I would like to know...is the biblical description of our earth in Genesis a salvation issue? I have heard many people discussing this. Personally, I believe that the Bible is absolutely the Word of God and because it is impossible for God to lie- the earth, seas, heavens and firmament are 100% as God describes them to us.
A few of my Christian brethren refuse to discuss "flat earth", dismissing it as unimportant to salvation. I do not like the term "flat earth", I prefer to use "plane" we live on a plane, under a firmament etc. I am alarmed when people I care about appear so obviously sold on this great deception by our enemy. Next to his infamous work on Eve in the Garden..to me this is THE biggest and perhaps consequential lie facing us today.
I guess my question is how can anyone say they believe everything written in the bible as truth and yet this one important piece of our history (and our faith in our Father) is the "exception". Isn't that heresy? or I don't know the proper word. Please help me to understand as I am a "baby Christian" and this is really weighing on my heart.
Thank you in advance for your consideration. God bless you all.
AMEN GOD bless all through faith in Christ LORD of all.
"what our senses tell us when we pay attention" oh how very true Charlie!!!
I am getting closer to organizing my thoughts in a way that I can hopefully better express what I mean. Oh my...
I am a firm KJ Bible believer. Some of my brethren are not. (So I try to generically just use "bible" when discussing "sensitive" topics I do not want the issue of my concerns to become about what bible is best etc etc etc.) when I am literally concerned about salvation issues it discourages me that something like the shape of our world has been turned into such a emotionally triggering "taboo". I would like to walk up to a brethren and say "hey, is my salvation partly based on how much I believe in the truth of the Word of God? Like, I know the bible tells me how God created the earth but what if I don't believe that one part of the bible?"
Am I positioning my salvation and eternal lifetime with my King, in jeopardy because of this? Oh gosh!
As I am re-reading what i just typed, a voice? in my head said "Faith is believing in what is unseen, believing without having seen?" ??????? What .....
Is that a bible verse??? I'm a baby Christian....haven't even learned to walk yet!! Oh gosh
In the congregation that I belong to , we have a certain set of beliefs , to be baptized into our congregation you have to agree with us on these certain beliefs . Outside of these beliefs , we are allowed a certain amount of freedom to believe what we will , as long as our beliefs don't contradict or negate the particular ones that we hold as beyond any doubt or interpretation . Wether or not the earth is flat or round would be an issue for each individual to conclude . We don't argue ,amongst the congregation , about these other beliefs as that might cause us to fall out of friendship with each other . So, we are free to believe that the earth is flat if we want to but , we are not expected to be argumentative about it :) . Maybe your brethren don't want to discuss it with you in case it degenerates into an argument and causes bad feeling ? If you are allowed your beliefs then you must allow others theirs . We all have the right not to get into discussions that we don't want to and we must respect that right in each other .
Thank you for your informed and considerate reply to my question. Every point you make is very understandable to me, in fact though not a member of your congregation I myself hold many of these same views. I think I erred when posing my question? I tend to get a little scattered at times so please forgive.
Perhaps maybe my question would be better asked this way:
What is necessary for my salvation? Is my salvation based upon believing in the totality of the truths presented in the bible?
ughhhh I'm still not getting it right!!!!
Heavenly Father, I lift my heart to you and plead your spirit to give me the words I need to seek truth and counsel in fellowship with fellow believers in this forum. LORD, I prayed for direction and you have given me an amazing set of tools to be used, including this forum at KJV. Redeemer, my King, please hear my prayer and if but one other with pray this in agreement with me then thy will be done LORD, and let it be so. Amen Amen
I believe every word of the Bible , I believe that God Himself has preserved His Word , the Bible , for our benefit, in order that we might learn of and draw closer to Him and to His Only Begotten Son , Jesus Christ . I am astonished many times , by the fact that we can all read the same book and yet believe different things . For example, the congregation that I belong to does not believe in such a thing as the trinity , so any one who does believe in it wouldn't want to be in fellowship with us . At the end of the day ,God is one , He is our creator and sustainer , He is the Holy One of Israel , the God of Abraham ,Isaac and Jacob and the Father of Jesus Christ , our Sinless Redeemer . He knows who is His and thankfully , He is very merciful :) . Keep reading the Bible with an open heart and mind and you will grow in faith and understanding for sure . May God bless you .
