I have been reading recently and again through the books of Genesis, exodus, Leviticus & Numbers. Whenever I do it consistently reminds me of the verses in the New Testament that refer to the Old Testament. Particularly, 2 Timothy 3:15, 16 and 17, Romans 15:4 and Matthew 5:17-20. As all the New Testament was not even evident till long after the Resurrection. When it was canonized into the Holy Bible (king James), we must see the Holiness of the Old Testament, God's voice given to you & me. That is truly what we need to see, the Old joining with the New. That is what completes the Holy Bible and that is what works to complete the human mind. Make it Holy! Set apart.
The feeling I have is that the apostles and generally the Hebrews could not accept that God was interested in gentiles as well. They have always having in their mind that they themselves were the chosen/elected people that God was always dealing only with them. The nations were always the enemy from which God protected them. The idea that, for example the Romans who were their conqeurors could also be God's loved people was alien to them, they were expecting that the Lord will free them from them. They were taking the old prophesies that the Messiah who was expected to come, would free them from their enemies and made them a kingdom that will rule on the whole of earth, as literal. So when Jesus came, it was hard to them to accept that the freedom from their enemies literally meant freedom from sin and the kingdom God was telling them about is a spiritual kingdom including their enemies as well. That is why just before Jesus ascended to the sky they asked Him, "When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?", that was always in their mind and in the minds of the multitude. It took them a long time to accept the truth. It wasn't easy to them, for tousands of years they had something else in mind and suddenly they had to accept something else. That is why they didn't really pay any attention to what Jesus was telling them all the time. The phrase "hidden from them" to me means that. Similarly with Jesus crucifixtion. The apostles always had in their mind that the Messiah will become the king they were expecting, so when Jesus kept telling them that He was going to be killed, those words didn't get into their minds. And they were caught up by surprise.really. But God is a wise God, At the end God patiently drove them to the truth. This is how I get it Ronald, but I do also consider yours and GiGi's thoughts. GBU
Thank you, I agree with what you are saying, we are on the same page. They all were looking for the Messiah to set up the kingdom then. That is the reason some of the things Jesus told the disciples were hidden from their understanding that later the Holy Spirit brought back to their memory. The same reason that blindness in part happened to Israel mainly the corrupt evil rulers. The mystery; to undo the works of the devil and the promise made to all nations. The mystery of His will was hidden from Satan as well.
As Jesus told them in John 14:2 just before he went to the cross, He is going to prepare a place for you. A mansion is a dwelling place, Jesus's perfect life, death, and resurrection repaired what Adam did and the works of the devil so God could again dwell in man. 100s of prophecies were fulfilled and all was done unto the will of the Father and His timing.
It is true that when Jesus was telling His disciples about His crucifixion, He wasn't telling them God's mysterious plan in details, just few general things. Why? Probably they were not ready to accept those things, He probably was giving them time to adapt. Similarly the same method God uses with us today. When He sees that we are not going to accept something He tells us or brings in our life then He lets the events in our life to teach us. God is practical, He invents methods to approach and teach us, He adapts Himself to the individual or to a team/nation. He is a wise God.
About satan, as you said he didn't and couldn't think of God's plan, if he knew he would never led Jesus onto the cross. When he found out, our salvation had been already accomplished. Probably that was also a reason Jesus was not going into details when He was talking to His disciples.
I agree, we see how they reacted when Jesus was killed, God for whatever the reason hid their understanding of it. With us our understandings come with our growth, but sometimes it takes a board to the back of the head and when our face is in the dirt, He says do I have your attention.
Hi Shell, if I may..As GiGi replied, so many translations up to the KJV publishing in 1611 were not always written by council/competent authority so as King, King James appointed competent council giving them the authority to conclude one book, the KJB version(ONLY according to original documents, which there are thousand upon thousands of) & still has not changed. I have a 1698 copy that is 'Jot per Tittle' the same as my KJV from last yr.
As Hemorlan replied, 'Acts is the transitional book (rightly dividing) OT & NT. For the OT laws were for the Jews i.e. before Jesus DBR (death, burial & resurrection). NT is for All Jews & Gentiles. Christ shed His blood & died for All who choose to believe & All sin past, present & future. Making us All one in salvation.
As you point out, Romans 15:4..Paul is stating 'For what was written in the past was so we learn from past mistakes & come out unscathed by the world around us. To be strengthened in our hope/faith through patients for the evil around us & be comforted knowing God was w/them then as He is w/us now'. As for 2 Tim3:15, that's partial scripture & is best interpreted/understood if you read entire meaning not merely one verse, 2 Tim 3:12-17.
As for Matt 5:17-20, Jesus is speaking to the disciples on how things are related/differ tween the OT(Gen-Acts12) & how things will be upon His DBR to come (NT) Acts 13-The Revelation. In Matt:17, He didn't come to destroy anyone/anything but to fulfill prophecy of His Father. God does not make us choose Him, We have 'freewill'. Satan on the other hand will continue to torcher us & those around us till we choose evil. Put on the Armor of God Eph 6:10-18, being guarded from satan devouring souls simply for he knows his Eternity & is angry wanting revenge. Loving God w/all our being, Mark 12:28-33 & of course John 3:12-21. It's not hard as prosperity preachers would have you believe. I for one enjoy learning truth. With His blood, Christ Himself said it best .. "It is finished".
You said (Hemorian as well) that the Acts is a transitional book between OT and NT. I wouldn't agree on that.
In my opinion the only transitional period between those 2 economies was the 3 and 1/2 years that Jesus ministered on earth. And I wouldn't use the word transitional. I would prefer to say that Jesus ministry worked as a bridge joining the old economy with the new one.
In the book of Acts we see that Jews who became christians were still following the Old Law. But that was permitted by the apostles only to give the necessary time to Jews to adapt themselves to the New Conenant. Paul himself didn't follow John's and James' (who were the heads in Jerusalem at that time) practise. Paul was crystal clear in his teachings and writtings that the Old covenant had to be abandoned.
Please read what John and James said to Paul when he visited Jerusalem,
Acts 21:20-23, "20And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law: 21And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs. 22What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come. 23Do therefore this that we say to thee..." Pay attention to verse 21.
Paul this time followed their advice and found himself in a big trouble, in jail.
