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BIBLE DISCUSSION THREAD 217183 Page 2

Bible Discussion Thread Page 2

 
  • Bro dan - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Hi Chris,

    It is a widely held established view that the Bible is "The word of God" in particular considerable effort was put into the KJV Bible by highly capable language experts in Greek/Hebrew/English to interpret and transcribe God's words correctly. I believe most would agree that this is true.

    1 John 3:6 This verse is from God's mouth. It's meaning is clear. It only becomes unclear if we have a reason to dilute it, minimize it, or ignore it to fit a particular doctrine.

    The verse is literal, and again very clear "Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not"

    God tells us we can't abide with Him, and sin at the same time. At the time we sin we begin to serve the devil. As long as we continue sinning we are serving Satan. God gives us the will to make the choice to serve him by refraining from sin, and He tells us there is a consequence. What is that consequence? Separation from God during the time(s) we sin, if continual sin - eventually death, and hell, as opposed to eternal life with him.

    If we are sinning more than staying true to God, we are separated from Him more than we are with Him. God hopes, and we as Christians hope that we can sin less, and remain with God more and more, as our faith and strength to refrain from sin improves. Hopefully, we can get to a state of sinlessness, this would then conform with Jesus telling us that if we had stronger faith - nothing is impossible for us! Matt 17:20

    Does this take effort on our part, yes, and it is God's/Jesus command that we do. John 5:14 John 5:18

    If we as Christians continue to tell each other "we can never stop sinning" we are telling God/Jesus that we don't believe that we can even with the Cross/Holy Spirit -if so we should STOP and rethink our path. I believe this weakness with sin relates directly back to our lack of faith that Jesus emphasized in his Gospel.

    Are we really pursuing God, or are we performing mouth service, while pursuing worldly things and Sin.

    GBU
  • Chris - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Page 1.

    I do agree Bro. Dan of the great work & expertise applied to the KJV, to make it the best we can have in our hands. Yet, without laboring this point of how the translators understood the Hebrew, Aramaic, & Greek languages & then used English words to reflect their understanding, the fact is that the Truth lies in those languages & not wholly in translation work. There are always going to be differences in how words are used & even understood in past centuries, and so it is with 1 John 3:6. We read it as given as we are taught to read; so we would correctly say, that since "sinneth not" means 'does no sin', therefore, those who claim to abide in Christ, simply do not sin. And I've already shared what I understand is the Greek rendering of that verse.

    But assuming that the verse is to be understood as given: that the one abiding in Christ does not sin (not even one); if he does sin, it proves he doesn't know Christ at all. Sorry, I have transliterated the verse to emphasize your point. Based on this, I'm not at all referring to one living a life of sin, or even slipping up & momentarily sin overtaking him; I'm referring to even one sin that proves that we really don't know Him & are hypocrites. I read your last sentence, "are we really pursuing God, or are we performing mouth service, while pursuing worldly things and Sin". This sounds like you're referring to a life that's in pursuit of & enjoying things sin-related. I don't speak of such a practise, but of just one sin that prevents us from abiding in Christ & He in us. Onto Page 2.
  • Chris - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Page 2. Bro. Dan.

    Maybe some actual recent personal examples are reluctantly called for: I'm out shopping & someone barges past me in a hurry, knocking me to the side; or, the next day, the solar system technician fails to keep to his appointment that I've been waiting all day for; then the third day, a person walking her dog fails to control it & the dog manages to make contact on my leg with its teeth. Three different days, three different sins as I failed to take adequate control of my internal responses: not having a total peace, calmness & understanding in those situations if Christ by His Spirit was truly abiding in me. I'm sorry to write in such a manner, but I'm earnestly trying to find out if no-one else finds these 'daily' sins popping up in their lives or is it just me, or maybe, others don't regard such matters as sins. If 1 John 3:6 is as you read it, I am lost & without hope. I'm earnestly working on my internal feelings in such situations as I gave, but till then, sin has its control over me, & should I die shortly, I'm doomed. So then, what is sin? If abiding by the Decalogue determines it, then I think I'm a sinless specimen, but if under the working of the Spirit, I fall short & always will while sin appeals to the flesh.

