I will give you my view and I will extend to vs 37.
vs 36-37 is where the answer is.
"Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, THITHER WILL THE EAGLES BE GATHERED TOGETHER.
Now parallel it with.
Revelation 19:11-18. "focusing on vs 17."
And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
( vs14) And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, CLOTHED IN FINE LINEN, WHITE AND CLEAN.
(Parallels with; Jude 1:14.)
Those clothed in fine linen is the same group in Revelation 19:7.
THIS GROUP IS THE BRIDE OF CHRIST. THE CHURCH!!
15) And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16) And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
17) And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the FOWLS THAT FLY IN THE MIDST OF HEAVEN, COME AND GATHER YOURSELVES TOGETHER unto the supper of the great God; That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
THIS GROUP IS TAKEN FOR JUDGMENT.
This is after the tribulation and the Church comes with him, They were raptured atleast 7 years prior.
Those left goes on into the Millennium. Those taken, Judgment as well in Matthew 24.
We have to understand the difference between taken and left.
Sin (unbelief) governs OUR FLESH, the wages of SIN (unbelief) is death, the "GIFT" of belief is eternal LIFE.
So man is either consumed by unbelief, and goes to the grave, to await the second resurrection: or he believes he and Christ were resurrected TOGETHER; becoming ONE NEW CREATION, and will NEVER SEE DEATH, because he has ALREADY DIED on the CROSS with CHRIST.
ONE will be TAKEN in DEATH, and go to the grave: ONE will be LEFT, never to SEE DEATH, dwelling in the presence of GOD.
Luke 20:36 Neither can they DIED ANYMORE (you DIED with Christ): for THEY (the one's LEFT, and will never see the grave) are EQUAL unto the angels (omnipresent, glorified bodies); and are the children of God (God can't die), being the children of (Christ's) RESURRECTION.
Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he who hath PART in the first (Christ's) resurrection, on such the second death hath NO POWER ...
Hi Ernie, I usually avoid end times discussions as its not a salvation issue and is mostly speculation and sometimes unfruitful, but am happy to share my current opinion. For years I assumed the good were raptured and those that remain will face tribulation- perhaps including fire that destroys the earth before it is made anew. The Left Behind book/movie series depicts it this way.
However, someone on this forum shared evidence for another view and it seemed compelling. I will need to research more and find those verses, but there is support for the wicked to be the ones raptured. Romans 8.21.
In this section of Luke 17:32-33 it says to remember Lot's wife and says who ever wants to keep their life will lose it, etc. It is phrased in a way where wicked may be the ones losing their life before Christ followers. Then Jesus appears and those asleep in the grave will rise and meet Jesus in the air, then judgment day before eternal life. That is the sequence of events as I currently understand them based on the scripture evidence I've seen. What I'm uncertain in how it fits its destroying the earth by fire. 2 Peter 3:7. For this to fit, if wicked are destroyed first with fire, it would seem to take a miracle to not hurt the followers, or a selective fire of some kind. God bless.
We can have assurance from the account of Noah and from the passing over of the Israelites so as they were not afflicted with the plagues of Egypt nor the death of the firstborn. We can rest in God knowing how He parted the Red Sea to have the Israelites pass through on dry land and how God delivered the enemies in Canaan into the hands of the Israelites when the nation entered the promised land to possess all it as God promised (see Joshua 21:43) God fulfilled all fo the promised He had made to the Israelites ( Joshua 23:15)
God is faithful and able to preserve us or rescue us or make us stand in the day of trouble. But we also must remember that our Lord and Paul and Peter said that we will suffer also, be persecuted, arrested, tried legally, and martyred for His Name's sake. Jesus said we would be hated by men just as they hated himself. We should pray for God to prepare us for such hardships that He may allow us to experience. We certainly should pray that we will hold fast in the face of martyrdom.
The fire that brings destruction spoken of in Peter's epistles is pretty disturbing to consider, but I think this firs is intended for the evil unbelievers, not for the believers. When Jesus returns once again with a shout, with the trumpet call, with the voice of an archangel, with a tempest like lightening, with exceeding brightness and manifest glory, we will look up, as He instructs us in Luke 21:28 for our redemption is come. we will be changed (if alive at this time) or resurrrected, if we have died. At that time, we will be glorified and can no longer be harmed by anything that comes upon the earth! Hallelujah!
Adam, I will pray for you as you seek to find out the truth of Scriptures concerning the end times, as I pray that for myself, too.
I plan to believe everything that is plainly and explicitly taught in Scripture concerning the return of Christ and what happens before that, and also not readily embrace ideas that are not.
