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In regards to your third paragraph; I've never said or inferred something exists outside of God such as the knowledge of the universe or history. I'm completely befuddled how you could infer this, when I've made it perfectly clear that nothing except God exists. These things can't exist outside His essence simply because they do not exist at all. What God did not create can only be in our own mind apart from His. They are not reality. Only what God creates is. His essence denies His ability to know of anything that is not reality (exists). He does not believe in illusions (dreams). Knows nothing of them. Only reality.
"Sometimes we say things that seem reasonable but they may be subtly off the mark of what is true". Sound familiar? Surely you must also apply your own suggestion to yourself. Yet, there is nothing subtle about implying God can be divided by opposing Himself. And by attributing to Him qualities from the dark.
When light enters darkness the darkness is abolished. Light abolishes darkness by showing us the darkness and everything with it is NOT there (does not exist, not real). Love is incapable of any exceptions. Only if there is fear (darkness) does the idea of exceptions SEEM to be meaningful. Exceptions are fearful because they are made by fear.
I'll say it again - God is Knowledge; but knowing only what exists in reality, not fantasy land.
And again: Anything that comes from God must be exactly like Him. God could not create anything that is not perfect, or else He wouldn't be perfect. The logic of that is flawless. If God is perfect and eternal, then by definition, anything He creates would also have to be perfect and eternal. Nothing subtle about this.
yet even more so since He is God incarnated in perfect humanity. He remains God and man eternally, but was not God and man from eternity pre-creation.
What is created does not need to be exactly like its creator. By simple reason, we can know that what is created has a starting point after the one creating it. This happens when we create things, such as what I am typing right now or when we create a new product. I say this by illustration with this caveat, we are not God. When God created, He created all things from nothing, bringing into existence what did not formerly exist. Therefore, what is created is not eternal like Himself, nor does what He created contain His divine essence (which cannot be communicate or created), nor is what He created exactly like Himself, because He is the only true God. Nothing created can be compared to Him. When He created all things they were created as good as a created thing can be. So God's work in creation was perfectly done. Only God is truly perfect. Creation was changed with the entrance of sin (not doing what is good).
And I will end with saying that I agree with your advice for me to take my own advice, which I do.
Thanks for such a thoughtful response. Look forward to talking with you again.
I hope you do not mind me continuing this discussion today.
In reference to "something outside of God" I was not saying that you conveyed this idea in any of your posts. I was saying that because God is self-sufficient, not needing anything outside of Himself to exist or be complete. Knowledge of any kind concerning the universe or history is knowledge that is dependent on the creation to exist. Therefore, cannot be Knowledge. Likewise, the universe is not a part of God. he created it, therefore it has not eternally been in existence, but He has been. God cannot be anything that is created or non-eternal.
When you say that "these things do not exist at all" you are denying the actual, physical existence of matter and created things. This is what Christian Science teaches (Christian Science is an aberrant cult) as well as some New Age teachings and Eastern pagan religions
As to the illustration of light and darkness. Darkness is a deprivation of light. So, yes it is the negative of light, which does actually exist because it is made of photons and wave energy. It is a physical reality. God created it. Similarly sin is a deprivation of good. So sin has no existence of its own, but good does because God is good and He also created good things. When He created all things visible and invisible, He did create it "good" according to His character. Imperfection came when sin entered into His creation through Satan and his fallen angels and through Adam and Eve.
God created us as sensory beings who can use our five senses to physically observe and touch what God has created. We have physical bodies that employ these senses in living every minute. Same is true with animals. Angels do not have physical bodies so they would experience God's creation in a different manner that we do not know. God is Spirit so He does not sense like we do, except, now that Jesus became man, He senses as we do,....
I am not saying any of this to "beat up" one your ideas or to act like I have all the answers (I don't). But because I care for you and cannot leave you with what you have posted without responding. That would not only be unloving, but also disobedient of what God would have believers do to warn those who error in serious ways. I also post what I know to be classic, tested, orthodoxy for others who read these posts so that they can test their own beliefs against what has been the tried doctrines of our faith.
