Bible Discussion Thread

 
  • Yasser72 - 1 year ago
    Paul is writing a letter to the Galatians, Corinthians, Ephesians, etc, etc...But why everybody is reading especially the Americans when it wasn't intended for them..? I'm just curious ;)
  • Chris - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Hello Yasser72. I'm unsure what your question is here, but you are correct that the Apostle Paul did write those letters specifically to the Churches in those cities. And those letters may have also been in circulation to other Churches in those countries as more people learned about Jesus & then believed on Him. Likewise, those letters have been preserved for us to read & learn about the early Church, their Christian experience, and how we should also likewise live in a godless world. There were many more letters written, but they were either lost or not preserved for us - so we must be thankful that what we have now is very much a part of the whole Word of God that God has wanted us to learn from. But if this is not an answer to you question, I apologize - maybe you could expand your thoughts further for us.
  • David0921 - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Yasser72,

    Your question is a good one and really boils down to what is the Bible and how are we to approach the Bible?

    The Bible is the Word of God. It is not in the first instance the word of Paul or Luke or Isaiah or Jeremiah. God is the AUTHOR of the Bible. Every word in the original Hebrew and Greek is from the mouth of God Himself.

    Furthermore the Bible is the COMPLETE Word of God. There are no lost books or any additional revelations from God.

    Also every part of the Bible is for us today. There are those that would say that, for example, the Old Testament is only for the Jews. Or Paul's letters are primarily for the churches. Not so!

    THE BIBLE ALONE AND IN ITS ENTIRETY IS THE ONLY WORD OF GOD. And every part of the Bible is equally important for us today.

    So when we approach the Bible to understand truth we MUST compare scripture with scripture. And we MUST harmonize any conclusion we reach about what a verse is teaching with everything else the Bible declares. We MUST NEVER isolate any part of the Bible from the rest of the Bible in order to come to an understanding. The BIBLE IS ITS OWN INTERPRETER. We can and must, for example, compare the letter to the Romans with Isaiah and every other part of the Bible to come to truth.

    May God bless as you search the scriptures.
  • Yasser72 - In Reply - 1 year ago
    What I'm saying here is that, for instance, if I'm writing a letter to someone or somebody but the postmaster read it to the whole world, was it good..? where is the privacy..? what I mean is that, if Paul is writing to the Romans then keep it with the Romans because he says in Romans 3:10 that there is no righteous person, not one which I beg to disagree because Job is a righteous person according to the book of Job and he's perfect and upright...so it only proved that Paul is a liar as he states in Romans 3:7
  • Chris - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Thanks Yasser72 for the clarification. And yes, you make a good point about a letter (whether personal or general to the Church(es); should that letter be sent out for further distribution? I had never considered any of the apostolic letters in such a way.

    You gave the example of a postmaster opening & reading your letter to others. That normally would be a valid point because no one expects, or is lawful, to open up private mail & share the contents with others. The only thing with your example is that the letter in question is still current, the sender is alive & the recipients would also be hurt by knowing that others were privy to the contents. What if your personal letter was sent, intending that other believers in that city or country would gain benefit from it (e.g. through the media), but especially to the ones addressed? Or, if your letter was left in someone's drawer, was found 100 years after you died & indeed, the recipients also died, would it really matter to you or anyone else that your letter was found & read?

    I think we have many examples of personal letters that exist today written by people of old that have been archived or published in newspapers/books. I really don't see a problem in this scenario, and I'm quite sure that Paul & the others wouldn't have minded that the contents of their letters receive a wider readership (see 1 Thessalonians 5:27 (could have included others that the Thessalonian Church had contact with) & Colossians 4:15,16). Even the Letter by John given by the Jesus Christ, was intended to be 'revealed unto his servants (all of us) things which must shortly come to pass...' ( Revelation 1:1). So I do believe that what we have in the Bible today, has been appointed by God & intended for the widest distribution so that all people might come to know the LORD & His Christ, made conscious of their sin, & run into the Arms of a Loving Savior. These letters have helped us greatly, causing us to understand & act upon this Truth.
  • Giannis - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Hello Yasser

    You need to study the scriptures first before you come to any conclusion,

    There is a difference between what is called a rightous man in the Old Testament and what is called the same in the New Testament.

