I wonder if the majority of Western women who claim to be Christian do not actually submit to their Christian husbands. This is no small thing to Christ!
1 Peter 3:1 (KJV) 1 Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;
1 Peter 3:5-6 (KJV) 5 For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands: 6 Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement.
Colossians 3:18 (KJV) 18 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord.
Ephesians 5:22-24 (KJV) 22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. 24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
Ep 5:23 The reason for the wife's submission is that her husband is her head. He occupies the same relation to her that Christ occupies to the church. Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body. (The word Savior here can have the meaning of Preserver, as it has in 1Ti 4:10, JND). So the husband is head of the wife, and he is her preserver as well. As head he loves, leads, and guides; as preserver he provides, protects, and cares for her.
We all know there is great revulsion against this teaching in our day. People accuse Paul of being a bigoted bachelor, a male chauvinist, a woman-hater. Or they say his views reflect the social customs of his day but are no longer applicable today. Such statements are, of course, a frontal attack on the inspiration of the Scriptures. These are not merely Paul's words; they are the words of God. To refuse them is to refuse Him and invite difficulty and disaster.
[[[When we abide in the Christian doctrine, we give PROOF of the REALITY of our faith.]]] So it makes me really question the salvation of these Western Christian women who don't submit to their husbands, and the majority honestly probably don't."
I can't tell you the enormous amounts of pushback I get from both "Christian" men and women on Ephesians 5 and even more pushback on 1 Corinthians 11 "head coverings during corporate worship whenever I bring it up.
Usually, the go-to scripture for these feminist Christians is Galatians 3:28.
Paul urges all those claiming to be spiritually saved to "examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; TEST yourselves."
2 Corinthians 13:5 (KJV) Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
>The word of God cuts both ways, a two edged sword.
>How many husbands love their wives as CHRIST loves the church ..... probably NONE.
>The word says you are the WIFE of Christ, so these scripture of a wife submitting to her HUSBAND apply as much to you as to any earthly wife.
What you wrote in your original post "you are the WIFE of Christ" was bordering on blasphemy. In NO WAY shape or form is the Christian HUSBAND the WIFE of CHRIST in any regard. While this passage Ephesians 5:22-24 draws parallels between the relationship of Christ and the Church and the relationship between a husband and wife, it at no time places the husband on equal footing with the wife. As if the husband being in the "church" makes him the wife of Christ because the Church is the wife of Christ. That mishandling of scripture could be used to justify same-sex marriages and homosexual relations. It is one of the grossest mishandling of scripture I've encountered.
Several scriptures 1 Peter 3:1, 1 Peter 3:5-6, Col 3:18, Eph 5:22-24 and the common thread running through the entire bible support Christian women to submit to their Christian husbands.
I usually get an enormous amount of pushback on this subject by both Christian men and women. If they can not even do this how will they do the weightier things of scripture? It is the sad state we find Christendom in today.
1 Peter 4:17 (KJV) 17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
Judgement starts in the house of God and so many of our churches are out of order that it is no wonder why!
Are you saying that ' so many of our churches are out of order ' because wives refuse to submit to their husbands ? That's not the case in my congregation . Wives are expected to and as far as I know do . In the last ten years in my congregation we have disfellowshiped a married man for sex offenses against children , another married man infected his wife with HIV because he was sleeping with men , another man stabbed himself and said he was attacked in order to claim compensation , and another married man had been having an extramarital affair behind his wife's back for ten years . These men were all disfellowshiped by our congregation . Their wives are still with us . Before long we won't have any men left ! Their obedient wives are well rid of them ! God sees all , you and I do not . He knows everything that goes on everywhere , we barely know what goes on in our own house . Be aware that God hears your accusations and judgements and you will have to give account of every word that comes out of your mouth .
From what you have described the churches have always had a mingled condition. Most of the books in the New Testament discuss and warn about this mingled condition. 2 Peter, 1, 2, 3, John, even Jude which is known really as the "acts of the apostates" Galatians the Jewdisers, Colossians heresy with Gnostics. The apostles were not even dead and buried and they were dealing with all sorts of mingled conditions within the church. Some of his honest errors and some of it heresy.
So here we are in the present 2023, we have our current state of affairs, with new modern bible perversions, churches with female pastors/bishops, homosexual pastors, churches consecrating same-sex marriages, feminist-influenced congregations that no longer teach Ephesians 5 wives submitting toward their husband, 1 Corinthians 11 head coverings for women during corporate worship, and the further watering down of the Word of God to please the masses by the clergy.... 2 Timothy 4:3 (KJV) For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
Many churches have fallen into a state of apostasy... We are in a very sad state of affairs in today's Christendom.
