First I have to make a confession of all the books of the entire bible I am the weakest on the book of Revelation.
My question is having this verse in revelation:
Revelation 3:5 (KJV) 5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
Doesn't that cause a real issue for the "once saved always saved" advocates?
Those who overcome "overcomes" by the blood of Christ and is "overcoming" by the blood of Christ.
Paul says in Philippians 1:6
"Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you WILL PERFORM IT UNTIL THE DAY OF JESUS CHRIST:
Therefore, the promise is "the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. Rec. 3:5.
If I can just add my 2-cents on this great verse ( Philippians 1:6) you brought up.
Notice how it says "being confident."
It's actually a Perfect Tense. It should read, "having become confident." Why? Because they've been in fellowship with the gospel from the first day until now.
They've been in fellowship with the gospel, so confidently Paul can say about this very thing that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform, and the Greek word means literally complete it, until the day of Jesus Christ:
That's quite a promise. But he didn't say that for all people. He says because you have been in the word from the first day until now, I can tell you that God's promise to you is that whatever work He began in you, He's going to complete it until Christ comes.
There's a reason why they stayed in the word. He didn't say for all people who profess to be Christians because not all professing Christians are saved, especially in our religious system in our country.
So the confidence comes because they've been in the word since the first day they were saved. God began a work in them. He gave them His Spirit, and by His Spirit, they were continuously being drawn to His word.
This is God's doing. It is His work in their lives. He began this work, and He sees it to its completion.
"1:6 Being confident of this. Paul's confidence in the Philippians is based not only on God's good work in their lives and their church, but also on their passion and sacrifice for the cause of Christ (vv. 5, 7; 4:15-18). Because they have already proven to be faithful in supporting and partnering in the work of ministry, Paul was certain that God would continue to work in and through them. God is always faithful to ensure that his work will be effective in the lives of those who remain loyal to and dependent on him. However, his faithfulness can do nothing for those who resist his grace (i.e., unearned favor, love, help and spiritual enablement) and refuse his gift of salvation (see 2:13, note; 2Ti 2:13, note).
Phil 2:13 God who works in you. God works by his Spirit within the lives of Christ's followers to produce in them both the desire and the power to do what is good and right and to fulfill his purposes for their lives (see article on Faith and Grace). However, God's work is not forced, and his grace (i.e., his undeserved favor, love and spiritual help) can be resisted. That is to say, we can reject God's help and guidance and go our own sinful and destructive way if we so choose. God's work within us (1:6; 1Th 5:24; 2Ti 4:18; Tit 3:5-7) is always dependent on our FAITHFULNESS and cooperation (vv. 12, 14-16).
Phil 14 Do all things without murmurings and disputings:
Phil 15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;
Phil 16 Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain."
That is to say, we can reject God's help and guidance and go our own sinful and destructive way if we so choose. God's work within us (1:6; 1Th 5:24; 2Ti 4:18; Tit 3:5-7) IS ALWAYS DEPENDENT ON OUR ON OUR FAITHFULNESS AND COOPERATION (vv. 12, 14-16).
3:5 Blot out his name. This appears to be the "book" first mentioned in Ex 32:32-33. It describes a sort of registry of citizenship in God's kingdom. This verse clearly teaches of the very real possibility of members of God's kingdom having their names removed from the book of life. This can happen to any person who experiences salvation and a personal relationship with Christ, but later refuses to remain faithful to him and allow his power to help them overcome the evil around them and the sinful nature within them (see 2:7, note; see article on Individual Apostasy). To have one's name blotted out of the book of life is to give up eternal life with God (2:7, 10-11) and to be condemned to the lake of fire in the end (20:15). This is a direct warning from the Holy Spirit to Christ's churches (v. 6; 13:8; 17:8; 20:12; 21:27; cf. Ex 32:32).
Thank you Spencer... I read this article from Donahue he puts forth a compelling argument. I copied and pasted it as is unchanged.
"ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED" VERSUS REVELATION 3:5
by PATRICK DONAHUE
Revelation 3:5 reads "He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels."How could the doctrine of "once saved always saved" be true if the above verse is true? The same book shows that a person's name is not written into the "Book Of Life" unless he is saved:
20:15 whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire
21:27 no one will "enter into it (heaven) any thing that defileth, neither worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life."
Revelation 3:5 then necessarily implies that if a saved person does not overcome (temptation, persecution, etc.), if he does not remain faithful, then his name will be erased from the book of life, meaning he will no longer be in a saved relationship with God.
Other Bible passages teach the same thing about the book of life. When the Israelites made the golden calf while Moses was on the mount receiving the 10 commandments, God said in Exodus 32:33: Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.
