Bible Discussion Thread

One thing that has helped me so much in understanding a verse or passage is to identify it's place on the biblical time line. The bible is a historical account of God's plan from first to last. For example Acts 2:23 tells us Jesus was delivered by the determined counsel and foreknowledge of God to be delivered to wicked hands and crucified. In other words, it was done on purpose at the time decided by in advance by a heavenly council and God. Daniel was told the very day Jesus would ride into Jerusalem.

What I have done to help me avoid getting mixing up is to draw a simple time line with my pencil so I know what is going on at the place I am reading. My time line begins on the left with creation ( Gen 1:1) and ends on the right with the creation of the new heaven in Revelation. Abraham was called about 2000 BC, ( Gen 12) then Moses let the children of Jacob (Abraham's descendants) out of Egypt around 1400 BC and and after that the first book in the bible was written at at Mt. Sinai to whom? written by whom? why? ( 2 Tim 3:16). Was every group of people who learned of that verse act act the same way? Why or why not? Have fun.

The father and the son is not "Gods"

The father and the son "is" God.

Ephesians 4:6.

One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, AND IN YOU ALL.

God being in us refers to the Holyspirit. ( That doesn't make us God's.

Being one with God also doesn't make us God.

There is one body, and one Spirit, EVEN AS YE ARE CALLED IN ONE HOPE of your calling;

( THAT'S HOW WE'RE ONE WITH GOD)

One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

We're one with God.

We're not Gods.

Brother SSpencer:

Jesus himself says he has a God and has a Father.

Ephesians 4:6 ...and Father of ALL, even Jesus.

2 Corinthians 11:31 The GOD and Father of Jesus Christ .....

Ephesians 1:3 ...the GOD and Father of Jesus Christ ...

1 Peter 1:3 ...the God and Father of Jesus Christ ..

If Jesus has a God, and Jesus is a God, then there are 2 Gods, not 1.

There One because Christ is the BODY of HIS GOD.

If Jesus was the same God, as God, he wouldn't have to turn the kingdom back to the God who gave it to him.

Psalms 22:1 My God, MY God, why has thou forsaken me ...

Mark 15:34 .... My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me.

Was Christ crying out to himself.

Did not Christ, a God, have to be raise by the Spirit of God?

Christ himself said, I of myself can do nothing .....

The words are my Father's words

If he were the same God, as his God, he could speak his on words.

We have all been deceived, just like Revelation says, by mans teachings, and it's hard to repent from those teachings and believe what God says.

God bless you.

Agreed S. Spencer

The only use I have for a time line is the dates that are inferred or given in the Word. I would never want any person to think

anyone has any kind of control of God's time line for doing whatever He wants. His creation took 6 days and He rested on the seventh. That was His choice.

I use a sheet of paper, usually 8.5 x 11" a pencil and a ruler. Make a line. Mark it off in the middle, that's the cross, about 4000 years after creation. Mark off 1001, then 2000 etc for starters for the Old Testament. Where does Abram go? About 2000 BC. for example. Then Moses around 1500 BC. OK. Now suppose I am wondering how God has run things. Who is in charge? God is. He created everything and appointed Adam to run things. God gave directions. Adam didn't obey and is punished but runs things still. Then the tower of babel - people punished but are still in charge. Noah and the flood - the people given laws, Noah was to lead. Later Moses was chosen to lead a chosen people and put the 613 laws into writing with results for not obeying. God's presence was there to enforce the laws.

This is so brief I hope it makes sense. As I read I note who God is dealing with, looking to see how is He doing it. What is He doing that is different at each point in time? How has God punished each time people rebelled? Can I get a better picture of God's plan for preparing a people to be priests in His future kingdom? When did keeping the Law stop being a requirement, or did it? This is something I never expect to finish doing. I can always learn more. Did I see something this time I missed last time?

Max

It's good to mix things up a bit and do things differently , we are bound to see something new when we look at things from a slightly different angle thanks .