So yes in my humble opinion, the churches today are out of order and that is why judgment starts in the house of God.
1 Peter 4:17 (KJV) 17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
There's a reason for all of this that you have very accurately articulated,
it's the Harlot, the false church, present day Christianity, worldwide, Rev 17:5 the apostasy spoken of in Rev 1, 2 & 3 which ripen & matured with the Roman Catholic's, then as the reformation started tearing down the darkness of popery, they, the protestant did not perfect it, but adulterated themselves with the kings of the earth, the Catholic's the mother, the protestant & all other sects but one, are the Harlots describe here, & then in time, that one also went into apostasy Rev 17:4 all forms of godliness without the Power, some more refine and subtlety dress then others, making a big show of Christian character, works & airy knowledge, but its all from the letter, learnt from the teaching & doctrine of men, in the art of science, as one would any other profession. They practice what the Apostles wrote of, who were lead by the Spirit to do it, but they don't do what the Apostles did in following the dictates of the Spirit which lead the Apostles to do it, Rom 8:14, but follows the learning from the letter & duplicate what they learn & believe they're being lead by the Spirit. NOT !
The Substance is not known here, then they are other that are outright perverted as it is this day.
Yet, God in His longsuffering love has a people within her, whom in Rev 18: calls out "come out of her My people, less you partake of her sins & plagues.
Friends, these are weighty & eternal matters here, let us continue to consider what spiritual state we're truly in, personally & worldwide.
Who will heed His Call, separated themselves from these Harlot's & Abominations of the earth?
The trumpet is sounding, Awake, Awake My Beloved ones, come out of her!
Try not to let it drag you down , we can only be responsible for ourselves and it's hard enough keeping our own feet on the straight and narrow . 1st Kings Ch 19 V 9-18 .
It doesn't drag me down, but does concern me when unbelievers stumble into these churches which have become so carnal that the unbeliever doesn't see much difference between the Christian and regular unbelievers. The bible the very WORDS OF GOD says this and that and they witness it being IGNORED or explained away since it was inconvenient to follow.
I am just a voice crying out in the wilderness... A conscience if you will. Letting people know to prepare for judgment. For it will start in the house of God. A lot of people in the Church "think they are saved." So great is Satan's power of deception that the tares truly suppose themselves to be Children of the kingdom!
Paul urges all those claiming to be spiritually saved to "examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves"
2 Corinthians 13:5 (KJV) 5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
The interpretation of theological and spiritual matters can vary among individuals and religious denominations. The passage you mentioned from 1 Timothy 6:16 is indeed a biblical verse, and different people may interpret it differently based on their religious beliefs and theological understanding.
In the context of the verse, it is stated that God alone possesses eternal or immortal life. This can be seen as a reminder of God's unique and divine nature. The idea that believers are spiritually saved and receive eternal life through their faith in Christ is a common Christian belief.
The concept of being "physically saved" or "spiritually saved" can be a matter of theological interpretation. Some Christians may emphasize the spiritual aspect of salvation, emphasizing the forgiveness of sins and the promise of eternal life through faith in Jesus Christ, while others may also consider the physical well-being and safety of believers.
The notion of believers being spiritually "married" or united with Christ is also a theological concept found in Christian traditions. It signifies a close and personal relationship between believers and Jesus, often described metaphorically as a marriage. This spiritual union is believed to bring about transformation and a new way of living for the believer, yet the explanation doesn't absolve you from your original blasphemous post. There you attempted to use the metaphoric marriage union with Christ in an attempt to undermine Ephesians 5:22-25 which addresses the ROLES and RESPONSIBIlITIES of husbands and wives within marriage union, using the metaphor of Christ and the Church to illustrate these roles, but this metaphor doesn't change the SPECIFIC COMMANDS for the husband and wife within the marital relationships. It would render Ehesisans 5:22-25 to no effect.
Jordyn wrote:
>The word says you are the WIFE of Christ, so these scripture of a wife submitting to her HUSBAND apply as much to you as to any earthly wife.
Even Jesus Christ the son of God HIMSELF had to put up with this mingled condition even within his own band of disciples!
Judas Iscariot the thief and betrayer of Jesus Christ.
1 John 2:19 (KJV) 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
1Jn 2:19 These false teachers were professing Christians who once associated with the apostles. However, in heart they were not really one with true believers, and they showed this by going out from the fellowship. If they had been of us, they would have continued with us. Here we learn that true faith always has the quality of permanence. If a man has really been born again, he will go on for the Lord. It does not mean that we are saved by enduring to the end, but rather that those who endure to the end are really saved. The false teachers went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.
The church IS NOT a building made of brick and mortar,where earthy husbands and wives go, those churches are were the DEAD worship the works of their hands.