Like me, anyone can google ideas that come forward on this forum or from any situation that one finds themselves hearing doctrines that they may not adhere to in order to find out more about those who believe a certain doctrine and those who refute it as well as learn about what has been taught consistantly throughout the centuries.
So, please take this all in love. Maybe do a search about these ideas for yourself. And always, take everything to the word of God, as that is our final authority. Have a good evening , One-eighty. My thoughts and prayers are with you as I appreciate the same from you.
I have considered what you have posted concerning God and also as your response to my post. Since sending my post to you i have endeavored to understand where your belief that God is Knowledge or energy (as you have stated in the past) and that only God exists (as in this and some past posts) come from, as they are not historic doctrines of the Christian Church that are supported by Scripture.
I found that Monism (which prevails in Hinduism and New Age Philosophy) is the belief that all is God and therefore nothing exists but God. This is termed pantheism and is outside of Christian belief. You can look it up to find out more. ]]
I found that those who affirm that God is Knowledge or energy or life force or consciousness or the universe, are speaking the belief of many New Agers, Buddhists, etc. who equate God with something that is part of the creation (or all as in the Universe) but these beliefs are outside of the Christian faith.
Dear One-Eighty, I am not trying to beat you up here, nor be argumentative with you. I am standing up for what has been considered classical, orthodox (correct and true) Christian doctrines that go back to the beginnings of the church. This teaching makes God an aspect of creation rather than the creator who created everything from outside of Creation.
Today we live in culture where anyone can be exposed to all sorts of false beliefs and idolatrous ideas about God either inadvertently or purposefully through such sources as books, internet, friends, media such as movies and t.v. Our current culture is replete with doctrines that stand against the true doctrines of Scripture entrusted to the saints of God. It is always a good thing to test our own beliefs and be watch over our faith and doctrine carefully to see if we are truly of the faith ( 1 Tim. 4:16) passed down through the apostles.
I know that I can be wrong as easily as you can, any of us can be deceived by false doctrines if we are not diligent....cont.
In regards to your third paragraph; I've never said or inferred something exists outside of God such as the knowledge of the universe or history. I'm completely befuddled how you could infer this, when I've made it perfectly clear that nothing except God exists. These things can't exist outside His essence simply because they do not exist at all. What God did not create can only be in our own mind apart from His. They are not reality. Only what God creates is. His essence denies His ability to know of anything that is not reality (exists). He does not believe in illusions (dreams). Knows nothing of them. Only reality.
"Sometimes we say things that seem reasonable but they may be subtly off the mark of what is true". Sound familiar? Surely you must also apply your own suggestion to yourself. Yet, there is nothing subtle about implying God can be divided by opposing Himself. And by attributing to Him qualities from the dark.
When light enters darkness the darkness is abolished. Light abolishes darkness by showing us the darkness and everything with it is NOT there (does not exist, not real). Love is incapable of any exceptions. Only if there is fear (darkness) does the idea of exceptions SEEM to be meaningful. Exceptions are fearful because they are made by fear.
I'll say it again - God is Knowledge; but knowing only what exists in reality, not fantasy land.
And again: Anything that comes from God must be exactly like Him. God could not create anything that is not perfect, or else He wouldn't be perfect. The logic of that is flawless. If God is perfect and eternal, then by definition, anything He creates would also have to be perfect and eternal. Nothing subtle about this.
Peace,
GOD IS
Cont....
yet even more so since He is God incarnated in perfect humanity. He remains God and man eternally, but was not God and man from eternity pre-creation.
What is created does not need to be exactly like its creator. By simple reason, we can know that what is created has a starting point after the one creating it. This happens when we create things, such as what I am typing right now or when we create a new product. I say this by illustration with this caveat, we are not God. When God created, He created all things from nothing, bringing into existence what did not formerly exist. Therefore, what is created is not eternal like Himself, nor does what He created contain His divine essence (which cannot be communicate or created), nor is what He created exactly like Himself, because He is the only true God. Nothing created can be compared to Him. When He created all things they were created as good as a created thing can be. So God's work in creation was perfectly done. Only God is truly perfect. Creation was changed with the entrance of sin (not doing what is good).