Brother David has made several comments about God's words being parables.
You have said God's words are often metaphors.
Revelation says his words are symbols.
2 Peter 3:7 But the heavens and earth ....
There are LITERAL heavens and earth; but, they are also metaphors and symbols in a parable.
heaven and earth are MAN, earth being the carnal form of man where deception rules, heaven being the born again man where truth and life rule.
We are the GARDEN OF (eden) GOD where the ONE TREE that bears BOTH the knowledge of GOOD and EVIL is in the MIDST thereof.
Man; made of EARTH (dust), has to be destroyed, and become a creation of Spirit, the new heaven and new earth.
2 Peter 3:7 But the heavens and earth, which are now, by the SAME WORD (that made them earth) are keep in store (since the day or resurrection) reserved unto fire against the day of JUDGEMENT ...
For you and I and all others alive at this given moment; we are being JUDGED by the written word's of God, if you don't believe his words: DEATH and the GRAVE; if you believe HIS WORDS, you become a SON OF GOD.
Christ is THE WORD OF JUDGEMENT, and the FIRE (a metaphor and symbol) that does the JUDGING.
Judges 6:21 And the angel of the Lord (Christ) put forth the end of the staff that was in his hand, and touch the FLESH (dust of the earth) and the unleavened cakes; and there rose up FIRE out of the ROCK (symbolic of Christ) and CONSUMED the FLESH (dust of the earth) and unleavened cakes ......
Christ was the FIRE in the bush in the wilderness, he was the ROCK in the wilderness.
Hebrews 12:29 Our God is a CONSUMING FIRE
Christ is THE WORD
Your being JUDGED NOW BY the WORD and FIRE, and if you will JUDGE YOURSELF NOW; by God's words, you want be judged with the world.
1 Corinthians 11:31 If we would judge ourselves NOW, we should not be judged.
John 12:48 .... the words I have spoken (from Genesis thru Revelation), the same will judge him .....
Please allow me to correct a mistake I made.
I mentioned to you to take
Luke 17:34-37 and Parallel it with Revelation 19:11-18 Focusing on vs 17. On your way to verse 17 notice verrse 14.
Revelation 19:14.
"And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, CLOTHED IN FINE LINEN, WHITE AND CLEAN.
This is also prophesied in Jude 1:14.
These clothed in fine linen is the same group in
Revelation 19:7-8.
"Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
(8) And to her was granted that SHE SHOULD BE ARRAYED IN FINE LINEN, CLEAN AND WHITE: FOR THE FINE LINEN IS THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF SAINTS.
I left out one of the connecting verses. ( Vs 8.)
These are a few of the connecting verses why we believe the Church comes with Christ on his second coming.
Luke 17:37.
Revelation 19:17.
Jude 1:14.
Revelation 19:7-8.
God bless.
I will give you my view and I will extend to vs 37.
vs 36-37 is where the answer is.
"Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, THITHER WILL THE EAGLES BE GATHERED TOGETHER.
Now parallel it with.
Revelation 19:11-18. "focusing on vs 17."
And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
( vs14) And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, CLOTHED IN FINE LINEN, WHITE AND CLEAN.
(Parallels with; Jude 1:14.)
Those clothed in fine linen is the same group in Revelation 19:7.
THIS GROUP IS THE BRIDE OF CHRIST. THE CHURCH!!
15) And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16) And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
17) And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the FOWLS THAT FLY IN THE MIDST OF HEAVEN, COME AND GATHER YOURSELVES TOGETHER unto the supper of the great God; That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
THIS GROUP IS TAKEN FOR JUDGMENT.
This is after the tribulation and the Church comes with him, They were raptured atleast 7 years prior.
Those left goes on into the Millennium. Those taken, Judgment as well in Matthew 24.
God bless.
We have to understand the difference between taken and left.
Sin (unbelief) governs OUR FLESH, the wages of SIN (unbelief) is death, the "GIFT" of belief is eternal LIFE.
So man is either consumed by unbelief, and goes to the grave, to await the second resurrection: or he believes he and Christ were resurrected TOGETHER; becoming ONE NEW CREATION, and will NEVER SEE DEATH, because he has ALREADY DIED on the CROSS with CHRIST.
ONE will be TAKEN in DEATH, and go to the grave: ONE will be LEFT, never to SEE DEATH, dwelling in the presence of GOD.
Luke 20:36 Neither can they DIED ANYMORE (you DIED with Christ): for THEY (the one's LEFT, and will never see the grave) are EQUAL unto the angels (omnipresent, glorified bodies); and are the children of God (God can't die), being the children of (Christ's) RESURRECTION.
Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he who hath PART in the first (Christ's) resurrection, on such the second death hath NO POWER ...
God Bless YOU!
However, someone on this forum shared evidence for another view and it seemed compelling. I will need to research more and find those verses, but there is support for the wicked to be the ones raptured. Romans 8.21.
In this section of Luke 17:32-33 it says to remember Lot's wife and says who ever wants to keep their life will lose it, etc. It is phrased in a way where wicked may be the ones losing their life before Christ followers. Then Jesus appears and those asleep in the grave will rise and meet Jesus in the air, then judgment day before eternal life. That is the sequence of events as I currently understand them based on the scripture evidence I've seen. What I'm uncertain in how it fits its destroying the earth by fire. 2 Peter 3:7. For this to fit, if wicked are destroyed first with fire, it would seem to take a miracle to not hurt the followers, or a selective fire of some kind. God bless.
We can have assurance from the account of Noah and from the passing over of the Israelites so as they were not afflicted with the plagues of Egypt nor the death of the firstborn. We can rest in God knowing how He parted the Red Sea to have the Israelites pass through on dry land and how God delivered the enemies in Canaan into the hands of the Israelites when the nation entered the promised land to possess all it as God promised (see Joshua 21:43) God fulfilled all fo the promised He had made to the Israelites ( Joshua 23:15)
God is faithful and able to preserve us or rescue us or make us stand in the day of trouble. But we also must remember that our Lord and Paul and Peter said that we will suffer also, be persecuted, arrested, tried legally, and martyred for His Name's sake. Jesus said we would be hated by men just as they hated himself. We should pray for God to prepare us for such hardships that He may allow us to experience. We certainly should pray that we will hold fast in the face of martyrdom.
The fire that brings destruction spoken of in Peter's epistles is pretty disturbing to consider, but I think this firs is intended for the evil unbelievers, not for the believers. When Jesus returns once again with a shout, with the trumpet call, with the voice of an archangel, with a tempest like lightening, with exceeding brightness and manifest glory, we will look up, as He instructs us in Luke 21:28 for our redemption is come. we will be changed (if alive at this time) or resurrrected, if we have died. At that time, we will be glorified and can no longer be harmed by anything that comes upon the earth! Hallelujah!
Adam, I will pray for you as you seek to find out the truth of Scriptures concerning the end times, as I pray that for myself, too.
I plan to believe everything that is plainly and explicitly taught in Scripture concerning the return of Christ and what happens before that, and also not readily embrace ideas that are not.
2 Peter 3:7
Brother David has made several comments about God's words being parables.
You have said God's words are often metaphors.
Revelation says his words are symbols.
2 Peter 3:7 But the heavens and earth ....
There are LITERAL heavens and earth; but, they are also metaphors and symbols in a parable.
heaven and earth are MAN, earth being the carnal form of man where deception rules, heaven being the born again man where truth and life rule.
We are the GARDEN OF (eden) GOD where the ONE TREE that bears BOTH the knowledge of GOOD and EVIL is in the MIDST thereof.
Man; made of EARTH (dust), has to be destroyed, and become a creation of Spirit, the new heaven and new earth.
2 Peter 3:7 But the heavens and earth, which are now, by the SAME WORD (that made them earth) are keep in store (since the day or resurrection) reserved unto fire against the day of JUDGEMENT ...
For you and I and all others alive at this given moment; we are being JUDGED by the written word's of God, if you don't believe his words: DEATH and the GRAVE; if you believe HIS WORDS, you become a SON OF GOD.
Christ is THE WORD OF JUDGEMENT, and the FIRE (a metaphor and symbol) that does the JUDGING.
Judges 6:21 And the angel of the Lord (Christ) put forth the end of the staff that was in his hand, and touch the FLESH (dust of the earth) and the unleavened cakes; and there rose up FIRE out of the ROCK (symbolic of Christ) and CONSUMED the FLESH (dust of the earth) and unleavened cakes ......
Christ was the FIRE in the bush in the wilderness, he was the ROCK in the wilderness.
Hebrews 12:29 Our God is a CONSUMING FIRE
Christ is THE WORD
Your being JUDGED NOW BY the WORD and FIRE, and if you will JUDGE YOURSELF NOW; by God's words, you want be judged with the world.
1 Corinthians 11:31 If we would judge ourselves NOW, we should not be judged.
John 12:48 .... the words I have spoken (from Genesis thru Revelation), the same will judge him .....
God Bless YOU!
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