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The Lord only hears the prayers of the righteous and the pope is not righteous have you not heard of some of the unholy acts the popes have done how can they be righteous they are not
or the community of believers they are intimately involved with in close Christian fellowship. We are to guard our faith by taking every thought captive to the word of God, whether our own thoughts or that of others. We need to test all things that are concerned with doctrine and moral practices. We are to be willing to spend time with those who are involved in the Catholic church or other churches that teach false and dangerous doctrines so that we can help them see how their church is failing the Lord and His mission for it and hopefully have a change of heart that leads them to repent of their affiliation with such churches and follow the lead of the Holy Spirit as to the fellowship they are to seek out to be properly fed and nurtured in the one true faith passed down by the apostles, which is contained in the New Testament books.
I have met people from most aberrant sects that claim to teach the truth about Jesus and salvation. Some have been receptive to hear from one who is outside of their sect and study for themselves if what we say is true about Jesus, salvation, and the grave errors of the sect they are involved with. We are certainly to pray for these people we know. It is one thing to point out these errors and rightfully criticize these teachings, and another thing to work at reaching out to people who are in these groups and are deceived, manipulated, brainwashed, and made to be fearful of those who are not one of them or who speak in opposition to the teachings of these sects.
In love, we should hope to be given the opportunity to be used to help these people and extend ourselves warmly to them for their sake.
Like Shaun said, there is so much corruption that has been done by members of the Vatican council of cardinals, popes, Jesuits, and local bishops, Archbishops, and priests. Martin Luther saw the corruption when he went to Rome to speak with the pope and so did Augustine. Both were appalled.
This current pope is now friend of Catholics let alone Protestants. He is selling out the moral teachings of the Catholic church to the woke special interest groups, fraternizing with both Judaism and Islam's religious leaders, both Judaism and Islam reject Jesus as the Messiah and Saviour, teach lies about Him, and speak of Him in vulgar terms. This does not mean that all who practice Judaism or Islam believe the same as their leaders and past Rabbis and Imans. Many may be quite indifferent towards Jesus, but this is still opposition to Him and those who follow Him. Judaism and Islam both are antithetical to the Christian. faith. As it stands today, there can be no meeting of the minds between true believers and those who adhere vigilantly to wither false religion. The pope likes to rub elbows with them and is pushing for a sort of melding of all three into one system under the control of Catholicism. Woe to him!
There are many in the Catholic church who are true believers. They were born into this church and have remained despite their regeneration and faith in Jesus. We need to see these folks as brethren and be willing to expound the Scriptures to them concerning the most important matters of salvation in Christ alone, by faith alone. The reliance on Scriptures only for teaching in doctrines and practice. The authority of Jesus over all believers with no one believer having more authority over others than any single person does over themselves. True, we do need to submit to our husbands, our pastors, our teachers, as is proper to the Lord, but their authority ends when they transgress against us, the church, ......cont.
I agree, every true believer is one who has been born again, reborn, regenerated (as I stated) these terms all mean the same thing as to the work of the Holy Spirit to make humans that were dead in their sins, alive in their spirits to have right fellowship with God.
You seem very passionate about what your saying but very wrong in order to win souls you speak the truth in Love that's what the Bible says Eph4:15 then you are also wrong when you tell a born again believer in Christ Jesus to fellowship with those in darkness to win them when the Bible says what fellowship does dark have with light 1John1:6 that's just to speak on a few things you wrote I'm not gonna lie to you and say I read it all because I didn't why because I see it as emotional not true People are gonna Die and end up in hell if they base there lives on what they feel is true versus studying the Bible and knowing the truth we should have no dealings with those who live in darkness because spirits are transferable. If we desire to have what they have an end up in hell then yes, we should fellowship with them but if we desire in heaven, then we must do what the word says, and that's preach the gospel to the laws, and be separated from among those that are not right which of those that are wicked, who have not receive Jesus in their heart, and that's the truth.