    Maybe "we can get to a state of sinlessness" as you say, but if we don't in our lifetime, then we not only never had Christ abiding in us, but we actually belong to the devil, simply because we have committed even that one sin, never finding freedom from it or any other sin. That would be an awful state to live in, if those verses are read & interpreted as given. GBU.
  • Bro dan - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Hi Chris,

    You state: Maybe "we can get to a state of sinlessness" as you say,

    It is not as I say, it is Jesus in Matt 17:20 and John in 1 John 3:6 and 1 John 3:9 and ultimately God, as the bible and all scripture if of God.

    I'm accepting what God is telling us in these verses. These verses are tough Love, aren't meant to keep the sinful status quo, they are meant to wake us up! God does not want us to live the rest of our lives in sin.

    You state: but if we don't in our lifetime, then we not only never had Christ abiding in us, but we actually belong to the devil, simply because we have committed even that one sin,

    It is not just about "one sin". It's about a lifetime of continual sin. You must see this; if we continue to tell each other and believe we can never stop sinning, we will in fact lead a lifetime in sin.

    If we commit one sin or multiple sins - at the time we commit that sin - we are not abiding in God. Anytime we are sinning we are Not abiding in God - we are abiding in Satan. If we repent and ask for forgiveness God will forgive us. But we must be sincere and stop the habitual repeating of sin.

    You state: never finding freedom from it or any other sin. That would be an awful state to live in, if those verses are read & interpreted as given

    Yes, I agree with you, that it is an awful state to live in sin, and these verses interpreted as given by God: are exactly meant to make us feel awful, hopefully to motivate us to really make changes, and work with Him and His Holy Spirit to rid ourselves of all sin. Is it better that we feel awful here on earth, if it promotes us to make the changes to accommodate Gods commands and receive His blessings ultimately winning the prize, and receiving eternal life in His Kingdom. Matt 18:22 Mark 9:43

    In summary: God tells us not to sin - throughout the bible. I do not see one place - that God tells us sin is acceptable to Him. If you do, please present the scripture.

    GBU

    You
  • Chris - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Bro. Dan. As I stated, "but if we don't (attain sinlessness) in our lifetime, then we not only never had Christ abiding in us...simply because we have committed even that one sin"; & you wrote, "It is not just about "one sin". It's about a lifetime of continual sin"; I was given to understand that 1 John 3:6,9 showed that abiding in Christ meant that NO sin would be committed, not "a lifetime of continual sin".

    Whereas I referred to the Greek & Giannis also gave his take on it, refuting the belief that if we are truly His then no sin would be found in us (for that is what the Scripture states, "doth NOT commit sin". i.e. an impossibility to sin since Christ is in us & we in Him). Not "a habitual repeating of sin" here, for no sincere true believer would ever find delight in such a state, but committing just ONE sin - this is what we're dealing with here as pertaining to the Scriptures.

    Then you referred to 1 John 1:9, which is a verse I fully accept because we still sin, yet finding forgiveness, with a determination to put that sin(s) aside. But that verse applies to those overtaken by a sin - it wouldn't apply to any who have no sin, as 1 John 3:6,9 apparently implies. Therefore, I think that your quote, "It is not just about "one sin" - It's about a lifetime of continual sin", may be what's causing us confusion. Are you thinking of someone speaking lies, committing adultery, etc. continuously without repentance or restraint? Or, are you including those three examples I shared when the Spirit alerts one that sin is committed when an isolated persistent thought or feeling arises, yet with no evidence of an outward expression or tantrum? I deal with sin as it surfaces but I won't live in a false spiritual bubble trying to believe that I will never fall into some sin & that sinless perfection is a present experience. Yes, we must strive to deal with sin & be holy but to believe that sin will never rear its ugly head, is beyond the whole biblical message. Blessings.
  • Bro dan - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Chris,

    The thread Our Addiction to Sin, is becoming too long. I'm responding to your question in a new thread here so we can continue on with the Sin subject.