After Jesus' resurrection only the New Testament was valid. The Old died together with Jesus on the cross and the New came into life together with Jesus' ressurection. .
Now about that "rightly dividing the Word of God", a grk person understands that phrase as "rightly learning and teaching the Word of God", it has nothing to do with dividing.
Quite alright, we will never agree on everything, well till Jesus returns.! God knows our hearts & in His time, with help & love of others, we will all know His truth. Acts is a transitional/divided/bridge book between OT & NT because it's helping to bring the unbelievers to be in 'the know' of Jesus death & it's purpose. No longer following 613 laws yet following Him.
Yes, Paul WAS very clear in his teachings & writings that the Old covenant had to be abandoned. That's why Jesus choice him on his way to Damascus. God knew who he was, what he did & used it for His glory. Some things do not change over night for we can't give God the glory when greatness happen if we continue to focus on the less important things. I understand were your coming from I do. Yet it is my understanding from all my studying when I say things on here, it is what I believe at the time. Heck, If you read any of my responses from a yr ago, you'd see how even I've changed beliefs because of what others say on here which in turn gets me to study & learn more. Yet when His word is clear, I must decline & pray that God reaches, whomever, in due time for His glory. Take the prosperity teachers for instance, they twist sculpture leading so many the wrong way Yet, again, God knows our heart & He will work all out for His good not allowing them to burn. It's for us to bring unbelievers to HIM, He will do the rest. plus, love & pray for them ALL. Peter was appointed to teach the Jews about Jesus as Paul was to teach all who'd listen. This was God's plan. Jesus was the final 'blood sacrifice', once & for ALL sinners.
Right, After Jesus' resurrection only New Testament was valid yet, if you only knew one way all your life, it's super hard to change, ask an ex-cult member. I know, I'm from Utah. Until God gets ahold of us we are nothing. We either listen or we don't, our God given freewill. p.s. to me saying rightly dividing means same as what you said. God bless "Texsis".
Hey brother, I don't mean to intrude between you Hemorlan, and Texsis on this but my understanding is at this time the apostles had not been told the Gospel will also be given to the Gentiles, the time had not come. There were another 3.5 years after Jesus's ministry before the apostles were told the gospel of Christ will be given to the Greeks/Gentiles, the mystery, Rom. 16:24-25.
The Apostles stayed in Jerusalem and surrounding Jewish communities until after Stephen's death, and the persecutions. Philip the evangelist was the first to carry the gospel to the Samaritans, Peter had his dream, and Paul's conversion. To me, it is a fulfillment that Jesus had told them but they did not understand, it like they did not understand He was going to die on the cross, Acts 1:8.
He told them the Comforter would come John 14:25-26 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. 26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
They were learning from the Holy Spirit as we see in Acts 15, a learning curve, not a transition from the old to the new but a fulfillment and teaching of Jesus through the Holy Spirit same as we learn today.
You stated, "the apostles had not been told the Gospel will also be given to the Gentiles, the time had not come. There were another 3.5 years after Jesus's ministry before the apostles were told the gospel of Christ will be given to the Greeks/Gentiles.
I agree with Gigi, The Apostles were told to go out to preach the gospel to the whole world and I believe the old economy "if that's the correct term to use" ended at the crucifixion when the veil was rent from top to bottom.
The timing of the beginning and ending of what God ordained in the old and in the new covenant was totally of God, "Not according to man's response to it"
The OT scripture said salvation would go out to the Gentiles by the seed which shall come. some expected it in the New Testament as seen in Luke 2:30-32. For mine eyes have seen thy salvation, which thou hast prepared before the face of all people. A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel.
Also.
Jesus said in John 2:19-22 he would tare the temple down and build it again in 3 days.
That was the end of temporary temple that only served as a shadow of what was to come. Hebrews 9:6-11.
When he rose from the grave, he went to the disciples and see here what he said in Luke 24:42-48.
And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
And ye are witnesses of these things!
Concerning the veil being rent from top to bottom.
Here is what was accomplished at the death and resurrection of our Lord.
Here in Hebrews 6:17-20 we see Jesus as our "forerunner" and High Priest.
We have been once and for all cleansed and can now enter therein with a clear conscience. See Hebrews 9:8-26.
Also.
Hebrews 10:8-22.
The veil being rent signifies the end of the old covenant and the resurrection ushered in the new covenant.
The commission came right afterwards. Luke 24:42-49. and Matthew 28:19-20.
The terms "Old Economy" and "New Economy" are widely used in grk for the Old Testament and the New Testament or Old Law and New Law. The initial meaning of the word "economy" is "order/law of the House" (from ecos=house and nomos=Law/order). Later it ended up meaning the finances of a house or state/country. In grk theology those terms are used with their initial meaning, so the Old Economy is the Law/order of the House of Israel and the New Economy is the Law/order of the House of the Church. In grk the term "Economy of Grace" is also widely used. It means "a state/order under God's grace". So today we live in the economy of grace or in the new economy. Maybe those terms are not used in Eng., I didn't know that when i used them in my posts. GBU
I agree with most of all you have written. My understanding is at the crucifixion and when the veil was rent from top to bottom was the sign of the fulfillment of the old with the final sacrifice, the ordinances were nailed to the cross, and the new covenant was made, but it was not yet given to the Gentiles. To me, it is clear it was after Stephen's death and the persecution and history puts that right at 3.5 years after the crucifixion.
In Acts 8:57 the high priest and the other rulers made their final rejection of Jesus with this action they "stopped their ears and ran upon him with one accord" That is my understanding when the branch was broken off. In Luke 24:42-48 the end says, "beginning at Jerusalem" That was what they were doing, to the Jew first.
Right after this in Acts 9 Paul's conversion, In Acts 10 Peter's vision and his preaching to the Gentiles, and in Acts 11 when the apostles and brethren heard that Peter preached the word of God to the Gentiles, they were mad and upset with him. They should have understood that was what they were supposed to do but they did not, they were mad, not happy.
I know in scripture they were told they would spread the gospel to the Gentiles and the world, but my understanding of scripture is it was like when they were told He would be killed and rise from the dead, this was also hidden until the given time that Prophecy would be fulfilled, and the mystery revealed.