I also would like to point out that what I was suggesting about reaching out to those in aberrant sects that are caught up in false teachings is exactly what Paul and the disciples did and they also encouraged others to do so as well. Jesus' commission to the disciples to go out into all the world and teach all nations, preach the gospel, disciple the new believers, baptizing each int eh name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit in Matt 28:18-20. That is what I am referring to in my post. By reaching out of our own comfort level to reach those who are unsaved or who are caught up in sects that teach wrongly about Jesus and salvation, we are obeying what Jesus wanted those who are His disciples (which we all are if we are born again) to do in order to bring the true gospel to those who need it. This means that we may need to do as Jesus did by eating with tax collectors and sinners when He went to Matthew's home to eat a meal. The Pharisees chastised Him for doing so, but Jesus did this in order to bring them to belief in Him. Or how about Peter on the rooftop in Acts 10 who was told by God not to call unclean what He has made clean (referring to the Gentiles) and Peter obeyed and went to Cornelius' home, which devout Jews avoided doing. Peter brought the Gospel to this household and all came to believe, were baptized and received the Holy Spirit.
So, I was speaking of in my last paragraph of witnessing to those who are still in darkness when the Spirit opens up the opportunity to do so. I don't think that this is erroneous at all, as you say. But I do understand what you are saying about being unequally yoked with unbelievers in marriage and other relationships that involve a contract or oath. This is wise.
In 1 Jn 1:6, John is not talking about walking with unbelievers. He is talking about claiming to be in Christ (in the light) but continuing walking in the sinful ways of one who is in darkness (controlled by the sinful nature).
In my post I was talking about fellowshipping with those who are born again. Even those who remain in the Catholic church situation for now. We cannot call them unclean or of the darkness as you imply. We cannot go around judging whether or not others are truly saved simply by which church they currently attend. We will know by their profession of faith in Jesus and by their fruits. We also may understand that they may be very young in the way of the Lord and need to be helped in their study of the Scriptures. That was what I was saying in my post. We are to be ready on any occasion to give an answer to those who ask us the reason for the hope that is within us (Jesus) ( 1 Peter 3:15).
Ladybug, you have made judgement on my post but say you did not read the whole post. You can check what I have said to Scripture. Until you do that, I think that you should hold your judgment of me and my ideas I presented.
I wish you well and hope to converse with you more over time.
I want to invite you to listen to the message from the ministry that I attend. It's called City Refuge in Hephzibah Georgia. We have a channel on YouTube called the true word channel. We are live every Wednesday night and every Sunday morning.
So I read first Peter 315 and there again that's no excuse for us to compromise. It's just telling us to be ready to give an answer meanie have a heart to Mom's for parrots to preach the gospel to minister to them to tell them the full truth if I was to come into the presence of a Catholic and then give their life to the Lord and next thing, I'm gonna tell them is that you need to go to a Ministry that's filled with the word, and no compromise because
If not, they could possibly pull back into Catholicism and that's not what we want. We want them to to be delivered from darkness and into the truth so we tell them the truth.
Hello Ladybug, Your assumption of what I was saying about that those who reach out to unbelievers or those in sects that have aberrant teachings that are crucial to salvation is cause compromise is incorrect. We hold out the gospel to those we are led to, ust as Paul did.
And, yes, we are to teach our children, but the passage in Peter is within the context of being persecuted from those outside the faith and enduring hardship and mistreatment for doing good and for spreading the gospel message to those who seek us for the hope they see we have, which is Christ.
Perhaps for you it would be hard to refrain from compromising in such situations. For, it is not hard to maintain a faithful and godly stance in such situations. It was the Pharisees that Jesus railed against for their "holier than thou" heart attitude and their rigid adherence to maintaining separation from those they deemed 'unclean' or 'unholy' or 'gentiles'. We all should have the mind of Christ in this matter and be willing to reach out to those in need of the truth of the gospel in order for them to come to Jesus according to the work and leading of the Holy Spirit both in us and those we hope God to bring to salvation.