Jerman:

In the first part of Genesis the creation is a prophecy of the new heaven and new earth in Revelation.

Adam was put in a deep sleep; the word uses sleep as death, so Adam DIED and God took a rib; a bone, from Adam and made a WOMAN, the same woman in Revelation 12, we became the flesh of his flesh and bone of his bone.

Genesis 5:2 Male and female created (by the resurrection and NEW CREATION) he them; and blessed them, and called their NAME ADAM (we are baptised in his name), in the day they were created.

The resurrection made all things NEW; the new heaven and the new earth, ONE BODY arose, ONE SPIRIT gave that BODY LIFE we are all that NEW BODY and LIVE by that ONE SPIRIT.

John 17:21 That they (the NEW creation) may be ONE; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they (the NEW creation) may be ONE, as we are ONE.

All this was done before the foundations of the world.

You can't put a time line; God is eternal, no beginning and no end, the WORD always was; you ALWAYS were, you just had no KNOWLEDGE, of your being ONE with the WORD, OUR time in the flesh is to bring us to TRUTH, we are ONE with our GOD.

He is the LIGHT; the SUN, were are the MOON, that reflects that LIGHT.

Look at Genesis with the mind of Christ; remember GOD'S WORD, seeing they SEE NOT.

You can't use eyes of flesh.

God bless you.

Donna Stephens, aka Ruby Lea Read aka Earl Bowman. Whichever you truly are, your style and theology give away that one person is behind these post, I think.

So, I will ask you to let me know, Donna, are you also Ruby Lea Read and/or Earl Bowman? It would be good to know.

OK Earl, since you have not correctly identified yourself as requested in my post ( and also in the past) then your refusal to answer to correct me indicated tha you are indeed Earl Bowman. You have gone by many names here: ELB, Ruby Lea Read, and now Donna Stephens, and a few others; I think Preacher Man or Prophecy or something similar. The problem with posting under multiple names is what I (and a few others) feel is a deceptive way to make it appear that others on this site hold to the same type of doctrines as you have promulgated in the past and repeated again and again under whatever name you come up with.

We do not know why you do this, perhaps you could explain. But for me (and others) we cannot agree with some of the doctrines you speak to often here: universal salvation of any and everyone regardless of true faith in Jesus or not; that we become gods; and that all people will be given a chance to accept Jesus after death.

From here on out, I will be calling you Earl, for that is who I truly think you are by this name posted in the past for a long length of time. Your other posting names have been each short lived. I wonder why?

I think I get what you are saying . Adams wife came from his rib and Christ was wounded in his rib cage for us , John Ch 19 verse 34 and 1st John Ch 5 verse 5-8 . The first Adam and the last , both got there wives from their own body .

A very unique display of theology you have there Donna Stephens.

?

Brother SSpencer:

I read your comments; I know you believe salvation is a gift of God, by the grace and mercy of God.

If it's a gift; then all the WORKS have to be the works of God, otherwise man would contribute to salvation.

Philippians 1:29 For unto you it IS GIVE (gifted) in the behalf of Christ, not only to BELIEVE on him (the WORD) ...

Our believing is the work of God, we don't even contribute that to our salvation.

We were resurrected with the FAITH of Christ, a gift, not our doings.

God bless your, my brother in Christ.

Thanks and I agree with what you on It's Christ who is our gift.

However I was commenting on your "unique display" or style, not theology. Your display is familiar.

I've been away for a couple of weeks.

If my memory serve me correctly there used to be a Donna Stephen's a few years ago that visited the site briefly but I don't believe that's you.

Let me ask you; Are you saying salvation is universal whether one accepts that gift or not?

Brother SSpencer:

I quoted you scripture.

You believe: because God CAUSES you to believe.

His WORKS.

He doesn't cause everyone to believe at the same time.

Paul didn't believe until God caused him to believe.

Everything has an APPOINTED TIME; it the works of God, his timetable.

