No one has ever seen the Lord God. Moses saw His back side as He passed by. How then can we know God? How can we know through the Spirit who and what He is?
Entering into the spiritual world requires much discipline, our minds eye seeing the "Shekinah glory".
Being found under the wings of God is an honor unto those who love Him! A place of revelation unto the soul that trusts and waits on Him! Evidence, only as He communicates His Love, His Shekinah Love through His word.
This glory revealed in the new covenant, in His Holy Blood , given unto all mankind, in Himself through His Son!
Knowing the Shekinah glory, is knowing the power that belongs to those who love Him. A Power once and for all, a constant unmoving power, the same power that has created all things. Reach out, and touch His Majesty, while He can be found!
Hello guys...I was just thinking about water baptism...Which was in the O.T. But it carried over in to the N.T....When he had taken the cup..Jesus said this is the N.T. in my blood...Drink ye all of it...But even in the O.T. They had to apply blood to the doorpost...Not water....Without the shedding of Blood there was no remission of sins...What he did at calvary was a completely new thing...That New Covenant.... Jeremiah 31 :34....And it was not like the old covenant....Not according to the covenant that i made with your fathers....But if ya think that God needs help with his N.C....you are wrong...When ya command water baptism for the remission of sins you are in essence saying that the blood of the lamb was insufficient for some sins...Thats y the Lord was so upset with peter commanding water baptism after that Jesus had shed his blood for humanity...All of the unclean animals in that sheet Acts 10:15 kjv...which was the Church humanity was made clean by the blood of Jesus The lamb of God....Not water baptism lest we make the blood of no effect....Thats y Paul was so reluctant to water baptise....Paul feared that water baptism wd defile this New Covenant, a much different covenant by the blood of Jesus...3 times God showed Peter that vision of the sheet with all the unclean animals and telling peter 3 times what i have made clean....Do not call common or unclean...(By commanding water baptism).....As if the new covenant was insufficient for all of humanities sins...Peter does not command water baptism again after God told him, what i have made clean do not call common or unclean.
Then Peter began to preach being bornagain of an incorruptible seed even by the words of God that liveth and abideth for ever...Which is that LIVING WORD THE H.G. That Child of Promise...That Spirit of truth that is gonna rule all nations....The manchild that is gonna reprove this whole world of sin and judgement and righteousness...Thus the earth will be at rest n full of his glory.
I have need to baptised by you. Suffer it to be so , to fulfil all righteousness. The mystery of salvation of man has happened through time in and through chosen and obedient servants of God. Those before are our examples both now and before. Covenants and promises between God and man.
The ultimate servant , would be Himself in the man Christ Jesus!
Being covered in the blood is the supernatural power unto those who receive Him and believe on His name!
During ww2 the Jews would put blood on the doors of the concentration buildings, hoping that the prince of death would pass . Neither is insignificant!
A Nation who lives under the law will be judged by the same law. If a Nation no longer lives under grace and the forgiveness found in Christ, How then can the Spirit know who we are without the blood?
It is quite easy to forget some of the thing Christ told us. In Mat. 24 Jesus said ''I have told you all things'. How about John 14:9, "If you have seen me, you have seen the Father". In Gen. 1:26, our Father said "let 'us' make man in our image" including himself while talking to his creation.
I believe it is such a beautiful word, 'Shekinah'. It's meaning in the Hebrew 'God dwells there'.
I know a lot of people do not know or believe in the three heaven ages, three earth ages, eons and that 2nd Peter chapter three is not often taught with understanding. It would be wonderful if some of the mega churches would teach it today. That our Father (the God Head) never leaves his dimension. I thank Him that his spirit is always with us. God Bless.
Our Great God touches us and our lives every day. We are precious to Him and He takes the initiative in reaching to us. We respond in worship, obedience, and seeking to know more of Him in His word.
Moses was very blessed to experience such a close friendship with God. First, God reached out to Moses in the burning bush.
Then Moses experienced His power before Pharoah. Then He experienced God's presence in the pillar of fire by night and cloud by day. Then He meet God up on Mt. Sinai in a very remarkable way. Then He met regularly with God in the tabernacle where God displayed His Presence and glory. God spoke with Moses in a real voice. Moses sought out communion with God and walked with God all the years in the wilderness until God took Him when He died.