    In the Old Testament God called people who strived to live under His commandments as rightous, although as humans they were doing sins, but they asked for God's grace afterwards. Also due to the human fallen nature people at that time were often not able to obey God's commandments, although they wanted to do so, eg the Law said not to desire something but people couldn't avoid desiring it. But still God aknowledged their effords to live godly and called them righteous.

    In the new Testament Jesus paid the price for our sins on the cross, so we are now free. That means that our sins are erased when we repent and ask for Jesus' Blood and God's forgiveness. So infront of God's eyes we are righteous people since we have no sins at all. This is the perfect righteousness, a perfection. Also we are given God's Spirit to dwell inside us as a Helper for achieving to obey God's commandments and get sanctified. Those (Jesus' Blood and the indwelling Spirit in us where not available in the Old Testament.

    GBU
  • GiGi - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Part. 3

    The OT promises were superceded by what we receive in Christ and their better promises were to be realized only with us being co-heirs with them in Christ, in which we will together be made perfect forever.

    I love that there is not one fulfillment of promises for the OT believers and a different fulfillment of promises for NT saints. But together we all receive that same fulfillment of better promises in Christ that far outweigh the value of the OT promises by an infinite degree. We are all receivers of the greatest fulfillments of God's promises through His grace and mercy that can be given by God. How wonderful is that.

    It is these verses in the OT that cause me to not believe in a future earthly eternal state for Israelites and a heavenly eternal state for Christians. Hebrews 11:19-20 clearly says that we all receive from God the same eternal inheritance. Not separate eternal inheritances or states of blessedness.
  • Giannis - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Pt 2, GiGi

    Please pay attention to that "their righteousness". This is a MAN'S RIGHTOUSNESS, which as I said is far away from God's perfect righteouness. This MAN'S RIGHTEOUSNESS could never get us into Heaven due to the sins we all do. That is why all those people were not going to Heaven but in Abrahams place in Hades.

    In the N.T. Jesus was sacrificed for our sins. So now we still try to be righteous in our lives and when we fail we have Jesus' Blood for our sins to be erased and hence we stand before God as righteous people. This righteousness is not a result of our efforts to be so but it is a result of God's grace to us. That is why it is now called GOD'S RIGHTEOUNESS. It is the perfect righteousness. It is gifted to us by God. And this kind of righteousness will get us into Heaven, whether a Jew or a gentile, there is no difference at all as far as salvation is concerned.

    So there is a distintion between OT righteousness which is man's righteousness and the NT one which is God's righteousness.

    But as I said my purpose when I answered that post was not to analyze all those things we all kknow but just give a simplified quick answer. I don't think that we disagree on that subject.

    GBU
  • GiGi - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Giannis,

    Thank you for this explanation. I was not trying to make things complicated. I just wished to present how any person is considered righteous before God and a receiver of God's grace towards salvation.

    I think that so many people in both testaments and throughout human history have thought that they could by their own effort and deeds be righteous in God's eyes. But the passages I brought forward make it clear that no man can attain righteousness before God without the righteousness that comes by faith. And this righteousness is that of Christ's perfect life and perfection as the divine Son of God that is placed upon us who believe. He takes away our sins and gives us His own righteousness lived out in His humanity in place of our sins and wickedness before God.

    Have a good day, Giannis.
  • Giannis - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Thank you also GiGi, have a nice day yourself as well.

    GBU
  • Giannis - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Pt 1

    Hello GiGi

    My purpose when answering that post from Yasser was not actually to dig deep in the Word of God but just simplify it in a simple answer.