He chose Jacob; and not Esau, before they were ever conceived.

Hebrews 11:20 By faith (by the spirit of Christ) Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau, concerning THINGS TO COME.

Jacob; the last, was given dominion over the first.

Genesis 27:37

The first born of flesh is not always the first born of spirit.

Matthew 19:30 ... The first shall be last and the last first ....

After the second resurrection, when Esau stands in his former estate, his flesh, he will be caused to believe and the yoke will be broken from his neck.

Genesis 27:40

All things were maded new by Christ resurrection, but all things have an appoint time to come to TRUTH.

Romans 9:21 Hath not the potter POWER over the clay, of the same lump, to make one a vessel of HONOUR, and the other a vessel of DISHONOUR?

Daniel 4:35 And all the inhabitants of the world are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth, and NONE can stay his hand, or say unto him, what doest thou?

Jeremiah 18:4 And the vessel he made of clay was MARRED in the potter's hand, so he MADE it again ....

Psalms 104:30 Thou sendest forth thy spirit (when he chooses to do so), they are CREATED and thou renewest the face of the earth.

Ecclesiastes 3:1 To everything there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven

Psalms 123:2 ...so our eyes wait upon the lord, UNTIL he have mercy upon us ....

NOT YET are ALL THINGS put under him; BUT, when they are, God will be ALL IN ALL.

God Bless you, my brother in Christ.

Is this Earl Bowman?

If so does God use the means of deception to get his message across? Or does he use all aspects of truth?

If God is IN you and God cannot lie, Would he use any means of deception to carry out his truth?

Proverbs 12:17-22.

My real name isn't Jema , does that matter ? I'm nervous on the web so never give my real name , heard a few horror stories about cyber bullying and stalking . No one I know uses their real name , not women anyway , don't know about the guys . Does it matter ? God knows who we all are and He is going to give us all new names :) .

Hi Jema.

I agree, there's nothing wrong with choosing not to use your real name for various reasons such as cyber bullying and stalking ect..

However that is not the issue here.

Here we have one that stood in the way of the Gospel message that used his name for years until his attempts and false doctrine was found to be faulty.

Then he and others like him decided to start using several different names.

One of the key components to this doctrine they espoused is an attack on John 3:16.

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

SALVATION.

What are we saved from?

The consequences of sin. Gods wrath.

What did it cost God to display the love he have for the world?

His son.

This means nothing if there's no consequences to sin!

If salvation is universal and we all become gods in the end whether we believe or not, Whether we repent or not,

That's exactly the message an unrepentant world wants to here.

It also the approach Satan had when he approached Eve in the garden. "You shall not surely die"

Paul said we should examine ourselves how do we examine ourselves if there's no right or wrong.

Vladimir Putin and everyone like him will be rewarded with eternal life with God when it's said and done.

God display of Love when he slew his son was at best a mistake.

And God taking out a people for himself a joke.

Yes Jema, it does matter when you constantly change your name to display that.

God bless.

I'm sorry , there must be things going on on here that I'm not aware of . I do know that there are a lot of different Christian denominations and that they do all differ slightly , shouldn't this site reflect that and be a place where we can all share our beliefs and maybe learn from each other ? That's why I read this site , in the hope I will learn something . Is this site for only one denomination ? I've read others say similar things to what Donna says . No one can learn anything if we stifle debate . I like that we all have different things to say . I hope I haven't offended you .

Hi Jema.

You haven't offended me at all and you're right we are to learn from one another but not loose sight of Ephesians 4:5.

There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

God gave us Christ and we are baptized into Christ.

We function as one body, Scripture tells us how we are expected to function in the body.

It's the working power of the Holyspirit that causes that oneness, We are to minister God's truth to a lost world.

He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad. Mathew 12:30.

However everyone in our midst is not of the body of Christ.

No one is perfect but there are some fundamental teachings that a babe in Christ would hold.

One is there's a heaven and hell.

There's consequences to one who denies Christ.