Revelation 21:22 And I saw no CHURCH therein, because the LORD God Almighty and the LAMB are the CHURCH ......
The DEAD attend church 2 hours a week, the LIVING are IN CHURCH 24/7.
The carnal mind is ENMITY against GOD.
God BLESS YOU, as the Spirit of truth destroys your carnal mind
You seem to have an unrepentant nature. That doesn't address what you wrote. Instead of admitting it and asking for forgiveness you press on. In NO WAY shape or form is the Christian HUSBAND the WIFE of CHRIST in any regard.
>The word of God cuts both ways, a two edged sword.
>How many husbands love their wives as CHRIST loves the church ..... probably NONE.
>The word says you are the WIFE of Christ, so these scripture of a wife submitting to her HUSBAND apply as much to you as to any earthly wife.
Paul urges all those claiming to be spiritually saved to "examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves"
2 Corinthians 13:5 (KJV) 5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
I am amazed how often Gal 28 is taken out of context to defend the position that wives' are not required to submit to their husbands even in the face of overwhelming clear scripture to the contrary. Let's just ignore 1 Peter 3:1, 1 Peter 3:5-6, Col 3:18, Eph 5:22-24.
Galatians 3:26-29 (KJV) 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
The law made distinctions between these classes. For instance, the distinction between Jew and Gentile is insisted on in Dt 7:6; Dt 14:1, 2. In his morning prayer, a Jewish man thanked God that He had not made him a Gentile, a slave, or a woman. In Christ Jesus these differences disappear, that is, as far as acceptance with God is concerned. A Jew is not preferred over a Gentile, a free man is not more favored than a slave, nor is a man more privileged than a woman. All are on the same level because they are in Christ Jesus.
GALATIONS 28 MUST NOT be pressed into meaning something it does not say. As far as everyday life is concerned (not to mention public ministry in the church), God does recognize the distinction between male and female. The NT contains instructions addressed to each; it also speaks separately to slaves and masters. But in obtaining blessing from God, these things do not matter. The great thing is to be in Christ Jesus. (This refers to our heavenly position, not to our earthly condition.) Before God the believing Jew is not a bit superior to the converted pagan! Govett says: "All the distinctions which the law made are swallowed up in the common grave which God has provided." Therefore, how foolish it is for Christians to seek further holiness by setting up differences which Christ has abolished.
God loves men and women equally he just has different roles for them. 1 Corinthians 11:7 (KJV) 7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.
God has his divine order of things... God > man > woman...
As there is an order/hierarchy in a state, as there is an order/hierarchy in the church, similarly there is an hierarchy in a house. The President/Prime Minister of a country is not superior to any other citizen of that country, there are all equal before the Law. But their jobs are different. The Pastor of a church is not loved more by Jesus than the rest, he is not better from any other person in the congregation But his job is different from the rest.
>How many husbands love their wives as CHRIST loves the church ..... probably NONE.
While it's true that the ideal of a husband loving his wife as Christ loves the Church is a high standard, it's essential to remember that the Bible sets this as an aspirational goal. In Ephesians, the passage emphasizes the sacrificial love of Christ for the Church as a model for husbands to follow. While it may be challenging for any human to love perfectly, this teaching serves as a reminder of the selfless and sacrificial nature of love within a Christian marriage.
Many husbands strive to embody these qualities, even though they may fall short at times. It's important to recognize that love in a marriage is a lifelong journey of growth and learning. While none of us can love as perfectly as Christ, the goal is to continually work towards deepening our love and commitment to our spouses, inspired by the example set by Christ's love for the Church.
I want to respond in extreme love. First and foremost please try to understand that Christian men and women have been influenced by our POST FEMINIST society more than they might even realize. Many men now have female supervisors at work so it is hard for them to grapple with the wife being commanded to submit to her husband.
> Ephesians 5:25 The word of God cuts both ways, a two edged sword.
You're mishandling scripture here. God would never oppose or contradict himself a house divided could not stand.
>Those of us who live in glass houses shouldn't cast stones.
No one is casting stones here.
>The word says you are the WIFE of Christ, so these scripture of a wife submitting to her HUSBAND apply as much to you as to >any earthly wife.
You are mishandling scripture, here again, see my below response.
Ephesians 5:22-24:
The passage goes on to discuss the husband's role in the marriage relationship, emphasizing love, sacrifice, and mutual respect. It's often interpreted as a call for wives to submit to their husbands, but it's crucial to recognize that the emphasis is on mutual respect and sacrificial love within the context of a Christian marriage.
