Bible Discussion Thread

Who are the dead in Christ who shall rise first in ( 1 Thess. 4:16)? When we die the soul and spirit are separated, the soul goes to the grave with the body and the spirit goes to the Lord to be judged. We are told in ( Heb. 4:12) "piercing even to the (dividing) sunder of soul and spirit" The word (dividing) is #3311; it means a separation or distribution, to part, to disunite, be difference between, divide. (The soul and spirit are separated, parted, disunited at death) First we look at the soul. ( Ps. 44:25) ( Ps. 49:15) ( Ps. 89:48) Then we have in ( Acts. 2:26-27) The word (hell) is #86; it means unseen, i.e. "Hades" or the place (state) of departed souls, grave, hell. Its also from #1492; (I only saw this tonight and it is an eye opener, literally). #1492; means to know, be aware, behold, consider, (have) know (-ledge) look (on) perceive, see, understand. This is saying the soul will see and have knowledge, and understand and be aware of its surroundings, is it not? Now we look at the spirit. Jesus Christ said in ( Luke. 23:46) "into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost". ( Acts. 7:58-60) v59 Stephen said "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit" (Eccl. 12:7) Tells us "and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it" So to be (present with the Lord) in ( 2 Cor. 5:8) is speaking of the spirit, not the soul. Two verses after this we see the spirit goes to the Lord to be judged in ( 2 Cor. 5:10) The dead rise first in ( 1 Thess. 4:16)? "The Lord shall descend from heaven with a shout" and they will here His voice in ( John. 5:28-29) and shall come forth, the dead souls in Christ shall rise first to meet their spirit in the air which will be returning with Jesus Christ in ( 1 Thess. 4:13-17) v14 "even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him" the resurrection of the just in ( Luke. 14:14) The word (resurrection) is #386 it means rise from the dead. Those who believed in Jesus and are raised up the last day in ( Jn. 6:39-40,44).

Jim,

The 'soul' is yourself. the 'spirit' is the Intelect of your soul. You cannot separate the soul from the spirit. Yourself is not out there somewhere in a hole in the ground. Ecclesiastes chapter 12.

Hi Jimbob,

The dead in Christ are God's children. Those that have died here and here on earth and gone back to be with God in paradise.

Those that will take part in the first resurrection. Those that we cannot 'prevent' because they are already in heaven. {paradise}.

John P I mean no disrespect here but did you even read the post? Please read it John, If does speak for itself. The soul and spirit are separated according to ( Heb. 4:12) and the only time that could be possible is at the death of our bodies. Verses were provided showing the soul goes to the grave with the body, (This is how the dead in Christ who shall rise first can come forth out of the grave in ( John. 5:28-29) and in ( 1 Thess. 4:16) and the spirit goes to God who gave it. The spirit is what comes back with Christ in ( 1 Thess. 4:14) I have found over many years of study to believe what the Word of God tells me to be the truth not what a man tells me. Again I think we have both studied with the same pastor in the past, you may still be watching him even after his death. He teaches chapter by chapter, and verse by verse. He was a great teacher but he didnt get everything right. This is just one more thing that he got wrong John. We must put our trust in the Word of God being the Truth, not what we are taught by a man. Thank you for your comments. Blessings to you John.

Jimbob

this is the last time I will answer anything on this subject. i do not change anything that 'My God' says. I will never take the word of man until after i have checked him out in God word. i do not know what you are saying when you say 'we listen or we were taught by the same paster or man or whatever. My teacher is E. W. Ballinger's KJV Companion Bible. anyway my wife and i will be cremated. my body will not be put in a hole in the ground.

John P I don't understand why people get offended so easily. What did I say to offend you John? I have provided Scripture to back everything I have said. Please check it out in your Bible to see if its Biblical, we should never take the words of any man unless it can be proven or backed with Scripture. I think I've pretty much already said that several times and in many, many different posts. The pastor I was thinking you have studied with is Pastor Arnold Murray, if I'm wrong on that then I do apologize. You have free will given to you by the Almighty God to do whatever you want to do John, nobody is saying otherwise. As for me personally, from my understanding of the soul and the spirit being divided or separated at death I would not be cremated, Thats just how I feel about that. That is also what PM taught he said that cremation would be ok. That is another thing I would say he taught incorrectly.

John can you point to anything, anywhere in the Word of God that is in any way in approval of, or anything that leads you to believe that being cremated is Biblical? Anywhere in the Word of God?

I'm only trying to be helpful here John. I am sorry for offending you, though I'm truly not sure how I did that!

I do not expect a response! Blessings to you and your wife John.

Hi Jimbo and John P.,

Please allow me to speak to the subject of burial method.

I am not aware of any Scripture that refers to cremation other than where the bodies of King Saul and those killed with him that were hung on a wall of the enemy were taken down and burned.

But then again, the Scriptures do not say anything to prohibit cremation either, anymore than people being buried at sea.

In such matters, I think that each person is to do what their conscience allows them

GiGi Thank you for your comment I agree with you completely. I was only showing what the Word of God says about the soul and spirit being separated at death as ( Heb. 4:12) tells us. If the soul goes with the body to the grave it just makes me wonder what would happen to the soul during a cremation? Where does it go? The sea does give up the dead that is in it ( Rev. 20:13).

I don't think that verse is talking about giving up (flesh) bodies that may have been in the sea for 100's or possibly even 1000's of years, that has to be meaning the soul because the spirit goes to be with God at death. And it surely cannot be speaking of flesh. In ( 1 Thess. 5:23) It speaks of a spirit, a soul, and a body. (that would be 3 that this verse shows us as being separate) I would hope that seeing the Truth from Scripture about the soul going to the grave would be very helpful and make it easier for someone to make a well informed decision. But you are right each person will do as their conscience allows them to do. I will also say this, If anyone sees where I have taken any verses out of context or misinterpreted the Scriptures in any way in this post, then Please show where it's not meaning what I have said it to mean or show where it is wrong. The Truth really does matter! Again thank you GiGi, your replies are always welcomed it is good to hear from you.

God Bless you.

I was taught when growing up that children before they reach the age of accountability would go to heaven.That age was when they were ably to understand right from wrong and that the ones that were not mentally capable of understanding would go to heaven at any age.I saw a question on Facebook and it got me to thinking and I couldn't find an answer.

Grace Stack I don't have an answer to where it would be found in the Bible but I think you are right. God is a judge of righteous judgment, if a child doesn't know right from wrong I believe as you do they will go to heaven. Also those who are not mentally capable of understanding at any age would not be judged for sins they would not or could not understand. I'm sorry I couldn't give you an answer where this could be found in Scripture but I would think someone on here will be able to give you that answer. Thank you for your comment. God Bless you.