I also believe ALL God's words are TRUE; but not all words are literally true, the TRUTH of the scripture is hidden within, and the answer ls found in other scriptures.
Meditate on Genesis 5:2
Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name ADAM, in the day they were created.
Can you please expand on your suggestion to "meditate" on the bible passage? When I hear the word meditate I am thrust into the "new age" domain of transcendental and "higher power" rituals. If there is a way or method this can be used to honor God I will appreciate knowing this. Also, I don't know how to meditate or what have you.
I'm with you, I believe the Bible is the inspired word of God given to us. A reason we differ, preconceived ideas are obstacles to the truth. We all grow up in cultures where we inherit certain biased beliefs, values, and attitudes from our parents, teachers, religious affiliation, peer groups, and friends. When we study the Bible unless we can clear these obstacles, and beliefs when we read our sub-conscience mind will block the true meaning with the ones we have stored in our mind.
We must empty our minds as we know nothing, take out the garbage, pray, and let the Spirit of Truth show us the true meaning of what we are studying. We must keep in mind we get milk first and then meat and it can be years between.
I also believe in one God and Father of all, who is the God and Father of Jesus, the Son of God, the Messiah/Christ.
John 20:17Romans 15:62 Corinthians 1:32 Corinthians 11:31Ephesians 1:3Ephesians 1:17Ephesians 5:20Colossians 1:31 Peter 1:31 Corinthians 8:6.
I agree with Gigi, We are to gather from those who are gifted to teach, preach, and proclaim.
Jesus said; He is truth!
He also said, "My sheep hear my voice!
When truth is proclaimed it's Christ spirit in us that discerns it.
In 1 Corinthians 3:5-7 Paul illustrates this concept of teaching.
We are to do as the Bereans in Acts 17:11 and test the scriptures to see if these things be true.
I believe we should approach the scripture as babes in Christ and not just examine others doctrine but also constantly examining our own, testing scripture with scripture and applying proper hermeneutics.
We take what we have learned from others and see if it holds up over time as we grow.
I can see where you are coming from in this post. We do need to test what we have learned to be sure that we are believing correctly according to the bible.
However, I do not agree that we are to set aside all that we have been taught or learned in order to gain truth from the Word.
The Israelites were instructed to teach their children the Word of God in Deuteronomy. And Paul certainly tells Timothy, Titus, and others to teach sound doctrine to those under their care. As parents we are responsible for teaching our children from infancy about God and what the Scriptures say, as the mother and grandmother of Timothy did. As pastors we are to teach those who attend our services sound doctrine from God's Word. As believers, we are to study the Scriptures for ourselves to grow up in doctrinal purity and correct understanding, All of these ways of intaking spiritual knowledge are the work of the Holy Spirit. We should have a teachable spirit not only to learn from Scriptures ourselves, but from those who God has placed over us as teachers. I think it is somewhat dangerous to believers to instruct them to abandon what they have been taught by godly believers when they attempt to study the Bible independently. I am not saying that we should take everything taught to us from others as absolute truth, but, when we are of an age to think critically and examine between the Scriptures and what we already know we are to prayerfully sift through our beliefs in light of the Scriptures by the working of the Holy Spirit in us.
I agree with what you are saying, I know I have, and you have said here before, we grow daily, and our understandings have changed over the years. The Holy Spirit opens our eyes to truth as we can bear it or willing to use it. What I am saying is when we study, we are in search of truth whether it agrees with what we have been taught or not.
But when we study in prayer without what we have been taught in our mind and if what we are shown by the Spirit is what we have been taught, great. What if it is not? Are we willing to accept the truth? What will it cost? Are we willing to be persecuted by church members, friends', family members if we accept the truth and speak it? We are to worship God, in spirit and in truth, John 4:23-24.
If we are not willing to embrace the truth, regardless of what it will cost us, it will never be shown to us. I know we do not agree on one doctrine, but are we willing to honestly study any doctrine for the truth? All I say is in love and caring. I hope you take this in love and are not offended.
There is much we agree on. But the things we disagree on we must continue to study, as you say, since we both can't be right, but we both can be wrong on the same topic.