    You state: I was given to understand that 1 John 3:6,9 showed that abiding in Christ meant that NO sin would be committed, not "a lifetime of continual sin".

    Yes, I agree with the scripture: If we believe it and strive to get there, we will eventually get to that perfection where we know Him perfectly and we abide in him perfectly. If we say we can't, then we will not even try to get started, and guarantee our failure!

    You state: Therefore, I think that your quote, "It is not just about "one sin" - It's about a lifetime of continual sin", may be what's causing us confusion.

    God knows that it will take us time to change and bring us into him, to make this happen 1 John 3:6 and 1 John 3:9 You and others seem to want to ignore/disregard/dismiss these verses by any means. God gave us his Son to provide us the means to receive forgiveness of sin. He gave us His Holy Spirit to strengthen and teach us - to make the impossible possible! So to reiterate, it's not about one sin, or a few sins, he has promised he would forgive us if we are sincere and we are truly repenting.

    By repenting it means we promise that we will get the sin out of our life. If we say we can't get the sin out of our life we will continue to sin - that my friend is not repenting. That's what I mean when I say it's not about one sin - it's about continual sinning without making the serious effort to stop. A half hearted effort will not get us there. It becomes a never ending sin/forgiveness/repeat/sin/forgiveness/repeat on and on throughout our lives.

    Cont. to page 2
  • Plaintalk - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Brother Dan:

    There is only ONE SIN ..... UNBELIEF .....all other sins are COVERED by the blood of Christ.

    John 16:8 And when HE IS COME, he (the Holy Ghost) will reprove the world of SIN .... UNBELIEF ..... the HOLY Ghost is going to rule the world with a rod or iron (truth and mercy)

    John 16:9 OF SIN, because they BELIEVE NOT on me (THE WORD) .....

    Most believe Jesus came for the WORKS of the cross ..... they don't BELIEVE those WORKS ....

    ALL BODIES DIED (yours, mine, and Christ's) on the cross 2000 years ago; ONLY ONE BODY arose, the BODY of CHRIST.

    1 Corinthians 12:27 ... NOW ye are the BODY of Christ ..... who did NO SIN .....

    There is NO .... I, me, myself ... ONLY ONE BODY .... the body of Christ ..... all creation, the NEW CREATION ....

    John 17:22 And the glory that thou (the Spirit that raised Christ) has given me, I have GIVEN THEM (the new creation) that they may be ONE as we are ONE.

    If you don't BELIEVE his WORDS your continuing in SIN ..... if you BELIEVE his WORDS you CANNOT SIN .... your just doing what Christ WILLS and Causes you TO DO.

    Colossians 1:27 ..... this MYSTERY .... Christ in YOU ......

    Ezekiel 36:27 And I (the Holy Ghost) will put my Spirit IN YOU (his body) and CAUSE you to walk in my statutes, and keep my judgements, and DO THEM.

    Philippians 2:13 For it is God that WORKETH IN YOU both to WILL and to do his good pleasure.

    Most don't BELIEVE the WORD.

    God is giving you eyes to SEE his truth, your Christ's BODY, he is causing you to DO his good pleasure; therefore, you; his body, CANNOT SIN, because it's HIS WORKS, not your works.

    Revelation 2:26 ....and he that keepeth MY WORKS to the end, to him will I give power over the nations ....as I have been given of my Father .....

    God bless you as Christ CAUSES us to walk in TRUTH.
  • GiGi - In Reply - 1 year ago
    I think you are Earl Bowman posting again another a new name. Can I ask why you don't sign on as Earl anymore, if that is who you are? It just seems strange to me that in the year and a half I have been on this site, Earl has posted under at least 5 or 6 different names. It would be helpful to us if you are Earl that you would stick to one name and identify yourself as Earl somewhere in the post if your posting name is something other than Earl.

