Bible Discussion Thread

New Covenant vs Old Covenant.

When comparing the two I believe the difference is in fruit barring.

This is something that can only be done by being connected to the genuine vine. John 15:1-5.

We can do nothing without Christ.

These verses and many others is tied to this "working of the Holyspirit."

Romans 6:5-10.

Romans 8:11.

This is the life giving spirit that we get once we truly believe.

This is baptism!

This is Christ in us, and we in him.

Jesus said that those who abide in Him will bear much fruit. That fruit is more than ministry results, it is also the evidence of a life lived in God.

IF WE'RE CONNECTED TO THE VINE WE WILL BARE FRUIT!

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Galatians 5:22-23

This is what the natural man can not do and what the OLD COVENANT couldn't produce.

Galatians 5:17-18 says; "For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

BUT IF YE BE LED OF THE SPIRIT, YE ARE NOT UNDER THE LAW"

Also see.

Matthew 7:18.

Salvation is inward. It's a new heart that CAUSES you to produce fruit.

It's not forced by command.

Christ put his life giving Holyspirit IN you, and that "Holyspirit in you" won't turn you from him.

It would be turning him from himself.

Again; This is Christ in you, and we in him.

Ephesians 4:30 is something the law and the Old covenant couldn't do. See; " Galatians 5:17-18"

Now what you do, it is he that works in you! Philippians 2:13.

By fruit we shall know them and by it, we can examine ourselves also.

We can use Galatians 5:19-26 as a guide.

Ephesians 4:1-16 is what every Christian should keep by his side.

God bless.

To S Spencer - I beg to disagree with what you stated.

Firstly, the 8 verses in John 15:1-8 certainly refer to Christians being grafted into Jesus so as to produce the required "fruit" - but your understanding of 'the fruit' associating with the "fruit of the Spirit" as you stated in Galatians 5:22-23 is not correct. In other words, does God the Father seek "...love, joy, peace..." back to Himself from Christians?

As an example, if I meet a Christian man who is abrupt, discourteous, angry and generally offensive, I know that he does NOT have the Holy Spirit's presence within him. On the other hand, if I meet another man who exhibits, "...love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control" and especially is a LOVER OF BIBLE TRUTHS - then I know that such a man has the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit within him.

In John 15:2 and especially verse 6, Jesus is very clear that if Christians FAIL to produce unto God the required quantities of "spiritual fruit" expected, God the Father will remove them permanently from Christ. When that happens, John 15:6 says they become "withered" (spiritually) prior to men (or angels - Matthew 13:40-42) later gathering them prior to burning in the Lake of Fire.

Therefore, the "spiritual fruit" that God the Father requires to be seen brought unto Him from each Christian during their lifetime on the Earth represents the souls of men, women and children "lost" in Satan's kingdom and brought into God's kingdom ( Luke 15:7) through the preaching of the Gospel.

In the parable of the Sower and the Seed, Jesus described the quantities of "souls saved" through the preaching of the Gospel as being 100, 60 or 30 souls (my understanding). If Christians fail to produce less than 30 lost souls into God's kingdom throughout their lifetime on the Earth, it is questionable whether they have Salvation, given the words of Christ in John 15:2, 6.

Any comments you might have would be appreciated.

Hello Alan Gbu....Lemme give ya my take on the parable of the Sower and his seed in Matthew 13.....My take is the wheat is a Baby Christ simply b/c the Sower of the good seed is Christ the bridegroom.....Thats y he has to know us in order the sow his good seed in our hearts.....Jesus said b/c i have spoken these Words ( his seed ) sorrows has filled your hearts.... a spiritual pregnancy.....But after the Child is born her sorrows are turned into Joy.... John 16:21....But the Child is spirit as he says that which is born of the spirit is spirit.....Thats the H.G. that Child of Promise....That New Creature that has to be born in us via his good seed.....Resulting in our new hearts and new Spirits....A new innerman that has to be born in us.....1 st the Child is born in us....Being bornagain of an incorruptible seed even by the words of God that liveth and abideth forever.....then the son, then the fullnest of the Kingdom of God in the Son the H.G. 3 measures....Untill we come into the full statue of the son of God.....Unless you receive the Kingdom of God as a lil Child ( our new birth ) you will in no wise enter there in.....Whosoever receiveth one such Child in my name receiveth me....That was the great Promise.....I will multiply thy seed as the stars of Heaven....Thus the sower and his precious seed has to be sown in our hearts......Thats y he has to KNOW us.....And this knowledge is gonna cover this whole earth as the waters cover the seas..... Isaiah 11:9.....ok lemme go.....Hope this can be of some help to ya.....Gbu.....When Isaiah saw the Kingdom coming he said unto us a Child is born, unto us a son is given. Isaiah 9 :6.....I love it

Hello Alex7,

In my post that responded to S Spencer, it focussed on the following statement:

QUOTE: "In John 15:2 and especially verse 6, Jesus is very clear that if Christians FAIL to produce unto God the required quantities of "spiritual fruit" expected, God the Father will remove them permanently from Christ. When that happens, John 15:6 says they become "withered" (spiritually) prior to men (or angels - Matthew 13:40-42) later gathering them prior to burning in the Lake of Fire." UNQUOTE

Instead of you addressing this very serious claim associated with Bible-based Salvation, you have chosen to refer to the parable of the Sower and the Seed and presented your "take" on what you believe it represents. I disagree with what you say because you open up your claims by saying:

- "the wheat is a Baby Christ".