It is not what we want that matters, but God's will that matters when it comes to having those we to whom we minister to leave the Catholic Church. He may have some truly born again believers remain in the situation in order to minister to others. Then there may be a time when they leave for another fellowship. Please remember that the Catholic church only Protestant sect that has errors that are quite concerning. I could name some that most people here would consider o.k. to be involved with, but I won't name names. Certainly there are some quasi-Christian sects we should encourage people to part ways with such as Jehovah's Witness, Mormonism, Christian Science, to name a few because the teach a falsely about who Jesus is and what He has done to save us, a different Jesus/gospel
Catholics Jehovah witness Muslims Mormons. They are all in the same category together you want to separate Catholics from the rest but they all fall in the pot together. You can't justify the wicked you can't. Catholics are just as wrong as Jehovah witness they all preach a false gospel, every single one of them.
In some aspects I understand what your saying but a Christian can never compromise with another believer whether they be a babe in Christ or one who has known of the word are the Scriptures for a long time the best thing that we can do for those that say they believe in for those that are coming to the knowledge of the truth is just to give them plain truth even if it means that they're in a Catholic ministry it's best that we tell them that they need to leave the ministry and get in the Bible field ministry, so they can be preached the truth, but not compromise with them. You give them the truth right off the bat and let the Lord do the rest.
We do present them with the truth about salvation in Jesus. We leave it up to God to work on these people through the working of the Holy Spirit to lead them into what He desires for them. He will do it. We can encourage them to read
Scripture and pray for God to direct them to what He wants for them and where He wants them to fellowship. We can trust God to do all of this in His timing, not ours.
I have never stated that we compromise God's truth in communicating with these folks, nor to compromise our moral behavior when fellowshipping with them in ways such as: meeting for a meal, visit at their home or mine, or other social activities. I do not think we should attend their church services. So, I think we are on the same page here, Ladybug, but I think that you may have a certain prejudice or disdain for Catholics. I may be wrong on this, though.
If you stand before someone knowing they're in a Catholic ministry and you don't tell them that they need to leave that ministry. The Lord is going to hold you accountable for not telling them the truth so that's what he left us here for is the tell the people the truth, so you're not gonna tell me, God is gonna move them out and in his own timing because if he's allowed you to preach the truth to them that time would be then right then and now, so you're gonna tell me you're gonna stand before someone to know that they're being indoctrinated falsely but they have a desire for the truth. Are you gonna let them go back to a false gospel,
I would certainly urge them to follow the Spirit's lead in seeking a place to fellowship that teaches rightly from Scripture. But I would not be demanding, as you seem to imply. I trust the Holy Spirit to accomplish all spiritual work within a person. I would pray that what I say has an effect on the person to seek the Lord more and learn from the Holy Spirit. Both are much stronger in influencing a person than I am and can speak straight to the heart of a person and also make the changes within a person to be born again and/or to follow God more truly.
Hi Ladybug , do you think that all Christians are responsible to tell all other Christians when they are wrong in their beliefs ? What role do you think the Bible plays in all this ? Do you not think that perhaps it is the responsibility of every one who is searching for the Truth , to read the Bible for themselves ? If any Christian told me that my beliefs were incorrect , I would expect them to explain to me and prove to me, in great detail , where I am wrong , from the Bible . Those of us who call ourselves Christians but who do not attempt to read and understand at least the new testament , but preferably both old and new , are putting themselves in danger . Those who call themselves Christians and who blindly accept what another person tells them that they should believe , and who don't read the Bible for themselves , are putting themselves in danger . The Bible is where we find the Truth and where everyone who is a Christian should be going every day . Our beliefs should come from the Bible , from our reading of it . Christians should not take any humans word for anything . The Truth is with God and God had revealed the Truth to us on His book the Bible . Apparently it's a criticism to say that some one doesn't trust anyone , I think it's very sensible to trust only God and He has provided a means by which we can come to the Truth , He is the Truth , He is Everything , whithout Him there is nothing . He has given us His Word , we can find Truth only in Him , through Christ , His Word made flesh and the Bible is where we need , all of us who would be His forever , to be .