No one teaches it's ok to sin by the Spirit of God!!

And these heresies is important enough for him to change his name.

That's where the fall began.

And the serpent said unto the woman, YE SHALL NOT SURELY DIE:

"Earl teaches otherwise"

For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ( YE SHALL BE AS GODS,) knowing good and evil. Genesis 3:4-5.

Earl says we are going to be God's.

Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. Mathew 7:13-14

God bless

Brother SSpencer:

It's God; the WORD, that says we will be gods.

Psalms 82:6 I (the WORD) have said, Ye are gods the children of the most high.

Are these God's words.

Just because you don't believe those words doesn't make those words not true.

John 17:22 And the glory that thou gavest me I have given them, that they may be ONE, as we are ONE.

You believe the Father and son are ONE, and they both are Gods, YET you denied that WE being ONE with the Father and son makes us a god also.

I don't understand how you can say these scripture mean something else, they are very plain and straight forward.

God Bless you.

Hi Donna. I care little about your real name; it's the message one conveys that is important to me & particularly so to those who have little or limited knowledge of the Word.

In respect to Psalm 82, this has been much quoted over the past months, even years, & I have during that time shared my understanding, so I'll mention it briefly here. But I would first ask, what is Psalm 82 speaking about - I mean the whole Psalm & not just lifting out a verse & making it mean something?

From verse 1 to verse 8, the message is the indictment of unjust wicked judges (earthly judges). And when we come to an interesting phrase in verse 6, "I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High", one should immediately look to the original language of this verse & the context of the Psalm, only because if we don't do so, then any interpretation one gives might be correct.

But the word used here for "gods" is 'elohim'; and this word is a generic word, which is used of the True God, of gods, of rulers, of judges. Given the message in Psalm 82, 'elohim' certainly can't apply to the True God (which I believe you won't subscribe to either), neither to other gods or an imitation of the true, but to the judges spoken of in the Psalm. And Jesus used this verse in John 10:34, which they would have understood in entirety: that God spoke of judges, and as judges & men, they were "children of the most High". If then Jesus said, "I am the Son of God", why should these accusatory Jewish leaders accuse Jesus for claiming to also be a Son of God? And then Jesus spoke on His relationship to God by the works that He did. But those judges of Psalm 82 were wicked "and would die like men", and these too, to whom Jesus spoke, were of that ilk: judging Jesus wrongly & would stand before their Judge, the Judge of the whole Earth ( Psalm 82:8).

So, I hope you can see Donna, that we cannot use this Psalm to teach that we all become gods nor change any other Scripture to suit us.

Yes Jema:

God has given you a new name.

The resurrection made all things NEW, including your name.

Isaiah 62:2 ...... and thou shall be called by a new name ....

Revelation 2:17 ...and I will give him a white stone, and in that stone a NEW NAME written, which no man knoweth but he that RECEIVETH it.

Revelation 3:12 ...and i will write upon him my new name ...

If you don't YET know your new name, the word of God tells you what that name is.

You were married to Christ by his and your resurrection TOGETHER, the bride takes the name of her husband,

You were baptised in the NAME of Jesus.

There was only ONE BODY raised at the resurrection, and that ONE BODY was given LIFE by ONE SPIRIT.

1 Corinthians 12:27 NOW you are the body of Christ .....

Luke 8:11 .... the SEED is the WORD OF GOD .....

Isaiah 59:21 And this is my covenant with them (YOU), saith the Lord, the words that I (the Father) have put in your (Christ's) mouth, shall not depart out of your (Christ is the WORD, the SEED) mouth, nor out of thy SEED (your born again by the WORD of GOD----you become SEED) nor out of the mouth of thy SEED'S SEED (your are going to bear fruit---SEED), saith the Lord, from henceforth (the resurrection) and forever.

You are the BODY OF CHRIST.

Revelation 19:16 And he had on his vesture and on his thigh (body) written, THE LORD OF LORDS AND THE KING OF KINGS

Revelation 19:13 ...and his name is called THE WORD OF GOD ....

