I have said several times if we do not see the tribulation period and the wrath of God as being completely different time periods, that it will cause confusion in our understanding of prophecy in the Lastdays. If we get one thing wrong such as this, it will cause other parts of our interpretation of prophecy to not be correct. When this happens we have to twist Scripture to fit our understanding, or as I have said before we would have to read things into Scripture that's not there.
In ( Joel 2:31) We are told "The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, ((BEFORE)) the great and the terrible day of the LORD come". The sun turns dark and the moon to blood ((before)) the day of the LORD comes.
When does this happen in the book of Revelation?
( Rev 6:12-13) v12 "And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal. and, lo, there was a great earthquake; ((and the sun became black)) as sackcloth of hair, and ((the moon became as blood)). v13 "And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind". The sun is dark, the moon to blood, and the stars fall from heaven, all this happens at the 6th seal. Then if we look at ( Rev 6:14-17) we see the wrath of the Lamb is come in verse 17.
Do we see this any other place in the Bible? Yes we do in ( Mt 24:29-31) "Immediately ((after the tribulation)) of those days shall ((the sun be darkened)), and ((the moon shall not give her light)), and ((the stars shall fall from heaven)) and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken". v30 "and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory". v31 "And he shall send his angels with the great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect".
After the tribulation the sun is darkened, moon shall not give her light, the stars fall from heaven, THEN the Son of man comes in the clouds to gather together His elect. THEN the wrath of God.
Reading you comment above ref. Joel 2:31, and Rev.6:12-17, and Matt.24:29-31concerning "The sun turns dark and the moon to blood ((before)) the day of the LORD comes",
first of all I remember that "there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the Sun, and the Moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve Stars". Once "the sun tuns dark" the woman will be in darkness(terrible), by the way, at "midnight there was(there will be)a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet Him. Then all those virgins arose(will arise), and trimmed(and will trim) their lamps.
And the foolish said(will say) unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out"; Matt.25:6-8. The lamps is gone out at midnight? In full midnight darkness, in a so perilous hour?
In the above comparison described, I am trying to highlight the issue of the sun becoming dark as prophesied. I don't see or interpret as being a physical phenomenon.
Based in Revelation 9:1-3&10&6 & 11-12
1 I saw a STAR fall from heaven unto the earth( Isaiah 14:12-14 combined with 2 Thess.2:3-4): and to HIM was given the key of the bottomless pit.
2 And HE opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the SUN and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit
3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power
10 And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months
6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.
11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon
12 One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter
It is very clear that the tribulation is a different and separate event than the wrath of God. Also there are many Bible verses that claim the elect WILL suffer tribulation, but not Gods wrath.
See,what matters and prevails is the Word of GOD.The Word is GOD,self-executing,understand?
1 Thess.4:16KJV reveals:The Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout,with the voice of the archangel,and with the trump of GOD:and the dead in Christ shall rise first:The archangel has a name:Michael.The Lord Himself shall descend with the voice of archangel.There will be a WAR against the Devil's world in this current time of Apocalypse
Dan.12:1-3:-1 And at that time shall Michael stand up,the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people:and there shall be a time of trouble(Matt.24:15-25),such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time:and at that time thy people shall be delivered,every one that shall be found written in the book
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake,some to everlasting life,and some to shame and everlasting contempt
3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament;and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever
Rev.11:15-18KJV
15 And the seventh angel(actually an archangel)sounded;and there were(will be)great voices in heaven,saying,The kingdoms OF THIS WORLD are become the kingdoms of our Lord,and of his Christ;and he shall reign for ever and ever
18 And the nations were(will be) angry,and thy wrath(GOD'S WRATH)is come,and the time of the dead,that they should be judged( Daniel 12:3),and that thou should give reward unto thy servants the prophets,and to the saints,and them that fear thy name,small and great;and should DESTROY them which destroy the earth
Dan.12:10-Many shall be purified,and made white,and tried;but the wicked shall do wickedly:and none of the wicked shall understand;but the wise shall understand.11-From the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away,and the abomination(of desolation)set up,there shall be 1290 days.12-Blessed is he that waiteth, and comes to 1335 days.
Elliux2 Thank you for your comment, sadly many people in this group do not see this as clearly as you and I do. If one does not see this, it makes it truly impossible to see the True timeline in the Lastdays prophecies. It would be like trying to put a puzzle together with pieces that just don't fit, it cannot be done! And it would seem that the pre-tribulation rapture theory is the first piece of that puzzle that does not fit, which causes confusion in other parts of the prophecies. A perfect example of this is all believers in the pre-trib rapture will see ( Mt 24:29-31) as the return of Jesus on a white horse because v29 clearly says "Immediately after the tribulation". They say it has to be the return on a horse because it says ((after the tribulation))
Thats also why pre-trib believers say Mt Ch. 24 is only for the Jews, but ( Mark 13:24-27) tells us the same thing. And the last verse in that chapter is ( Mark 13:37) which says "And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch". This is prophecy for us for the time we are living right now just like ( Mt 24:29-31) is prophecy for us today!