To give response to what you ask I believe that we have an obligation to tell people the truth but no, you're not gonna be able to tell all Christians that you come in contact with everything that you're doing wrong, but I do believe that if the spirit of the Lord leads you to tell them, you should tell them in obedience to the spirit of the living God and when you speak about trust, yes we should only put on trust in the Lord and his word we can have confidence in people, but we don't put our trust in him and then in truth I'm not sure if you were asking me a question are you trying to tell me something but either way I'm giving this response and confidence that is an answer to maybe a question or maybe the response and yes, we should be able to give scriptures for what it is that we speak and also to give a response to the comment about believing the full Bible, the new and old testament I absolutely agree the Bible says that the the New Testament or the Old Testament is a shadow of the new way to believe it all from the front to the back. There's something in the front for us in our living now just as well as it is something in the back we need to oh and the new, so I definitely believe we are supposed to operate in full word
Then you say they my be very young in the way so because of that, it sounds like you feel you should compromise with them because of that but no, you speak the truth and leave it up to them to make the decision what they're gonna do but never compromise never back down off the gospel
I have never said that we should compromise either the truth of Scripture nor our moral behavior when meeting with people we are discussing here. Please stop implying that I am suggesting that we do so.
I'm not implying anything I'm saying that you are compromising. If you don't tell them the truth and then just leave it up to them to either receive it or deny it but God is going to hold you accountable for not telling them that being in a Catholic ministry, as a Christian is an abomination.
I guess we will just have to disagree on the compromising part as I have explained that I do not believe in compromising the truth of the Gospel and Scripture. A Spirit led interaction with such a person will bring forth the fruit of repentance and faith designed by the Holy Spirit who works in these interactions. I firmly believe that in such interactions I am an instrument that the Spirit uses to bring those people to the truth, but the result is always a work of the Holy Spirit, not a work of me being forceful to another person. We can certainly urge those we are witnessing to turn away from their false beliefs and also warn them of the judgment to come of all.
As you imply, we are not "salesmen for Christ". The task of the True Believer is to be a witness for the True Gospel in our life and in the Gospel that we proclaim.
But it must be the True Gospel as circumscribed by the Bible Alone and in its Entirety. It must be the Whole Counsel of God. And that starts with the fact that by nature we are sinners under the Judgment of God for every sin that we have or will ever commit as God describes us in
Romans 3:10-18 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: Their feet are swift to shed blood: Destruction and misery are in their ways: And the way of peace have they not known: There is no fear of God before their eyes.
And so we are under the Wrath of God for our sins, Eternal Death. But God has provided a way of escape by paying the full penalty required for the sins of those whom He has chosen to save. So we can come to God like the Publican in Luke 18:13, striped of any self righteousness, pleading for Mercy with a broken and contrite heart. There is then the very real hope that God might save us.
Joel 2:12-14 Therefore also now, saith the LORD, turn ye even to me with all your heart, and with fasting, and with weeping, and with mourning: And rend your heart, and not your garments, and turn unto the LORD your God: for he is gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repenteth him of the evil. Who knoweth if he will return and repent, and leave a blessing behind him; even a meat offering and a drink offering unto the LORD your God.
We, by nature, do not want this kind of a Gospel. God saves us by His Grace Alone. We are not in control.
We do not "hard sell" the Gospel to others, but we, by our godly lifestyle and wholesome conversation witness to the change that has occurred in us since conversion. We are to be firm in our stance on the Gospel and at the same time be pleasant and genuine in our approach to others, knowing that we, like them, once walked in error or were unregenerated. We must be humble and sincere, showing care and concern for the one we are witnessing to. If we are harsh, likely the person we are wishing to come to Christ will harden their heart and resist submitting to the Lord because of our behavior towards them.