Moses appeared with Elijah upon the mountain when Jesus was transfigured before the selected apostles. This happened at God's initiative.
We should definitely seek God ever day, but we must also wait for God to reveal Himself to us. We can't imagine Him into manifesting Himself or glory. It has to be by His initiative. But we will see Him in heaven, which is the place Jesus not only prepare for us, but also prepared us for.
These last few years , the holy Spirit has moved upon me like never before, or I have not noticed Him like I have in the most recent times.
Things are coming together like never before. I understand only what I know from the scriptures and the revelations of those things predicted and fulfilled.
The prince of darkness has known from the beginning that one day He will be finished. That the war we find ourselves in has become quite clear , to me any way. His presence and power weakened each and every day, as His servants are found out before my very eyes. This fear tactic he enjoys as he possesses another soul, a soul without the knowledge of Christ and the power of His might.
Even so, we who speak the things of God, somehow provoking the demons within! So natural, and yet, one learns not to be too hasty. Waiting after the first and second admonition, watching and waiting for His next move!
In these last days , this spiritual warfare is understood by the believing Christian , and yet Satan does not see His demise as the rest of the world looks on! His position being compromised each day. He is loosing the war!
These things belong to the faithful, the knowledge and power given through the shed Blood of Christ.
The transfiguration ,God determined to prove the existence of Himself before the law and prophets. The Jews are without excuse. He came unto His own and His own received Him not!
The church's that are under attack are those with large denominations, who bibles have been disregarded for another meaningless translation. We are in the last days! Repent and be Baptized
Yes I know very well what it is like to be "pressed on" by God to act in specific situations. Sometimes it is pretty intense, and other times amore gentle nudge or circumstancial confirmations that we cannot make happen. The important thing is to keep close to Him, be determined to be obedient, keep in prayer and His Word, and know that what you are doing according to His leading is important.
I think that the transfiguration was most awesome. It was displaying that Jesus is the Messiah who fulfills all the Law and prophets ( Matt. 5:17; 26:56). This is why Moses and Elijah were present. They represented the Law and the Prophets.
But Moses and Elijah being present would be so reassuring to the disciples to know that Moses and Elijah are alive! Later, when Jesus would appear after His resurrection, they can solidly believe that not only was He alive from the dead, but also that He can fulfill his promise of resurrection for all who believe in Him, like Moses and Elijah.
And again, the transfiguration was really all about Jesus in His glory that He had prior to becoming man. His glory was cloaked among them, but here, He shows them His glory and they recognize that they should worship Him as God.
The first verses of Hebrews 12 tells us that there is a great cloud of witnesses in heaven who have gone before us in faith. This follows chapter 11 were it speaks of all who where faithful. the author names names and speak of what happened to them, and how they kept their faith and endured severe hardships, death, or long waiting times to receive the answer to God's promises. Abraham never received the land promised, but instead, he looked ahead to the heavenly fulfillment of the promise, the heavenly Jerusalem, built by God, which is the true fulfillment of God's promises to Abraham and others.
Fred, keep stuck to Jesus. He is our King. We are in Him, and will inherit the kingdom with Him. How generous of God to do this for us who believe and trust
Your post is on point, fulfilling the Law and the Prophets, Jesus and Paul used that saying many times. This is not to generate a back-and-forth; just thought you might want to look at it. I agree the transformation was awesome and like you said we have the law and the prophets and the Messiah in the middle a true picture of the fulfillment of scriptures by the Messiah, Jesus.
I have heard it said by many, Moses and Elijah were there and were alive and I have a hard time understanding that. Does it matter? This was before the resurrection of Jesus and Jesus is the firstfruits of those who slept, 1 Cor. 15:20. So, before Jesus defeated death and was resurrected no person who ever lived had not ascended to heaven, John 3:13.
Paul tells us in Acts 2:29,34 David is dead and buried and has not ascended to heaven. How do we explain Enoch and Elijah being taken? There are some things about that like them being the two witnesses, but I do not know, by the scriptures, I have not found it. But if Moses, after he died, Deuteronomy 34:1-5, was taken up to heaven Jesus would not be the firstfruits.
