Is ( Mt 24) prophecy for today, or just for the Jews? First we look at ( Mt 24:3) The question to Jesus was "Tell us when shall these things be? and what shall be (THE SIGN) (OF THY COMING), and of the end of the world"? (THE SIGN) (OF THY COMING)? In ( Mt 24:29-31) v30 Tells us "And then shall appear (THE SIGN) of the Son of man in heaven" this verse also tells us "and they shall see the Son of man ((coming in the clouds)) of heaven with power and great glory". v30 is (THE SIGN) (OF HIS COMING) Jesus is answering their question. Now a look at ( 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17) v15 Tells us "that we which are alive and remain unto (THE COMING OF THE LORD) shall not prevent them which are asleep" v16 Tells us "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout" v17 Tells us "Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air;" (This is the COMING that the disciples asked Him about in ( Mt 24:3) The #1 pre-tribulation rapture verse is very clearly connected to ( Mt 24:29-31) in many ways. ( Mt 24:30) (1) The coming of the Son of man (2) Coming in the clouds (3) ( Mt 24:31) there's a sound of a trumpet (4) There is a gathering together. Now we look at ( 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17) (1) v15 The coming of the Lord, v16 The Lord descends from heaven (2) v17 We meet the Lord in the clouds (3) v16 with the trump of God (4) v17 caught up together, a gathering. These are telling us of the same event which is Jesus Christ, (the Son of man) (coming in the clouds) to (gather together) His elect, the church. ( Mt 24:39-41) v39 Tells us "so shall also the (coming of the Son of man be)" (So shall also) So when the Son of man comes v40 Tells us "Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left" The ones who are taken are those (gathered together to meet the Lord in the air, in the clouds) at His coming. ( Mt 24:29) Immediately after the tribulation! Mt.24 is prophecy for all in the Lastdays. Blessings.
GiGi You also have made very good points in your comment. If we take the Word of God as it is written as Truth then the Bible is crystal clear the coming of the Lord is after the tribulation. And you are right again GiGi, we only want to show the Truth in Scripture, not in any way are we trying to start an argument. There are many parts of Scripture that are taken out of context to get the belief of pre-trib. One of those is to say Mt 24 is only for the Jews. One is saying ( Mt 24:29-31) is not Jesus coming in the clouds to gather together the church. Another is the one taken in ( Mt 24:40-41) is taken for judgment. All of these have been clearly refuted, one would only have to study our posts very little to see that. This is a very important subject in the Lastdays prophecies, especially for those who are expecting Jesus Christ to come first, the anti-christ will come first disguised as Christ which would then be a major problem for many pre-trib believers. Many will be deceived and accept the mark of the beast thinking it could not be the mark because Jesus hasn't came back to rapture the church yet. We are living the Lastdays now GiGi, that's why I keep posting on this subject. It is a salvation issue for all those who would be deceived by the anti-christ. As we have posted many times ( 1 Thessalonians 2:1-3) Tells us there will be a falling away before the return of Jesus Christ. The words (falling away) means a "writing of divorcement" meaning it is true believers in Jesus Christ who fall away. ( Rev 19:20)
Tells us people will be deceived into receiving the mark of the beast. Truth matters, God Bless.
Yes, we wish to speak clarity into this topic because of the reasons you stated. We do not want anyone to be deceived by the "bright shining one" who wants to pass Himself off as our Lord, nor to lose faith because they find themselves in the Tribulation when they we so sure they would be raptured before the Tribulation. Nor do we want people to be weak-minded instead of strong and bold in this time to fight the good fight of faith when things get very difficult and dangerous.
These are the reasons we post about this subject. For me, what happens in the millenium or if there is even not a future millennium as amillennialists believe is not as crucial as the need to uphold what Scripture says about Jesus' second coming. After He comes, we will all be resurrected/changed and glorified. To me, whatever Jesus does after His return is fine with me as it will all be right and good. But between now and His coming, we should believe what the Scriptures plainly teach for us to do and believe for today and for that day when He comes again in power and glory to being and end to sinfulness and take us all unto Himself being made immortal, incorruptible, righteous, and perfectly fit for eternal life with Jesus, the Father, and the Holy Spirit.
