Bible Discussion Thread

Will Believers be tested?

( 1 Thess. 3:3-4) The word (afflictions) in v3, and the word (tribulation) in v4 both have the same meaning in the Greek language #2347; they mean pressure, afflicted (-tion) anguish, burdened, persecution, trouble. v3 says "That no man should be moved by these (afflictions): for yourselves know that ((we are appointed thereunto))". This verse tells us that we are to see afflictions which means pressure, anguish, burdened, persecution, trouble, which also is the same meaning as the word (tribulation). v4 tells us "we should suffer tribulation"

( Acts. 14:22) "Confirming the souls of the (disciples) and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much (tribulation) enter into the kingdom of God". We must go through much tribulation, which means pressure, afflicted, anguish, burdened, persecution, trouble.

( 1 Peter. 1:7) "That the (trial) of your faith being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be (tried) with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ".

The word (trial) is #1383; it means a testing, trustworthiness, trying, test.

The word (tried) is #1381; it means to test, by implying to approve, examine, try.

This verse tells us that Believers faith will be tested, could a testing of your faith be through pressure, affliction, anguish, burdened, persecution, trouble?

( 1 Peter. 4:12-13) v12 "Beloved, think it not strange concerning the (fiery trial) which is to (try) you, as though some strange thing happened unto you.

The words (fiery trial) is #4451; it means calamity, as a test.

The word (try) is #974; it means to test, to investigate, examine, try, trial.

( Ps. 11:4-5) "The LORD is in his holy temple, the LORD'S throne is in heaven: his eyes behold, his eyelids (try) the children of men.

The word (try) is #974; it means to test, to investigate, examine, try, trial.

Yes Believers will be tested in tribulation, It is written.

Truth matters.

Hello Jimbob

There is a huge difference between the tribulations, persecutions, hardships, trials which all of that can be summed up to the "cross" we, christians, have to bear on our shoulders during the course of our christian life and the great Tribulation that will occur just before the end

All the tribulations we suffer in this life initiate either by satan, or by the sinful world and often by our wrong choices in life BUT never from God. The great Tribulation is not like any other tribulation in this world. Only the great flood and the burning of Sodom and Gomorrah can be compared to that But the latter were local tribulations/punishments, this time it will affect the whole world. That tribulation will be God's condemnation of the sinful world, His anger will be poured on earth. So as you can see they are completely different things.

Jesus said that at the end it will be like Noah's or Lot's days. First the Lord took them away and then His punishment came to those places. And this is sensible. How could the righteous people suffer during God's condemnation of the sinful world? Abraham asked the Lord, " if there are 10 righteous people in these cities still you will destruct those places? " No said the Lord. God can not destruct the sinful world as long as His people are still on earth. First He will remove them and then the Flood will come.

GBU

Giannis thank you for your comment. You are describing God's wrath Giannis, True Believers in Jesus Christ are not appointed to wrath ( 1 Thess. 5:9) but we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God ( Acts. 14:22)

The word (tribulation) is #2347; it means pressure, afflicted (-tion) anguish, burdened, persecution, trouble.

The word (wrath) is #3709; it means violent passion, or [justifiable] abhorrence, by implying punishment, anger, indignation, vengeance.

Do you not see there is a big difference in these two words? God's wrath is violent passion and punishment, anger, God's vengeance on the disobedient non-believers who are left on the earth. Then we have pressure, affliction, anguish, burdened, persecution, trouble as being tested during the tribulation period?

Immediately AFTER the tribulation Jesus comes in the clouds to gather together His elect ( Mt. 24:29-31) God does not pour out His wrath until after all True Believers are with the Lord in the clouds.

( Mt. 24:40-42) v40 "Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left". Those left are the disobedient ones, the non-believers in Jesus Christ who will face the wrath of God on the earth ( Eph. 5:6) also ( Col. 3:6)

Then we have ( Jn. 3:36) "He that ((believeth on the Son)) hath everlasting life (those who are taken) and he that ((believeth not the Son)) shall not see life; but ((the wrath of God abideth on him))". (those left on the earth)

Seeing the tribulation period and the wrath of God as the same time period will only cause confusion in understanding the prophecies for the Lastdays.

At the same time God is pouring out His wrath on the non-believers on the earth, all True Believers are at the marriage supper of the Lamb ( Rev. 19:7-9) then after this Jesus Christ comes back riding a white horse ( Rev. 19:11-16) (with) those who met Him in the clouds, this return will end the wrath of God and begin the 1000 reign of Christ on the earth.

Blessings to you Giannis.

Hi Jimbob , I'm a person who very much believes that the old testament is a foreshadow of the new . So , along those lines , I remember how when God sent those terrible plagues on the Egyptians , the Israelites witnessed them but we're not touched by them . I think it will be similar for us in the last days and that this will be the last proving of our faith , will we stand faithful as we see the kingdoms of men collapsing around us ? Will we panic , will we try to save ourselves ,or will we merely do what the Israelites in Egypt were told to do ? Go in our homes and close the doors ? The same as Rahab when the Israelites invaded Jericho ? That red material that she hung out of her window , is it a coincidence that it was red like the blood of the lamb ? Many things in the Bible happen in three's , have you noticed ? I'm sure you have . So , what's next do you think ? I think that we need to not trust in man when the very tough times come , dont go with the rest of the humans as they run to save themselves , we must trust in God and wait for our Salvation from above . We must not behave in the same way non believers do , panicking and trying to save themselves and their worldly goods . We must stay put , stay calm and wait for our God . He is a consuming fire but , we've been told , the heat of the day won't touch us , the same way that the Israelites in the desert were sheltered from the heat by the pillar of the cloud . Christ is our Pillar in the desert . We must shelter in Him .