While some Christians may use this passage to draw parallels between the relationship of Christ and the Church and the relationship between a husband and wife, it's important to remember that these passages primarily address the roles and responsibilities within a Christian marriage. They are NOT explicitly stating that an individual is the "wife of Christ" in the same sense as a human marriage.
You are absolutely right. There are obligations to both sides. But if one of them don't keep those obligations, the other side is not exluded from keeping them. Everybody will be judged for his/her own works, not for the others'. GBU
1.>The word of God cuts both ways, a two edged sword.
2.>How many husbands love their wives as CHRIST loves the church ..... probably NONE.
3.>The word says you are the WIFE of Christ, so these scripture of a wife submitting to her
4.>HUSBAND apply as much to you as to any earthly wife.
" 2 Peter 3:16 (KJV) 16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
All of Christendom is part of Christ's CHURCH, it is no mere building. All saints are part of his church. The church is the wife of Christ but does not lower the husband's position to that of wife. God's divine order is revealed in 1 Corinthians 11:3 (KJV) 3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
Having the husband being in the corpus of the church does NOT make him the WIFE of Christ as you stated in 3. & 4. above and then the order for wifely submission would then apply to him as you also stated. This is utter blasphemy!
You have in your past wrested with scripture to make it say what you wanted in the past and it has affected your exegesis. You have mingled the Word & Self in a dangerous way for yourself.... "which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction."
Repent before it is too late and you go down the road of apostacy!
> Isaiah 62:5 For as a young man marrieth a virgin, so shall thy thy sons (both men and women) >MARRY THEE
Isaiah 62:5 (KJV) For as a young man marrieth a virgin, so shall thy sons marry thee: and as the bridegroom rejoiceth over the bride, so shall thy God rejoice over thee.
Isaiah 62:5 is indeed a poetic and metaphorical passage that compares the relationship between God and the people of Israel to that of a young man marrying a virgin and a bridegroom rejoicing over the bride. It emphasizes the joy and love that God has for His people. This passage is often cited to illustrate the intimate and loving nature of the relationship between God and His people.
However, it's important to note that this passage, like many in the Bible, is metaphorical and symbolic in nature. It uses the imagery of a marital relationship to convey the idea of God's deep love and care for His people. It is not meant to be taken as a direct instruction for individuals to view themselves as the "wife of Christ" in the same way that human marriages are understood.
> Rev 21:9 .... I will show you the bride (both men and women), the Lamb's WIFE .......
Revelation 21:9 uses metaphorical language, likening believers to Christ's bride to convey a close spiritual relationship, not a literal marriage. Not to be used in support of Ephesians
>Repent means to change ones BELIEFS.
One may ask for forgiveness from sin and obtain it, but that doesn't mean they truly repented from that sin. TRUE repentance is like a burning house you don't go back to it!
Please don't insinuate I need to "repent" as I am not the one who wrote blasphemous statements such as the one below in your original post below.
Jorydn wrote:
>The word of God cuts both ways, a two edged sword.
>How many husbands love their wives as CHRIST loves the church ..... probably NONE.
>The word says you are the WIFE of Christ, so these scripture of a wife submitting to her >HUSBAND apply as much to you as to any earthly wife.
>The word of God cuts both ways, a two edged sword.
>How many husbands love their wives as CHRIST loves the church ..... probably NONE.
>The word says you are the WIFE of Christ, so these scripture of a wife submitting to her
>HUSBAND apply as much to you as to any earthly wife.
Your original meaning and intent were clear. You obviously meant that by presenting Christian women with the need to submit, then the "husband" is in the corporate body hence he is metaphorically described as the bride and the wife now places him in the position to submit as does the wife in the marriage relationship. That is against the divine order found in 1 Corinthians 11:3 and contrary to what Ephesians 5 is even stating. What you were attempting to do was blasphemous!
Even though the corporate body of believers, is metaphorically described as the "bride" or "wife" of Christ to symbolize our deep spiritual union and devotion to Him, this metaphor DOES NOT extend or CONTRADICT the commands regarding marital roles. The submission of wives to husbands and the love of husbands for their wives, as described in Ephesians 5, are SPECIFIC instructions for how husbands and wives should relate to each other within the marriage covenant.
Our spiritual relationship with Christ is indeed a profound and personal one, characterized by faith, love, and devotion, but it doesn't prescribe the same roles and dynamics as those within a marital relationship. Therefore, while we are spiritually connected to Christ as His followers, the commands related to marital roles are distinct and apply within the context of marriage, as outlined in Ephesians 5:22-25.
It's essential to interpret and apply biblical principles in their intended context. Ephesians 5:22-25 addresses the ROLES and RESPONSIBIlITIES of husbands and wives within marriage, using the metaphor of Christ and the Church to illustrate these roles, but this metaphor doesn't change the specific commands for marital relationships.