    If this is not Earl, then just know that your ideas and style of posting is very similar to Earl's, so

    please forgive me if I am in error as to your identity.
  • Plaintalk - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Sister GiGi:

    Someone dislikes my posting and comments and complains to administration, who in turn off the ability to sign in under that name.

    You and others call me a false prophet, someone complains and has me cut off.

    God bless you.
  • GiGi - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Hello again Earl,

    My first post to you was seeking to know why you post on here with so many different names. I would love it if you would go back to posting as Earl.
  • GiGi - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Hello Earl, I have never reported you to admin.
  • Plaintalk - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Sister GiGi:

    I never said nor believed you complained to administration, others read your comments and can react to those comments.

    We are ALL the BODY of Christ, by the resurrection of Christ, ALL have become ONE, even our prodigal sons, even though they have not AS YET come to that truth, they will be DRAWN back to CHRIST.

    God speaks of things that ARE NOT, as if they ALREADY ARE.

    John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, I WILL draw ALL MEN unto me.

    Genesis 18:14 ... at the TIME APPOINTED, I will return to thee, according to the TIME of LIFE ....

    John 14:6 I am the way, the truth and the LIFE.

    God Bless YOU
  • GiGi - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Dear Earl, thanks for your response.

    I just wanted you to understand that I did not report you in any way.

    If others choose to do so, I guess that is allowed on this forum as well.

    Thank you for the encouragement concerning prodigal children. I believe that God will not abandon the work of His hands, but will accomplish what He has foreordained for my sons.

    I agree we are the body of Christ, but not in the same way you do. We are still individual beings and will always be so, but being in Christ is that we have become one with Him as in marriage. A husband and a wife become one flesh but still remain two separate beings, but the union God performs when people get married is a mystery and not perceivable to the natural eye. Same with our union with Christ. He is still one person and we all are our own separate persons in Him, but the unity is not physically perceived, nor a physical reality.

    Earl, I hope you are doing well. I am happy to know that you are here with us and if you mention that you are Earl in your posts if you post under a different name, that will help me to know who I am speaking with when I respond. That is important to me. It is not as if we haven't developed some relationship over the past year and a half, and I want to keep this in mind when I read your posts and when I respond. God's blessing to you tonight.
  • S Spencer - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Earl it's likely if you're locked out it would more likely by locking you out by your email not your name. Perhaps?

    If they locked you out because someone reported you for changing your name, they would have had to report you six times.

    They have moderators that unlike most of us, review every post and reply and you do stand out.

    Here's one of the guidelines they enforce;

    Use a consistent name and valid email for one account. Commenters are welcome to use a username instead of your real name, but it is not allowed to change this name in effort to conceal your identity or to have more than one identity. The email address entered must be a valid email address you can receive an email to. A valid email will allow you to know when you receive a reply, will allow you to manage and download your comments, and allow for easier technical support. Only one account is permitted per person.

    They will allow you to use a consistent name no matter what you teach.

    God bless.
  • GiGi - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Thanks S. Spencer for this clarification.
  • S Spencer - In Reply - 1 year ago
    You're welcome Gigi.

    God bless you.
  • Plaintalk - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Brother SSpencer:

    I am not trying to hid my identity, whatever the problem, the site ceases to let me log in and make comments without creating a new account.

    God Bless you.
  • S Spencer - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Hi Earl.

    They made changes a little while back.

    I remember I also had to re-register.

    I had to post under my first name.

    "Steven"

    It had something to do with having to sign in.

    God bless.
  • S Spencer - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Hi Earl.
  • GiGi - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Earl, have you contacted the admin (see links at bottom of home page) and asked the reason for this? I hope you find out why and that it can be resolved.
  • Jema - In Reply - 1 year ago
    That's a very petty thing for anyone to do , the only people I ever report are those who give their ages as under 21 . I don't agree with everyone on here but would never try to silence anyone . Hope you are able to stay around with us :) .
  • GiGi - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Hi Jema,

    I, too, do not report people because I want people to be free to participate on here.
  • Bro dan - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Plaintalk

    We have already been warned about you.