We see this in Matt. 17:9Mark 9:9 Jesus said it was a vision and do not tell anyone what they saw and in Luke 9:32 they were heavy with sleep and John did not write about it. All three covered the cloud, (the Shekinah Glory), and what God said, "This is my beloved Son: hear him." Peter also repeats it in 2 Peter 1:15-18. Was it a vision? Was it to reinforce their faith?
Like I said, this is not to start a ruckus, I just cannot get an understanding of Moses and Elijah alive and being there when John wrote this after Jesus had ascended, because he said Jesus was in heaven; only Jesus who came down is the only one who has ascended to heaven, John 3:13.
Hello Ronald. If I may share my thoughts on the Scriptures you shared & hopefully not feeding into a possible ruckus.
a. John 3:10-13. I understand that this speaks about Jesus asserting that it could only be Him Who brought this wonderful Truth (of rebirth) to Nicodemus since none else before Him had done so. He was the One always in Heaven, & as the Word of God now in flesh, He was even greater than the prophets that went before Him ( Hebrews 1:1,2); in that He, the Living Word, brought out the mysterious Truths of Heaven. There was none other that ascended to Heaven in the past, heard such things & then came back to Earth to deliver the message - only Jesus could do it & has done it. So Jesus isn't talking about a resurrection here, but that none has ever done what He has done now (i.e. entering Heaven & returning with this Word).
b. Then what about Enoch, Moses & Elijah? Enoch & Elijah are understood to have been translated at their final day on Earth, i.e. they weren't resurrected (as I understand that a resurrection can only happen after one dies first). Of Moses, it would be difficult to correctly understand his destiny at death; was it just in the grave awaiting resurrection, or into Heaven itself, or maybe as in the account of the rich man & Lazarus, where the spirit & soul temporarily resides in a 'paradise'. The only way that I can understand Moses' coming (in Matthew 17:1-4), is that Moses was released from his paradise, given an outward form (as also Elijah), for the purposes of this transfiguration & then maybe returned from whence he came.
c. And yes, I would agree that for Jesus to be "the firstfruits of them that slept" ( 1 Corinthians 15:20), then no other before Him could have experienced a bodily resurrection; either they were translated or their spirits/souls went into that paradise hold. Then of those who were resurrected post-Jesus' resurrection ( Matthew 27:51-53), we aren't told what became of them after that - we can only speculate.
Thanks, Chris I was just being silly with the ruckus, I took a closer look at John 3 and I understand what you are saying about John 3:13 being in the discussion with Nicodemus. Jesus is telling him that no man had, or could go up to heaven, to bring the knowledge of heavenly things. That is a better understanding of the context of what Jesus was telling Nicodemus.
On the other, We are told in Hebrews 9:27 man is appointed once to die but it is God's will and His pleasure, and some things we have not been told. We know in Hebrews 11:5 Enoch was translated that he should not see death, and in 2 Kings 2:11 Elijah was taken up, other than that we speculate.
We do know Moses died Deut. 34:1-5, that is why I believe the transformation was a vision, whether a future event like things John was shown in Revelation or just a vision to strengthen the three to be apostles. My understanding is our soul is not immortal, to me scripture says we are mortal 2 Cor. 15:46-48 and will be until we are resurrected, 1 Cor. 15:53-54. The spirit that goes back is our breath/life, Ecclesiastes 12:7
In Matt. 27:50-54 my understanding is different, the word resurrection is a different word than used for all the other times it is in scripture it has more of a meaning of waking up. I would think after being hung on the cross for 6 hours one would be in and out of consciousness. In vs 50 Jesus cried out and yielded up the ghost.
All the things that happened next are connected with and, all happened when Jesus died. The earthquake opened the graves and those who arose went into Jerusalem when Jesus died not after Jesus was resurrected. That is my understanding, but scripture does not tell us about who they appeared to or what happened to them. Verse 54 confirms this to me and ties it to John 8:28.