This was in regard to your original blasphemous post!
>The word of God cuts both ways, a two edged sword.
>How many husbands love their wives as CHRIST loves the church ..... probably NONE.
>The word says you are the WIFE of Christ, so these scripture of a wife submitting to her HUSBAND apply as much to you as to any earthly wife.
In NO WAY shape or form is the Christian HUSBAND the WIFE of CHRIST in any regard or in any kind of sense or parallel.
">The word says you are the WIFE of Christ, so these scripture of a wife submitting to her HUSBAND apply as much to you as to any earthly wife." Is utter blasphemy! A first-year theological student could see that.
1 Peter 3:1 (KJV) 1 Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;
1 Peter 3:5-6 (KJV) 5 For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands: 6 Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement.
Colossians 3:18 (KJV) 18 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord.
Ephesians 5:22-24 (KJV) 22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. 24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
Ep 5:23 The reason for the wife's submission is that her husband is her head. He occupies the same relation to her that Christ occupies to the church. Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body. (The word Savior here can have the meaning of Preserver, as it has in 1Ti 4:10, JND). So the husband is head of the wife, and he is her preserver as well. As head he loves, leads, and guides; as preserver he provides, protects, and cares for her.
We all know there is great revulsion against this teaching in our day. People accuse Paul of being a bigoted bachelor, a male chauvinist, a woman-hater. Or they say his views reflect the social customs of his day but are no longer applicable today. Such statements are, of course, a frontal attack on the inspiration of the Scriptures. These are not merely Paul's words; they are the words of God. To refuse them is to refuse Him and invite difficulty and disaster.
I can't tell you the enormous amounts of pushback I get from both "Christian" men and women on Ephesians 5 and even more pushback on 1 Corinthians 11 "head coverings during corporate worship whenever I bring it up.
Usually, the go-to scripture for these feminist Christians is Galatians 3:28.
Paul urges all those claiming to be spiritually saved to "examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; TEST yourselves."
2 Corinthians 13:5 (KJV) Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
>The word of God cuts both ways, a two edged sword.
>How many husbands love their wives as CHRIST loves the church ..... probably NONE.
>The word says you are the WIFE of Christ, so these scripture of a wife submitting to her HUSBAND apply as much to you as to any earthly wife.
What you wrote in your original post "you are the WIFE of Christ" was bordering on blasphemy. In NO WAY shape or form is the Christian HUSBAND the WIFE of CHRIST in any regard. While this passage Ephesians 5:22-24 draws parallels between the relationship of Christ and the Church and the relationship between a husband and wife, it at no time places the husband on equal footing with the wife. As if the husband being in the "church" makes him the wife of Christ because the Church is the wife of Christ. That mishandling of scripture could be used to justify same-sex marriages and homosexual relations. It is one of the grossest mishandling of scripture I've encountered.
Several scriptures 1 Peter 3:1, 1 Peter 3:5-6, Col 3:18, Eph 5:22-24 and the common thread running through the entire bible support Christian women to submit to their Christian husbands.
I usually get an enormous amount of pushback on this subject by both Christian men and women. If they can not even do this how will they do the weightier things of scripture? It is the sad state we find Christendom in today.
1 Peter 4:17 (KJV) 17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
Judgement starts in the house of God and so many of our churches are out of order that it is no wonder why!
So here we are in the present 2023, we have our current state of affairs, with new modern bible perversions, churches with female pastors/bishops, homosexual pastors, churches consecrating same-sex marriages, feminist-influenced congregations that no longer teach Ephesians 5 wives submitting toward their husband, 1 Corinthians 11 head coverings for women during corporate worship, and the further watering down of the Word of God to please the masses by the clergy.... 2 Timothy 4:3 (KJV) For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
Many churches have fallen into a state of apostasy... We are in a very sad state of affairs in today's Christendom.
So yes in my humble opinion, the churches today are out of order and that is why judgment starts in the house of God.
1 Peter 4:17 (KJV) 17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
GBU
There's a reason for all of this that you have very accurately articulated,
it's the Harlot, the false church, present day Christianity, worldwide, Rev 17:5 the apostasy spoken of in Rev 1, 2 & 3 which ripen & matured with the Roman Catholic's, then as the reformation started tearing down the darkness of popery, they, the protestant did not perfect it, but adulterated themselves with the kings of the earth, the Catholic's the mother, the protestant & all other sects but one, are the Harlots describe here, & then in time, that one also went into apostasy Rev 17:4 all forms of godliness without the Power, some more refine and subtlety dress then others, making a big show of Christian character, works & airy knowledge, but its all from the letter, learnt from the teaching & doctrine of men, in the art of science, as one would any other profession. They practice what the Apostles wrote of, who were lead by the Spirit to do it, but they don't do what the Apostles did in following the dictates of the Spirit which lead the Apostles to do it, Rom 8:14, but follows the learning from the letter & duplicate what they learn & believe they're being lead by the Spirit. NOT !