    I also believe that there will not be an Israelitic Kingdom on this earth, neither in the futute earth. Those promises that were said for Israel by God were and are still fulfilled in the church. The only promise that is left yet for Hebrews is their salvation. And we know that that will take place during the antichrist's rule on this earth at the end. Besides according to the scriptures there is no room left for an Israelitic kingdom. it is not going to happen now, neither in the last week, neither in the millenium, neither on the new earth that will be creared by God after the final Judgement.

    I don't believe that there are different requirements for Hebrews and gentiles as far as salvation is concerned. We all are justified by the Blood of the Lamb.

    What I wanted to say is:

    In the O.T. there were people who tried to be righteous, they made efforts to follow God's Will. But like all people they were doing sins. So we have people that did righteous things but also sins. So they were in a sence righteous, this is called MAN'S RIGHTEOUSNESS. It is not a perfect righteousness, actually it is far far away from what God calls righteousness. But still God sometimes called them rightous because He appriciated their efforts, like Zacharias and Elisabeth in Luke 1:6, "And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.". Also Noe is called righteous, Genesis 6:8-9, "But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God."

    Also read Ezekiel 14:14, "Though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they should deliver but their own souls by their righteousness, saith the Lord GOD."
  • GiGi - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Part w

    Romans 4: 16 "Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all."

    4:20- 5:2 "He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God; And being fully persuaded that; what He had promised, He was able also to perform. And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.

    Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him; But for us also, to whom ot shall be imputed, if we believe on Him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised for our justification."

    Therefore bring justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: By whom also we have access by faith into the grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God."

    Hebrews 11 speaks of the faith that counts towards righteousness to all who believe God, as being the substance of things hoped for, and the evidence of things not seen. (vs. 1) For by it (faith) the elders obtained a good report (by God). (vs 2).

    Then this chapter goes on to list many of the patriarchs and Old Testament saints who were justified by faith that counted to them for righteousness, telling how they demonstrated their faith.

    Vs. 39-40 goes on to say "And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: God having provided better things for us, that they without us should not be made perfect."

    These chapters tell us that anyone who is counted righteous before God in either the Old or New Testament, are so deemed so by faith, not by the law. Anyone who believes in the true God is justified before Him through grace by faith.

    I think that verse 40 is really beautiful, that these OT saints did not receive what was promised in an earthly way (being earthly, it was imperfect)

    see part 3
  • GiGi - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Hello

    Giannis,

    I read in Romans Chapter 3 and 4 that any person's righteousness is by faith and not by keeping the Law. Using Abraham as an example of both Old Testament and New Testament Gentiles or Jews, Paul says that Abraham believed God and that faith was counted to him as righteousness.

    3:28-30 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith; without the deeds of the law.

    Is He the God of the Jews only? Is He not also of the Gentiles? Yes. of the Gentiles also:

    Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and the uncircumcision through faith."

    3:20 "Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in His sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin."

    4:1-4 "What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?

    For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. For what saith the Scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him for righteousness. Now to hjim that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt."

    4:6 "Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputed righteousness without works,"

    4:1-14 "And he (Abraham) received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also: and the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham which he had being yet uncircumcised.

    For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect."

    see part 2
  • David0921 - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Apart from Salvation, "there is none righteous no not one" ( Romans 3:10). God declares that Job was righteous because God had saved Job. When God saves us, i.e. we become Born Again, God gives us a new Resurrected Soul which "can not sin" ( 1 John 3:9). Once God has saved us, the Righteousness of Christ is IMPUTED to us ( James 2:23) and we will have an earnest ongoing desire to be obedient to the Law of God. But we can and do fall into sin because or new Resurrected Soul still resides in a body that still lusts after sin and we are an integrated personality, body and soul ( Romans 7:18-25).

    Therefore Job is called righteous because God had saved him.

    The Bible IS THE WORD OF GOD. There are no contradictions nor "lies" in the Bible because God is the author of the Bible.
  • MountHoreb - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Really nice scriptures.

    Can you explain when you said new resurrected souls still resides in a body that...?

    Thanks



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