There's nothing in the parable that says the "seed" is wheat or the "Baby Christ" as you claim. Jesus Christ's own words in scripture prove your claim here to be false, Alex7:

"Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God." ( Luke 8:11)

Given that you have this basic understanding of the parable wrong, it is pointless for me to comment on anything else in your reply.

Thanks anyway, Alex 7.

Alan Matthew 13:25....While men slept an enemy came and sowed Tares among the WHEAT.....So the good seed is the WHEAT....As the word of God, that good seed is the bread from Heaven....There is a hidden manna involved.....The very reason the sower goes forth to sow his seed is that he might be multiplied as the stars of heaven.....That was the great Promise that Christ might be mutiplied as the stars of heaven.....Thus the sower and his seed.....Thus the wheat is a baby Christ simply b/c its Christ the bridegroom that is sowing his seed in humanity.....Thats y he has to know us....If he does not know us there will be no fruit which is a baby Christ.....Which is the H.G. the Child of Promise.....Whosoever receiveth one such child in my name receiveth ME....As Jesus said that which is born of the spirit is spirit.....Thats the H.G. that is gonna be born in us via his good seed the living word.....Thats y Peter is saying being bornagain of an incorruptible even by the words of God.....We have to birth a new Creature via his good seed the word......Alan there is only 1 quota for the good fruit.....If I be lifted up i will draw ALL men unto me.....ALL MEN.....And no man can come unto me unless it is given to them of my father.....Which is the father's new covenant Jeremiah 31:34.....I will know them ALL from the least to the greatest.....Alan ya gotta keep in mind that the sower of that good seed is Christ the bridegroom.....That y he wants to know us.....She brought forth a man child that is gonna rule all nations.....Jesus is gonna be multiplied as the stars of Heaven.....Thus the sower and his precious seed the bridegroom's seed thus a baby Christ.....Thats y he is saying blessed are them that follow me in the REGENERATION.....He is gonna multiply/regenerate himself in humanity via his good seed...Thats y Jeremiah saw all men in travail and birth pains.... Jeremiah 30:6 kjv.....The Child is the H.G. THAT Promise Child.....Behold i send the Promise of my father upon you.

To Alex7 - you continue to maintain that "...the good seed is the WHEAT" despite Jesus Christ's own words contradicting what you claim, as stated below:

"Now the parable is this: THE SEED IS THE WORD OF GOD." ( Luke 8:11)

Another scripture verse is this that confirms that the word of God represents "seed" and in fact "incorruptible seed":

"Being born again, NOT OF CORRUPTIBLE SEED, but of INCORRUPTIBLE [seed], by THE WORD OF GOD, which liveth and abideth for ever." ( 1 Peter 1:23)

So, my dilemma is do I believe you - who (presumably) is a 'man' who has NOT died and has NOT risen from the dead and has NOT ascended in Heaven - OR, do I believe the words in the Bible spoken by Jesus Christ Himself - supported by the Apostle Peters words also thereby making TWO WITNESSES that agree:

"...In the mouth of two or three witnesses [Jesus and Peter] shall every word be established." ( 2 Corinthians 13:1)

If I was to believe what you wrote, I would then have to say that Jesus Christ is a liar. I couldn't do that.

Given that Jesus Christ has both died, risen from the dead and ascended into heaven according to the scriptures and as both He and the Apostle Peter have affirmed that "THE [incorruptible] SEED IS THE WORD OF GOD", I have to reject your false claims.

Alan there is an element of truth in what you are saying but what you do not understand is the word of God is that good seed that has seed potential to form Christ in us sinners.... Gal 4 :19....My lil Children of whom i travail in birth till Christ is formed in you....Thats y he always refers to himself as the son of man.....Yes the good seed is the word of God.....But the parable is this the word ( the living word) has seed potential to form Christ in us and Christ is God.....It was the Good seed the Word of God that formed Christ in MARY....A CHILD NOT OF THIS WORLD....And that same word same seed ( the living word) that can form Christ in humanity...The field is the world.....That Child that is formed in us via his good seed, has seed potential to be God.....Thats y Jesus is saying to whom the word that good seed came it made them Gods.....But this parable is hid from the wise and prudent and only revealed unto babes....Out of the mouths of babes and sucklings thou has perfected Praise...The Children of Promise....The H.G.....Alan what ya need to understand is....Yes the good seed is the word of God but this good seed has the power to form Christ in us sinners....which is the H.G. the Children of Promise.....

Romans 9:8....Flesh and blood are not the Children of God,... its only the CHILDREN OF PROMISE that are counted for that good Seed.....And who are the Children of Promise.....The H.G. The gift of God to us sinners.....The seed of the sower the word of God that has the seed potential to form a baby Christ in us.....Which is the H.G.....As we have borne the image of the earthy we must also bear (birth) the image of the Heavenly.....We cannot be bornagain without his good seed the word of God.....But when we are bornagain we birth the Christ Child in our hearts and minds....The Son of man....mankinds fruit unto God as in Romans 7 :4.....Alan try to remember Gal 4:19....My lil CHILDREN of whom i travail in birth till Christ is formed in you....Via his seed...