The Substance is not known here, then they are other that are outright perverted as it is this day.
Yet, God in His longsuffering love has a people within her, whom in Rev 18: calls out "come out of her My people, less you partake of her sins & plagues.
Friends, these are weighty & eternal matters here, let us continue to consider what spiritual state we're truly in, personally & worldwide.
Who will heed His Call, separated themselves from these Harlot's & Abominations of the earth?
The trumpet is sounding, Awake, Awake My Beloved ones, come out of her!
in love & truth
I am just a voice crying out in the wilderness... A conscience if you will. Letting people know to prepare for judgment. For it will start in the house of God. A lot of people in the Church "think they are saved." So great is Satan's power of deception that the tares truly suppose themselves to be Children of the kingdom!
Paul urges all those claiming to be spiritually saved to "examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves"
2 Corinthians 13:5 (KJV) 5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
One is not spiritually saved, one is physically save.
Your saved from DEATH, the gift of God is eternal (IMMORTAL) LIFE.
1 Timothy 6:16 Christ ONLY hath IMMORTAL LIFE----your physically married (made ONE) with Christ.
God BLESS YOU!
In the context of the verse, it is stated that God alone possesses eternal or immortal life. This can be seen as a reminder of God's unique and divine nature. The idea that believers are spiritually saved and receive eternal life through their faith in Christ is a common Christian belief.
The concept of being "physically saved" or "spiritually saved" can be a matter of theological interpretation. Some Christians may emphasize the spiritual aspect of salvation, emphasizing the forgiveness of sins and the promise of eternal life through faith in Jesus Christ, while others may also consider the physical well-being and safety of believers.
The notion of believers being spiritually "married" or united with Christ is also a theological concept found in Christian traditions. It signifies a close and personal relationship between believers and Jesus, often described metaphorically as a marriage. This spiritual union is believed to bring about transformation and a new way of living for the believer, yet the explanation doesn't absolve you from your original blasphemous post. There you attempted to use the metaphoric marriage union with Christ in an attempt to undermine Ephesians 5:22-25 which addresses the ROLES and RESPONSIBIlITIES of husbands and wives within marriage union, using the metaphor of Christ and the Church to illustrate these roles, but this metaphor doesn't change the SPECIFIC COMMANDS for the husband and wife within the marital relationships. It would render Ehesisans 5:22-25 to no effect.
Jordyn wrote:
>The word says you are the WIFE of Christ, so these scripture of a wife submitting to her HUSBAND apply as much to you as to any earthly wife.
Judas Iscariot the thief and betrayer of Jesus Christ.
1 John 2:19 (KJV) 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
1Jn 2:19 These false teachers were professing Christians who once associated with the apostles. However, in heart they were not really one with true believers, and they showed this by going out from the fellowship. If they had been of us, they would have continued with us. Here we learn that true faith always has the quality of permanence. If a man has really been born again, he will go on for the Lord. It does not mean that we are saved by enduring to the end, but rather that those who endure to the end are really saved. The false teachers went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.
The church IS NOT a building made of brick and mortar,where earthy husbands and wives go, those churches are were the DEAD worship the works of their hands.
Revelation 21:22 And I saw no CHURCH therein, because the LORD God Almighty and the LAMB are the CHURCH ......
The DEAD attend church 2 hours a week, the LIVING are IN CHURCH 24/7.
The carnal mind is ENMITY against GOD.
God BLESS YOU, as the Spirit of truth destroys your carnal mind
>The word of God cuts both ways, a two edged sword.
>How many husbands love their wives as CHRIST loves the church ..... probably NONE.
>The word says you are the WIFE of Christ, so these scripture of a wife submitting to her HUSBAND apply as much to you as to any earthly wife.
Paul urges all those claiming to be spiritually saved to "examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves"
2 Corinthians 13:5 (KJV) 5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
Galatians 3:26-29 (KJV) 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
The law made distinctions between these classes. For instance, the distinction between Jew and Gentile is insisted on in Dt 7:6; Dt 14:1, 2. In his morning prayer, a Jewish man thanked God that He had not made him a Gentile, a slave, or a woman. In Christ Jesus these differences disappear, that is, as far as acceptance with God is concerned. A Jew is not preferred over a Gentile, a free man is not more favored than a slave, nor is a man more privileged than a woman. All are on the same level because they are in Christ Jesus.
