Bible Discussion Thread

"If ye love me, keep my commandments." John 14:15 KJV

"Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 5:19 KJV

"Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." Matthew 5:48 KJV

Romans 6:15-23 - be servants of righteousness

Luke 6 - you are known by your "fruit"

"But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it." Luke 11:28 KJV

1 John 3:24, John 8:51, James 1:22-25, Romans 6:16

This scripture posting is intended to shine a light of truth to expose what has been deception sometimes posted here before by a few.

Some have a problem with what Jesus said about obedience and keeping His commandments. Some may even demean what Jesus said and label these words a "works doctrine" or "legalist". A "Christ follower" attacking Christ. Be careful! End times are near.

1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

Adam,

Matthew 20:30-34 And, behold, two blind men sitting by the way side, when they heard that Jesus passed by, cried out, saying, Have mercy on us, O Lord, thou Son of David. And the multitude rebuked them, because they should hold their peace: but they cried the more, saying, Have mercy on us, O Lord, thou Son of David. And Jesus stood still, and called them, and said, What will ye that I shall do unto you? They say unto him, Lord, that our eyes may be opened.

Matthew 20:34 So Jesus had compassion on them, and touched their eyes: and immediately their eyes received sight, and they followed him.

This is a "historical parable". That is it is an accurate description of an actual historical event. But like all of the miracles that Jesus did, He is teaching us in this language something about the Gospel, the Nature of Salvation.

In this case we see that the two blind men came to Jesus pleading for Mercy that He would give them physical sight. And then, having received sight they FOLLOWED JESUS.

Just as we come to Christ demanding nothing but pleading with Him that He might give us Spiritual Sight, that He might Save us. And having received our Sight, that is Christ having Saved us, WE FOLLOW JESUS.

So our FOLLOWING JESUS and OBEDIENCE to Him is the RESULT of our Salvation, never the cause. The action is God's action altogether in saving us by His Grace Alone; not of our Works in any sense whatsoever, "that any man should boast".

Galatians 2:16-21

Titus 3:4-8.

But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

The same straw man argument keeps coming back like groundhog day. I disagree with that belief because you suggest that obedience happens automatically and that is untrue. Obeying a choice. Even if we ignore all the evidence in front of us, like our personal knowledge of Christians who have fallen away and the mountain of evidence in scripture, the fact that Jesus kept reminding His followers to obey and keep His commandments over and over and over is all someone needs to know. Paul too wrote most of his books to churches (to Christians) warning them over and over not to fall from the faith and to obey. It's a choice. We have freewill and we still have temptations to sin as followers. Paul described himself wrestling with his sinful flesh, so obedience definitely did not come automatically or easily for him. Romans 7:15-20. Obedience isn't easy for any Christian.

I know Christians who claim its ok to for them to get drunk, do drugs, party hard, have premarital sex, have affairs, commit violence, commit homosexuality, because they were told by their pastor that they're "saved" and have nothing to worry about. This is a people pleasing Joel Osteen-type of doctrine that seeks to offer a watered down woke version of Christianity as long as it doesn't upset the culture's values. They love going to church and hearing that they don't sin and automatically obey. It validates their sin and feeling the comfort of feeling saved while being able to follow the world of satan, even though they don't admit this. This is a false doctrine from satan of course. Those who claim these Christians aren't real Christians need to then define in very specific terms what they think a real Christian is, and how they truly know they are one.

Adam,

I would suggest, Adam, that it is impossible for someone who has become "Born Again" to continue in a lifestyle of sin as you have described. Why?

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Read again the verses that Mr. Spencer quoted. The Miracle of l the New Birth is an action that God takes in applying Salvation to our life. It is not the result of any action that we take, or any Work that we do. And once we have become Born Again we will have a "want to" in our Soul to do the will of God and to be obedient to the Law of God and we will Grow in Grace.

Philippians 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

And we are no longer "under the Law" in the sense that Christ has paid the full penalty demanded by the Law for every sin that we have and will ever commit and has freed us from bondage to sin and Satan that was our condition before Christ saved us.

And he will complete our salvation at the Last Day by giving us our resurrected, spiritual body, in which we will live and reign with Christ forever more in the new heavens and a new earth. 1 Corinthians 15.

Well spoken and great scripture David!

God bless.

Agreed, Adam,

Christ followers should be eager to obey what God has commanded. Jesus' discourse in the Sermon on the Mount shows us the deeper meaning of obeying the commandments and His summation of the Decalogue as Loving God and Loving one's neighbor as oneself show us that obedience to God's holy moral law is expected of believers.

As you say, it is not works salvation of legalism, it is how a believer is to live out their daily lives by the power of grace the Holy Spirit supplies us. As we internalize the words of what Jesus has proclaimed concerning our obedience to what is contained in the 10 commandments, we will become more and more aware of how we disobey in ways that do not comply with the spirit of the law.

For example, just yesterday while driving, a person nearly side-swiped me by cutting in front of me. It gave me a bit of a scare and I spoke angrily out loud about the person. I immediately knew that that was a sin and so I spoke forgiveness to that person and asked the Lord to forgive me. This is how the Holy Spirit shows us our sin and also instructs us in the deeper meaning of the law that Jesus spoke about in the Sermon on the Mount. I am glad that I know what the Bible has written about the teachings of Jesus. It helps me to put parameters on my conduct by the working of the Holy Spirit in me.