Yes Ronald , how many of us can honestly say that we came to the Bible never having ever heard anything about God or Jesus ? Even if we don't remember , we probably heard things that have lodged somewhere in our subconscious . I can't tell you how many Christians know nothing about Christ's one thousand year reign on earth . They believe what they have been told because they are either too lazy to read it for themselves or because they've been led to believe that the Bible is too hard for ordinary people to understand . I want to get to know my God in person , I want to get to know my Saviour in person , I want to feel that personal connection that comes from intimacy . This is why God has preserved His Word , so we can each of us , draw close to Him and grow in faith because the day will come , when our faith will be tested and we have to feel close to Him to ensure that we stick with Him no matter what our eyes and brains might be telling us , no matter what is going on in this world , we have to know Him to trust Him and stick with Him through all of our trials and tribulations . Things are going to get very tough for many of us before Christ returns , we must be convinced in our hearts and minds , that our God is with us always , every second . Thy Kingdom Come ! Much love in Christ .
This was such a beautiful reply. So thoughtful and so convicted in your stance. I thank you so much for this. I felt everything you wrote, within my heart. I long for this type of bond with our Father and my redeemer King Christ Jesus.
God bless every single one of you who has taken the time and effort to provide me with your valuable insights and prayers.
A few of my Christian brethren refuse to discuss "flat earth", dismissing it as unimportant to salvation. I do not like the term "flat earth", I prefer to use "plane" we live on a plane, under a firmament etc. I am alarmed when people I care about appear so obviously sold on this great deception by our enemy. Next to his infamous work on Eve in the Garden..to me this is THE biggest and perhaps consequential lie facing us today.
I guess my question is how can anyone say they believe everything written in the bible as truth and yet this one important piece of our history (and our faith in our Father) is the "exception". Isn't that heresy? or I don't know the proper word. Please help me to understand as I am a "baby Christian" and this is really weighing on my heart.
Thank you in advance for your consideration. God bless you all.
[Comment Removed]
Thank you for your reply and
AMEN GOD bless all through faith in Christ LORD of all.
"what our senses tell us when we pay attention" oh how very true Charlie!!!
I am getting closer to organizing my thoughts in a way that I can hopefully better express what I mean. Oh my...
I am a firm KJ Bible believer. Some of my brethren are not. (So I try to generically just use "bible" when discussing "sensitive" topics I do not want the issue of my concerns to become about what bible is best etc etc etc.) when I am literally concerned about salvation issues it discourages me that something like the shape of our world has been turned into such a emotionally triggering "taboo". I would like to walk up to a brethren and say "hey, is my salvation partly based on how much I believe in the truth of the Word of God? Like, I know the bible tells me how God created the earth but what if I don't believe that one part of the bible?"
Am I positioning my salvation and eternal lifetime with my King, in jeopardy because of this? Oh gosh!
As I am re-reading what i just typed, a voice? in my head said "Faith is believing in what is unseen, believing without having seen?" ??????? What .....
Is that a bible verse??? I'm a baby Christian....haven't even learned to walk yet!! Oh gosh
God bless you Charlie Slaves.
[Comment Removed]
Thank you for your informed and considerate reply to my question. Every point you make is very understandable to me, in fact though not a member of your congregation I myself hold many of these same views. I think I erred when posing my question? I tend to get a little scattered at times so please forgive.
Perhaps maybe my question would be better asked this way:
What is necessary for my salvation? Is my salvation based upon believing in the totality of the truths presented in the bible?
ughhhh I'm still not getting it right!!!!
Heavenly Father, I lift my heart to you and plead your spirit to give me the words I need to seek truth and counsel in fellowship with fellow believers in this forum. LORD, I prayed for direction and you have given me an amazing set of tools to be used, including this forum at KJV. Redeemer, my King, please hear my prayer and if but one other with pray this in agreement with me then thy will be done LORD, and let it be so. Amen Amen
I also believe ALL God's words are TRUE; but not all words are literally true, the TRUTH of the scripture is hidden within, and the answer ls found in other scriptures.
Meditate on Genesis 5:2
Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name ADAM, in the day they were created.
God bless you
Can you please expand on your suggestion to "meditate" on the bible passage? When I hear the word meditate I am thrust into the "new age" domain of transcendental and "higher power" rituals. If there is a way or method this can be used to honor God I will appreciate knowing this. Also, I don't know how to meditate or what have you.