Thanks for your reply and a better understanding of John 3:13, but my understanding is still no one but Jesus has ascended to heaven or will.
Appreciate your reply Ronald & thanks. In regards to the transfiguration of Jesus ( Matthew 17:1-4), & to whether it was just a vision that Peter, James, & John had seen or if Moses & Elijah were physically there, I think any view we might hold onto could be endlessly & fruitlessly debated. Had we been told that the disciples physically embraced these two men/spirits or were unable to do so, then we might arrive at a better understanding. And similarly, with the description & destiny of the soul & spirit, a discussion of which never seems to bring out clear irrefutable answers, we may need to hold to our views until further light comes our way.
Re: Matthew 27:50-54 (as also in Matthew 27:63,64: pertaining to Jesus rising from the grave), I see that the same word (in a different form) is used in the Greek. By the way, I wasn't referring to verse 50, Jesus "yielding up the ghost" as to His resurrection, but to the event after His three day entombment.
So when we get to those saints who died & arose (vv 52,53), I understand those verses to show that there were two parts to this event. Firstly in verse 52a, when Jesus yielded up His Spirit on the Cross, simultaneously those specific graves were opened as the veil was rent & the earthquake, etc. But those departed saints remained dead in their graves until verse 52b, 53: "and many bodies of the saints arose and came out of the graves AFTER his resurrection" (at least that's the way I read those verses). This would affirm that Jesus was indeed the 'firstfruits of the resurrection' ( 1 Corinthians 15:20-23), since those saints only arose & came out of their graves (i.e. their resurrection, 'egerthesan') after Jesus first arose. So if I visualize the scene at that time: Jesus appearing to the women & then the disciples & simultaneously these long-departed saints now walking among the populace - this event alone should have sent Jerusalem into some turmoil. Thanks again brother & every blessing.
Thanks again, I hope you don't mind, I understand you are done with this, and this is not to drag this on, a tit-for-tat and there is no need to reply. I usually keep posts short, but I feel I left things out and this will be it for this topic. Thanks again for the light on John 3:13.
The Priests and Pharisees kept on pushing Jesus for signs and proof and they were dead set on killing Him from early in Jesus' ministry. Jesus told them in John 8:28-29 that they would know He was the Messiah the Son of God and those things that happened when He died were proof for them. In John 5:25 "the hour is coming and now is,"
My understanding of the saints that came out of their graves was the same as Jairus's daughter, the widow of Nain's son. and Lazarus, when Jesus cried out caused all those things to happen and the saints came out of their graves and went into the city. Not in their glorified bodies but like Lazarus and the others.
In Matt. 27:54 They saw all these things happen they feared greatly saying "Truly this was the Son of God." The priests and Pharisees knew then they just killed the Messiah the Son of God. That is why they went to Pilate to guard the tomb, Matt. 27:62-66, as we see the disciples in shock still not knowing Jesus was going to be resurrected. The priests even with big money paid off the soldiers to tell a lie, Matt. 28:11-15.
Jesus is the Firstfruits and my understanding is He is the only one who has been resurrected with a glorified body until He returns.
Thanks again Ronald. That's a good point you made: that Jesus being the "firstfruits of them that slept", would only apply to Himself & then afterwards to all those who rise from the dead in glorified bodies. That has helped my understanding, as I've always thought of simply a resurrection from the grave (thereby omitting Lazarus, the widow's son, & Jairus' daughter, who weren't buried/entombed). But they all, like us, await that day when our bodies will also rise & be received by the Lord in our perfect, whole & glorified state. Blessings.
Entering into the spiritual world requires much discipline, our minds eye seeing the "Shekinah glory".
Being found under the wings of God is an honor unto those who love Him! A place of revelation unto the soul that trusts and waits on Him! Evidence, only as He communicates His Love, His Shekinah Love through His word.
This glory revealed in the new covenant, in His Holy Blood , given unto all mankind, in Himself through His Son!
Knowing the Shekinah glory, is knowing the power that belongs to those who love Him. A Power once and for all, a constant unmoving power, the same power that has created all things. Reach out, and touch His Majesty, while He can be found!
