Bible Discussion Thread

 
  • BOB W - 1 year ago
    must one be baptized with water to be saved?
  • Bro dan - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Hi Bob,

    Yes, the scriptures are crystal clear on this.

    The scriptures make it very clear that every Christian has to be baptized, Matthew 28:19

    "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:"

    This is also how we receive God's Holy Spirit, Acts 2:38 says, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."

    GBU
  • BOB W - In Reply - 1 year ago
    thank you friend.
  • Jema - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Also Bob , as a Christian , I believe that the Bible should be taken as a whole , not two different testaments , the old is a foreshadow of the new and the parallels are not coincidental . 2nd Kings chapter five is in fact a foreshadow of the new covenant in Christ , which allows the gentiles access to the God of all creation . If you have the time and inclination , add this chapter to the other two that I gave you . 2nd Kings chapter 5 verse 13 stands out ri

    brght and clear . How can anyone who believes that the old is as relevant to us as the new , ignore this chapter and it's deep significance ? Sorry if I sound a bit dogmatic , the Truth is in the Bible , the whole Bible , and none of it is there by chance , it has been written by God for our instruction . The Levites were given very specific instructions about how they were to approach God , it's the same for us , I believe .
  • BOB W - In Reply - 1 year ago
    thank you, i will study those verses you pointed out. again, i was baptized as a child, does this count for nothing?
  • Jema - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Dear Bob , I can only give you my opinion based on what I have read in the Bible . If I was in your shoes I would want to read the Bible for myself , be sure that I understood the Gospel of the Kingdom and the things pertaining to the Holy One of Israel and His only begotten Son Jesus Christ and the be baptized by full immersion by someone qualified to perform the baptism . Read the Bible for yourself Bob , especially those verses but all of it is enlightening and wonderful . Be convinced in your own heart and mind before making the commitment and may God guide you into His Truth .
  • Andy. - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

    First one must turn (repent) from what God considers sin.

    second, be completely immersed (baptized) in water while calling on and believing Jesus, (just as Jesus and all new converts were baptized.)

    and third you will have the Holy Spirit.

    These 3 signify: your death to sin as Jesus died for our sin. Your burial as Jesus was intombed (buried). And your new life guided by God whereas Jesus rose from the dead and was glorified.

    Revelation 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
  • BOB W - In Reply - 1 year ago
    thank you.
  • Jema - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Nicely put Andy , Amen to you .
  • S Spencer - In Reply - 1 year ago
    You're welcome Bob.

    And I concur with David.

    God bless.
  • David0921 - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Bob W,

    Water Baptism does not contribute to our Salvation in any way whatsoever. It is not a requirement for Salvation, it does not guarantee our Salvation, it does not seal us so that we will not lose our Salvation.

    Water Baptism during the Church Age, like Circumcision in the Old Testament, was a sign pointing to some aspect of the Nature of Salvation. In this case the washing away of our sins by God Himself when God applies His Salvation to our life in saving us.

    Ezekiel 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

    The Baptism that saves is the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, God Himself. Water Baptism is a sign and a symbol of the Baptism that God performs.

    Do not fall into the snare of trusting in Water Baptism as contributing to your Salvation in some way. Unfortunately that is what National Israel did to a high degree with regard to the Ceremonial Laws. And what many of the New Testament Churches have done to one degree or another.
  • BOB W - In Reply - 1 year ago
    thank you.
  • Adam - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Would you agree that baptism is a command?

    "The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:" 1 Peter 3:21 KJV

    Does this verse above say baptism doth NOT save us, or that it does? I didn't write this, God did. Are your words in perfect alignment with what God said here? Does it say that baptism is unimportant and should be avoided and definitely do NOT be baptized or does it say the opposite of that?

    Mark 16:16

    Acts 2:38

    Matthew 28:19

    John 3:5

    Ephesians 4:5

    It sure seems very important based on these verses, do you agree? Blatant disobedience is not a sign of a true Christian according to what the Bible says.

    John 15:10

    I've never understood how someone can call himself a Christian but aim to do the very minimum they assume they need to do in order to get to heaven. I don't think Jesus is a bare minimum type of being. He wants all of you like the greatest commandment says: Matthew 22:37-38. It doesn't say love God with only part of your heart and pick and choose whatever you're comfortable with in obeying and its totally cool if you don't do 50% of the stuff in the Bible. The life of a Christian is to be a slave to righteousness. It's not just a get out of hell free card to enjoy following satan and do whatever lust the heart desires. Most will cry Lord Lord at the end assuming they're saved, but will not be. These are people that tell everyone they're saved and will be devastated on how they got it wrong and actually didn't love Jesus like they claimed.
  • Alex7 - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Adam when ya preach water baptism for the remission of sins saves us you are in essence saying the Cross was insufficient.....Thats y the lord was so upset with Peter commanding water baptism.....Telling Peter 3 times what i have made clean ( by the blood of my son ) do not call common or unclean..... Acts 10:15....