Thank you so much for sharing in this thread.
God bless you!
I'm with you, I believe the Bible is the inspired word of God given to us. A reason we differ, preconceived ideas are obstacles to the truth. We all grow up in cultures where we inherit certain biased beliefs, values, and attitudes from our parents, teachers, religious affiliation, peer groups, and friends. When we study the Bible unless we can clear these obstacles, and beliefs when we read our sub-conscience mind will block the true meaning with the ones we have stored in our mind.
We must empty our minds as we know nothing, take out the garbage, pray, and let the Spirit of Truth show us the true meaning of what we are studying. We must keep in mind we get milk first and then meat and it can be years between.
I also believe in one God and Father of all, who is the God and Father of Jesus, the Son of God, the Messiah/Christ.
John 20:17 Romans 15:6 2 Corinthians 1:3 2 Corinthians 11:31 Ephesians 1:3 Ephesians 1:17 Ephesians 5:20 Colossians 1:3 1 Peter 1:3 1 Corinthians 8:6.
God bless,
RLW
I agree with Gigi, We are to gather from those who are gifted to teach, preach, and proclaim.
Jesus said; He is truth!
He also said, "My sheep hear my voice!
When truth is proclaimed it's Christ spirit in us that discerns it.
In 1 Corinthians 3:5-7 Paul illustrates this concept of teaching.
We are to do as the Bereans in Acts 17:11 and test the scriptures to see if these things be true.
I believe we should approach the scripture as babes in Christ and not just examine others doctrine but also constantly examining our own, testing scripture with scripture and applying proper hermeneutics.
We take what we have learned from others and see if it holds up over time as we grow.
God bless.
I can see where you are coming from in this post. We do need to test what we have learned to be sure that we are believing correctly according to the bible.
However, I do not agree that we are to set aside all that we have been taught or learned in order to gain truth from the Word.
The Israelites were instructed to teach their children the Word of God in Deuteronomy. And Paul certainly tells Timothy, Titus, and others to teach sound doctrine to those under their care. As parents we are responsible for teaching our children from infancy about God and what the Scriptures say, as the mother and grandmother of Timothy did. As pastors we are to teach those who attend our services sound doctrine from God's Word. As believers, we are to study the Scriptures for ourselves to grow up in doctrinal purity and correct understanding, All of these ways of intaking spiritual knowledge are the work of the Holy Spirit. We should have a teachable spirit not only to learn from Scriptures ourselves, but from those who God has placed over us as teachers. I think it is somewhat dangerous to believers to instruct them to abandon what they have been taught by godly believers when they attempt to study the Bible independently. I am not saying that we should take everything taught to us from others as absolute truth, but, when we are of an age to think critically and examine between the Scriptures and what we already know we are to prayerfully sift through our beliefs in light of the Scriptures by the working of the Holy Spirit in us.
I agree with what you are saying, I know I have, and you have said here before, we grow daily, and our understandings have changed over the years. The Holy Spirit opens our eyes to truth as we can bear it or willing to use it. What I am saying is when we study, we are in search of truth whether it agrees with what we have been taught or not.
But when we study in prayer without what we have been taught in our mind and if what we are shown by the Spirit is what we have been taught, great. What if it is not? Are we willing to accept the truth? What will it cost? Are we willing to be persecuted by church members, friends', family members if we accept the truth and speak it? We are to worship God, in spirit and in truth, John 4:23-24.
If we are not willing to embrace the truth, regardless of what it will cost us, it will never be shown to us. I know we do not agree on one doctrine, but are we willing to honestly study any doctrine for the truth? All I say is in love and caring. I hope you take this in love and are not offended.
God bless,
RLW
Of I am not offended by your posts.
There is much we agree on. But the things we disagree on we must continue to study, as you say, since we both can't be right, but we both can be wrong on the same topic.
Thank you,
God bless,
RLW
This was such a beautiful reply. So thoughtful and so convicted in your stance. I thank you so much for this. I felt everything you wrote, within my heart. I long for this type of bond with our Father and my redeemer King Christ Jesus.
God bless every single one of you who has taken the time and effort to provide me with your valuable insights and prayers.
May God continue to bless all of you!
Manyfires (Crisann)
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