    Acts 20:28-30

    Matthew 7:15-16

    The sheep you are looking for - do not hear your voice.

    Matthew 10:27-30

    My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and my Father are one.
  • Bro dan - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Chris Page 2

    So then, we never achieve the perfection with God that he desires/requires from us! If we accept that we can't stop sinning -We are saying we will spend some time with God, and spend some time with Satan. God tells us we can't serve both! We need to eventually get sin out of our life so we are serving God only!

    You state: "I deal with sin as it surfaces but I won't live in a false spiritual bubble " Chris If we are sinning we are living in Satan's bubble! What can be worse than that? If, we can break free from sin, we can really say we are free!

    You state: "Yes, we must strive to deal with sin & be holy but to believe that sin will never rear its ugly head, is beyond the whole biblical message." Sin will not rear its ugly head IF we don't give into the temptation! It's the temptation that we must overcome. We must work on overcoming temptation, as sin will not occur if we don't succumb to it. 1 John 3:8

    GBU
  • Chris - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Thanks again Bro. Dan. I can understand what you're writing should be the ideal, where the believer continues to try and get on top of his sin(s), with the help of the Spirit, & not to give up in his endeavor. And you stated, "If we believe it (i.e. that no sin is to be committed) and strive to get there, we will eventually get to that perfection where we know Him perfectly and we abide in him perfectly."

    Do you really think that you will reach that perfection in this life? Here, I'm not referring to someone just giving up on dealing with sin or even taking sin lightly in his life, but that he will reach a stage in this life of no sin being found in him? And what happens in the meantime, when what he believes is possible, actually is impossible - sin ever revealing itself without abating? And even the Apostle Paul realized this in Romans 7:23-25: though he was wholly inclined to being clean before the Lord, there was a law continually working in him that kept him in captivity to sin's presence. How wretched he felt that this dichotomy should exist in one so mightily touched by the Spirit & being used of God. Did he ever gain victory? He knew his deliverance was found only in Jesus, whether by receiving His continual forgiveness or when he would be ushered into His Presence. But while in the body, he resigned himself that his mind (heart) would only serve & please the Lord, whilst his flesh would be subject to sin, with its continual appearing. You may have a different take on this, but I see that as with Paul, so also with us, the struggle with sin will never cease.

    As well, we might be strong in not giving into temptation - ever - but sin appears even when not being tempted (such as I gave in those examples a couple of days ago). That was the natural outworking of the flesh - giving inward responses in situations that were generally considered normal by the world, but were sin as far as the Lord is concerned & I needed correction. GBU
  • Frankie J - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Hi Chris

    Your honesty & plainness of speech is admirable, & your struggles touch my heart, we all experience these working within our conscience. & to James 4:7, To all that would desire freedom from sin, God does His great work of redemption in these everyday ordinary experiences in life to cleanse us from all sin, Seek to understand the Cross & it will separate you from this sinful carnal nature.

    No Cross No Crown, William Penn Chapter 1-8

    In love & truth
  • David0921 - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Hello Bro dan,

    I have been directing my comments to Chris for reasons that I have stated in my comments to him. However I felt compelled to respond to you directly regarding a very important truth which you seem to be missing.

    When it comes to the Nature of our Salvation, that Salvation, as applied to our life, is only PARTIALLY COMPLETE when we have become BORN AGAIN. As long as we exist on this sin-cursed earth as a "saved" individual, we have only become "saved" in our SOUL existence. And our new Resurrected SOUL still resides in a BODY that has not been "saved" and still lusts after sin. Our Salvation will not be completed until the Last Day when Christ returns to Resurrect and Rapture every TRUE BELIEVER in giving them their Resurrected Spiritual BODY which will then be united with their Resurrected SOUL to form a complete SINLESS PERSONALITY in which they will never sin again.