GALATIONS 28 MUST NOT be pressed into meaning something it does not say. As far as everyday life is concerned (not to mention public ministry in the church), God does recognize the distinction between male and female. The NT contains instructions addressed to each; it also speaks separately to slaves and masters. But in obtaining blessing from God, these things do not matter. The great thing is to be in Christ Jesus. (This refers to our heavenly position, not to our earthly condition.) Before God the believing Jew is not a bit superior to the converted pagan! Govett says: "All the distinctions which the law made are swallowed up in the common grave which God has provided." Therefore, how foolish it is for Christians to seek further holiness by setting up differences which Christ has abolished.
God has his divine order of things... God > man > woman...
As there is an order/hierarchy in a state, as there is an order/hierarchy in the church, similarly there is an hierarchy in a house. The President/Prime Minister of a country is not superior to any other citizen of that country, there are all equal before the Law. But their jobs are different. The Pastor of a church is not loved more by Jesus than the rest, he is not better from any other person in the congregation But his job is different from the rest.
Ephesians 5:25
The word of God cuts both ways, a two edged sword.
How many husbands love their wives as CHRIST loves the church ..... probably NONE.
The word says you are the WIFE of Christ, so these scripture of a wife submitting to her HUSBAND apply as much to you as to any earthly wife.
Those of us who live in glass houses shouldn't cast stones.
God Bless YOU!
While it's true that the ideal of a husband loving his wife as Christ loves the Church is a high standard, it's essential to remember that the Bible sets this as an aspirational goal. In Ephesians, the passage emphasizes the sacrificial love of Christ for the Church as a model for husbands to follow. While it may be challenging for any human to love perfectly, this teaching serves as a reminder of the selfless and sacrificial nature of love within a Christian marriage.
Many husbands strive to embody these qualities, even though they may fall short at times. It's important to recognize that love in a marriage is a lifelong journey of growth and learning. While none of us can love as perfectly as Christ, the goal is to continually work towards deepening our love and commitment to our spouses, inspired by the example set by Christ's love for the Church.
> Ephesians 5:25 The word of God cuts both ways, a two edged sword.
You're mishandling scripture here. God would never oppose or contradict himself a house divided could not stand.
>Those of us who live in glass houses shouldn't cast stones.
No one is casting stones here.
>The word says you are the WIFE of Christ, so these scripture of a wife submitting to her HUSBAND apply as much to you as to >any earthly wife.
You are mishandling scripture, here again, see my below response.
Ephesians 5:22-24:
The passage goes on to discuss the husband's role in the marriage relationship, emphasizing love, sacrifice, and mutual respect. It's often interpreted as a call for wives to submit to their husbands, but it's crucial to recognize that the emphasis is on mutual respect and sacrificial love within the context of a Christian marriage.
While some Christians may use this passage to draw parallels between the relationship of Christ and the Church and the relationship between a husband and wife, it's important to remember that these passages primarily address the roles and responsibilities within a Christian marriage. They are NOT explicitly stating that an individual is the "wife of Christ" in the same sense as a human marriage.
You are absolutely right. There are obligations to both sides. But if one of them don't keep those obligations, the other side is not exluded from keeping them. Everybody will be judged for his/her own works, not for the others'. GBU
You should know better than what he stated was certainly not "right." Those scriptures in no way support such a position.
>The word says you are the WIFE of Christ, so these scripture of a wife submitting to her HUSBAND apply as much to you as to >any earthly wife.
This sort of miss handling of scripture borders on blasphemy. One could claim if what he is stating is true homosexual relations are justified.
The Lord Rebuke thee brother!
The whole word of God is about Christ and his bride, the church.
The whole chapter of Ephesians 5 is speaking of Christ the husband and the woman his wife.
Ephesians 5:32 This is a MYSTERY, but I SPEAK CONCERNING Christ and HIS CHURCH.
John 9:41 Jesus said unto them, If you were blind you would have NO SIN, but because you say I SEE, you sin remaineth
God Bless YOU!
1.>The word of God cuts both ways, a two edged sword.
2.>How many husbands love their wives as CHRIST loves the church ..... probably NONE.
3.>The word says you are the WIFE of Christ, so these scripture of a wife submitting to her
4.>HUSBAND apply as much to you as to any earthly wife.
" 2 Peter 3:16 (KJV) 16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
All of Christendom is part of Christ's CHURCH, it is no mere building. All saints are part of his church. The church is the wife of Christ but does not lower the husband's position to that of wife. God's divine order is revealed in 1 Corinthians 11:3 (KJV) 3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
Having the husband being in the corpus of the church does NOT make him the WIFE of Christ as you stated in 3. & 4. above and then the order for wifely submission would then apply to him as you also stated. This is utter blasphemy!
