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Warning: session_start(): Failed to read session data: files (path: /var/lib/lsphp/session/lsphp80) in /home/kjv.site/public_html/Discussion-Thread/index.php on line 2 BIBLE DISCUSSION THREAD 221124
The (Holy Ghost) first shows up in the Bible in the New Testament.
( Jn 14:26) "But the Comforter, (which is the Holy Ghost), whom the Father will send ((the Father WILL send, this is future)) in my name, he shall teach you all things, ((he SHALL teach you all things, also future tense)) and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
John said the Father (will send) the Holy Ghost.
( 1 Cor 2:12-13) v13 "Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
(teacheth) is #1318; it means instructed or objectively communicated by teaching, taught.
(Holy) is #40; it means sacred, (physically pure, morally blameless or religious, consecrated) (most) holy (one, thing) clean, innocent, PERFECT, pure.
(Ghost) is #4151; it means a current of air i.e. breath, a spirit, (superhuman) an angel, or (divine) God, Christ's spirit, the Holy Ghost, spirit (-ual, _ually).
The Holy Ghost instructed or communicated by teaching.
( 2 Pet 1:20-21) v20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
v21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. The Holy Ghost instructed or communicated by teaching.
This is speaking of the prophecy that we have today which came to us not by the will of man in 1611, but by the teaching of the Holy Ghost which compares spiritual things with spiritual, instructing He communicates and teaches you all things. That's why the KJB is the pure, preserved words of the LORD, ( Ps 12:6-7) The Words of the LORD are Perfect, Every word is pure ( Proverbs 30:5-6).
The holy men of God who were moved by the Holy Ghost (was) the translators of the KJB.
Psalm 51:10-11, "10Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me. 11Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me."
The grk says the same word "Pneuma" for what the English attributes as "Ghost" and "Spirit". Ghost is maybe an archaic Engl. word for the modern term Spirit. Nevertheless it is the same word in grk, so it is the same person, the Spirit of God.
Thank you so much for your reply. If I may ask, what prompted you to send me these two pieces of scripture from Matthew and Psalms?
I do agree with you that one single word can make a difference. I think that's why we as English speaking bible believers can't agree on certain things. English is such a general language where certain words can have multiple meanings.
If we take the word ghost and the word spirit, it's easy to see how we might come up with different meanings to those two words. But as Giannis has shared with you, the term Holy Ghost and Holy Spirit are the exact same in the original text which was used by those who translated that text into English.
So with what brother Giannis has shared, I don't believe there is a distinction between Holy Ghost and Holy Spirit.
Unfortunately the translation has caused centuries of a great confusion about the identification of the Holy Spirit who is not a "ghost" or "Ghost", but a person, and as a person he is the lesser among the three- John 15:26 combined with John 16:12-15.
I must say that the person of Holy Spirit does not accept being called by this undesirable, unpleasant, inconvenient nickname, in fact such translation sounds as a mockery, it's terrible, very terrible.
Hope that GOD forgives the author(s) of such translation that has caused great and secular confusion for centuries, I should believe that this was not the translators' intention, of course.
This specific trnslation was/ is not good. Times ago I had a short debate about it in the site denominated "purebible".
The Holy Spirit "shows up" in Genesis 1:2 and elsewhere in the Old Testament. David cried out that God would not take His Holy Spirit from him in Psalm 51:11.
The Words of the LORD are pure Words. Every Word of God is pure. The word (every) is #3605; it means the whole, all, any or every, to complete, (make) perfect.
(Every) Word of God is Perfect!
The words (Holy Ghost) only show up in the New Testament GiGi.
Which of these are perfect GiGi?
The KJB ( Col 1:14) "In whom we have redemption through his blood"
The Nasb "in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins"
The Niv "in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins"
The Nlt "who purchased our freedom, and forgave our sins"
Only one of these verses are perfect GiGi, can you not see that?
The other three verses fall into ( Jer 23:36) The word (perverted) is #2015; it means to change or overturn.
Why would modern versions pervert, or CHANGE the words of the living God and remove the words "through his blood"?
GiGi I appreciate your input on this post even though the post said nothing about the Spirit of God. The words (Holy Ghost) is not mentioned in the Old Testament. You commented on this post then you say "I do not wish to engage in this conversation further" when I ask you a question that you didn't want to answer. You were the one who engaged in this conversation. The Truth matters GiGi, you are putting trust in bibles that are nothing but words of men and are not Inspired by God!
