Bible Discussion Thread

Did Jesus ever warn the bad shepherd who misleads his flock, similar to Jeremiah 23: 1-4

Matthew chapter 23 is a very powerful indictment against the religious leaders in Jesus's day . Any of us , who put ourselves in the position of any kind of biblical instructor should also be taking note of this chapter and applying Christ's warnings , to ourselves. The Word of God is the most precious thing , we all must handle it very carefully as we shall answer to our Heavenly Father .

Hi Michael.

OOPS I sent that off by mistake.

I wasn't done.

Jeremiah 22 is dealing these Kings and rulers. He warned them about the way they were getting rich and not feeding the flock.

Verses 13-17 we have a Warning about Jehoiakim

"Woe unto him that buildeth his house by unrighteousness, and his chambers by wrong; that useth his neighbour's service without wages, and giveth him not for his work;

That saith, I will build me a wide house and large chambers, and cutteth him out windows; and it is cieled with cedar, and painted with vermilion.

Shalt thou reign, because thou closest thyself in cedar? did not thy father eat and drink, and do judgment and justice, and then it was well with him?"

He judged the cause of the poor and needy; then it was well with him: was not this to know me? saith the LORD.

But thine eyes and thine heart are not but for thy covetousness, and for to shed innocent blood, and for oppression, and for violence, to do it.

Jeremiah 23:1-2 Picks back up on that criticism.

Jeremiah 23:3-7 tells that there is better days ahead.

In the Millennium kingdom the Lord "The Chief Shepherd" and "king of kings" will set on the throne and rule his kingdom.

I concur with Gigi you see Christ rebuttal of the rulers this in Matthew 23 and Luke 11:37-54. and you'll find more of what Christ has to say about the Kingdom in Matthew 13.

God bless

If we look at condemnation such as Zechariah 11:17 we see how the "worthless shepherd" or the Antichrist will be allowed to have authority in the future end times. This is equivalent to the "son of perdition" which stood for both Judas Iscariot and the coming Antichrist. Thus; those who would be part of the establishment and hierarchy of false religion at some point will be found to be reprobate ( Matt. 7:16). Fruits; therefore are the result of either a bad seed or heart condition or that of good seed producing good fruit.

When we look at passages such as Luke 19:8 with Zaccheus; certainly someone who was a corrupt tax collector or just happened to have a job that was despised could reform their ways; such as a teacher who is caught up in error and corrected by His brother ( James 5:19). This speaks of individuals who are granted repentance and come to realize Christ as Lord and Savior. This differentiates Christ's preaching of a general call nature and the parables hiding truth from the "wise" and revealing it to "babes" (see Matt. 11:25 as an example). In the general call we see a railing accusation against Pharisees and the lawyers of the time as we see in Matthew 23. We must remember that God can "choose their delusions" ( Isaiah 66:4) so that at some point men's hearts can be hardened beyond hope. Only the Lord knows what point that is; as well as those who are His children.

As to "shepherds" or leaders of any sort; of course there is harsher judgment for them than others. We see this with the denouncement of those who are "sons of hell" themselves and the resulting disciples who are twice as bad ( Matthew 23:15).

Teachers of Gospel truth also have this principle ( James 3:1). The case of a believer vs a non believer separates the results; of course from that of hellfire and suffering loss of reward. Nonetheless; the principle stands.

Richard, hello again 1 John 2:18 speaks that the antichrist shall come and that many antichrists have come in his day. So, here is the only place in Scripture that uses the term, whether it means one person in particular, the son of perdition, man of sin, or if it is refers to one who has the antichrist spirit of denying Jesus came in the flesh, as John speaks of in his letters.

So, I stand corrected.

Hello Richard, I agree with you here.

Leaders are to have good judgment, kind hearts, looking after the good of those they oversee, not harsh, not selfish or self serving. This is true in any time of history in any group of people, for it is God's perfect will and applicable to all.

When referring to the "man of sin" spoken of in 2 Thessalonians 2, he is also called the son of perdition, the Wicked. So for me, I have a check in my spirit about calling him the Antichrist, since this name is not given to him specifically in Scripture. We can attach the name Antichrist to him, if we wish, but we should recognize that this is a name superimposed on Scripture, unless you or someone else can give me a Scripture that calls him Antichrist specifically.