Then Peter began to preach being bornagain of an incorruptible seed even by the words of God that liveth and abideth for ever...Which is that LIVING WORD THE H.G. That Child of Promise...That Spirit of truth that is gonna rule all nations....The manchild that is gonna reprove this whole world of sin and judgement and righteousness...Thus the earth will be at rest n full of his glory.
The ultimate servant , would be Himself in the man Christ Jesus!
Being covered in the blood is the supernatural power unto those who receive Him and believe on His name!
During ww2 the Jews would put blood on the doors of the concentration buildings, hoping that the prince of death would pass . Neither is insignificant!
A Nation who lives under the law will be judged by the same law. If a Nation no longer lives under grace and the forgiveness found in Christ, How then can the Spirit know who we are without the blood?
Repent and be Baptized
I know a lot of people do not know or believe in the three heaven ages, three earth ages, eons and that 2nd Peter chapter three is not often taught with understanding. It would be wonderful if some of the mega churches would teach it today. That our Father (the God Head) never leaves his dimension. I thank Him that his spirit is always with us. God Bless.
It is good to hear from you.
Our Great God touches us and our lives every day. We are precious to Him and He takes the initiative in reaching to us. We respond in worship, obedience, and seeking to know more of Him in His word.
Moses was very blessed to experience such a close friendship with God. First, God reached out to Moses in the burning bush.
Then Moses experienced His power before Pharoah. Then He experienced God's presence in the pillar of fire by night and cloud by day. Then He meet God up on Mt. Sinai in a very remarkable way. Then He met regularly with God in the tabernacle where God displayed His Presence and glory. God spoke with Moses in a real voice. Moses sought out communion with God and walked with God all the years in the wilderness until God took Him when He died.
Moses appeared with Elijah upon the mountain when Jesus was transfigured before the selected apostles. This happened at God's initiative.
We should definitely seek God ever day, but we must also wait for God to reveal Himself to us. We can't imagine Him into manifesting Himself or glory. It has to be by His initiative. But we will see Him in heaven, which is the place Jesus not only prepare for us, but also prepared us for.
These last few years , the holy Spirit has moved upon me like never before, or I have not noticed Him like I have in the most recent times.
Things are coming together like never before. I understand only what I know from the scriptures and the revelations of those things predicted and fulfilled.
The prince of darkness has known from the beginning that one day He will be finished. That the war we find ourselves in has become quite clear , to me any way. His presence and power weakened each and every day, as His servants are found out before my very eyes. This fear tactic he enjoys as he possesses another soul, a soul without the knowledge of Christ and the power of His might.
Even so, we who speak the things of God, somehow provoking the demons within! So natural, and yet, one learns not to be too hasty. Waiting after the first and second admonition, watching and waiting for His next move!
In these last days , this spiritual warfare is understood by the believing Christian , and yet Satan does not see His demise as the rest of the world looks on! His position being compromised each day. He is loosing the war!
These things belong to the faithful, the knowledge and power given through the shed Blood of Christ.
The transfiguration ,God determined to prove the existence of Himself before the law and prophets. The Jews are without excuse. He came unto His own and His own received Him not!
The church's that are under attack are those with large denominations, who bibles have been disregarded for another meaningless translation. We are in the last days! Repent and be Baptized
Yes I know very well what it is like to be "pressed on" by God to act in specific situations. Sometimes it is pretty intense, and other times amore gentle nudge or circumstancial confirmations that we cannot make happen. The important thing is to keep close to Him, be determined to be obedient, keep in prayer and His Word, and know that what you are doing according to His leading is important.
I think that the transfiguration was most awesome. It was displaying that Jesus is the Messiah who fulfills all the Law and prophets ( Matt. 5:17; 26:56). This is why Moses and Elijah were present. They represented the Law and the Prophets.
But Moses and Elijah being present would be so reassuring to the disciples to know that Moses and Elijah are alive! Later, when Jesus would appear after His resurrection, they can solidly believe that not only was He alive from the dead, but also that He can fulfill his promise of resurrection for all who believe in Him, like Moses and Elijah.
And again, the transfiguration was really all about Jesus in His glory that He had prior to becoming man. His glory was cloaked among them, but here, He shows them His glory and they recognize that they should worship Him as God.