    That said, if we have become BORN AGAIN, which is the case for every TRUE BELIEVER, we will have an ERNEST and ONGOING DESIRE to turn away from sin in our life as we "Grow in Grace" as God works in our life to "will and to do of His good pleasure". And if we don't find that reality in our life, we have every reason to question whether or not we have become a TRUE BELIEVER. But we will not and CANNOT become a sinless personality until we have become "saved" both in SOUL and BODY. And that, apart from a handful of individuals like Moses, Enoch and Elijah who are in Heaven both in their Spiritual SOUL and BODY, will not occur until the Resurrection and Rapture at the Last Day.
  • Bro dan - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Hi David,

    Thanks for your input regarding this subject of sin. Your are stating something that most Christians (including myself) have been taught to believe over many years. You stated: But we will not and CANNOT become a sinless personality until we have become "saved" both in SOUL and BODY. If we can't, then why did Jesus give us His Holy Spirit? John3:6-7 1John 3:9. John1:12

    I mean no disrespect here, but you are reiterating the mindset of millions of Christians. I accepted this view for years, and didn't begin to question it until recently. Common sense tells me that if we convince ourselves the we CANNOT do something -we can assure ourselves that we will NEVER accomplish our goal. Our goal according to God/Jesus is to stop sinning! John 5:14 John 8:11

    Matthew 17:20

    "And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you."

    I believe that our failure to stop sinning is directly related to our faith. If Jesus tells us we can move a mountain he is telling us that we can stop sinning.

    David you are saying that we can't stop sinning even with God's Holy Spirit which in direct contradiction to Matt 17:20 with Jesus telling us directly - "nothing shall be impossible unto you" do you believe this? Something that we all need to think about.

    GBU
  • Chris - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Just a quick comment here, Bro. Dan. I don't believe that any Christian, at least here on these pages, would ever advocate that we can just continue sinning because we can never get victory over sin - this I have state numerous times here over the years. In my other discussions over this matter, it was my stating that sin never leaves us & we ought to use all the resources given us by the Spirit to deal with the flesh & the Devil. But the fact remains that we can never be free from sin in this life - at least I've not met anyone who genuinely believes that he/she has reached that state & is now sinless (not just disobedience to the Ten Commandments, but to all sin).

    And yes, 'we should encourage each other to stop sinning' but the converse is also true, especially for those who find that there is still some persistent sin(s) evident. And that is, that sin will always be at our door & we will always succumb, but we ought to see greater victory in our lives than greater defeat. So, I believe that teaching on this subject should be balanced. As far as John 5:14 & John 8:11 goes, I don't think that when Jesus told these two "to sin no more" that they subsequently reached a state of sinlessness. Rather, that they should no longer entertain that sin that caused their downfall. They probably still had more sins that they had to deal with. Blessings.
  • Bro dan - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Hi Jema,

    Did I say that I am not a sinner? If so, please show me where I stated that.

    I presented scripture showing where Jesus expects Christians (including myself) to make a serious effort to stop sinning while on this earth. Why would Jesus tell us to stop sinning if it was not something we could do? Do you think it is impossible? Jesus tells us it is possible, and that he expects us to work toward that goal.

    Again, my point is, we should be encouraging each other to stop sinning, rather than saying we will always be sinners, reinforcing this defeatist mindset, which is totally in disagreement with what Jesus expects from us in John 5:14 and John 8:11

    If we believe in our heart and mind that we CAN"T stop sinning then we never will. The Holy Spirit can change our heart and mind!

    GBU
  • Jema - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Hi , I think I'm confused . Are you saying that you don't sin ?
  • Jema - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Hi Brother Dan , I'm sorry if I offended you , I was genuinely confused and my question to you was an honest , straight forward one , sorry if I gave the impression that it wasn't .
  • Bro dan - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Hi Jema,

    Please be assured I'm not offended:)

    And hope I didn't offend you or others - just presenting the scripture as I see it, and believe that I'm currently questioning the status qou as it applies to the Christain mindset regarding sin.

    GBU
  • Jema - In Reply - 1 year ago
    No worries Bro Dan , it's not always easy to tell a person's tone when it's just text , glad we two are ok :) .


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