Please answer these questions GiGi.
Why would modern version bibles remove the words "through his blood"?
In my post I did say I only wished to comment about the spirit being mentioned in the OT. I do not wish to engage in conversation with you concerning translations of the Bible because your tone is argumentative.
Just so you know, I have never said I put my trust in translations other than the KJV. You are wrong on this. My trust is in God and trust He will lead me into truth.
As to your request for me to answer your queries, I choose not to give in to your demands. We have discussed this before and I do not wish to revisit this situation because your wording is aggressive towards me. It is just not in the right spirit in my estimation. I leave off of this conversation today in the name of peace.
When I read the statement: "The (Holy Ghost) first shows up in the Bible in the New Testament," my response (if I would have chosen to give one) would have been similar to GiGi's response.
True, Jimbob uses the term Holy Ghost, not Holy Spirit or Spirit of God, but are they not all the same Spirit?
So, if they are the same Spirit (which I believe they are), even though the term Holy Ghost is not mentioned in the Old Testament, the Holy Ghost/Holy Spirit/Spirit of God/Gods Spirit, whichever phrase you wish to use, can all be found working throughout the OT, regardless of which term is used.
If someone chooses to say Holy Ghost, and the other person chooses to say Holy Spirit or Spirit of God, it's all the same Spirit, and that Spirit (Holy Spirit/Holy Ghost) is found in the OT.
I do not see any mistreatment by GiGi here, and if Jimbob feels he is being mistreated, I think he would say so. He's been upfront with me in some of our conversations in the past so I think he would speak for himself if he felt that he was being mistreated. Just my thoughts!
Finally, I did consider responding before GiGi did, but there is a reason why I chose not to. I had a suspicion where this was headed right from the very beginning. It seems as though I chose wisely.
Thanks for your response to TKL concerning this conversation. I can see that you understand what I was getting at in responding to Jimbob about the Spirit of God being mentioned in the OT. The Scriptures do use several words for this Spirit as you stated. By the response to you and I it may seem that TKL and Jimbob think that the Spirit, the Holy Spirit, and the Spirit of God are not referring to the Holy Ghost. But maybe Jimbob was coming from a narrow view of the term Holy Ghost only being used int he NT. We don't know for sure unless they say so.
But, as you, I also could see where this conversation with Jimbob would go, and so kept my response to him narrow as well. I did not answer His questions because I don't know the answer or any of the other reasons he gave for my refusal. I did not answer nor wish to engage in the conversation further because it will only lead to him being continually confrontational and argumentative on this topic. I see that as being unfruitful and best to avoid it.
I do appreciate you speaking up for me. You are always kind and understand well where I am coming from. Thank you.
It is one thing to present one's viewpoint strongly and another thing to impugn another person's character. I choose not to do the latter. We both sensed well how conversing on this topic with Jimbob will go because there have been so many threads from him on this topic in the past few months that we know how he interacts with those who respond. We have chosen what is best for us and most healthy for all.
GiGi you made some accusations against me that were greatly exaggerated, and it would seem to me the reason for it was that I said you run from questions on a topic you don't know the answer too. I will not apologize for truth GiGi.
I honestly try to share the Truth on this site to help others.
If I did offend you I promise that was not my intent. We can all learn from each other on this site if we seek the Truth. Nobody has all the right answers, but it is very important to admit when we don't have the answers in order to grow as the Body of Christ in our understanding of the Truth in the Word of God, also by having friendly discussions, and searching the scriptures ourselves for that Truth in our studies. If we use this forum for that purpose, then everything posted would be much more fruitful for all who see it. Iron sharpens Iron!
I really can't remember anything I posted at anytime, or in any comment to you or Jesse that would make you suspicious of me, or to say the things you said about me in your comment to Jesse.
This is a great site for learning if it is used in the right way.
I'm not pushing this question on you, but if you do know the answer please share it with us GiGi, or anyone else who would like to answer it.
This question is really important in showing the preservation and purity in the Word of God.
Do you think the modern version bibles that leave out the words "through his blood" in ( Col 1:14) are Inspired by God?
( 2 Tim 3:16) They are either Inspired by God, or they are not.
As TKL has said in many posts, we should all be "Growing daily".
This question is for growth in the Body of Christ.