Revelation 1:1 The REVELATION (the revealing) of Jesus Christ .....

Revelation 1:11 .... I AM .... the first (man) ....I AM .... the last (man)

Exodus 3:13 .... I AM that I AM .... I AM hath sent ME to YOU ....

John 17:22 ...and the GLORY that thou has given me, I have GIVEN THEM ....that they may be ONE as we are ONE ...

You were given a NEW NAME, a gift of GOD, by the death and resurrecting of CHRIST.

God bless you.

I think I understand . Romans Ch 8 verse 15 and Galatians Ch 4 verse 6 . Do you believe that Christ will return to earth to set up his Father's Kingdom ? If no , what do you believe is the future of this earth and everyone on it ?

Jema:

Christ has already come the second time, he came when you and he were resurrected TOGETHER.

He is the kingdom of God, you became a joint heir of that kingdom by being resurrected together.

The kingdom is WITHIN YOU"

Colossians 1:27 .... this mystery (of the resurrection) ...... Christ in you .....

Hebrews 9:28 So Christ was ONCE offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the SECOND TIME (as the SPIRIT of TRUTH), without SIN (unbelief) unto SALVATION.

John 14:6 .... I am the way, the TRUTH, and the LIFE (your his body): no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

1 Corinthians 15:54 .... Death is swallowed up in VICTORY ......

1 Corinthians 15:54 .... this mortal SHALL PUT ON immorality .....

1 Timothy 6:16 ... Christ ONLY hath IMMORTALITY, dwelling in the light (of the Father) ....

1 Corinthians 15:49 As we have borne the image of the earthly, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

I Corinthians 15:38 But God giveth it (the new creation in Christ) a body as he has seen fit, and to every SEED his OWN BODY.

God Bless you.

Brother SSpencer;

I quoted scripture, is scripture a false witness, the name at the top of the page is not the one speaking.

Is scripture deception, or is the carnal mind the one that deceives.

John 16:8 And when he (the spirit of truth) is come, he will reprove the world of SIN

Do you believe he (the spirit of truth) will reprove THE WORLD of SIN?

You know he has eternity, is that long enough to reprove the world of sin?

If you believe man has to accept God's gift of his own self, then your don't really believe we are saved by grace and not works of ourself.

Ezekiel 36:27 And I will put my spirit IN YOU and CAUSE YOU to walk in my statues, and ye will keep my judgements, and DO THEM.

One of his statutes is to BELIEVE his words, Now, is he CAUSING you to believe, or is you carnal mind rebelling against his word.

Philippians 2:13 For it is God that WORKETH IN YOU both TO WILL and TO DO his good pleasure.

These are not my words.

Is it sin not to believe his words, is he going to REPROVE the WORLD of SIN?

God Bless you, my brother in Christ.

That's an awesome idea ! I wish I had your patience . I've always wanted to do a time line of the Old Testament , especially between Adam and Noah . My guess is that it would be quite easy to do on a computer , for someone who knows what they are doing . Sadly that someone isn't me :( . Maybe you could do it and then ask the admin on this site if they could make it part of this site so we could all see it . That would be aaaaawesome !

Hi Jema. There are several biblical timeline charts on the Web, though probably the hard copies would be preferable. Study Bibles should also have such a chart as part of their appendix of other helps, as my Ryrie Study Bible has. For me, I've benefitted from them more when considering the various kings of Judah & Israel & the prophets who ministered during their reigns. This helps to appreciate those prophecies much better & seeing them prophesying as another prophet in the other kingdom was uttering simultaneously. Of course, some dates given in the charts must be somewhat fluid, but on the whole, I think a good job of preparing such charts to help us, was done.

Yes , hard copy would be better for me , I'm not great with little things , I like to spread things out on the floor or my wall . I have a big chart showing the genealogy of Jesus on my wall . Thanks for the info though , I will have a look and see if I can find them .