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BIBLE DISCUSSION THREAD 217941

Bible Discussion Thread

 
  • Antipas - 1 year ago
    Elect Called Chosen for who ?

    Genesis 17

    7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.

    8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.

    9 And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations.

    Deuteronomy 7

    6 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth

    Amos 3

    2 You only have I known of all the families of the earth: therefore I will punish you for all your iniquities.

    Matthew 15

    24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

    Luke 1

    68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,

    69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;

    70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:

    Romans 9

    1 I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,

    2 That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.

    3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:

    4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

    5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
  • S Spencer - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Hi Antipas.

    Israel is God's elect and so is the Church both for different purposes.

    If you are saying God is not through with Israel I also hold that view.

    Here's more direct set of scriptures for the "Nation" of Israel.

    Ezekiel 36:22-38.

    Therefore say unto the "HOUSE" of Israel,

    THUS SAITH THE LORD GOD; I DO NOT THIS FOR YOUR SAKES, O HOUSE OF ISRAEL BUT FOR MINE HOLY NAME'S SAKE, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.

    AND I WILL SANCTIFY MY GREAT NAME, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; AND THE HEATHEN SHALL KNOW THAT I AM THE LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I SHALL BE SANCTIFIED IN YOU BEFORE THEIR EYES.

    ( God will restore the Nation Israel for his Name sake )

    Vs 36:24 For I will take you from among the heathen, AND GATHER YOU OUT OF ALL COUNTRIES, and will bring you into your own land.

    ( God is going to gather them of ALL Countries!)

    There has never been a gathering like this and this certainly not the Church! The Church never possessed a Land.

    Vs 36:26-28. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

    And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

    AND YE SHALL DWELL IN THE LAND THAT I GAVE TO YOUR FATHERS; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

    There's no way to spiritualize this as to say this is the Church and God is going to rule in our hearts.

    And the Spirit remains absent in them today so it didn't happen at the cross.

    Again! Here's Paul pointed forward looking for salvation for his Kinsman of the flesh in Romans 11:1

    "I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

    Conclusion;

    Romans 11:25-27.

    This is after the cross!

    More to come at a later date

    God bless.
  • Antipas - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Hebrews 8:8-13

    8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

    9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

    10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

    11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

    12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

    13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

    Can you show me where this is overturned, Amos 3, is in the perfect tense meaning the act is completed.

    Deuteronomy 7

    6 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth

    Amos 3

    2 You only have I known of all the families of the earth: therefore I will punish you for all your iniquities.

    Matthew 15

    24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

    Antipas.
  • Giannis - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Hello Antipas Nice name you 've got.

    As Jesus was approaching Jerusalem, He said that:

    Matthew 23:37-39,

    "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not.

    BEHOLD, YOUR HOUSE IS LEFT UNTO DESOLATE.

    For I say unto you, YE SHALL NOT DEE ME HENCEFORTH, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord."

    God left their house abandoned, and how can they still be His chosen people?
  • Antipas - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Greetings,

    Your answer is in your post in v. 39 ..."for I say unto you, you will not see me henceforth, till you shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord."...You can see it's not implied forever more, because they will see him when he returns, and not just the southern kingdom, (house of Judah), but also the northern kingdom (house of Israel), and He will covenant with them, and they with Him.

    Albeit, the conditions will be much different as declared by Jeremiah:

    31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

    32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

    33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

    34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

    35 Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:

    36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.

    37 Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.

    and Paul in writing Hebrews, (again to the Israelites):
  • Giannis - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Hi Antypas

    The verses you stated from Jeremiah are also used by Paul in Hebrews 9:8-12. Paul considers this new covenant to Israel that Jeremiah is taking about is the New Testament that God introduced firstly to Hebrews and then to the rest of the world. But Jews didn't receive Jesus, and consequently God, so their House was left abandoned by God. Until when? Until they repend for crucifying Jesus and ask for Him. When is this going to occur? At the very end. Paul in Rom 11:25-27 says that they will be saved after the fullness of the nations will come in (the salvation).

    So who are the elect now? Romans 8:30-32,

    "30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

    31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?

    32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

    33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of GOD'S ELECT? It is God that justifieth."

    Please pay attention to the above verse 33.

    God's intention when creating the Hebrew nation through Abraham was not to have a superior race than the rest who will conquer the world. His aim is to create a nation which will preserve the faith to the true God, through which at the proper time the Savior would erect to sacrifice Himself for the salvation of all people. In God's mind was the whole mankind not just a race.

    So He established the church on Pentecost

    Ephessians 2:14-17,

    "14For he is our peace, who hath made both (Jews and gentiles) one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 15Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 16And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

    GBU"
  • Giannis - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Sorry I meant Hebrews 8:8-13, not 9:8-12.



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