Only the names of the saved are in the "book of life" to start with. And if it is possible to get your name blotted / taken out of the book of life, then it is clear that it is possible for a saved person to lose his salvation.The doctrine that a Christian cannot "fall from grace" is just plain untrue.
:) me too Jim , some parts of Revelation are crystal clear to me and others....I'm at a total loss with , somewhere in between there is lots of things that I think I understand but I'm not 100 percent sure about . We shall understand everything one day :) .
Revelation is all about the revealing of Jesus Christ, his creation become the exactness of himself, Christ. All accomplished by the WORKS of the cross of Christ.
It's hidden in symbols; as you study Mosses and the Prophets, those symbols are explained; yet, often they are explained by another symbol, keep studying, Christ will reveal himself to you, you will come to understand you died with Christ on his cross, YOU and Christ arose TOGETHER, a marriage, you BECAME ONE.
The entire word of God is about the kingdom of God, a kingdom of priest and gods, the IMAGE of their high priest, Jesus Christ, they are going to judge the nations with Christ.
Joshua 22:22 The LORD GOD of gods, the LORD GOD of gods ......
Exodus 7:1 And the LORD said unto Mosses, see I HAVE MADE THEE (Mosses) a god to Pharaoh ....
God made Mosses a god to JUDGE Pharaoh...... this is going to happen again ..... this time no Canaanites will be left in the land
Zachariah 14:21 Yea, every POT (we are the pot; the body, Christ the potter) in Jerusalem and in Judah SHALL BE HOLINESS unto the Lord of host: and all they ( Revelation 19:9) that sacrifice shall come and take of them (the pots of Christ), and SEETH THEREIN (be judged) in that day there shall be NO MORE CANAANITE.
Zachariah 12:8 ... and the house of David shall be as God, and the angel of the Lord before them ........
Psalms 126:6 He that goeth forth and weepeth, bearing precious SEED, shall doubtless COME AGAIN with rejoicing, bringing his sheaves with him.
Revelation 21:26 And they (the pots of God, the body of Christ) shall bring the glory and the honour OF THE NATIONS into it.
The saints are going to Judge the earth, ALL JUDGEMENT was given to CHrist; you cannot be a judge and NOT BELIEVE, you were made ONE with Christ by his resurrection.
I would say no, not at all. Revelation 3:5 says, "He that overcomes." That's a Present Participle. It should read "To the one who is overcoming, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels."
The Old Testament tells us there's more than one book ( Exodus 32:32-33, Daniel 12:1-2, Daniel 12:7-10, Psalm 69:28).
There's the book of life which has listed in it everybody that has received human life. And then there's the book of the Lamb, those who belong to Christ.
In the book of life, if a person rejects Christ, their name is removed from the book of life as if they've never been born. They're gone!
But no one is ever blotted out of the Lamb's book of life.
If you go back into the Old Testament and you study from those references, it will show you that there's more than one book. And the Jews knew that.
It's not that God has books up there. But it's just a human example or an illustration that God knows everything, all the people that have been born, and all the people that belong to Christ.
He say I will not blot out his name out of the book of life. And I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. Jesus said that He would do that.
A person whose name is in the Lamb's book of life will never be blotted out. That's how permanent salvation is!
"O nikon (He who is overcoming/winning or he who is victorious) outos peribaleitai (he will be covered around) en imatiois leukeis (in white garments) ...etc, etc"
"Thank you I will have to investigate this further...
Below is a little of what I found on the subject.
The terms "Book of Life" and "Lamb's Book of Life" are used in Christian theology to refer to a concept found in the Bible. However, it's important to note that there is some variation in how different theologians and denominations interpret and use these terms.
1. **Book of Life:** The "Book of Life" is a term used in several places in the Bible, including the Old and New Testaments. It generally refers to a heavenly record or register in which the names of the righteous, the faithful, or those who belong to God are written. For example, in the Old Testament, Exodus 32:32-33 mentions the Book of Life. In the New Testament, Revelation 20:15 mentions the Book of Life, which is associated with the final judgment. Those whose names are found in the Book of Life are seen as those who will inherit eternal life.
2. **Lamb's Book of Life:** The term "Lamb's Book of Life" specifically appears in the Book of Revelation in the New Testament. It is often associated with the idea that those who belong to Christ, the Lamb of God, have their names written in this book. Revelation 13:8 and Revelation 21:27 are the primary verses where the Lamb's Book of Life is mentioned. Those who have their names in the Lamb's Book of Life are considered to be the redeemed and saved.
In some theological interpretations, these terms are used interchangeably to refer to the same concept, while in others, they are seen as distinct but related concepts. The interpretation of the Book of Life and the Lamb's Book of Life can vary among different Christian denominations and theological traditions.
In summary, both terms refer to the idea of a divine record in which the names of the saved or righteous are written. The specifics of how these books are understood and their significance in salvation can vary depending on theological perspectives."
