be made right before God by the law, which is equivalent to self-righteousness. I believe the prophecy is fulfilled in Jesus Christ and if we are in Jesus Christ, it is fulfilled for us. Praise God that Jesus Christ made an end of sins! As Jesus said from the cross, "It is finished!"
See Part 4
Part 4
To make reconciliation for iniquity
Reconciliation is an element of salvation that refers to the results of the atonement, to coat or cover, Isaiah 61:10 Rev. 3:4 Rev. 16:15, iniquity is guilt, crookedness, twistedness, perverseness, that which is not straight or upright, and moral distortion in the dark.
Colossians 1:20-22 Isaiah 53:5-6 Isaiah 53:11 Ephesians 2:16 Titus 2:14 Romans 4:7 2 Romans 5:10-11 2 Corinthians 5:18-19 Colossians 1:19-22
The word reconcile means to bring back to a former state of harmony, Jesus reconciled both Jew and Gentile unto God in one body by the cross and now through Jesus we both Jew and Gentile have access by one Spirit unto the Father, no more strangers or foreigners but fellow citizens. Making reconciliation for iniquity concerns our involvement in the work of salvation. God has reconciled himself to us and empowered us by his Spirit to reconcile ourselves to God and one another.
To bring in everlasting righteousness.
Everlasting, no end, long duration, antiquity, futurity, forever, ever, everlasting, evermore, perpetual, continuous existence. Righteousness, God's attribute, justice, mercy, loving-kindness, in conformity to the demands of the covenant, and according to God's will, fair and balanced.
Isaiah 61:10-11 Hebrews 8:12 Romans 3:21-26 Romans 5:17-21 1 Corinthians 1:30 2 Corinthians 5:21 1 Peter 2:24
Everlasting righteousness was what our Lord manifested in His sinless life. Jesus by His blood entered in once into the holy place not made by hands having obtained eternal redemption, everlasting, and in Jesus we have everlasting righteousness and salvation, through faith, given by grace from God, by the blood of the Lamb freely offered for us. We have no righteousness apart from Jesus Christ.
See Part 5
Part 5
To seal up vision and prophecy
Seal up, affix a seal, a seal in biblical times as today, is used to guarantee security or indicate ownership. Vision, God's communication with man, prophecy (w-n-), the same word for prophet, a divine vision, a vision spoken of a divine vision or dream, Isaiah 29:7 God spoke in times past through the prophets, but these last days spoke to us by his Son, Heb. 1:1-2.
The Mosaic Law and covenant pointed to Jesus. He sealed them up, that is, he fulfilled them. The greatest prediction, which runs like a golden thread through the whole contents of the Old Testament, is that regarding the coming and work of the Messiah, Jesus; and the greatest use of prophecy was to perpetuate faith in his coming and to prepare the world for that event.
Daniel 9:23 John 6:27 Mark 1:14-15 Acts 3:18 John 5:36-40 Matthew 5:17 Matthew 11:11-15
The Bible shows Jesus fulfilled the prophets, and the Mosaic law the first covenant fulfilled, sealed and His ministry was confirming the New.
See Part 6
Part 6 last part
To anoint the Most Holy.
Anoint, the meaning of mashach is fourfold. First, an individual or object set apart for divine use, the anointed. Most Holy q--m q-e most holy most holy place.
Some put this at the baptizing of Jesus by John the Baptist, the start of Jesus's ministry.
Matthew4:13-17 Mark 1:9-11 John 1:29-34
This could very well be the anointing in Daniel 9:24. It started Jesus's ministry, and we know he is most holy. There is another choice, which I believe is what is said in Daniel, not in the future, but was done by Jesus after he ascended to heaven before the destruction of the temple made by man. It is the anointing of the holy of holies in the temple not made with hands. Hebrews 8:1-12 Hebrews 9:6-14
With this, it shows Jesus went in once and anointed the Holy of Holies not made with hands. Jesus anointed the Holy of Holies once and made it possible for man through him and the Holy Spirit for God to dwell in us, a tabernacle. If we look at verse 9:8 "The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing". Remember when Jesus cried out and said it was finished? He gave up the ghost, the veil of the temple rent in half, and the holy of holies opened to man. Like the tabernacle of David an open tent everyone could see the glory of God.