Jema sorry for the late reply. Those plagues sent by God upon the Egyptians will be more like the wrath of God that will only be poured out on the non-believers, the disobedient ones, those who accepted the mark of the beast and worshipped his image who believe not in Jesus Christ.

( Jn. 3:36) The word (beleiveth) is #4100; it means to have faith in, to entrust, (especially one's spiritual well-being to Christ) reliance upon Christ for salvation.

The words (beleiveth not) is #544; it means to disbelieve, not believe, disobedient, obey not, unbelieving.

So the believers in Christ have everlasting life. ( Mt. 24:40-42) Those taken are the believers who receive everlasting life. Those left are the one's that the wrath of God abideth on.

( Eph. 5:6) "cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience"

( Col. 3:6) "the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience"

Jesus comes in the clouds to gather together His elect, His church, His bride in ( Mt. 24:29-31) v29 Tells us "Immediately after the tribulation". Jesus comes in the clouds AFTER the tribulation. God's wrath is not poured out until all True Believers in Jesus are caught up to meet the Lord in the clouds. ( 1 Thess. 4:16-17) and ( Mt. 24:40-42) All will go through the tribulation period but Believers in Jesus Christ are not appointed unto wrath ( 1 Thess. 5:9) God's wrath comes AFTER the tribulation period.

We will be proving our Faith during great tribulation.

You are 100% right Jema, we must trust in God and wait for our Salvation from above. This will be a time of testing when the antichrist will bring about the mark of the beast during great tribulation and many True Believers will be beheaded ( Rev. 2:10) ( Rev. 20:4)

Testing during (tribulation) #2347; pressure, afflicted, anguish, burdened, persecution, trouble.

Plagues during (wrath) #3709; violent passion, or [justifiable] abhorrence, punishment, anger, indignation, vengeance.

Thank you Jema. Do you see the timeline in this?

Hi Jimbob , I always appreciate your posts . I also believe that many Christians will live through some very tough times before Christ returns . As for our faith bring tested , I think that life itself in these kingdoms of men is one long test :) . We must also remember that when our faith is tested and we stick with our God , that means our faith is stronger ! That's definitely a good thing , so we should meet these tests head on when they come to us . Living in this world in our bodies of flesh can often be distressing , even if our own circumstances are relatively safe and happy , we have to witness the distresses of others , the cruelty and cold heartedness that's all around us . It can be hard to switch all this off sometimes . When these things get me down , that's when I pray even harder : Thy Kingdom Come ! Only when humans realise that they are not in charge of anything and that there is a God in Heaven who is all powerful , benevolent and has a wonderful plan for His creation , only when the hearts and minds of all flesh are blessed with knowledge of and appreciation for , the Holy One of Israel and His Son our Sinless Redeemer , will we all be able to truly rejoice together as children , brothers and sisters in Christ , who have the most loving and wise and generous parents we could ever desire , only then with this earth be filled with the Glory of the Lord . That Glory is us , His creation , worshipping and loving Him in peace and purity for ever .

Jema thank you for your comment. The time period the Bible calls great tribulation will be the final test for all Believers still alive before the return of our Lord Jesus Christ. In ( 2 Thess. 2:3) We are told "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, (that day is the return of Jesus Christ and our gathering together unto him as we are told in ( 2 Thess. 2:1) the rapture) except there come a (falling away) first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition".

The words (falling away) is #646; it means defection from truth, ["apostasy"] something separative, divorce, (writing of) divorcement.

The final test for Believers will cause many to fallaway from the truth. What is truth? ( John. 14:6)

The (writing of) divorcement would have to be True Believers who fallaway from the truth, from Jesus Christ!

Life may be one long test as you said Jema, but the tribulation period will be the final test (a time of trouble like never was before) the Bible speaks of that many will fail according to ( 2 Thess. 2:3). They fallaway.

I agree Jema when life gets you down we should be praying harder.

The falling away will be True Believers and if the return of our Lord Jesus Christ for His church is AFTER the tribulation as we see in ( Mt. 24:29-31) then the falling away could possibly be those who think they will be saved or rescued (before the tribulation period) and when they are facing really troublesome times they will loose their faith and fall away from Jesus Christ, thus receiving a (writing of) divorcement.

I do not post to be in agreement with others like many here seem to think is so important.

I try to show the truth when many others see things another way, that's much more important than just being in agreement with someone else.

This is why I post so much on this subject, it is truly an important one! And as this comment will show I do see it as a salvation issue!

God Bless you Jema.

That was pretty good; sounds like you wax poetic....