Jimbob, I said that my reason for not answering was not because I do not know that answer, but because I do not wish to engage with you on this topic. So, respectfully, you can stop accusing me of not knowing the answer. Just as you did not wish to offend me, neither did I wish to offend you. I just wanted to share my feelings on why I think it is best for me to not discuss this topic with you. I can see that you are offended by that. Just as you think you have spoken truth to me, I think I have spoken truth to you. So, I hope you have a blessed night. I pray for you often and look forward to talking with you on another topic.
Jesse its good to hear from you. I wouldn't say I was mistreated by GiGi but I will say GiGi seems to run from questions when she has no answers for them, instead of looking at it to seek the truth with an open mind which is what allows us to grow in the Word, and our Faith as the Holy Ghost will teach us all things.
Jesse you say the Holy Ghost, the Holy Spirit, and the Spirit of God are all the same. The Comforter IS the Holy Ghost ( Jn 14:26) "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost".
When does the Comforter come? ( Jn 16:7) "Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away, for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you".
Those of us who believe that God preserved His Words in the KJB also believe that EVERY Word of God is pure, EVERY WORD!
The Holy Ghost wasn't mentioned in the OT because the Comforter did not come until after Jesus was crucified.
Thus the Holy Ghost shows up in the NT.
Which only gives strength to the holy men of God being the KJB translators who were moved by the Holy Ghost in ( 2 Pet 1:19-21) It is not Biblical that they were the OT prophets as GiGi and others have said in past posts.
Jesse you said "Finally, I did consider responding before GiGi did, but there is a reason why I chose not to. I had a suspicion where this was headed right from the very beginning. It seems as though I chose wisely".
The only place this was headed Jesse was to show the Truth, it should be accepted!
I seek the Truth in the Word of God with an open mind, I don't post to please others, or to be in agreement with others as many here seem to do. I try to post on subjects that have great importance to the time we live in now, to help others who are deceiving themselves or being deceived to see the Truth.
This is one of those subjects. I really don't understand why you are suspicious of me Jesse, you honestly have no reason to be.
( Jn 14:26) "But the Comforter, (which is the Holy Ghost), whom the Father will send ((the Father WILL send, this is future)) in my name, he shall teach you all things, ((he SHALL teach you all things, also future tense)) and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
John said the Father (will send) the Holy Ghost.
( 1 Cor 2:12-13) v13 "Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
(teacheth) is #1318; it means instructed or objectively communicated by teaching, taught.
(Holy) is #40; it means sacred, (physically pure, morally blameless or religious, consecrated) (most) holy (one, thing) clean, innocent, PERFECT, pure.
(Ghost) is #4151; it means a current of air i.e. breath, a spirit, (superhuman) an angel, or (divine) God, Christ's spirit, the Holy Ghost, spirit (-ual, _ually).
The Holy Ghost instructed or communicated by teaching.
( 2 Pet 1:20-21) v20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
v21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. The Holy Ghost instructed or communicated by teaching.
This is speaking of the prophecy that we have today which came to us not by the will of man in 1611, but by the teaching of the Holy Ghost which compares spiritual things with spiritual, instructing He communicates and teaches you all things. That's why the KJB is the pure, preserved words of the LORD, ( Ps 12:6-7) The Words of the LORD are Perfect, Every word is pure ( Proverbs 30:5-6).
The holy men of God who were moved by the Holy Ghost (was) the translators of the KJB.
How could anyone possibly see this any other way?
The Truth should be what matters if we seek it.
God Bless all who seek His Truth.
[Comment Removed]
Psalm 51:10-11, "10Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me. 11Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me."
The grk says the same word "Pneuma" for what the English attributes as "Ghost" and "Spirit". Ghost is maybe an archaic Engl. word for the modern term Spirit. Nevertheless it is the same word in grk, so it is the same person, the Spirit of God.
GBU
[Comment Removed]
Thank you so much for your reply. If I may ask, what prompted you to send me these two pieces of scripture from Matthew and Psalms?
I do agree with you that one single word can make a difference. I think that's why we as English speaking bible believers can't agree on certain things. English is such a general language where certain words can have multiple meanings.
If we take the word ghost and the word spirit, it's easy to see how we might come up with different meanings to those two words. But as Giannis has shared with you, the term Holy Ghost and Holy Spirit are the exact same in the original text which was used by those who translated that text into English.
So with what brother Giannis has shared, I don't believe there is a distinction between Holy Ghost and Holy Spirit.
Again, thank you for your reply!
