Bible Discussion Thread

Does Eschatology matter? Many people who believe in the pre-tribulation rapture think its not a Salvation issue. But is that true? You be the judge! In ( 2 Thessalonians 3:4) We are told that the antichrist exalts himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. Then in ( 2 Cor 11:13-15) v14 Tells us "And no marvel; for Satan himself is (transformed) into an angel of light. The word (transformed) is #3345; it means to transfigure or disguise. So Satan will be disguised as an angel of light, or as Jesus Christ. (Do you think those who expect Jesus Christ to rapture them (before) the tribulation will be deceived by this disguise? I would say there's a really good chance according to Scripture that they will be deceived) ( 2 Thessalonians 2:3) Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a (falling) away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition. (This verse tells us to not be deceived by any means, for that day shall not come, (What day?) V1 Tells us what day? "the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him". That day shall not come, except there come a (falling) away first. The word (falling) is #646; it means defection from truth, ["apostasy"] forsake, divorce, (writing of) divorcement. The (apostasy) is a writing of divorcement, so it would have to be speaking of True Believers in Jesus Christ who will fall away and receive a writing of divorcement before that day, which is "the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and our gathering together unto him. That divorcement would be for worshipping another god! I've been told by someone on this site that Eschatology doesn't matter. According to Scripture it would seem that it is very, very important. I pray this post gets shown for all to see this truth. So that all who see this can be the judge of whether it matters? TRUTH MATTERS! Blessings.

Hello again, Jimbob,

We are told by Jesus in Matt. 7:15 to watch out for false prophets.

And 1 Tim. 4:16 we are exhorted by Paul to watch our life and doctrine closely.

Is it ever safe to believe a false doctrine? Will a false doctrine not prove to hurt us in some way? Can believing a false doctrine lead us astray or into further deception? I would say that believing what is false doctrine is always harmful to believers. That is why we are so warned by our Lord and Paul and the other Epistle writers.

So, while some will say that views on eschatology do not affect our salvation, you and I beg to differ with this idea. Also, agreeing to disagree is somewhat normative in today's circles. But for me, if some belief is proven false by Scripture, as you and I have done so concerning the pre-trib rapture in recent exchanges, we should challenge people to believe what Scripture clearly, plainly, and explicitly teaches and forsake beliefs that one "thinks" Scripture supports through implication, presumption, or by wishful interpretation.

I, for one, have had to change my beliefs on topics over the years when what Scripture clearly teaches shows me that my belief is wrong. All of us have needed to do this. For this, I am so thankful we have the Scriptures in hand in our own language to learn from what God has chosen to reveal to us. Being humble and submissive to the Holy Spirit when He shows us truth in the Word is how we all should desire to be.

So, we can always pray for God to show us the truth of His Word in areas where we are believing falsely and we can pray for others who are believing false doctrines. This is one way we can build one another up in the most holy faith. The other way is to bring forth Scripture that refutes false doctrines in order that those who believe such doctrines will submit to the truth of God's Word. may God be merciful to all of us who exchange here and may He help us to speak the truth in love on every occasion.

GiGi thank you for your response. It really means a lot to have someone else in this group who sees the truth in this and is willing to speak up for that truth, and post that truth. Even though it seems we are living in a world where ( 2 Thessalonians 2:11) is already be fulfilled. If one is shown the truth today in Scripture and they don't see that truth, are those people only being deceived, or are they deceiving others with the intent to deceive them? We honestly have no way to know that today as another verse you posted clearly says, ( Matthew 7:14) Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are (ravening) wolves. The word (ravening) is #727; from 726; it means rapacious, extortion, (726) shows us the pre-trib rapture word (harpazo) it means to seize, catch (away, up) pluck, pull, take (by force) It seems very telling to me that the verse talking about false prophets who come in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravening wolves is connected to the pre-trib rapture word in Greek (harpazo) I like the verse you posted, ( 1 Tim 4:16) I also like ( 2 Tim 4:2-4) v2 Tells us to "Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and doctrine". v4 "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine;." It would seem all those verses are being fulfilled now, or being played out for this time period today. You are right again GiGi, we should speak the truth in love, and pray for those who do not see the truth, or will not receive the truth. Stay Strong in your Faith, and in the Truth of the Word of God! God Bless you GiGi. And again I truly thank for your response to this post.

Jimbob,

And thank you, too.

I try to remember that there are many times more people reading our posts on here than just those who enter into the discussion by posting. So, we do our best to present what we have found to be true from Scriptures. Others also do the same. This does not mean that all interpretations are equally true, valid, logical, nor reasonable. But I do think that we are all sincere when we post.

We must leave the results of our discussions up to the workings of the Holy Spirit. I have read many articles of people who began as a dispensationalist as a youth and through sincere searching of the Word have moved away from dispensationalism and the pre-trib rapture as a result. There are most likely those who have moved in the reverse order.

One thing I try to be sure of is that I am not discussing such matters to "win" the disagreement or to stamp down anyone else's viewpoint. This does not mean we do not speak our views strongly. But it does mean that our motivation is to truly represent what God has revealed in Scripture for the love of truth and for the love of others reading our posts.

It is not always easy to maintain a "cool" head in such discussions, but it is possible, with practice. I do try to stay on topic and not try to disparage those who disagree with me. I find that, especially with the topic of dispensationalism and pre-trib rapture that I am often disparaged and attempts are made to discredit me. And I will speak up about this because we, as brethren should be treating one another better than that. And I do try to speak honestly without retaliating speech. I wish I could say I am 100% on this, but we all do fail. So, we should be understanding of others when they fail, too. We are to love one another, whether we agree or not.

Jimbob, I know we do not agree on every matter either, but it has been an honor to work with you on presenting what we believe is biblical evidence about the error of the pre-trib rapture.

GiGi You are very wise. We do all fail at times but if Scripture is provided which proves something, or someone to be wrong in what they believe in, then its hard to be understanding and say someone failed, for many people I think pride stands in the way of them changing anything about what they believe. But I pray maybe some have seen that truth and that its working in them right now. Many people are learning a lot in this group from you GiGi. including me. It would not be the same if you were not in it. And I will continue to practice keeping a "cool" head during discussions, Thank you for that. The honour is mine GiGi. God Bless you.

Thanks again Jimbob,

Have a good night's sleep. I am sleepy, so hopefully I will get to sleep quickly. Please pray that I do since I do have trouble getting to sleep most nights. I appreciate that.

Jimbob, I agree with you.

Paul is clear in 2 Thessalonians 2 that there will be a great apostasy WITHIN THE CHURCH when believers will desert the faith or be deceived by the workings of Satan.

Perhaps many who believer the Pre-Trib rapture deception will be strong enough to stand against the deception of the Antichrist and endure the sufferings , persecution, and martyrdom of the Tribulation without losing faith or denouncing Christ. But Id do think that many who do think that they will be raptured prior to the Tribulation will indeed be deceived and turn from faith, as Paul says in this Scripture citation. Some are still new believers and/or are not very robust or mature in their faith.

The possibility of many falling away when Tribulation comes because they expected to be raptured will manifest in the day of trouble. So, yes, it is a salvation issue if people are deceived into thinking they will be spared from the Tribulation and Antichrist through a pre-trib rapture and then fall away when they are not raptured, finding themselves in the Tribulation times and under the deception of the Antichrist or the temptation to acquiesce by taking the mark to preserve their own lives. This could also happen to those who do not believe in the pre-trib rapture as well.

This is why we are warned by Jesus to be watchful, prayerful, prepared, and faithful to endure to the very end.

Matt. 10:22 Matt. 24:13 Matt. 26:41 Mark 13:35