This is a small matter, but for me, I wish to keep myself true to the words of Scripture. I may not have always done this, but at this time, this check in my spirit is something I should follow.

As always, I appreciate your commentary greatly. It makes me think seriously about the portion of Scripture you highlight. I may not concur with all you say, but I respect what you have to say and check it out Scripturally as much as I am able.

Blessings, I am off to make soup today. It is kind of that sort of weather here, rainy and cloudy. We had our first wild bunny of the season sitting in our back yard yesterday. Pretty plump, so probably pregnant. This is a sign from nature that Spring is almost here, along with the return of the robins and geese. I am looking forward to spring and summer. My hand has healed so well from surgery and is ready for some good work that strengthens my grasp and grip. Gardening does that. So, WooHoo! Eagar to get in the dirt soon.

Michael Jer 23 is a prophecy written for the times we live in today, in many verses in that chapter the Lord speaks of people not keeping, not teaching, and even stealing and changing His Words. And the LORD is against these prophets in whom He says prophesy lies, and they are prophets of the deceit of their own heart. Jer 23:16 says they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the LORD. Jer 23:36 Tells us they (perverted) the words of the living God. The word (perverted) is #2015; it means to change. ALL modern version Bibles have (changed) the Words of the living God!

Hi Michael.

Jeremiah 22 is dealing these Kings and rulers. He warned them about the way they were getting rich and not feeding the flock.

"Woe unto him that buildeth his house by unrighteousness, and his chambers by wrong; that useth his neighbour's service without wages, and giveth him not for his work;

That saith, I will build me a wide house and large chambers, and cutteth him out windows; and it is cieled with cedar, and painted with vermilion.

Shalt thou reign, because thou closest thyself in cedar? did not thy father eat and drink, and do judgment and justice, and then it was well with him?

Michael Warner:

God's Word is full if warnings about the teachings and work's of man.

The only TRUE pastor of the sheep is Christ.

THE WAY is Christ.

We have to UNDERSTAND and BELIEVE what Christ's resurrection ACCOMPLISHED.

YOU DIED on the cross with Christ.

YOU were resurrected with Christ; A NEW CREATION, there was ONLY ONE BODY that was resurrected 2000 years AGO, that BODY was Christ, you SHARED that resurrection with Christ, YOU ALSO became the BODY of Christ.

1 Corinthians 12:27 .... You are the body of Christ .....

Colossians 1:27 ..... this MYSTERY (of the resurrection) .....Christ IN YOU ......

You and Christ became ONE at that resurrection, Christ is now the LIFE in YOU: your HIS BODY.

He is the SHEPHERD of YOUR BODY your body does what the shepherd wants it to do, because Christ is the LIFE in YOU.

Philippians 2:13 For it is GOD that worketh in you (the new creation) both TO WILL and TO DO his good pleasure.

This truth has to become REAL in YOU; as this TRUTH becomes REAL TO YOU, you WILL SEE with different eyes.

Psalms 116:15 Precious in the sight of the LORD is the DEATH of his saints.

You have to BELIEVE God' s word: you DIED: only CHRIST exist, you share that by BEING HIS BODY.

Until then, you body is being lead by by whats described in Jeremiah 23:1-4

1 Timothy 6:16 Christ ONLY hath IMMORTALIY, dwelling in the light ....

1 Corinthians 15 ... this mortal (YOU) shall PUT ON IMMORALITY ..... death is swallowed up in VICTORY .....

You caught up, raptured, translated, into THE PRESENCE of GOD, to forever be the IMAGE of CHRIST, a SON OF GOD.

God Bless YOU!

Michael,

The "shepherds" of Jesus' day were the priests, scribes, Pharisees, Sadducees, and the Sanhedrin, all religious leaders for the Jews in Jerusalem.

Jesus denounced them strongly again and again in his interactions with them saying they were leading these people sinfully. You can read of this in Matthew 23. Luke 11:37-54.