And you said basically the church they attend is it not so that those who are in Christ are the church so tell me how your speaking truth if your not speaking correct so again if it's not based on facts then then it's not truth
Whether on is truly in Christ or not is not determined by the Christian church they attend. There are many denominations in the broad spectrum of the Christian faith. Some say that they alone are the only true church or say that they will not fellowship with people outside of their denomination. The determining factor of whether one is in Christ or not is whether they have been born again, regenerated by the working of the Holy Spirit on their heart, soul, spirit, mind, and will to receive the gospel that tells of Christ, who died for our sins to bring us forgiveness, rose from the dead to bring us justification before God, and proclaims that those who believe in Him are redeemed, saved by grace and made a new creation in Christ. Those who have been truly born again will have the life of Christ produced within them and they will desire to live godly lives that conform to the life Christ lived in obedience to His Father and ours.
I don't care if it's a Baptist ministry I met this ministry I don't care about the name or who they associate with I said a Bible believing ministering such as a nondenominational I don't care what the name is that they carry if they're not preaching the truth they're going to leave here and stand before God and they're gonna end up in hell a Bible ministry best preaching the gospel from the front to the back people who don't believe in Christmas who don't celebrate Easter just a pure, downright truth, the gospel, the Holy Spirit, leading gardening, directing those that are preaching the truth
You said my judgment toward your post was not correct but again I stand in truth to say it was you said that to fellow ship with those in darkness no we are to minister to them and yes the verse I gave was not correct so let me fix that 2corinthians6:14 we are just as men of old are to preach and minister the Gospel to them but when you say fellowship I say your wrong fellowship means to associate with tho who share the same interests so believe the same so the disciples didn't go out to those that would not believe us to fellowship with them. They went to them to minister the gospel to them in hopes to win them to Christ.
I think that our perceived disagreement here is really a matter of semantics, particularly what we believe "fellowshipping" means.
I agree that believer use the term 'fellowshipping' to mean gathering together of like minded believers to share the truths of the Word and build one another up in faith. I agree with that narrow use of the term 'fellowshipping'.
But there is a wider use of the term 'fellowshipping' that I am referring to here: that is meeting together with others in a social situation to share personally with each other. This can include sharing a meal, as Jesus did with the sinners and tax collectors, meeting for coffee and a time to chat, going to an event together, such as a sorting event, going fishing together, camping, a cruise. Any number of activities can be referred to as fellowshipping. This is opposed to say a work assignment or required meeting.
I certainly believe we should make us of every opportunity to share the truth of Christ with others. God does bring opportunities to us to do so with people He brings into our sphere of life experience. These may be people from other denominations within Christianity or adherents to Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, atheists, etc. We are not to shun meeting with these people to share the Truth with. The Gospel is for those who are apart from God to bring them into true and right relationship with Him and begin holy fellowship with Him and the Church. The Gospel is also for those in Christ to assure us of our salvation in our Lord Jesus and remind us of what He did to save us. This always is a comfort to those who know Him. It sustains our faith to hear it preached repeatedly. We are to relate all of the Scriptures to what has been done by Jesus for the salvation of the elect of God.
Ladybug, we do not need to continue this conversation further. I have clarified myself repeatedly. So, any further discussion may not be needed.
Too right, Ladybug76. As a catholic, lapsed and returning to Jesus after many years 'away', I see the corruption at the core of the Vatican. Not only the evil 'artwork' in the Throne Room (that when mirrored is Bap**met), not only the secret and hushed-up abuse, not only the betrayal of Chinese Christians to the evil of the CCP, not only the 'serpent-styled' building, not only the recent 'audience' in which he gave face-time and handshakes to a so-called artist that encased a Crucifix in a container of his own ur*e, not only the Vatican telescope named.....Lucifer! The Vicar of Christ (hah!): vicar is from word vicarious, essentially referencing a 'replacement' on Earth, of .............Jesus! This current popery is so far removed from Our Saviour....
Period
to continue...
or the community of believers they are intimately involved with in close Christian fellowship. We are to guard our faith by taking every thought captive to the word of God, whether our own thoughts or that of others. We need to test all things that are concerned with doctrine and moral practices. We are to be willing to spend time with those who are involved in the Catholic church or other churches that teach false and dangerous doctrines so that we can help them see how their church is failing the Lord and His mission for it and hopefully have a change of heart that leads them to repent of their affiliation with such churches and follow the lead of the Holy Spirit as to the fellowship they are to seek out to be properly fed and nurtured in the one true faith passed down by the apostles, which is contained in the New Testament books.