This is to take however you may, my understanding These were fulfilled.
God bless,
RLW
Part 3.
Matthew 24:32-34.
Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
Israel represents the fig tree in scripture.
Hosea 9:10.
Jeremiah 24:2-3.
Joel 1:7.
This generation is a particular people of this time. (Israel)
Generations is used in that way in scripture as a particular people or Genealogy as seen in Genesis 5:1 and other places.
SO YOU KNOW IT IS NEAR WHEN YOU SEE ISRAEL START TO BLOSOM.
THAT DIDNT HAPPEN IN 70 AD.
Back to Daniel 9:24.
Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
Reconciliation. Jesus done that on the cross, but no one is reconciled until they believe. As a Nation Israel still rejects Christ and will continue until the tribulation. Hosea 5:15, Matthew 23:39.
To finish the transgression. That refers to Israel. Zachariah 12:10 "The last days.
to bring in everlasting righteousness.
To anoint the most Holy. I also believe that's the Holy of holiness. but I believe that is in the Millennium temple that Ezekiel is talking about in the 41st through the 46 chapter.
I will have to leave off here for now Ronald.
God bless.
Thanks, brother, for your replies, you have spent some time and I know you are pressed for time. Tell your wife it was my fault. I have really enjoyed this. I see parts we agree and others not quite. It has been a while since I have really dug deep on this. The part of fitting a seven-year time into Revelation and some other things I am having trouble seeing the scriptures line up.
I do believe in a literal millennial and Jesus will reign from Jerusalem and the land restored to Israel. Not sure of a temple with the animal sacrifices, maybe but we do know there will not be a temple in the new Jerusalem.
I know we will not know all but give me a day or so and I will get back and if I find I was wrong I will joyfully say thank You.
God bless,
RLW
I enjoy when my wife kidnapps me.
That means we get to eat out and no dishes to wash for me.
God bless.
Part 2.
As I presented my view of a "to the day" accurate 69th weeks, I believe if one holds the view that there is no interval, and these weeks are consecutive. SEVERAL YEARS PAST BEFORE TITUS DESTROYED THE TEMPLE. 70weeks dosent add up.
This brings us to Matthews 23:37-39
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
Notice vs 39. "Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord".
Now we know they saw him again so I believe this means to Behold him as a nation. Remember Luke 19:42.
Also see Hosea 5:15. I will go and return to my place, TILL THEY ACKNOWLEDGE THEIR OFFENCE, and seek my face: in their affliction they will seek me early.
ISRAEL AS A NATION SIN IS THEIR REJECTION.
Paul hammers on this rejection, Blindness, and restoration in Romans 9,10,and 11.
Paul summarizes this very well in Romans 11:25-28.
PAY CLOSE ATTENTION TO THIS, I BELIEVE IT STRENTHENS MY ARGUMENT DANIEL 9:24 HASNT HAPPENED YET.
"For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, AND SHALL TURN AWAY UNGODLYNESS FROM JACOB:
For this is my covenant unto them, WHEN I SHALL TAKE AWAY THEIR SINS.
As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching THE ELECTION, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
This hasn't happened yet.
See Part 3.
Who's the Elect in Mathew 24.
Part 1.
Here is my understanding of the timeline given to Israel in Daniel's people in Daniel 9:24-27 and also how it associates with Matthew 23, Matthew 24. Romans 11 and so on. I might add a few more as I go.
Daniel 9:24
Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city,
to finish the transgression,
and to make an end of sins,
and to make reconciliation for iniquity,
and to bring in everlasting righteousness,
and to seal up the vision
and prophecy,
and to anoint the most Holy.
I WILL COME BACK TO vs 24.