Romans 16:25-26 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, 26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
I think that the mystery that was revealed was the revelation of the Messiah and His mission to save from sin those who believe from every tribe, tongue and nation through His death and resurrection (the Gospel). The Jews had the idea of the Messiah setting up an earthly, temporal kingdom instead of a spiritual, eternal kingdom with the Messiah ruling as the King of the nations, not just Israel. The mystery was that the Messiah would be the ultimate revelation of God in the flesh, being the express image of the Father and the eternal Son to representative of the Godhead to mankind.
The thought of the true God becoming a man was not a possibility in Jewish thought, nor the truth that the Godhead includes the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as distinct individuals yet unified as one unique and transcendent Being. Pagans had ideas similar to this but included grave errors because they were polytheistic with various hierarchies of false deities. These truths about the Godhead and the Messiah were very difficult for the Jews to embrace because it was very foreign to the way they had formulated their concept of YHWH and the person of the Messiah. The Gentiles may have had an easier time of understanding the Gospel, the Person and work of Jesus, the Godhead, and the dual nature of Christ due to their pagan views that had similarities to these things, but the teachings of the apostles corrected their wrong views with the Gospel and correct teaching about God and Jesus.
The mystery that was hid for all ages may have been hid from both man and angels by God so that Satan would not know the plan to save humans through the incarnation of the eternal Son of the Father. But at just the right time, in the fullness of time, the Father sent forth His Son, being born of a woman, to live the life no man can ever live and pay the price of the sins of mankind on the cross. to be continued...
My understanding is Christ is the mystery revealed to those who believe in Him, to the Jew, and to the Gentile, a part of this mystery that was revealed, through faith in Jesus by the Spirit they too would be fellow heirs to the promises. God's plan in bringing His kingdom in Christ to fulfillment, of things in heaven and on earth. As we know things in heaven, with the devil/Satan who still has access to heaven and other fallen angels and those locked in the bottomless pit.
We see the completion of the mystery and the things not yet revealed finished, in Revelation. Everything has been placed under Jesus Christ until the last enemy is under His feet and that will be death. Then a new heaven and new earth and a new city Jerusalem with no sin, where God and Jesus the Lamb are the temple.
Agreed. We went out for a drive and I thought I might post more to you when I returned. To complete my thought. Jesus was resurrected. The Scriptures say it was the Father who resurrected Him, another place says the Spirit did, and another place says Jesus, Himself, as God had the power to raise His human body from the grave. He then ascended to sit down at the right hand of the Father, receiving again the glory He had with the Father prior to His incarnation. These events in the life of the incarnated Son of God is the mystery revealed in Jesus in the flesh and proclaimed by the disciples and apostles who witnessed these things and Paul later. No human had ever thought that these things would be. Humans could not conceive of it themselves. It must be revealed, first of all, in the life of Christ, and then proclaimed by believers throughout history. Without Jesus there would be no mystery revealed. And, though the OT did prophesy that non-Israelites would become God's people, too, the Jews refused to acknowledge that this would ever occur. they thought that they were the only people selected by God to be in a covenant relationship with Him. But they were very wrong. Adam, Seth, Enoch, Noah, Shem, Abraham and Isaac were not Israelites and they had a covenant relationship with God. The closed mindedness, stubbornness, and pridefulness of the Jews didn't allow them to "grant" God the freedom to elect whomever He wishes. Although they could not limit God's freedom, they essentially stood up to Him in their insistence that they alone we chosen of God. Thankfully, many Jews believed Jesus when He was alive and also after He resurrected, especially those in many geographic areas outside of Jerusalem who heard Paul preach to them.
I believe the Mystery Paul is speaking of is the Church.
The combination of Gentiles and Jews was not declared to them by way of the Cross and Resurrection and righteousness and Justification by faith, instead of their continuous sacrifices in-which Gentiles had no part unless they became a
proselyte.
The Mystery is that the Gentiles would become fellow heirs BY WAY OF THE SPIRIT not the Law and the Jews righteousness ALSO would be by the cross and joint heirs of the promise by way of the Spirit not of the letter.
I am having a good day as well thank you. I agree again with most of all you have written. My understanding of the mystery was to bring unity to all things in heaven and on earth under Christ. This included the Gentiles through faith in Jesus by the Spirit, to be fellow heirs with Israel as sons of God.
My understanding is I think with yours, when Jesus first came, the Messiah, the Son of God and started His ministry, anyone who believed in Him and heard His sayings and did them, was the beginning of the Church, but some say Pentecost.
But all who were added to the Church daily were Jews, the lost sheep of Israel until after what was said and done to Stephen, which ended the offering of the covenant to just the Jews the lost sheep of Israel and fulfilled a prophecy.
The commission was given but when was it made clear and activated, and told by God to carry it out? If the apostles understood this commission, why were they upset with Peter who preached the gospel of Christ to the Gentiles? And we have Paul at the same time for this same commission to be carried out. This is when I understand the branch was broken off and as Paul said to provoke them to jealousy, Romans 11:11.
Thanks again brother for all your comments they are taken and studied.
For some reason I thought you were saying the mystery was that salvation went out to the Gentiles and the Desciples wasn't commissioned to preach to them until Paul and Stephen.
Paul was born out of due time so he would be late in the commission.
I believe Christ came to gather the lost sheep of Israel as mentioned in Matthew 15:24.
I agree there was a lot to be fulfilled that was Prophesied in the old testament.
Even his death was prophesied.
Salvation to the heathen.
Even his deity was prophesied " Isaiah 9:6." so I don't hold the view as Gigi as this being the mystery mentioned in Ephesians 3:5-6.
I believe the Mystery goes further than just extending salvation to the Gentiles but that they would be Joint heirs and how it would be accomplished.
By way of the cross and by rebirth by the Holyspirit.
Even when he rose from the dead they asked when was he going to restore the kingdom.
Even when he appeared to them after he rose from the dead some didn't believe.
Not until they received the Holyspirit were they able to comprehend his work.
Being born of God's spirit and baptized into one body was not revealed to them neither could they comprehend it.
I believe this is what Jesus is saying in John 16:12-14.
Also John 14:26 gives an example of how the Holyspirit would reveal revelation to them that the natural mind couldn't comprehend.