I have met people from most aberrant sects that claim to teach the truth about Jesus and salvation. Some have been receptive to hear from one who is outside of their sect and study for themselves if what we say is true about Jesus, salvation, and the grave errors of the sect they are involved with. We are certainly to pray for these people we know. It is one thing to point out these errors and rightfully criticize these teachings, and another thing to work at reaching out to people who are in these groups and are deceived, manipulated, brainwashed, and made to be fearful of those who are not one of them or who speak in opposition to the teachings of these sects.
In love, we should hope to be given the opportunity to be used to help these people and extend ourselves warmly to them for their sake.
Like Shaun said, there is so much corruption that has been done by members of the Vatican council of cardinals, popes, Jesuits, and local bishops, Archbishops, and priests. Martin Luther saw the corruption when he went to Rome to speak with the pope and so did Augustine. Both were appalled.
This current pope is now friend of Catholics let alone Protestants. He is selling out the moral teachings of the Catholic church to the woke special interest groups, fraternizing with both Judaism and Islam's religious leaders, both Judaism and Islam reject Jesus as the Messiah and Saviour, teach lies about Him, and speak of Him in vulgar terms. This does not mean that all who practice Judaism or Islam believe the same as their leaders and past Rabbis and Imans. Many may be quite indifferent towards Jesus, but this is still opposition to Him and those who follow Him. Judaism and Islam both are antithetical to the Christian. faith. As it stands today, there can be no meeting of the minds between true believers and those who adhere vigilantly to wither false religion. The pope likes to rub elbows with them and is pushing for a sort of melding of all three into one system under the control of Catholicism. Woe to him!
There are many in the Catholic church who are true believers. They were born into this church and have remained despite their regeneration and faith in Jesus. We need to see these folks as brethren and be willing to expound the Scriptures to them concerning the most important matters of salvation in Christ alone, by faith alone. The reliance on Scriptures only for teaching in doctrines and practice. The authority of Jesus over all believers with no one believer having more authority over others than any single person does over themselves. True, we do need to submit to our husbands, our pastors, our teachers, as is proper to the Lord, but their authority ends when they transgress against us, the church, ......cont.
I agree, every true believer is one who has been born again, reborn, regenerated (as I stated) these terms all mean the same thing as to the work of the Holy Spirit to make humans that were dead in their sins, alive in their spirits to have right fellowship with God.
Yes, I do. The Holy Spirit helps me to do so just like it is with all believers.
I also would like to point out that what I was suggesting about reaching out to those in aberrant sects that are caught up in false teachings is exactly what Paul and the disciples did and they also encouraged others to do so as well. Jesus' commission to the disciples to go out into all the world and teach all nations, preach the gospel, disciple the new believers, baptizing each int eh name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit in Matt 28:18-20. That is what I am referring to in my post. By reaching out of our own comfort level to reach those who are unsaved or who are caught up in sects that teach wrongly about Jesus and salvation, we are obeying what Jesus wanted those who are His disciples (which we all are if we are born again) to do in order to bring the true gospel to those who need it. This means that we may need to do as Jesus did by eating with tax collectors and sinners when He went to Matthew's home to eat a meal. The Pharisees chastised Him for doing so, but Jesus did this in order to bring them to belief in Him. Or how about Peter on the rooftop in Acts 10 who was told by God not to call unclean what He has made clean (referring to the Gentiles) and Peter obeyed and went to Cornelius' home, which devout Jews avoided doing. Peter brought the Gospel to this household and all came to believe, were baptized and received the Holy Spirit.
So, I was speaking of in my last paragraph of witnessing to those who are still in darkness when the Spirit opens up the opportunity to do so. I don't think that this is erroneous at all, as you say. But I do understand what you are saying about being unequally yoked with unbelievers in marriage and other relationships that involve a contract or oath. This is wise.
