Bible Discussion Thread

Harmonizing Scripture with other Scripture.

When we take Ephesians 2:14-18, as confirmation that God is through with National Israel we need to examine that further.

Ephesians 2:14-18 Establishes the Church.

Ephesians 2:12

That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

We see in this verse that the Gentiles were added to make up the body "Not Israel"

When the early Church started they were nearly All Jews.

The middle wall of partition was broken down for the Gentiles,

They were the strangers. Keep in mind these are the Messianic Jews. ( BOTH THE JEWS AND GENTILES SAVED BY ONE WAY, CHRIST. )

So what you see here "in regards to Salvation, there is NO Dispensation. "As always and forever" Christ is savior and the only way for all.

There is a dispensation in the believers view point in regards to time.

Israel in the OT looked forward to one who was coming.

Today Beleiving Jews and Gentiles looks back at one who has came.

So we have two groups here that forms the Church.

So we start with three Groups here. The Nation Israel divided up in two groups. "The believers and those who remained blinded. "

Also the believing Jews and the Gentiles.



In Romans chapters 9, 10, and 11 we see Paul deals with these same three groups.

You see two saved and forming the church.

You see one that has been broken off because of non-belief.

You see the same order of sequence as you do in Ephesians. The Gentiles added or "Grafted into the common wealth of Israel.

Romans 11:1-36 focus is on the broken off Group with the conclusion in vs 26. ( And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:)

PLEASE READ ROMANS 11.

This is not talking about the Church, They're already mentioned throughout these 3 chapters as already saved.

Gad bless.

Romans 9:6-7 seems to bolster what you are saying. Also Galatians 6:16 as to both believing parties being part of the true church. There are; admittedly certain verses that would seem to suggest that final prophetic fulfillment of O.T. prophecies fit into the church Age; particularly in the Book of Acts. Many of these promises only appear partially fulfilled; that would be demonstrated in those verses coming from Joel; or Psalm 1 which will not be completed until the Tribulation and Second Coming of Christ. Because of this; I sort of see a Covenant as well as Dispensational aspect to scripture. Most prophecy has multiple fulfillments with one final one in scripture; some don't like to attest to that reality to pinpoint their own eschatological or other doctrinal stance. I try to take these principles in my comments with many other facets of the Word; such as predestination and the fact that God works through man's "free will" to bring His plans about; clearly seen with Christ's crucifixion.

Rightly dividing the Word takes maturity and much practice and study. That affects our view of the "once saved always saved" concept vs the many warnings about falling away; for example.

As to Israel vs the church; a careful reading of scripture shows us that there are certain conditional and unconditional promises in either example. An eternal God of covenants has eternal things in His heart; thus the only thing that has passed away was the old covenant of the law which God Himself had; in His wisdom designed to eventually be replaced by Christ's atoning sacrifice instituting the New Covenant. The "great parenthesis" between the O.T. and Revelation (or between Daniel's 69th and 70th week) is partially hidden; therefore with certain aspects being revealed as related to the church in this "dispensation". There are already a few Gentiles who come to faith in the O.T.; just like signs today in Israel that show a shadow of what is to come in the future.

Thanks Richard.

Very well stated Brother!

God bless you and all you do for this site.