Yes, Ronald, the unifying of all things under Christ is the end goal of the plan of the Godhead since before the foundation of the world. It is , as you said, a mystery up until it was revealed through the apostles. We have Paul's testimony concerning this. At the time, this had not come to pass in historical time, so the mystery Paul was most likely referring to was the salvation that comes in and through Christ to those who believe the Gospel. But as you said, the mystery entails all these things, (and probably much more deeper things that we cannot know this side of heaven). Have a good evening. We celebrate the blessings of living in the U.S. and the way the U.S. blesses the world ins o many ways.
In Luke 4:18 Jesus opens the book of Isaiah and reads; "The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
RECVERING THE SIGHT OF THE BLIND.
Jesus done this literally and figuratively. Notice what Jesus tells the blind man and the Pharisees in John 9:39-41.
"And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, "THAT THEY WHICH SEE NOT MIGHT SEE; AND THEY WHICH SEE MIGHT BE MADE BLIND."
And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also?
Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore, your sin remaineth.
Not all were blind as Paul mentions in Romans, but noticed Jesus says this before they rejected him.
Also see John 1:5-9.
"And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world."
I don't hold quite the view you do on the mystery was salvation going out the Gentiles,
I believe the inability to receive the cross and resurrection as God's redemption plan is what made it a mystery.
And it was a mystery to them "The Jews" that that was the redemption plan for them as well.
Worshipping in truth and in spirit was made possible in this new covenant at the resurrection by way of believe and be baptized by the Holyspirit.
Christ put his spirit IN us to receive the thing of God. Jews and Gentiles.
The Apostles were told to wait, after they recieved, they were sent out to the world.
Jesus being the corner stone and the Apostles being the foundation signifies the beginning of a groundbreaking plan to erect a building and that building is the Church.
As I mentioned previously, the commission to carry the Gospel to the world came right after the resurrection, as shown in the Gospels " Luke 24:42-49 and Matthew 28:19-20."
I agree with you that the scripture says to the Jews first, and then the Gentiles,
However, I would suggest that the Gospel was preached to them before the cross as well as Abraham.
Hebrews 3:17-19 - Hebrews 4:1-6.
"But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?
And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?
So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief. Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. FOR UNTO US WAS THE GOSPEL PREACHED, AS WELL AS UNTO THEM: BUT THE WORD PREACHED DID NOT PROFIT THEM, NOT BEING MIXED WITH FAITH IN THEM THAT HEARD IT.
For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, AND THEY TO WHOM IT WAS FIRST PREACHED ENTERED NOT IN BECAUSE OF UNBELIEF:
Also;
And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, PREACHED BEFORE THE GOSPEL UNTO ABRAHAM, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. Galatians 3:8.
I'm enjoying my day, especially when I can sit down in front of my computer for a chance and not rely on my cellphone to communicate. I hope you are doing the same.
John 4:21-24 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
This worshiping God "who is spirit" and worshipping in truth and in spirit this ability to do so was done at the cross!
This is where the Church begin, and the partition moved out of the way for the Gentiles.
Ephesians 2:13-22
But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and HATH BROKEN DOWN THE MIDDLE WALL OF PARTITION BETWEEN US;
Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
AND ARE BUILT UPON THE FOUNDATION OF THE APOSTLES AND PROPHETS, JESUS BEING THE CHIEF CORNER STONE;
In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
Your not intruding. This site is for all to learn, including myself, so never feel bad for voicing what you think. A lot of what I say is wrong cuz I'm still learning yet voice my opinion to what I believe. If I'm wrong in some eyes and they respond, that's great. I learn more. yet it's what I believe because of what I have been studying so I say from that. God is our only condemner in the long run. I enjoy learning His truth. Though very hard at times because if you say one word wrong, it truly can be the difference between thinking you now Him and knowing Him in some eyes. We ALL know and love Him and that's the main thing & being better then we were yesterday is His desire for us ALL. The bible is rightly divided and we are to read it in it's entirety yet 'today' we live by faith thru Gods grace because Christ shed His blood for our sins.
Thank you, I feel the same way. We should always treat each other with love and respect. If we stay open with our eyes and ears to see and to hear we never know when a light will shine on the truth. It is a lifetime journey of learning and growing, all the way to the end.
I do think that the apostles knew before Jesus ascended that the gospel would go to the Gentiles because of Jesus had said to them about being witnesses of Him in Judea, Samaria, and to the uttermost parts of the world. Not many Jews lived or even passed through Samaria, so being told that they would bring the Gospel to Samaria would have meant that they would preach to the Samarians. Also, Jews did not live in all areas of the world, but they were told that they would preach to those parts, even those without any Jews.
They may not have thought that Samarians and Gentiles would be converted because they considered these people to be "not chosen", but they were to preach to them regardless. Many of them were surprised that salvation would come to Samaritans and Gentiles, but some like Philip and Paul, were not.
Thanks, I agree they were told that but we see it was after Stephen's death and the priests along with Saul/Paul put in prison, beat, killed, and drove out the believers in Jesus, the apostles stayed in Jerusalem. The ones Philip shared the word within Samaria must have been Jewish because the apostles did not have a problem with it because Peter and John went and prayed for them to receive the Holy Ghost, Acts 8:14-17
When Peter had his dream, it was a clear vision that God showed him the time had come for the gospel to go to the Gentiles, Acts 10. But when he told the apostles and brethren when he went to Cornelius the centurion and preached to the Gentiles, they had a big problem with it and they rebuked Peter for doing this, Acts 11, and in Acts 11:19 the ones who were persecuted and driven out were preaching the word to the Jews only.
To me, it looks the same as when Jesus told them how He was going to die and be resurrected but it was hidden from them, Luke 9:45, and we see they were devastated after He was crucified and did not believe He rose from the dead, Luke 24:10-11. It was God's perfect timing when this would happen, fulfilling prophecy and a promise.
In the time of Jesus and the apostles, the Old Testament, the Septuagint, was the Scriptures they learned and used.
As the writings of the Apostles and their scribes were completed and distributed to churches, these were used for doctrine, teaching, and conduct.
By the end of the first century, the writings that are now included in the New Testament were well established as accepted Scripture by the majority of churches. When the canon was determined in the 3rd century, these writings were to be included in the new Testament books because of their widespread distribution and acceptance by the wide range of churches in the areas where the Gospel was preached and church fellowships established.