In 1 Jn 1:6, John is not talking about walking with unbelievers. He is talking about claiming to be in Christ (in the light) but continuing walking in the sinful ways of one who is in darkness (controlled by the sinful nature).
In my post I was talking about fellowshipping with those who are born again. Even those who remain in the Catholic church situation for now. We cannot call them unclean or of the darkness as you imply. We cannot go around judging whether or not others are truly saved simply by which church they currently attend. We will know by their profession of faith in Jesus and by their fruits. We also may understand that they may be very young in the way of the Lord and need to be helped in their study of the Scriptures. That was what I was saying in my post. We are to be ready on any occasion to give an answer to those who ask us the reason for the hope that is within us (Jesus) ( 1 Peter 3:15).
Ladybug, you have made judgement on my post but say you did not read the whole post. You can check what I have said to Scripture. Until you do that, I think that you should hold your judgment of me and my ideas I presented.
I wish you well and hope to converse with you more over time.
If not, they could possibly pull back into Catholicism and that's not what we want. We want them to to be delivered from darkness and into the truth so we tell them the truth.
And, yes, we are to teach our children, but the passage in Peter is within the context of being persecuted from those outside the faith and enduring hardship and mistreatment for doing good and for spreading the gospel message to those who seek us for the hope they see we have, which is Christ.
Perhaps for you it would be hard to refrain from compromising in such situations. For, it is not hard to maintain a faithful and godly stance in such situations. It was the Pharisees that Jesus railed against for their "holier than thou" heart attitude and their rigid adherence to maintaining separation from those they deemed 'unclean' or 'unholy' or 'gentiles'. We all should have the mind of Christ in this matter and be willing to reach out to those in need of the truth of the gospel in order for them to come to Jesus according to the work and leading of the Holy Spirit both in us and those we hope God to bring to salvation.
It is not what we want that matters, but God's will that matters when it comes to having those we to whom we minister to leave the Catholic Church. He may have some truly born again believers remain in the situation in order to minister to others. Then there may be a time when they leave for another fellowship. Please remember that the Catholic church only Protestant sect that has errors that are quite concerning. I could name some that most people here would consider o.k. to be involved with, but I won't name names. Certainly there are some quasi-Christian sects we should encourage people to part ways with such as Jehovah's Witness, Mormonism, Christian Science, to name a few because the teach a falsely about who Jesus is and what He has done to save us, a different Jesus/gospel
We do present them with the truth about salvation in Jesus. We leave it up to God to work on these people through the working of the Holy Spirit to lead them into what He desires for them. He will do it. We can encourage them to read
Scripture and pray for God to direct them to what He wants for them and where He wants them to fellowship. We can trust God to do all of this in His timing, not ours.
I have never stated that we compromise God's truth in communicating with these folks, nor to compromise our moral behavior when fellowshipping with them in ways such as: meeting for a meal, visit at their home or mine, or other social activities. I do not think we should attend their church services. So, I think we are on the same page here, Ladybug, but I think that you may have a certain prejudice or disdain for Catholics. I may be wrong on this, though.
I would certainly urge them to follow the Spirit's lead in seeking a place to fellowship that teaches rightly from Scripture. But I would not be demanding, as you seem to imply. I trust the Holy Spirit to accomplish all spiritual work within a person. I would pray that what I say has an effect on the person to seek the Lord more and learn from the Holy Spirit. Both are much stronger in influencing a person than I am and can speak straight to the heart of a person and also make the changes within a person to be born again and/or to follow God more truly.
I have never said that we should compromise either the truth of Scripture nor our moral behavior when meeting with people we are discussing here. Please stop implying that I am suggesting that we do so.
I guess we will just have to disagree on the compromising part as I have explained that I do not believe in compromising the truth of the Gospel and Scripture. A Spirit led interaction with such a person will bring forth the fruit of repentance and faith designed by the Holy Spirit who works in these interactions. I firmly believe that in such interactions I am an instrument that the Spirit uses to bring those people to the truth, but the result is always a work of the Holy Spirit, not a work of me being forceful to another person. We can certainly urge those we are witnessing to turn away from their false beliefs and also warn them of the judgment to come of all.