    All the unclean animals in that great sheet was ( humanity ) the Church that was made clean by the blood of the lamb of God.....Not water baptism that Peter was commanding.....In Acts 11:15.....Once Peter understood the vision he said then i remembered the words of our Lord.....John baptised you with water but i will baptise you with the H.G. and fire......Peter neva commands water baptism again for the remission of sins after Acts 11.....Even in the O.T. without the shedding of BLOOD THERE WAS NO REMISSION OF SINS......When ya tell folks they need water baptism FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS you are in essence saying the CROSS that New COVENANT IN HIS BLOOD was insufficent.....Thats y the Lord was so upset with Peter commanding water baptism for the remission of sins....When Jesus said its finished there is absolutely Nothing else can be added....No kind of a work....k gbu
  • Adam - In Reply - 1 year ago
    No, it isn't. When someone shares God's truth it honors God. Like these verses:

    Mark 16:16

    Acts 2:38

    Matthew 28:19

    John 3:5

    Ephesians 4:5

    It already says what it says and means what it means, whether someone likes it or not. You can't pick and choose which scriptures you like or dislike like a buffet-style Christianity. I don't think Jesus would approve of that. Water baptism sure was important to Jesus, so much so He was baptized Himself as an example. Wow, God was water baptized so there's no doubt whatsoever what someone needs to do to follow Jesus. Seems like a pretty big crystal clear sign, but people will still find excuses and rationalizations to disobey as they always do.
  • Jema - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Amen to you Adam .
  • David0921 - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Yes Adam.

    Baptism does save us. But not water baptism. What saves us is the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, as God Himself applies His Salvation to our life in washing away our sins.

    Water Baptism is a sign and a symbol of God's action and has no efficacy in itself. It is, in fact, a work that we do; not a work that God does.

    And if we are trusting in any work that we do to save us, we are trusting in a works-grace gospel that cannot save.
  • Adam - In Reply - 1 year ago
    That's nice, but the scripture I shared says what it says.

    Christianity does involve action. You can call that works if it pleases you, but that's like calling God's commands "works" and trying to discredit what God says. Is believing God's Word "works" to you? Is obeying God "works" to you? Is loving Jesus "works" to you?
  • David0921 - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Yes Adam. The True Believer will have an ernest and ongoing desire to do the will of God, to do good works, to be obedient to God's Law, the Bible, both in doctrine and in practice. And we will have a love for God.

    But that desire and that obedience and that love will come from a New Nature that God has given the True Believer when we become Born Again in our Soul by the action of God in saving us. By the Baptism of God the Holy Spirit. And none of that obedience will INITIATE nor CONTRIBUTE TO nor ENSURE our Salvation in any way. That desire and obedience and love will be the RESULT of our Salvation, and the EVIDENCE of our Salvation, because our Salvation is by God's GRACE ALONE, a gift from God in His Mercy. And not of our works in any sense.
  • Adam - In Reply - 1 year ago
    James 2:14-26 already explains this. You might consider taking a look at that passage.

    It sounds like you're assuming once someone becomes a Christian that he doesn't have much responsibility to obedience, that God does it all? If that is your belief what scriptures do you feel support that?

    You speak of a new nature. Do you feel like this nature is instantly and fully given by God or that it something a Christian develops into maturity? Which do you think comes first- this nature you say God gives that forces the follower to obey regardless of his freewill, or that the follower genuinely decides to obey and then is blessed by God?

    The Bible I'm reading says in many places we have responsibility, especially ongoing responsibility as Christ followers. Proof of this is Paul writing many of his books to churches who were already believers, warning them of backsliding and avoiding sin. If God 100% controls people's actions as followers instead of the followers, why then would Paul write so many warnings to Christians? And if God is 100% controlling of people, does that mean God is responsible for causing sin when a Christian inevitably sins as the Bible says we all do? These are things to consider on this topic.

    I think Christians are 100% responsible for their own actions, whether obedience or not and that excuses are used to justify sin and disobedience, which is another clever satanic deception.
  • David0921 - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Adam,

    I do think you are not reading my comments carefully. What makes you think that I'm saying a True Believer should not be concerned about being obedient to God's commandments? I believe that the passage in James is precisely in line with what I'm saying about the Nature of Salvation.