So, after the canon was established by the bishops of the church in the 3rd century, no more writings were added to this canon.
Both the Old and New Testaments were hand-copied by scribes, priests, and other clergy from century to century until the printing press was invented by Guttenberg. Then Bibles could be mass produced and made available to non-clergy, too.
Translations were made in Latin by Jerome in the 6th century, I believe. And Luther translated Jerome's translation into common German, Calvin translated from Jerome to make the Geneva Bible. In England, there were many translators between 1500 and 1800, such as Tyndale , Wycliffe, Cloverdale, and then by the commission to translate by order of King James.
In America, there were several translations made the late 1800's such as the RSV, ASV,
And then in the 1900's there came more translations throughout the century.
Even now in the 2000's new translations are being produced.
But the canon of the Old and New Testament was determined once in the 3rd century and has not changed since then.
The feeling I have is that the apostles and generally the Hebrews could not accept that God was interested in gentiles as well. They have always having in their mind that they themselves were the chosen/elected people that God was always dealing only with them. The nations were always the enemy from which God protected them. The idea that, for example the Romans who were their conqeurors could also be God's loved people was alien to them, they were expecting that the Lord will free them from them. They were taking the old prophesies that the Messiah who was expected to come, would free them from their enemies and made them a kingdom that will rule on the whole of earth, as literal. So when Jesus came, it was hard to them to accept that the freedom from their enemies literally meant freedom from sin and the kingdom God was telling them about is a spiritual kingdom including their enemies as well. That is why just before Jesus ascended to the sky they asked Him, "When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?", that was always in their mind and in the minds of the multitude. It took them a long time to accept the truth. It wasn't easy to them, for tousands of years they had something else in mind and suddenly they had to accept something else. That is why they didn't really pay any attention to what Jesus was telling them all the time. The phrase "hidden from them" to me means that. Similarly with Jesus crucifixtion. The apostles always had in their mind that the Messiah will become the king they were expecting, so when Jesus kept telling them that He was going to be killed, those words didn't get into their minds. And they were caught up by surprise.really. But God is a wise God, At the end God patiently drove them to the truth. This is how I get it Ronald, but I do also consider yours and GiGi's thoughts. GBU
Thank you, I agree with what you are saying, we are on the same page. They all were looking for the Messiah to set up the kingdom then. That is the reason some of the things Jesus told the disciples were hidden from their understanding that later the Holy Spirit brought back to their memory. The same reason that blindness in part happened to Israel mainly the corrupt evil rulers. The mystery; to undo the works of the devil and the promise made to all nations. The mystery of His will was hidden from Satan as well.
As Jesus told them in John 14:2 just before he went to the cross, He is going to prepare a place for you. A mansion is a dwelling place, Jesus's perfect life, death, and resurrection repaired what Adam did and the works of the devil so God could again dwell in man. 100s of prophecies were fulfilled and all was done unto the will of the Father and His timing.
God bless,
RLW
It is true that when Jesus was telling His disciples about His crucifixion, He wasn't telling them God's mysterious plan in details, just few general things. Why? Probably they were not ready to accept those things, He probably was giving them time to adapt. Similarly the same method God uses with us today. When He sees that we are not going to accept something He tells us or brings in our life then He lets the events in our life to teach us. God is practical, He invents methods to approach and teach us, He adapts Himself to the individual or to a team/nation. He is a wise God.
About satan, as you said he didn't and couldn't think of God's plan, if he knew he would never led Jesus onto the cross. When he found out, our salvation had been already accomplished. Probably that was also a reason Jesus was not going into details when He was talking to His disciples.
GBU
I agree, we see how they reacted when Jesus was killed, God for whatever the reason hid their understanding of it. With us our understandings come with our growth, but sometimes it takes a board to the back of the head and when our face is in the dirt, He says do I have your attention.
Thank you and God bless,
RLW
As Hemorlan replied, 'Acts is the transitional book (rightly dividing) OT & NT. For the OT laws were for the Jews i.e. before Jesus DBR (death, burial & resurrection). NT is for All Jews & Gentiles. Christ shed His blood & died for All who choose to believe & All sin past, present & future. Making us All one in salvation.
As you point out, Romans 15:4..Paul is stating 'For what was written in the past was so we learn from past mistakes & come out unscathed by the world around us. To be strengthened in our hope/faith through patients for the evil around us & be comforted knowing God was w/them then as He is w/us now'. As for 2 Tim3:15, that's partial scripture & is best interpreted/understood if you read entire meaning not merely one verse, 2 Tim 3:12-17.
As for Matt 5:17-20, Jesus is speaking to the disciples on how things are related/differ tween the OT(Gen-Acts12) & how things will be upon His DBR to come (NT) Acts 13-The Revelation. In Matt:17, He didn't come to destroy anyone/anything but to fulfill prophecy of His Father. God does not make us choose Him, We have 'freewill'. Satan on the other hand will continue to torcher us & those around us till we choose evil. Put on the Armor of God Eph 6:10-18, being guarded from satan devouring souls simply for he knows his Eternity & is angry wanting revenge. Loving God w/all our being, Mark 12:28-33 & of course John 3:12-21. It's not hard as prosperity preachers would have you believe. I for one enjoy learning truth. With His blood, Christ Himself said it best .. "It is finished".
What is so special about Utah? Do you mean that there are a lot of cults there?
You said (Hemorian as well) that the Acts is a transitional book between OT and NT. I wouldn't agree on that.
In my opinion the only transitional period between those 2 economies was the 3 and 1/2 years that Jesus ministered on earth. And I wouldn't use the word transitional. I would prefer to say that Jesus ministry worked as a bridge joining the old economy with the new one.
In the book of Acts we see that Jews who became christians were still following the Old Law. But that was permitted by the apostles only to give the necessary time to Jews to adapt themselves to the New Conenant. Paul himself didn't follow John's and James' (who were the heads in Jerusalem at that time) practise. Paul was crystal clear in his teachings and writtings that the Old covenant had to be abandoned.
Please read what John and James said to Paul when he visited Jerusalem,
Acts 21:20-23, "20And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law: 21And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs. 22What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come. 23Do therefore this that we say to thee..." Pay attention to verse 21.