Possibly the "Book of Life" has to do with God's, election, and predestination of those he has chosen for salvation.
Possibly the "Lamb's Book of Life" is for those outside the realm of election/predestination and have their "chance" at eternal life if they receive Christ hence the Lamb's Book of Life.
My question is having this verse in revelation:
Revelation 3:5 (KJV) 5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
Doesn't that cause a real issue for the "once saved always saved" advocates?
Link
Welcome to the site.
Those who overcome "overcomes" by the blood of Christ and is "overcoming" by the blood of Christ.
Paul says in Philippians 1:6
"Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you WILL PERFORM IT UNTIL THE DAY OF JESUS CHRIST:
Therefore, the promise is "the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. Rec. 3:5.
God bless.
If I can just add my 2-cents on this great verse ( Philippians 1:6) you brought up.
Notice how it says "being confident."
It's actually a Perfect Tense. It should read, "having become confident." Why? Because they've been in fellowship with the gospel from the first day until now.
They've been in fellowship with the gospel, so confidently Paul can say about this very thing that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform, and the Greek word means literally complete it, until the day of Jesus Christ:
That's quite a promise. But he didn't say that for all people. He says because you have been in the word from the first day until now, I can tell you that God's promise to you is that whatever work He began in you, He's going to complete it until Christ comes.
There's a reason why they stayed in the word. He didn't say for all people who profess to be Christians because not all professing Christians are saved, especially in our religious system in our country.
So the confidence comes because they've been in the word since the first day they were saved. God began a work in them. He gave them His Spirit, and by His Spirit, they were continuously being drawn to His word.
This is God's doing. It is His work in their lives. He began this work, and He sees it to its completion.
God bless!!!
God bless you and thanks for all your help.
Phil 2:13 God who works in you. God works by his Spirit within the lives of Christ's followers to produce in them both the desire and the power to do what is good and right and to fulfill his purposes for their lives (see article on Faith and Grace). However, God's work is not forced, and his grace (i.e., his undeserved favor, love and spiritual help) can be resisted. That is to say, we can reject God's help and guidance and go our own sinful and destructive way if we so choose. God's work within us (1:6; 1Th 5:24; 2Ti 4:18; Tit 3:5-7) is always dependent on our FAITHFULNESS and cooperation (vv. 12, 14-16).
Phil 14 Do all things without murmurings and disputings:
Phil 15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;
Phil 16 Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain."
That is to say, we can reject God's help and guidance and go our own sinful and destructive way if we so choose. God's work within us (1:6; 1Th 5:24; 2Ti 4:18; Tit 3:5-7) IS ALWAYS DEPENDENT ON OUR ON OUR FAITHFULNESS AND COOPERATION (vv. 12, 14-16).
Also see article on individual apostasy
Your explanation is reasonable...
This is from the Fire Bible by Donald C. Stamps
3:5 Blot out his name. This appears to be the "book" first mentioned in Ex 32:32-33. It describes a sort of registry of citizenship in God's kingdom. This verse clearly teaches of the very real possibility of members of God's kingdom having their names removed from the book of life. This can happen to any person who experiences salvation and a personal relationship with Christ, but later refuses to remain faithful to him and allow his power to help them overcome the evil around them and the sinful nature within them (see 2:7, note; see article on Individual Apostasy). To have one's name blotted out of the book of life is to give up eternal life with God (2:7, 10-11) and to be condemned to the lake of fire in the end (20:15). This is a direct warning from the Holy Spirit to Christ's churches (v. 6; 13:8; 17:8; 20:12; 21:27; cf. Ex 32:32).
Link. for the article on Individual Apostasy.
"ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED" VERSUS REVELATION 3:5
by PATRICK DONAHUE
Revelation 3:5 reads "He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels."How could the doctrine of "once saved always saved" be true if the above verse is true? The same book shows that a person's name is not written into the "Book Of Life" unless he is saved:
20:15 whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire
21:27 no one will "enter into it (heaven) any thing that defileth, neither worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life."
Revelation 3:5 then necessarily implies that if a saved person does not overcome (temptation, persecution, etc.), if he does not remain faithful, then his name will be erased from the book of life, meaning he will no longer be in a saved relationship with God.
Other Bible passages teach the same thing about the book of life. When the Israelites made the golden calf while Moses was on the mount receiving the 10 commandments, God said in Exodus 32:33: Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.
Only the names of the saved are in the "book of life" to start with. And if it is possible to get your name blotted / taken out of the book of life, then it is clear that it is possible for a saved person to lose his salvation.The doctrine that a Christian cannot "fall from grace" is just plain untrue.
Revelation is all about the revealing of Jesus Christ, his creation become the exactness of himself, Christ. All accomplished by the WORKS of the cross of Christ.