    What I am saying, or at least trying to say, is that our obedience to God's Commandments, the Law of God, the Bible is the EVIDENCE of our Salvation and the RESULT of our Salvation. But it is never the CAUSE of our Salvation. And if we do not see an increased EVIDENCE of obedience to God in our life and a real "want to" in our life to do the will of God, God in all likelyhood has not yet "saved" us. And that is what the Bible in James is teaching.

    So let me ask you a few questions to help me understand your belief regarding the Nature of Salvation, if I may.

    What is Mankind's condition before God has "saved" us?

    What does it mean to become Born Again? What has happened to us at that moment?

    How will our attitude and behavior toward God and the Bible change when we have become Born Again?

    Is it possible to have assurance in our life that we indeed have become a child of God? How can we know that?

    If we indeed have become Born Again, i.e. God has indeed "saved" us, can we lose our Salvation?

    If Christ has paid for each and every one of the sins that His Elect will ever commit, is He obligated to at some point in their life to apply that Salvation to their life, and to keep them from falling away, and to complete their Salvation at the Last Day?

    Or, as some would teach, did Christ actually pay for the sins of every Human Being and it is now up to US to "ACCEPT" that Salvation and do other things in order for that Salvation to become effective in our life and to be completed at the Last Day?

    Thank you Adam
  • Adam - In Reply - 1 year ago
    The only thing that matters is what the Bible says.

    You might be misleading people by de-emphasizing some verses while focusing narrowly on other verses.

    "If ye love me, keep my commandments." John 14:15 KJV

    Why would Jesus say this if people automatically obeyed? Jesus didn't say if you love me you will automatically keep my commandments. He didn't say if you responded to an altar call once when you were 12 you will automatically love me and automatically keep my commandments. Over and over He challenged is followers (Christians) to mature and grow. It's a choice. It takes effort. Many followers in the Bible messed up on occasion and chose sin instead of obedience and had consequences. Those who claim God is going to serve you and that you don't have to put in any effort whatsoever are misleading others with a falsehood. The Bible says we are to become slaves to righteousness. Slaves. Not everyone is willing to live the life as a Christian. Many will cry Lord, Lord in the end assuming sitting on the couch was enough to get in the gate. Loving and obeying does not automatically mean someone is trying to earn salvation, we hear this straw man argument all the time. But genuinely following Jesus and transforming takes intentional effort. Reading the Bible reveals many examples of this.

    Have a nice day.
  • S Spencer - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Well stated David.

    God bless.
  • Jema - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Dear Bob , the entire book of Acts is very helpful on this subject , in particular chapters 8+10 . May God guide you into His Truth.
  • BOB W - In Reply - 1 year ago
    I will study these chapters.

    Thank you Jema
  • BOB W - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Thank you Jema, I will study those chapters.
  • S Spencer - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Hi Bob.

    Water baptism only saves the believer in type.

    It's an outward ritual of the work of our Lord on the cross. It's your open testimony.

    The Old Testament Jew was saved before he brought the offering. That offering was only his outward testimony that he was placing faith in the Lamb of God of whom these sacrifices were a type....Water baptism is the outward testimony of the believer's inward faith. The person is saved the moment he places his faith in the Lord Jesus.

    God bless.
  • BOB W - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Thank you for your time and comforting insights, I do appreciate it.

    Bob
  • Jema - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Hi Bob , I believe that a covenant is usually sealed in some way , for the Jews God asked that the males be circumsized , for Christians ( the new covenant in Christ ) I believe that adults who have at least a basic understanding of the Truth that pertains to the Holy One of Israel and His Only Begotten Son , are required to be baptised by full immersion in water and I believe I can back that up in scripture . I am also happy to admit that it's up to God who is saved and there may be times when a person is unable to be baptized for various reasons that are out of their control . It's not for any of us humans to decide who is and who isn't saved but where there is clear instruction in the Bible I think we should follow it . I would never dare to say to anyone who hadn't been baptized , that they are not saved , they have the Bible the same as I do , they read the same Word , if someone doesn't believe after reading it , that they need to be baptized then that's up to them , it's not my place to tell them any different . For me personally , I couldn't rest untill I had been baptized , I believe that everything I had ever done , my entire life before my baptism , was gone , didn't exist , any sins that I commited before my baptism were gone , I felt like a new born baby , clean and new and truly alive , alive in Christ . Best moment of my life . If you know the Truth and have read the entire Bible , you do what the Spirit of Truth tells you to .
  • BOB W - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Thank you for your thoughtful comments. I was baptized as a child but am not sure where exactly that puts me. You've given me things to ponder. again thank you for your time and comments.

    Bob



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