Paul this time followed their advice and found himself in a big trouble, in jail.
After Jesus' resurrection only the New Testament was valid. The Old died together with Jesus on the cross and the New came into life together with Jesus' ressurection. .
Now about that "rightly dividing the Word of God", a grk person understands that phrase as "rightly learning and teaching the Word of God", it has nothing to do with dividing.
GBU
Yes, Paul WAS very clear in his teachings & writings that the Old covenant had to be abandoned. That's why Jesus choice him on his way to Damascus. God knew who he was, what he did & used it for His glory. Some things do not change over night for we can't give God the glory when greatness happen if we continue to focus on the less important things. I understand were your coming from I do. Yet it is my understanding from all my studying when I say things on here, it is what I believe at the time. Heck, If you read any of my responses from a yr ago, you'd see how even I've changed beliefs because of what others say on here which in turn gets me to study & learn more. Yet when His word is clear, I must decline & pray that God reaches, whomever, in due time for His glory. Take the prosperity teachers for instance, they twist sculpture leading so many the wrong way Yet, again, God knows our heart & He will work all out for His good not allowing them to burn. It's for us to bring unbelievers to HIM, He will do the rest. plus, love & pray for them ALL. Peter was appointed to teach the Jews about Jesus as Paul was to teach all who'd listen. This was God's plan. Jesus was the final 'blood sacrifice', once & for ALL sinners.
Right, After Jesus' resurrection only New Testament was valid yet, if you only knew one way all your life, it's super hard to change, ask an ex-cult member. I know, I'm from Utah. Until God gets ahold of us we are nothing. We either listen or we don't, our God given freewill. p.s. to me saying rightly dividing means same as what you said. God bless "Texsis".
Hey brother, I don't mean to intrude between you Hemorlan, and Texsis on this but my understanding is at this time the apostles had not been told the Gospel will also be given to the Gentiles, the time had not come. There were another 3.5 years after Jesus's ministry before the apostles were told the gospel of Christ will be given to the Greeks/Gentiles, the mystery, Rom. 16:24-25.
The Apostles stayed in Jerusalem and surrounding Jewish communities until after Stephen's death, and the persecutions. Philip the evangelist was the first to carry the gospel to the Samaritans, Peter had his dream, and Paul's conversion. To me, it is a fulfillment that Jesus had told them but they did not understand, it like they did not understand He was going to die on the cross, Acts 1:8.
He told them the Comforter would come John 14:25-26 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. 26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
They were learning from the Holy Spirit as we see in Acts 15, a learning curve, not a transition from the old to the new but a fulfillment and teaching of Jesus through the Holy Spirit same as we learn today.
God bless,
RLW
You stated, "the apostles had not been told the Gospel will also be given to the Gentiles, the time had not come. There were another 3.5 years after Jesus's ministry before the apostles were told the gospel of Christ will be given to the Greeks/Gentiles.
I agree with Gigi, The Apostles were told to go out to preach the gospel to the whole world and I believe the old economy "if that's the correct term to use" ended at the crucifixion when the veil was rent from top to bottom.
The timing of the beginning and ending of what God ordained in the old and in the new covenant was totally of God, "Not according to man's response to it"
The OT scripture said salvation would go out to the Gentiles by the seed which shall come. some expected it in the New Testament as seen in Luke 2:30-32. For mine eyes have seen thy salvation, which thou hast prepared before the face of all people. A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel.
Also.
Jesus said in John 2:19-22 he would tare the temple down and build it again in 3 days.
That was the end of temporary temple that only served as a shadow of what was to come. Hebrews 9:6-11.
When he rose from the grave, he went to the disciples and see here what he said in Luke 24:42-48.
And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
And ye are witnesses of these things!
Concerning the veil being rent from top to bottom.
Here is what was accomplished at the death and resurrection of our Lord.
Here in Hebrews 6:17-20 we see Jesus as our "forerunner" and High Priest.
We have been once and for all cleansed and can now enter therein with a clear conscience. See Hebrews 9:8-26.
Also.
Hebrews 10:8-22.
The veil being rent signifies the end of the old covenant and the resurrection ushered in the new covenant.
The commission came right afterwards. Luke 24:42-49. and Matthew 28:19-20.
God bless.
The terms "Old Economy" and "New Economy" are widely used in grk for the Old Testament and the New Testament or Old Law and New Law. The initial meaning of the word "economy" is "order/law of the House" (from ecos=house and nomos=Law/order). Later it ended up meaning the finances of a house or state/country. In grk theology those terms are used with their initial meaning, so the Old Economy is the Law/order of the House of Israel and the New Economy is the Law/order of the House of the Church. In grk the term "Economy of Grace" is also widely used. It means "a state/order under God's grace". So today we live in the economy of grace or in the new economy. Maybe those terms are not used in Eng., I didn't know that when i used them in my posts. GBU
I didn't know it meant that in the Greek.
I saw someone " Perhaps you" use it and I thought it was appropriate.
God bless you.
I agree with most of all you have written. My understanding is at the crucifixion and when the veil was rent from top to bottom was the sign of the fulfillment of the old with the final sacrifice, the ordinances were nailed to the cross, and the new covenant was made, but it was not yet given to the Gentiles. To me, it is clear it was after Stephen's death and the persecution and history puts that right at 3.5 years after the crucifixion.
In Acts 8:57 the high priest and the other rulers made their final rejection of Jesus with this action they "stopped their ears and ran upon him with one accord" That is my understanding when the branch was broken off. In Luke 24:42-48 the end says, "beginning at Jerusalem" That was what they were doing, to the Jew first.
Right after this in Acts 9 Paul's conversion, In Acts 10 Peter's vision and his preaching to the Gentiles, and in Acts 11 when the apostles and brethren heard that Peter preached the word of God to the Gentiles, they were mad and upset with him. They should have understood that was what they were supposed to do but they did not, they were mad, not happy.
I know in scripture they were told they would spread the gospel to the Gentiles and the world, but my understanding of scripture is it was like when they were told He would be killed and rise from the dead, this was also hidden until the given time that Prophecy would be fulfilled, and the mystery revealed.
Romans 16:25-26 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, 26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
God bless and have a good day.