The first verses of Hebrews 12 tells us that there is a great cloud of witnesses in heaven who have gone before us in faith. This follows chapter 11 were it speaks of all who where faithful. the author names names and speak of what happened to them, and how they kept their faith and endured severe hardships, death, or long waiting times to receive the answer to God's promises. Abraham never received the land promised, but instead, he looked ahead to the heavenly fulfillment of the promise, the heavenly Jerusalem, built by God, which is the true fulfillment of God's promises to Abraham and others.
Fred, keep stuck to Jesus. He is our King. We are in Him, and will inherit the kingdom with Him. How generous of God to do this for us who believe and trust
Your post is on point, fulfilling the Law and the Prophets, Jesus and Paul used that saying many times. This is not to generate a back-and-forth; just thought you might want to look at it. I agree the transformation was awesome and like you said we have the law and the prophets and the Messiah in the middle a true picture of the fulfillment of scriptures by the Messiah, Jesus.
I have heard it said by many, Moses and Elijah were there and were alive and I have a hard time understanding that. Does it matter? This was before the resurrection of Jesus and Jesus is the firstfruits of those who slept, 1 Cor. 15:20. So, before Jesus defeated death and was resurrected no person who ever lived had not ascended to heaven, John 3:13.
Paul tells us in Acts 2:29,34 David is dead and buried and has not ascended to heaven. How do we explain Enoch and Elijah being taken? There are some things about that like them being the two witnesses, but I do not know, by the scriptures, I have not found it. But if Moses, after he died, Deuteronomy 34:1-5, was taken up to heaven Jesus would not be the firstfruits.
We see this in Matt. 17:9 Mark 9:9 Jesus said it was a vision and do not tell anyone what they saw and in Luke 9:32 they were heavy with sleep and John did not write about it. All three covered the cloud, (the Shekinah Glory), and what God said, "This is my beloved Son: hear him." Peter also repeats it in 2 Peter 1:15-18. Was it a vision? Was it to reinforce their faith?
Like I said, this is not to start a ruckus, I just cannot get an understanding of Moses and Elijah alive and being there when John wrote this after Jesus had ascended, because he said Jesus was in heaven; only Jesus who came down is the only one who has ascended to heaven, John 3:13.
In love thank you for what you do.
God bless,
RLW
I wrote Richard instead of Ronald, So sorry.
a. John 3:10-13. I understand that this speaks about Jesus asserting that it could only be Him Who brought this wonderful Truth (of rebirth) to Nicodemus since none else before Him had done so. He was the One always in Heaven, & as the Word of God now in flesh, He was even greater than the prophets that went before Him ( Hebrews 1:1,2); in that He, the Living Word, brought out the mysterious Truths of Heaven. There was none other that ascended to Heaven in the past, heard such things & then came back to Earth to deliver the message - only Jesus could do it & has done it. So Jesus isn't talking about a resurrection here, but that none has ever done what He has done now (i.e. entering Heaven & returning with this Word).
b. Then what about Enoch, Moses & Elijah? Enoch & Elijah are understood to have been translated at their final day on Earth, i.e. they weren't resurrected (as I understand that a resurrection can only happen after one dies first). Of Moses, it would be difficult to correctly understand his destiny at death; was it just in the grave awaiting resurrection, or into Heaven itself, or maybe as in the account of the rich man & Lazarus, where the spirit & soul temporarily resides in a 'paradise'. The only way that I can understand Moses' coming (in Matthew 17:1-4), is that Moses was released from his paradise, given an outward form (as also Elijah), for the purposes of this transfiguration & then maybe returned from whence he came.
c. And yes, I would agree that for Jesus to be "the firstfruits of them that slept" ( 1 Corinthians 15:20), then no other before Him could have experienced a bodily resurrection; either they were translated or their spirits/souls went into that paradise hold. Then of those who were resurrected post-Jesus' resurrection ( Matthew 27:51-53), we aren't told what became of them after that - we can only speculate.