I would add that if Matt. 24 was only for the Jews and that time of history, then when did Jesus come on the clouds? If it is only for the Jews at the end of history, why does Jesus say that He is coming for His elect, which believers are called in Paul's epistles again and again.? ( 2 Tim. 2:10; Titus 1:1; and Peter in 1Pet. 1:1; 2 Pet.1:10 for example)
Along with the many,, many NT verses that state that the dead are raised on the Last Day, then it is then that Jesus returns and only then,
For me, I know that what the Scriptures actually say is true, not what people infer based on approaching Scripture with presuppositions that is evident in the teachings of Darby, Scofield, Chafer, Ryrie, Walvoord, and other leaders of dispensationalism who spread this teaching far and wide, leading many to read into the Scriptures a pre-trib rapture that involves a secret semi-coming of Jesus and then another coming of Jesus at the end of the tribulation.
Scripture consistently speaks of Jesus' second and final coming and does not specify a 2 stage coming in any way.
You and I do not post about this to engage others in an argument, but we do so to encourage those who believe in the pre-trib rapture to re-examine Scriptures without the lens of dispensationalism (which is an artificial theological method of interpretation).
Through the years when I have read and considered passages that speak of Jesus' second coming, I had not ever heard of dispensational thinking nor covenant thinking, nor premillennial, postmillennial, or amillennial teaching. I was studying the Scriptures from the point of believing what was clearly, actually, and explicitly stated without adding any inferences.
But now that I have recently become aware of the various schools of though on this topic, I have tried to understand each of their methodology, reasoning, and Scriptural defense of their understanding of the second coming. Still learning as for now.
Tells us people will be deceived into receiving the mark of the beast. Truth matters, God Bless.
Yes, we wish to speak clarity into this topic because of the reasons you stated. We do not want anyone to be deceived by the "bright shining one" who wants to pass Himself off as our Lord, nor to lose faith because they find themselves in the Tribulation when they we so sure they would be raptured before the Tribulation. Nor do we want people to be weak-minded instead of strong and bold in this time to fight the good fight of faith when things get very difficult and dangerous.
These are the reasons we post about this subject. For me, what happens in the millenium or if there is even not a future millennium as amillennialists believe is not as crucial as the need to uphold what Scripture says about Jesus' second coming. After He comes, we will all be resurrected/changed and glorified. To me, whatever Jesus does after His return is fine with me as it will all be right and good. But between now and His coming, we should believe what the Scriptures plainly teach for us to do and believe for today and for that day when He comes again in power and glory to being and end to sinfulness and take us all unto Himself being made immortal, incorruptible, righteous, and perfectly fit for eternal life with Jesus, the Father, and the Holy Spirit.
I would add that if Matt. 24 was only for the Jews and that time of history, then when did Jesus come on the clouds? If it is only for the Jews at the end of history, why does Jesus say that He is coming for His elect, which believers are called in Paul's epistles again and again.? ( 2 Tim. 2:10; Titus 1:1; and Peter in 1Pet. 1:1; 2 Pet.1:10 for example)
Along with the many,, many NT verses that state that the dead are raised on the Last Day, then it is then that Jesus returns and only then,
For me, I know that what the Scriptures actually say is true, not what people infer based on approaching Scripture with presuppositions that is evident in the teachings of Darby, Scofield, Chafer, Ryrie, Walvoord, and other leaders of dispensationalism who spread this teaching far and wide, leading many to read into the Scriptures a pre-trib rapture that involves a secret semi-coming of Jesus and then another coming of Jesus at the end of the tribulation.
Scripture consistently speaks of Jesus' second and final coming and does not specify a 2 stage coming in any way.
You and I do not post about this to engage others in an argument, but we do so to encourage those who believe in the pre-trib rapture to re-examine Scriptures without the lens of dispensationalism (which is an artificial theological method of interpretation).
Through the years when I have read and considered passages that speak of Jesus' second coming, I had not ever heard of dispensational thinking nor covenant thinking, nor premillennial, postmillennial, or amillennial teaching. I was studying the Scriptures from the point of believing what was clearly, actually, and explicitly stated without adding any inferences.
But now that I have recently become aware of the various schools of though on this topic, I have tried to understand each of their methodology, reasoning, and Scriptural defense of their understanding of the second coming. Still learning as for now.
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