RLW
I think that the mystery that was revealed was the revelation of the Messiah and His mission to save from sin those who believe from every tribe, tongue and nation through His death and resurrection (the Gospel). The Jews had the idea of the Messiah setting up an earthly, temporal kingdom instead of a spiritual, eternal kingdom with the Messiah ruling as the King of the nations, not just Israel. The mystery was that the Messiah would be the ultimate revelation of God in the flesh, being the express image of the Father and the eternal Son to representative of the Godhead to mankind.
The thought of the true God becoming a man was not a possibility in Jewish thought, nor the truth that the Godhead includes the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as distinct individuals yet unified as one unique and transcendent Being. Pagans had ideas similar to this but included grave errors because they were polytheistic with various hierarchies of false deities. These truths about the Godhead and the Messiah were very difficult for the Jews to embrace because it was very foreign to the way they had formulated their concept of YHWH and the person of the Messiah. The Gentiles may have had an easier time of understanding the Gospel, the Person and work of Jesus, the Godhead, and the dual nature of Christ due to their pagan views that had similarities to these things, but the teachings of the apostles corrected their wrong views with the Gospel and correct teaching about God and Jesus.
The mystery that was hid for all ages may have been hid from both man and angels by God so that Satan would not know the plan to save humans through the incarnation of the eternal Son of the Father. But at just the right time, in the fullness of time, the Father sent forth His Son, being born of a woman, to live the life no man can ever live and pay the price of the sins of mankind on the cross. to be continued...
Thank you,
My understanding is Christ is the mystery revealed to those who believe in Him, to the Jew, and to the Gentile, a part of this mystery that was revealed, through faith in Jesus by the Spirit they too would be fellow heirs to the promises. God's plan in bringing His kingdom in Christ to fulfillment, of things in heaven and on earth. As we know things in heaven, with the devil/Satan who still has access to heaven and other fallen angels and those locked in the bottomless pit.
We see the completion of the mystery and the things not yet revealed finished, in Revelation. Everything has been placed under Jesus Christ until the last enemy is under His feet and that will be death. Then a new heaven and new earth and a new city Jerusalem with no sin, where God and Jesus the Lamb are the temple.
God bless,
RLW
Agreed. We went out for a drive and I thought I might post more to you when I returned. To complete my thought. Jesus was resurrected. The Scriptures say it was the Father who resurrected Him, another place says the Spirit did, and another place says Jesus, Himself, as God had the power to raise His human body from the grave. He then ascended to sit down at the right hand of the Father, receiving again the glory He had with the Father prior to His incarnation. These events in the life of the incarnated Son of God is the mystery revealed in Jesus in the flesh and proclaimed by the disciples and apostles who witnessed these things and Paul later. No human had ever thought that these things would be. Humans could not conceive of it themselves. It must be revealed, first of all, in the life of Christ, and then proclaimed by believers throughout history. Without Jesus there would be no mystery revealed. And, though the OT did prophesy that non-Israelites would become God's people, too, the Jews refused to acknowledge that this would ever occur. they thought that they were the only people selected by God to be in a covenant relationship with Him. But they were very wrong. Adam, Seth, Enoch, Noah, Shem, Abraham and Isaac were not Israelites and they had a covenant relationship with God. The closed mindedness, stubbornness, and pridefulness of the Jews didn't allow them to "grant" God the freedom to elect whomever He wishes. Although they could not limit God's freedom, they essentially stood up to Him in their insistence that they alone we chosen of God. Thankfully, many Jews believed Jesus when He was alive and also after He resurrected, especially those in many geographic areas outside of Jerusalem who heard Paul preach to them.
Part 4.
I ran out of space before I closed.
I wanted to be clearer in this final post,
I believe the Mystery Paul is speaking of is the Church.
The combination of Gentiles and Jews was not declared to them by way of the Cross and Resurrection and righteousness and Justification by faith, instead of their continuous sacrifices in-which Gentiles had no part unless they became a
proselyte.
The Mystery is that the Gentiles would become fellow heirs BY WAY OF THE SPIRIT not the Law and the Jews righteousness ALSO would be by the cross and joint heirs of the promise by way of the Spirit not of the letter.
God bless
I am having a good day as well thank you. I agree again with most of all you have written. My understanding of the mystery was to bring unity to all things in heaven and on earth under Christ. This included the Gentiles through faith in Jesus by the Spirit, to be fellow heirs with Israel as sons of God.
My understanding is I think with yours, when Jesus first came, the Messiah, the Son of God and started His ministry, anyone who believed in Him and heard His sayings and did them, was the beginning of the Church, but some say Pentecost.
But all who were added to the Church daily were Jews, the lost sheep of Israel until after what was said and done to Stephen, which ended the offering of the covenant to just the Jews the lost sheep of Israel and fulfilled a prophecy.
The commission was given but when was it made clear and activated, and told by God to carry it out? If the apostles understood this commission, why were they upset with Peter who preached the gospel of Christ to the Gentiles? And we have Paul at the same time for this same commission to be carried out. This is when I understand the branch was broken off and as Paul said to provoke them to jealousy, Romans 11:11.
Thanks again brother for all your comments they are taken and studied.
God bless,
RLW
I believe we are in agreement.
For some reason I thought you were saying the mystery was that salvation went out to the Gentiles and the Desciples wasn't commissioned to preach to them until Paul and Stephen.
Paul was born out of due time so he would be late in the commission.
I believe Christ came to gather the lost sheep of Israel as mentioned in Matthew 15:24.
I agree there was a lot to be fulfilled that was Prophesied in the old testament.
Even his death was prophesied.
Salvation to the heathen.
Even his deity was prophesied " Isaiah 9:6." so I don't hold the view as Gigi as this being the mystery mentioned in Ephesians 3:5-6.
I believe the Mystery goes further than just extending salvation to the Gentiles but that they would be Joint heirs and how it would be accomplished.
By way of the cross and by rebirth by the Holyspirit.
Even when he rose from the dead they asked when was he going to restore the kingdom.
Even when he appeared to them after he rose from the dead some didn't believe.
Not until they received the Holyspirit were they able to comprehend his work.
Being born of God's spirit and baptized into one body was not revealed to them neither could they comprehend it.
I believe this is what Jesus is saying in John 16:12-14.
Also John 14:26 gives an example of how the Holyspirit would reveal revelation to them that the natural mind couldn't comprehend.
