Bible Discussion Thread

Concerning our eternal security.

If I can lose my salvation;

how do I re-save myself if I still abide in this sinful flesh?

If perfection is required; can we ever produce perfection being born of Adam?

Isn't that's why we have to be born Again?

Consider these verses:

1 John 3:9Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1 Corinthians 15:45-51

And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, ( Then you will be perfect)

( neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.)

Being born of this corruptible flesh

If one can lose his salvation, he could never get it back!

I've seen one post saying; no one is saved or knows he's saved until the judgment.

(Isn't that the opposite of faith?)

Consider these verses:

2 Corinthians 1:22

Ephesians4:30.

Ephesians 1:13-14.

In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

God bless.

The root of the idea that one can lose his salvation is a works based salvation.

This suggests the covenant is made by God "and you".

" God would multiply Abraham's seed by one coming whom the Gentiles will trust and when he gets here you have a role to play to initiate it."

This idea puts us in bondage!

Galatians 4:23-28

But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.

Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.

Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

Hebrews 6:17-19.

Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath:

That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:

WHICH HOPE WE HAVE AS AN ANCHOR OF THE SOUL, BOTH SURE AND STEADFAST, and which entereth into that within the veil.

UNCONDITIONAL COVENANT.

Genesis 15:2-12.

God performs the ritual for the covenant alone,.

That makes it unconditional.

The promise has an inheritance.

A city made without hands! Hebrews 11:9-10.

The birth of Issac was the result of Gods faithfulness

Abraham couldn't do anything to void it. Abraham believed God!

We're children of promise and there is nothing we can do to void it.

This promise is given to those who believe.

God bless and good night.

Thank you brother S. Spencer. You've presented some very good & worthy thoughts for all to consider. For the Christian to live a joyous & abundant life, must have at its root the knowledge that their relationship to the Father, His Son & His Holy Spirit are secure because of Who God is, what He has done, & the promises given in His Word.

For a believer to remain unsure of his salvation, trying his best to obey ALL the 'commandments' (not just found in the Ten), would to my mind, be a very fearful position to be in. Unfortunately, I think people have focussed on Church teaching & Christian behavior to determine that the 'eternal security of believers' is impossible because of the possibility of them falling away & ultimately rejecting Christ. Rather than consider that God makes no mistakes, that 'all which God hath given His Son, he should lose none of them' ( John 6:37,39). They fail to take into account that the Spirit's sealing (as you quoted from 2 Corinthians & Ephesians), is not a haphazard work dependent on the whims & fancies of the Christian - it is a permanent work of security, giving the believer the joy & power to live this Christ-separated, Christ-centered life.

And then the question that comes to mind: for those who are uncertain that their salvation is secure & whether they will stand confident at the Bema Seat Judgement, how much faith & obedience will it take to assure them of their acceptance? One may never be obedient enough or good enough if resting on their strivings to please the Lord. Does one then just give up & live carelessly (as the 'once saved always saved' are often categorized as)? As I mentioned elsewhere, I think that believers are lacking knowledge of the mighty working of the Holy Spirit in a believer's life, seeing spiritual failures all around, & therefore trying even harder to live the God-glorifying life in their strength. When the answer simply lies in 'living & walking in the Spirit' ( Galatians 5:16). Blessings.

Amen Brother Chris.

God bless you.

James chapter 2 explains 2:24 - Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Faith without works is dead. Or... Titus 1:16 - They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

James 2:19

"Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble."

Or the ones that proclaim to be believers, but Jesus says He never knew them because they were workers of iniquity. They believed in Jesus, they just never repented.

So, the question should be what is Salvation before we discuss losing one's salvation. I think we confuse believing in Jesus to be saved. God's Word says even the devils believe...we know they aren't saved.

The once saved always saved doctrine, I think is dangerous, as we see many Churches today giving people license to live like the devil, and have the comfort of eternal salvation over their heads.

So, what is Salvation, what is born again? Can a person believe in Jesus and live in sin and still be saved? If a person must repent, is that not works? Remember, Jesus told those "Christians" He never knew them because they were workers of iniquity. It was by their works that He never knew them.

Hi Tammy,

You said; It was by their works that He never knew them.

But if you examine Matthew 7:16-23 carefully you'll see that it was them trusting in their works and not his work is why he never knew them.

vv 16 states "Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

Matthew 7:17-20 goes on to give you the contrast between the fruit and the thistles and what become of them.

There's dead works and there's fruit.

Thistles may be a sign of dead works.

Fruit is a work of God and performed by God that the believer bares by being connected to the vine. Philippians 1:6.

Philippians 2:13.

This is what James is saying in James 2:18 "Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I WILL SHEW THEE MY FAITH BY MY WORKS."

A person wilfully continuing in sin is not saved, so you can't lose what you don't have.

James 3:19 reads; "Thou believest THAT THERE IS ONE GOD; thou doest well: THE DEVILS ALSO BELIEVE, AND TREMBLE.

Believing there's a God doesn't save souls.

Also; Titus 1:16 reads; "THEY PROFESS THAT THEY KNOW GOD; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate."

A profession doesn't save souls either.

Look at those professors described in the previous verse.

vv 15. "Unto the pure all things are pure: (BUT UNTO THEM THAT ARE DEFILED AND UNBELIEVING) is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled."

If you can earn your salvation you can lose it.

If you can earn it you have no need of Christ, he came to loose the captives.

He didn't come to give instructions on how to live a saved life.( You can't. )

Salvation is him giving you life that produces fruit.

So shall we continue in sin? NO!

If you were baptized into Christ you are Identified with him and see sin the way he do.

This is what Romans chapters 6, 7, and 8 is all about.

God bless.

Thank you Spencer, God bless

You're welcome Tammy.

God bless.