As you imply, we are not "salesmen for Christ". The task of the True Believer is to be a witness for the True Gospel in our life and in the Gospel that we proclaim.
But it must be the True Gospel as circumscribed by the Bible Alone and in its Entirety. It must be the Whole Counsel of God. And that starts with the fact that by nature we are sinners under the Judgment of God for every sin that we have or will ever commit as God describes us in
Romans 3:10-18 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: Their feet are swift to shed blood: Destruction and misery are in their ways: And the way of peace have they not known: There is no fear of God before their eyes.
And so we are under the Wrath of God for our sins, Eternal Death. But God has provided a way of escape by paying the full penalty required for the sins of those whom He has chosen to save. So we can come to God like the Publican in Luke 18:13, striped of any self righteousness, pleading for Mercy with a broken and contrite heart. There is then the very real hope that God might save us.
Joel 2:12-14 Therefore also now, saith the LORD, turn ye even to me with all your heart, and with fasting, and with weeping, and with mourning: And rend your heart, and not your garments, and turn unto the LORD your God: for he is gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repenteth him of the evil. Who knoweth if he will return and repent, and leave a blessing behind him; even a meat offering and a drink offering unto the LORD your God.
We, by nature, do not want this kind of a Gospel. God saves us by His Grace Alone. We are not in control.
We do not "hard sell" the Gospel to others, but we, by our godly lifestyle and wholesome conversation witness to the change that has occurred in us since conversion. We are to be firm in our stance on the Gospel and at the same time be pleasant and genuine in our approach to others, knowing that we, like them, once walked in error or were unregenerated. We must be humble and sincere, showing care and concern for the one we are witnessing to. If we are harsh, likely the person we are wishing to come to Christ will harden their heart and resist submitting to the Lord because of our behavior towards them.
Whether on is truly in Christ or not is not determined by the Christian church they attend. There are many denominations in the broad spectrum of the Christian faith. Some say that they alone are the only true church or say that they will not fellowship with people outside of their denomination. The determining factor of whether one is in Christ or not is whether they have been born again, regenerated by the working of the Holy Spirit on their heart, soul, spirit, mind, and will to receive the gospel that tells of Christ, who died for our sins to bring us forgiveness, rose from the dead to bring us justification before God, and proclaims that those who believe in Him are redeemed, saved by grace and made a new creation in Christ. Those who have been truly born again will have the life of Christ produced within them and they will desire to live godly lives that conform to the life Christ lived in obedience to His Father and ours.
I think that our perceived disagreement here is really a matter of semantics, particularly what we believe "fellowshipping" means.
I agree that believer use the term 'fellowshipping' to mean gathering together of like minded believers to share the truths of the Word and build one another up in faith. I agree with that narrow use of the term 'fellowshipping'.
But there is a wider use of the term 'fellowshipping' that I am referring to here: that is meeting together with others in a social situation to share personally with each other. This can include sharing a meal, as Jesus did with the sinners and tax collectors, meeting for coffee and a time to chat, going to an event together, such as a sorting event, going fishing together, camping, a cruise. Any number of activities can be referred to as fellowshipping. This is opposed to say a work assignment or required meeting.
I certainly believe we should make us of every opportunity to share the truth of Christ with others. God does bring opportunities to us to do so with people He brings into our sphere of life experience. These may be people from other denominations within Christianity or adherents to Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, atheists, etc. We are not to shun meeting with these people to share the Truth with. The Gospel is for those who are apart from God to bring them into true and right relationship with Him and begin holy fellowship with Him and the Church. The Gospel is also for those in Christ to assure us of our salvation in our Lord Jesus and remind us of what He did to save us. This always is a comfort to those who know Him. It sustains our faith to hear it preached repeatedly. We are to relate all of the Scriptures to what has been done by Jesus for the salvation of the elect of God.
Ladybug, we do not need to continue this conversation further. I have clarified myself repeatedly. So, any further discussion may not be needed.
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