God bless.
It seems I lost count; This is Part 3.
Blindness.
In Luke 4:18 Jesus opens the book of Isaiah and reads; "The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
RECVERING THE SIGHT OF THE BLIND.
Jesus done this literally and figuratively. Notice what Jesus tells the blind man and the Pharisees in John 9:39-41.
"And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, "THAT THEY WHICH SEE NOT MIGHT SEE; AND THEY WHICH SEE MIGHT BE MADE BLIND."
And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also?
Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore, your sin remaineth.
Not all were blind as Paul mentions in Romans, but noticed Jesus says this before they rejected him.
Also see John 1:5-9.
"And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world."
I don't hold quite the view you do on the mystery was salvation going out the Gentiles,
I believe the inability to receive the cross and resurrection as God's redemption plan is what made it a mystery.
And it was a mystery to them "The Jews" that that was the redemption plan for them as well.
Worshipping in truth and in spirit was made possible in this new covenant at the resurrection by way of believe and be baptized by the Holyspirit.
Christ put his spirit IN us to receive the thing of God. Jews and Gentiles.
The Apostles were told to wait, after they recieved, they were sent out to the world.
Part 2.
The Foundation and Corner stone.
Jesus being the corner stone and the Apostles being the foundation signifies the beginning of a groundbreaking plan to erect a building and that building is the Church.
As I mentioned previously, the commission to carry the Gospel to the world came right after the resurrection, as shown in the Gospels " Luke 24:42-49 and Matthew 28:19-20."
I agree with you that the scripture says to the Jews first, and then the Gentiles,
However, I would suggest that the Gospel was preached to them before the cross as well as Abraham.
Hebrews 3:17-19 - Hebrews 4:1-6.
"But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?
And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?
So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief. Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. FOR UNTO US WAS THE GOSPEL PREACHED, AS WELL AS UNTO THEM: BUT THE WORD PREACHED DID NOT PROFIT THEM, NOT BEING MIXED WITH FAITH IN THEM THAT HEARD IT.
For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, AND THEY TO WHOM IT WAS FIRST PREACHED ENTERED NOT IN BECAUSE OF UNBELIEF:
Also;
And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, PREACHED BEFORE THE GOSPEL UNTO ABRAHAM, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. Galatians 3:8.
More about this blindness in part 2.
Part 1
I'm enjoying my day, especially when I can sit down in front of my computer for a chance and not rely on my cellphone to communicate. I hope you are doing the same.
John 4:21-24 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
This worshiping God "who is spirit" and worshipping in truth and in spirit this ability to do so was done at the cross!
This is where the Church begin, and the partition moved out of the way for the Gentiles.
Ephesians 2:13-22
But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and HATH BROKEN DOWN THE MIDDLE WALL OF PARTITION BETWEEN US;
Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
AND ARE BUILT UPON THE FOUNDATION OF THE APOSTLES AND PROPHETS, JESUS BEING THE CHIEF CORNER STONE;
In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
See part 2.
The Foundation and Corner stone.
Thank you, I feel the same way. We should always treat each other with love and respect. If we stay open with our eyes and ears to see and to hear we never know when a light will shine on the truth. It is a lifetime journey of learning and growing, all the way to the end.
God bless,
RLW
I do think that the apostles knew before Jesus ascended that the gospel would go to the Gentiles because of Jesus had said to them about being witnesses of Him in Judea, Samaria, and to the uttermost parts of the world. Not many Jews lived or even passed through Samaria, so being told that they would bring the Gospel to Samaria would have meant that they would preach to the Samarians. Also, Jews did not live in all areas of the world, but they were told that they would preach to those parts, even those without any Jews.
They may not have thought that Samarians and Gentiles would be converted because they considered these people to be "not chosen", but they were to preach to them regardless. Many of them were surprised that salvation would come to Samaritans and Gentiles, but some like Philip and Paul, were not.
Thanks, I agree they were told that but we see it was after Stephen's death and the priests along with Saul/Paul put in prison, beat, killed, and drove out the believers in Jesus, the apostles stayed in Jerusalem. The ones Philip shared the word within Samaria must have been Jewish because the apostles did not have a problem with it because Peter and John went and prayed for them to receive the Holy Ghost, Acts 8:14-17
When Peter had his dream, it was a clear vision that God showed him the time had come for the gospel to go to the Gentiles, Acts 10. But when he told the apostles and brethren when he went to Cornelius the centurion and preached to the Gentiles, they had a big problem with it and they rebuked Peter for doing this, Acts 11, and in Acts 11:19 the ones who were persecuted and driven out were preaching the word to the Jews only.
To me, it looks the same as when Jesus told them how He was going to die and be resurrected but it was hidden from them, Luke 9:45, and we see they were devastated after He was crucified and did not believe He rose from the dead, Luke 24:10-11. It was God's perfect timing when this would happen, fulfilling prophecy and a promise.
I hope this makes sense.
God bless.
RLW
In the time of Jesus and the apostles, the Old Testament, the Septuagint, was the Scriptures they learned and used.
As the writings of the Apostles and their scribes were completed and distributed to churches, these were used for doctrine, teaching, and conduct.
By the end of the first century, the writings that are now included in the New Testament were well established as accepted Scripture by the majority of churches. When the canon was determined in the 3rd century, these writings were to be included in the new Testament books because of their widespread distribution and acceptance by the wide range of churches in the areas where the Gospel was preached and church fellowships established.
So, after the canon was established by the bishops of the church in the 3rd century, no more writings were added to this canon.
Both the Old and New Testaments were hand-copied by scribes, priests, and other clergy from century to century until the printing press was invented by Guttenberg. Then Bibles could be mass produced and made available to non-clergy, too.
Translations were made in Latin by Jerome in the 6th century, I believe. And Luther translated Jerome's translation into common German, Calvin translated from Jerome to make the Geneva Bible. In England, there were many translators between 1500 and 1800, such as Tyndale , Wycliffe, Cloverdale, and then by the commission to translate by order of King James.
In America, there were several translations made the late 1800's such as the RSV, ASV,
And then in the 1900's there came more translations throughout the century.
Even now in the 2000's new translations are being produced.
But the canon of the Old and New Testament was determined once in the 3rd century and has not changed since then.
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