And I will end with saying that I agree with your advice for me to take my own advice, which I do.
Thanks for such a thoughtful response. Look forward to talking with you again.
I hope you do not mind me continuing this discussion today.
In reference to "something outside of God" I was not saying that you conveyed this idea in any of your posts. I was saying that because God is self-sufficient, not needing anything outside of Himself to exist or be complete. Knowledge of any kind concerning the universe or history is knowledge that is dependent on the creation to exist. Therefore, cannot be Knowledge. Likewise, the universe is not a part of God. he created it, therefore it has not eternally been in existence, but He has been. God cannot be anything that is created or non-eternal.
When you say that "these things do not exist at all" you are denying the actual, physical existence of matter and created things. This is what Christian Science teaches (Christian Science is an aberrant cult) as well as some New Age teachings and Eastern pagan religions
As to the illustration of light and darkness. Darkness is a deprivation of light. So, yes it is the negative of light, which does actually exist because it is made of photons and wave energy. It is a physical reality. God created it. Similarly sin is a deprivation of good. So sin has no existence of its own, but good does because God is good and He also created good things. When He created all things visible and invisible, He did create it "good" according to His character. Imperfection came when sin entered into His creation through Satan and his fallen angels and through Adam and Eve.
God created us as sensory beings who can use our five senses to physically observe and touch what God has created. We have physical bodies that employ these senses in living every minute. Same is true with animals. Angels do not have physical bodies so they would experience God's creation in a different manner that we do not know. God is Spirit so He does not sense like we do, except, now that Jesus became man, He senses as we do,....
I meant to say, "God cannot be Knowledge"
I am not saying any of this to "beat up" one your ideas or to act like I have all the answers (I don't). But because I care for you and cannot leave you with what you have posted without responding. That would not only be unloving, but also disobedient of what God would have believers do to warn those who error in serious ways. I also post what I know to be classic, tested, orthodoxy for others who read these posts so that they can test their own beliefs against what has been the tried doctrines of our faith.
Like me, anyone can google ideas that come forward on this forum or from any situation that one finds themselves hearing doctrines that they may not adhere to in order to find out more about those who believe a certain doctrine and those who refute it as well as learn about what has been taught consistantly throughout the centuries.
So, please take this all in love. Maybe do a search about these ideas for yourself. And always, take everything to the word of God, as that is our final authority. Have a good evening , One-eighty. My thoughts and prayers are with you as I appreciate the same from you.
I have considered what you have posted concerning God and also as your response to my post. Since sending my post to you i have endeavored to understand where your belief that God is Knowledge or energy (as you have stated in the past) and that only God exists (as in this and some past posts) come from, as they are not historic doctrines of the Christian Church that are supported by Scripture.
I found that Monism (which prevails in Hinduism and New Age Philosophy) is the belief that all is God and therefore nothing exists but God. This is termed pantheism and is outside of Christian belief. You can look it up to find out more. ]]
I found that those who affirm that God is Knowledge or energy or life force or consciousness or the universe, are speaking the belief of many New Agers, Buddhists, etc. who equate God with something that is part of the creation (or all as in the Universe) but these beliefs are outside of the Christian faith.
Dear One-Eighty, I am not trying to beat you up here, nor be argumentative with you. I am standing up for what has been considered classical, orthodox (correct and true) Christian doctrines that go back to the beginnings of the church. This teaching makes God an aspect of creation rather than the creator who created everything from outside of Creation.
Today we live in culture where anyone can be exposed to all sorts of false beliefs and idolatrous ideas about God either inadvertently or purposefully through such sources as books, internet, friends, media such as movies and t.v. Our current culture is replete with doctrines that stand against the true doctrines of Scripture entrusted to the saints of God. It is always a good thing to test our own beliefs and be watch over our faith and doctrine carefully to see if we are truly of the faith ( 1 Tim. 4:16) passed down through the apostles.
I know that I can be wrong as easily as you can, any of us can be deceived by false doctrines if we are not diligent....cont.
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