I have said several times if we do not see the tribulation period and the wrath of God as being completely different time periods, that it will cause confusion in our understanding of prophecy in the Lastdays. If we get one thing wrong such as this, it will cause other parts of our interpretation of prophecy to not be correct. When this happens we have to twist Scripture to fit our understanding, or as I have said before we would have to read things into Scripture that's not there.
In ( Joel 2:31) We are told "The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, ((BEFORE)) the great and the terrible day of the LORD come". The sun turns dark and the moon to blood ((before)) the day of the LORD comes.
When does this happen in the book of Revelation?
( Rev 6:12-13) v12 "And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal. and, lo, there was a great earthquake; ((and the sun became black)) as sackcloth of hair, and ((the moon became as blood)). v13 "And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind". The sun is dark, the moon to blood, and the stars fall from heaven, all this happens at the 6th seal. Then if we look at ( Rev 6:14-17) we see the wrath of the Lamb is come in verse 17.
Do we see this any other place in the Bible? Yes we do in ( Mt 24:29-31) "Immediately ((after the tribulation)) of those days shall ((the sun be darkened)), and ((the moon shall not give her light)), and ((the stars shall fall from heaven)) and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken". v30 "and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory". v31 "And he shall send his angels with the great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect".
After the tribulation the sun is darkened, moon shall not give her light, the stars fall from heaven, THEN the Son of man comes in the clouds to gather together His elect. THEN the wrath of God.
Greetings in Christ JESUS
Reading you comment above ref. Joel 2:31, and Rev.6:12-17, and Matt.24:29-31concerning "The sun turns dark and the moon to blood ((before)) the day of the LORD comes",
first of all I remember that "there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the Sun, and the Moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve Stars". Once "the sun tuns dark" the woman will be in darkness(terrible), by the way, at "midnight there was(there will be)a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet Him. Then all those virgins arose(will arise), and trimmed(and will trim) their lamps.
And the foolish said(will say) unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out"; Matt.25:6-8. The lamps is gone out at midnight? In full midnight darkness, in a so perilous hour?
In the above comparison described, I am trying to highlight the issue of the sun becoming dark as prophesied. I don't see or interpret as being a physical phenomenon.
Based in Revelation 9:1-3&10&6 & 11-12
1 I saw a STAR fall from heaven unto the earth( Isaiah 14:12-14 combined with 2 Thess.2:3-4): and to HIM was given the key of the bottomless pit.
2 And HE opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the SUN and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit
3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power
10 And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months
6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.
11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon
12 One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter
GOD BLESS
Thank you for the verses and comment!
Greetings in Christ JESUS
See,what matters and prevails is the Word of GOD.The Word is GOD,self-executing,understand?
1 Thess.4:16KJV reveals:The Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout,with the voice of the archangel,and with the trump of GOD:and the dead in Christ shall rise first:The archangel has a name:Michael.The Lord Himself shall descend with the voice of archangel.There will be a WAR against the Devil's world in this current time of Apocalypse
Dan.12:1-3:-1 And at that time shall Michael stand up,the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people:and there shall be a time of trouble(Matt.24:15-25),such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time:and at that time thy people shall be delivered,every one that shall be found written in the book
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake,some to everlasting life,and some to shame and everlasting contempt
3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament;and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever
Rev.11:15-18KJV
15 And the seventh angel(actually an archangel)sounded;and there were(will be)great voices in heaven,saying,The kingdoms OF THIS WORLD are become the kingdoms of our Lord,and of his Christ;and he shall reign for ever and ever
18 And the nations were(will be) angry,and thy wrath(GOD'S WRATH)is come,and the time of the dead,that they should be judged( Daniel 12:3),and that thou should give reward unto thy servants the prophets,and to the saints,and them that fear thy name,small and great;and should DESTROY them which destroy the earth
Dan.12:10-Many shall be purified,and made white,and tried;but the wicked shall do wickedly:and none of the wicked shall understand;but the wise shall understand.11-From the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away,and the abomination(of desolation)set up,there shall be 1290 days.12-Blessed is he that waiteth, and comes to 1335 days.
Thats also why pre-trib believers say Mt Ch. 24 is only for the Jews, but ( Mark 13:24-27) tells us the same thing. And the last verse in that chapter is ( Mark 13:37) which says "And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch". This is prophecy for us for the time we are living right now just like ( Mt 24:29-31) is prophecy for us today!
Again thank you Elliux2 for your comment.
Blessings to you and all who seek His Truth.
Always seeking the truth. I love the truth.
Love your comment "blessings to all who seek the truth". Amen to that!!!!!
This comment thread is locked. Please enter a new comment below to start a new comment thread.
Note: Comment threads older than 2 months are automatically locked.
Do you have a Bible comment or question?
Posting comments is currently unavailable due to high demand on the server.
Please check back in an hour or more. Thank you for your patience!
Report Comment
Which best represents the problem with the comment?