You have in your past wrested with scripture to make it say what you wanted in the past and it has affected your exegesis. You have mingled the Word & Self in a dangerous way for yourself.... "which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction."
Repent before it is too late and you go down the road of apostacy!
Isaiah 62:5 For as a young man marrieth a virgin, so shall thy thy sons (both men and women) MARRY THEE ...
Revelation 21:9 .... I will show you the bride (both men and women), the Lamb's WIFE .......
Repent means to change ones BELIEFS.
God Bless YOU!
> Isaiah 62:5 For as a young man marrieth a virgin, so shall thy thy sons (both men and women) >MARRY THEE
Isaiah 62:5 (KJV) For as a young man marrieth a virgin, so shall thy sons marry thee: and as the bridegroom rejoiceth over the bride, so shall thy God rejoice over thee.
Isaiah 62:5 is indeed a poetic and metaphorical passage that compares the relationship between God and the people of Israel to that of a young man marrying a virgin and a bridegroom rejoicing over the bride. It emphasizes the joy and love that God has for His people. This passage is often cited to illustrate the intimate and loving nature of the relationship between God and His people.
However, it's important to note that this passage, like many in the Bible, is metaphorical and symbolic in nature. It uses the imagery of a marital relationship to convey the idea of God's deep love and care for His people. It is not meant to be taken as a direct instruction for individuals to view themselves as the "wife of Christ" in the same way that human marriages are understood.
> Rev 21:9 .... I will show you the bride (both men and women), the Lamb's WIFE .......
Revelation 21:9 uses metaphorical language, likening believers to Christ's bride to convey a close spiritual relationship, not a literal marriage. Not to be used in support of Ephesians
>Repent means to change ones BELIEFS.
One may ask for forgiveness from sin and obtain it, but that doesn't mean they truly repented from that sin. TRUE repentance is like a burning house you don't go back to it!
Please don't insinuate I need to "repent" as I am not the one who wrote blasphemous statements such as the one below in your original post below.
Jorydn wrote:
>The word of God cuts both ways, a two edged sword.
>How many husbands love their wives as CHRIST loves the church ..... probably NONE.
>The word says you are the WIFE of Christ, so these scripture of a wife submitting to her >HUSBAND apply as much to you as to any earthly wife.
>The word of God cuts both ways, a two edged sword.
>How many husbands love their wives as CHRIST loves the church ..... probably NONE.
>The word says you are the WIFE of Christ, so these scripture of a wife submitting to her
>HUSBAND apply as much to you as to any earthly wife.
Your original meaning and intent were clear. You obviously meant that by presenting Christian women with the need to submit, then the "husband" is in the corporate body hence he is metaphorically described as the bride and the wife now places him in the position to submit as does the wife in the marriage relationship. That is against the divine order found in 1 Corinthians 11:3 and contrary to what Ephesians 5 is even stating. What you were attempting to do was blasphemous!
Even though the corporate body of believers, is metaphorically described as the "bride" or "wife" of Christ to symbolize our deep spiritual union and devotion to Him, this metaphor DOES NOT extend or CONTRADICT the commands regarding marital roles. The submission of wives to husbands and the love of husbands for their wives, as described in Ephesians 5, are SPECIFIC instructions for how husbands and wives should relate to each other within the marriage covenant.
Our spiritual relationship with Christ is indeed a profound and personal one, characterized by faith, love, and devotion, but it doesn't prescribe the same roles and dynamics as those within a marital relationship. Therefore, while we are spiritually connected to Christ as His followers, the commands related to marital roles are distinct and apply within the context of marriage, as outlined in Ephesians 5:22-25.
It's essential to interpret and apply biblical principles in their intended context. Ephesians 5:22-25 addresses the ROLES and RESPONSIBIlITIES of husbands and wives within marriage, using the metaphor of Christ and the Church to illustrate these roles, but this metaphor doesn't change the specific commands for marital relationships.
You are deceived if you think, Christ and his wife IS NOT a PHYSICAL marriage.
Did Christ leave this earth in a PHYSICAL body, those married to him, LIVE in that same body, made ONE by his RESURRECTION.
God Bless YOU!
>The word of God cuts both ways, a two edged sword.
>How many husbands love their wives as CHRIST loves the church ..... probably NONE.
>The word says you are the WIFE of Christ, so these scripture of a wife submitting to her HUSBAND apply as much to you as to any earthly wife.
In NO WAY shape or form is the Christian HUSBAND the WIFE of CHRIST in any regard or in any kind of sense or parallel.
">The word says you are the WIFE of Christ, so these scripture of a wife submitting to her HUSBAND apply as much to you as to any earthly wife." Is utter blasphemy! A first-year theological student could see that.
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