Thanks, Chris I was just being silly with the ruckus, I took a closer look at John 3 and I understand what you are saying about John 3:13 being in the discussion with Nicodemus. Jesus is telling him that no man had, or could go up to heaven, to bring the knowledge of heavenly things. That is a better understanding of the context of what Jesus was telling Nicodemus.
On the other, We are told in Hebrews 9:27 man is appointed once to die but it is God's will and His pleasure, and some things we have not been told. We know in Hebrews 11:5 Enoch was translated that he should not see death, and in 2 Kings 2:11 Elijah was taken up, other than that we speculate.
We do know Moses died Deut. 34:1-5, that is why I believe the transformation was a vision, whether a future event like things John was shown in Revelation or just a vision to strengthen the three to be apostles. My understanding is our soul is not immortal, to me scripture says we are mortal 2 Cor. 15:46-48 and will be until we are resurrected, 1 Cor. 15:53-54. The spirit that goes back is our breath/life, Ecclesiastes 12:7
In Matt. 27:50-54 my understanding is different, the word resurrection is a different word than used for all the other times it is in scripture it has more of a meaning of waking up. I would think after being hung on the cross for 6 hours one would be in and out of consciousness. In vs 50 Jesus cried out and yielded up the ghost.
All the things that happened next are connected with and, all happened when Jesus died. The earthquake opened the graves and those who arose went into Jerusalem when Jesus died not after Jesus was resurrected. That is my understanding, but scripture does not tell us about who they appeared to or what happened to them. Verse 54 confirms this to me and ties it to John 8:28.
Thanks for your reply and a better understanding of John 3:13, but my understanding is still no one but Jesus has ascended to heaven or will.
God bless,
RLW
Re: Matthew 27:50-54 (as also in Matthew 27:63,64: pertaining to Jesus rising from the grave), I see that the same word (in a different form) is used in the Greek. By the way, I wasn't referring to verse 50, Jesus "yielding up the ghost" as to His resurrection, but to the event after His three day entombment.
So when we get to those saints who died & arose (vv 52,53), I understand those verses to show that there were two parts to this event. Firstly in verse 52a, when Jesus yielded up His Spirit on the Cross, simultaneously those specific graves were opened as the veil was rent & the earthquake, etc. But those departed saints remained dead in their graves until verse 52b, 53: "and many bodies of the saints arose and came out of the graves AFTER his resurrection" (at least that's the way I read those verses). This would affirm that Jesus was indeed the 'firstfruits of the resurrection' ( 1 Corinthians 15:20-23), since those saints only arose & came out of their graves (i.e. their resurrection, 'egerthesan') after Jesus first arose. So if I visualize the scene at that time: Jesus appearing to the women & then the disciples & simultaneously these long-departed saints now walking among the populace - this event alone should have sent Jerusalem into some turmoil. Thanks again brother & every blessing.
Thanks again, I hope you don't mind, I understand you are done with this, and this is not to drag this on, a tit-for-tat and there is no need to reply. I usually keep posts short, but I feel I left things out and this will be it for this topic. Thanks again for the light on John 3:13.
The Priests and Pharisees kept on pushing Jesus for signs and proof and they were dead set on killing Him from early in Jesus' ministry. Jesus told them in John 8:28-29 that they would know He was the Messiah the Son of God and those things that happened when He died were proof for them. In John 5:25 "the hour is coming and now is,"
My understanding of the saints that came out of their graves was the same as Jairus's daughter, the widow of Nain's son. and Lazarus, when Jesus cried out caused all those things to happen and the saints came out of their graves and went into the city. Not in their glorified bodies but like Lazarus and the others.
In Matt. 27:54 They saw all these things happen they feared greatly saying "Truly this was the Son of God." The priests and Pharisees knew then they just killed the Messiah the Son of God. That is why they went to Pilate to guard the tomb, Matt. 27:62-66, as we see the disciples in shock still not knowing Jesus was going to be resurrected. The priests even with big money paid off the soldiers to tell a lie, Matt. 28:11-15.
Jesus is the Firstfruits and my understanding is He is the only one who has been resurrected with a glorified body until He returns.
God bless,
RLW
God bless,
RLW
You have raised some good points. I really can't say I know the answers for you. I guess we both may need to do more searching.
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