Alan Gbu But you do greatly err...... Matthew 13:38.....Jesus our lord said the field is the world and the good seed are the Children of the Kingdom.....But the Tares are the Children of the wicked one.....So we see that the good seed are Children.....Remember....whosoever receives one such child in MY NAME receives ME....And unless you receive the Kingdom of God as a lil Child you will in no wise enter there IN.....Thats y the woman is giving birth to the manchild via his seeds)...Jesus knew this Woman.....The Woman is humanity the field, the world that is gonna give birth via the seed of the bridegroom.....Thats y Jeremiah 30:6....saw all the world in travail and birth pains.....He has to multiply himself with his seed thus the H.G. that Child of Promise....Jesus cd not refer to the H.G. as the Promise unless the H.G was his multiplication /regeneration.....That was the great Promise....I will multiply thy seed as the stars of heaven.....Thus the sower and his precious seed the words of God.....And Jesus says the good seed are the Children of the Kingdom.....Thats y he is saying whosoever receiveth one such Child in my name receiveth me.....Thats y the woman is giving birth to the manchild which is the H.G. that is gonna rule all nations.....As that which is born of the spirit is spirit the H.G. The Child of Promise....She brought forth a manchild.....Thats y he was saying he wd have to know us in order for us to bring forth good fruit.....B/C I have spoken these words ( his seeds ) sorrows have filled your hearts..... John 16:21....When a woman is in travail she has SORROWS but after the Child is come her SORROWS are turned into Joy.....The Joy of the lord is the H.G the Child of Promise..... Isaiah 49:23.....Kings shall be your nursing Fathers and Queens shall be your nursing mothers.....Kings and Queens is just symbolic language for men and women that have birth a Baby CHRIST in their lives via hearing his good seed the living word.....We are the Travailing woman.

Alan Manson:

Matthew 13:30 Let them grow together (the wheat and the tares) ......but gather the wheat into the barn ....

Job 39:12 Wilt thou believe him (a prophecy of the Messiah), that he (Christ) may bring home the SEED (the word of God), and gather it (the word of God)(the SEED)(the WHEAT)(all symbols of CHRIST) into the barn (a symbol of the TEMPLE)

John 12:24 ... except a corn of WHEAT (SEED)(word of God)(CHRIST) fall into the ground (the grave)and DIE, it (Christ)(the WORD)(the SEED) (the WHEAT) abideth alone, but if it (Christ, the SEED, the WORD, the WHEAT) DIE, it (CHRIST) bringeth forth much FRUIT.

Wheat makes more WHEAT, Christ makes MORE CHRIST.

Ephesians 4:4 ..... ONE body .... ONE Spirit ....

John 17:22 .... that they may be ONE as we are ONE ......

Christ ONLY was raised from the DEAD.

Luke 20:36 Neither can they DIED ANYMORE: but they are EQUAL to the ANGELS, being the children of the RESURRECTION.

Isaiah 63:9 ... and the ANGEL of HIS PRESENCE SAVED THEM ....

God bless you.

To Plaintalk, I say this in response.

You quote Job 39:12 and you assign the "seed" to being the word of God. What you are doing is 'spiritualising' a statement of God to Job that was a literal question being put to Job by God that required from Job a literal answer. As Job had none aren't you being somewhat presumptuous here in your claims as to what the seed and the barn mean? An illustration of God's questioning of Job is shown in the verses below:

Job 39:1 "Knowest thou the time when the wild goats of the rock bring forth [their offspring]? or canst thou mark when the hinds do calve? 2 Canst thou number the months that they fulfil [their gestation]? or knowest thou the time when they bring forth?"

Anyone can spiritualise scripture to make it say whatever they want it to say - but it doesn't mean that it is true. Therefore, I reject what you say about this verse.

In regards to your view on John 12:24, although Jesus compares Himself to a grain of wheat as you say, His death was aimed to bring "many sons to glory" ( Hebrews 2:10) through the new birth ( John 3:3-8). Jesus could not establish a glorious church on Earth through His people unless He died and was glorified ( John 7:37-39; Acts 2:33; Eph. 1). Christians today are expected to die as Christ did - but NOT in the physical sense but in the spiritual sense:

- In this, we are to crucify our 'Old Man' nature until "he" is DEAD - Romans 6:6.-

- If we haven't, then spiritually speaking, God sees us as "walking in the flesh" ( Romans 8:1, 7).

However, if we are truly "born-again", we will share the Gospel of Jesus Christ with others so as to bring more lost souls into God's kingdom. By doing this, we (as being that "corn of wheat) will then "...bringeth forth much fruit" - meaning, the lost souls into God's kingdom through personal evangelism, "...some [corns'] an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold. 9 Who hath ears to hear, let him hear!" ( Matt 13:3-9).

That's how I see it, Plaintalk.