Daniel 9:25-26 most agree that this was accomplished but what I think what is important to Know is that it was a dated prophecy, and it was precise in its timing. "from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks"
On occasions in the Gospels they tried to make Jesus king but he would give them the slip because his time has not come yet.
On the triumphal entry he arranged and fulfilled the prophecy riding on a donkey. Zechariah 9:9.
This also fulfilled the dated, mathematical prophecy of Daniel 9:25 on the very day. Read Luke 19:30-44.
LISTEN TO THE LORD HERE IN Luke 19:41-44.
And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it,
Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, AT LEAST IN THIS THY DAY, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes.
For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side,
And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; BECAUSE THOU KNEWEST NOT THE TIME OF THY VISITATION.
He fulfilled the prophecies, and they rejected their king and was held accountable.
I believe this ends the 69th week.
See Part 2.
I'm sorry it's taking so long between responses. Please bare with me.
I've read over your material on Daniel 9:24 and you say you believe this was fulfilled.
Where do you fit the abominations that make it desolate into your time line?
I believe Daniel 9:24 is the scope of All 70 weeks.
I believe 69 weeks was fulfilled and the 70th week is yet to come.
I also don't hold the view vs 24 has been fulfilled.
Thanks for being patient with me.
God bless.
No, I haven't read it but yet. However, I can hardly wait. I'm forever learning and appreciate much scriptural input.
I'm running behind and like to catch up with Brother Ronalds reply. I have been very busy, and my wife kidnapped me yesterday so I'm attempting to engage this morning.
Blessings.
Thanks for your reply.
You said you believe in Matthew the Desciples was asking Jesus when was he coming into power as king and setting up the kingdom and that would be the end of the age. He would deliver them from the Roman oppressors and form once again a great and independent Jewish kingdom and would restore justice and peace.
Here's the issues I have with that view.
Let's say you're right in the way the Apostles asked in Matthew 24:3. We have to put the emphasis is on the answerJesus gave.
He gives a far future scenario in that discourse when he points us to Daniel as the key to prophecy.
We also must keep in mind that they were asking for signs of his coming.
Whether they fully understood or not look at what Jesus replied.
"Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.
He said many shall "COME" in my name.
All through the Gospels he said he would go away and come again.
Whether they understood that or not doesn't put emphasis on the when and how.
But his answer does.
I'll continue this weekend.
God bless.
On part 1
Jesus knew what was going to happen and much of what He told the disciples was what was going to happen to them, to prepare them for what He just told them when the temple would be destroyed. Does part of this discourse apply to the future? Yes
Matt. 24:5-13 History and the Bible document that there were several men as false Messiahs, false prophets that deceived many and which convinced many and led them to revolt to liberate Jerusalem from Roman occupation. Josephus tells us that impostors drew great multitudes after them into the wilderness, and he mentions an Egyptian prophet. We see this in Acts 21:36-38.
We have Theudas in Acts 5:36 and Judas of Galilee in Acts 5:37-8 and Simon in Acts 8:9-11, and there was more. For us today many come in the name of Jesus saying, Jesus is Christ, but they deceive and make merchandise of people. We must not ignore the first thing He said after they asked Him "Take heed that no man deceive you."
There were many conflicts between the nations around Jerusalem and Rome was having wars that caused famine. Claudius invaded Britain in 46AD, there was a great famine in Syria. Rome took control over the temple along with the sacred treasury and there was a great famine in Jerusalem.
The Jews were having small scrimmages that led to the revolt in 66 AD. We see in the bible a famine was going on, in Acts 11:27-29 in 1 Corinthians 16:1-3 Where Paul was collecting things for those in Jerusalem because they were starving. There were earthquakes in Rome, Pergamum, Laodicea, and Judea in the 50s and 60s.
We see what the Jews did to Peter and John and the first they killed was Steven and then most of them. and what Paul says about what they did in all the synagogues Acts 26:10-11. But enduring to the end the same shall be saved does not mean their flesh life would be saved.
Will cover more, hope I am making sense.
God bless,
RLW