It's hidden in symbols; as you study Mosses and the Prophets, those symbols are explained; yet, often they are explained by another symbol, keep studying, Christ will reveal himself to you, you will come to understand you died with Christ on his cross, YOU and Christ arose TOGETHER, a marriage, you BECAME ONE.
The entire word of God is about the kingdom of God, a kingdom of priest and gods, the IMAGE of their high priest, Jesus Christ, they are going to judge the nations with Christ.
Joshua 22:22 The LORD GOD of gods, the LORD GOD of gods ......
Exodus 7:1 And the LORD said unto Mosses, see I HAVE MADE THEE (Mosses) a god to Pharaoh ....
God made Mosses a god to JUDGE Pharaoh...... this is going to happen again ..... this time no Canaanites will be left in the land
Zachariah 14:21 Yea, every POT (we are the pot; the body, Christ the potter) in Jerusalem and in Judah SHALL BE HOLINESS unto the Lord of host: and all they ( Revelation 19:9) that sacrifice shall come and take of them (the pots of Christ), and SEETH THEREIN (be judged) in that day there shall be NO MORE CANAANITE.
Zachariah 12:8 ... and the house of David shall be as God, and the angel of the Lord before them ........
Psalms 126:6 He that goeth forth and weepeth, bearing precious SEED, shall doubtless COME AGAIN with rejoicing, bringing his sheaves with him.
Revelation 21:26 And they (the pots of God, the body of Christ) shall bring the glory and the honour OF THE NATIONS into it.
The saints are going to Judge the earth, ALL JUDGEMENT was given to CHrist; you cannot be a judge and NOT BELIEVE, you were made ONE with Christ by his resurrection.
God Bless YOU!
I would say no, not at all. Revelation 3:5 says, "He that overcomes." That's a Present Participle. It should read "To the one who is overcoming, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels."
The Old Testament tells us there's more than one book ( Exodus 32:32-33, Daniel 12:1-2, Daniel 12:7-10, Psalm 69:28).
There's the book of life which has listed in it everybody that has received human life. And then there's the book of the Lamb, those who belong to Christ.
In the book of life, if a person rejects Christ, their name is removed from the book of life as if they've never been born. They're gone!
But no one is ever blotted out of the Lamb's book of life.
If you go back into the Old Testament and you study from those references, it will show you that there's more than one book. And the Jews knew that.
It's not that God has books up there. But it's just a human example or an illustration that God knows everything, all the people that have been born, and all the people that belong to Christ.
He say I will not blot out his name out of the book of life. And I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. Jesus said that He would do that.
A person whose name is in the Lamb's book of life will never be blotted out. That's how permanent salvation is!
God Bless!!!
Rev 3:5, from the greek text:
"O nikon (He who is overcoming/winning or he who is victorious) outos peribaleitai (he will be covered around) en imatiois leukeis (in white garments) ...etc, etc"
I agree. He who is overcoming, not he who will. I am overcoming and will overcome because I have Christ in me, the one who overcame!
As long as I have Christ in me, I overcome, and He has promised to never leave me.
Thanks again!
Below is a little of what I found on the subject.
The terms "Book of Life" and "Lamb's Book of Life" are used in Christian theology to refer to a concept found in the Bible. However, it's important to note that there is some variation in how different theologians and denominations interpret and use these terms.
1. **Book of Life:** The "Book of Life" is a term used in several places in the Bible, including the Old and New Testaments. It generally refers to a heavenly record or register in which the names of the righteous, the faithful, or those who belong to God are written. For example, in the Old Testament, Exodus 32:32-33 mentions the Book of Life. In the New Testament, Revelation 20:15 mentions the Book of Life, which is associated with the final judgment. Those whose names are found in the Book of Life are seen as those who will inherit eternal life.
2. **Lamb's Book of Life:** The term "Lamb's Book of Life" specifically appears in the Book of Revelation in the New Testament. It is often associated with the idea that those who belong to Christ, the Lamb of God, have their names written in this book. Revelation 13:8 and Revelation 21:27 are the primary verses where the Lamb's Book of Life is mentioned. Those who have their names in the Lamb's Book of Life are considered to be the redeemed and saved.
In some theological interpretations, these terms are used interchangeably to refer to the same concept, while in others, they are seen as distinct but related concepts. The interpretation of the Book of Life and the Lamb's Book of Life can vary among different Christian denominations and theological traditions.
In summary, both terms refer to the idea of a divine record in which the names of the saved or righteous are written. The specifics of how these books are understood and their significance in salvation can vary depending on theological perspectives."
Possibly the "Lamb's Book of Life" is for those outside the realm of election/predestination and have their "chance" at eternal life if they receive Christ hence the Lamb's Book of Life.
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