Greetings in Christ JESUS
Unfortunately the translation has caused centuries of a great confusion about the identification of the Holy Spirit who is not a "ghost" or "Ghost", but a person, and as a person he is the lesser among the three- John 15:26 combined with John 16:12-15.
I must say that the person of Holy Spirit does not accept being called by this undesirable, unpleasant, inconvenient nickname, in fact such translation sounds as a mockery, it's terrible, very terrible.
Hope that GOD forgives the author(s) of such translation that has caused great and secular confusion for centuries, I should believe that this was not the translators' intention, of course.
This specific trnslation was/ is not good. Times ago I had a short debate about it in the site denominated "purebible".
God bless
[Comment Removed]
The Holy Spirit "shows up" in Genesis 1:2 and elsewhere in the Old Testament. David cried out that God would not take His Holy Spirit from him in Psalm 51:11.
[Comment Removed]
It is also truly good to see someone else defending the Inspired Word of God on this site, sadly not many do!
Every Word of God is pure! ( Proverbs 30:5-6)
Growing daily should be important to every one of us.
God Bless you TKL.
The Words of the LORD are pure Words. Every Word of God is pure. The word (every) is #3605; it means the whole, all, any or every, to complete, (make) perfect.
(Every) Word of God is Perfect!
The words (Holy Ghost) only show up in the New Testament GiGi.
Which of these are perfect GiGi?
The KJB ( Col 1:14) "In whom we have redemption through his blood"
The Nasb "in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins"
The Niv "in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins"
The Nlt "who purchased our freedom, and forgave our sins"
Only one of these verses are perfect GiGi, can you not see that?
The other three verses fall into ( Jer 23:36) The word (perverted) is #2015; it means to change or overturn.
Why would modern versions pervert, or CHANGE the words of the living God and remove the words "through his blood"?
Would you please answer this question GiGi.
Blessings to you GiGi.
]
We have had this discussion several times already. In my post I just wanted to point out that the Spirit of God is mentioned in many places in the OT.
Otherwise, I do not wish to engage with you in this conversation further.
Please answer these questions GiGi.
Why would modern version bibles remove the words "through his blood"?
Do you think they are Inspired by God?
In my post I did say I only wished to comment about the spirit being mentioned in the OT. I do not wish to engage in conversation with you concerning translations of the Bible because your tone is argumentative.
Just so you know, I have never said I put my trust in translations other than the KJV. You are wrong on this. My trust is in God and trust He will lead me into truth.
As to your request for me to answer your queries, I choose not to give in to your demands. We have discussed this before and I do not wish to revisit this situation because your wording is aggressive towards me. It is just not in the right spirit in my estimation. I leave off of this conversation today in the name of peace.
[Comment Removed]
Sharing a differing viewpoint is not being unkind. With that I will end this conversation with you, also.
When I read the statement: "The (Holy Ghost) first shows up in the Bible in the New Testament," my response (if I would have chosen to give one) would have been similar to GiGi's response.
True, Jimbob uses the term Holy Ghost, not Holy Spirit or Spirit of God, but are they not all the same Spirit?
So, if they are the same Spirit (which I believe they are), even though the term Holy Ghost is not mentioned in the Old Testament, the Holy Ghost/Holy Spirit/Spirit of God/Gods Spirit, whichever phrase you wish to use, can all be found working throughout the OT, regardless of which term is used.
If someone chooses to say Holy Ghost, and the other person chooses to say Holy Spirit or Spirit of God, it's all the same Spirit, and that Spirit (Holy Spirit/Holy Ghost) is found in the OT.
I do not see any mistreatment by GiGi here, and if Jimbob feels he is being mistreated, I think he would say so. He's been upfront with me in some of our conversations in the past so I think he would speak for himself if he felt that he was being mistreated. Just my thoughts!
Finally, I did consider responding before GiGi did, but there is a reason why I chose not to. I had a suspicion where this was headed right from the very beginning. It seems as though I chose wisely.
Thanks for your response to TKL concerning this conversation. I can see that you understand what I was getting at in responding to Jimbob about the Spirit of God being mentioned in the OT. The Scriptures do use several words for this Spirit as you stated. By the response to you and I it may seem that TKL and Jimbob think that the Spirit, the Holy Spirit, and the Spirit of God are not referring to the Holy Ghost. But maybe Jimbob was coming from a narrow view of the term Holy Ghost only being used int he NT. We don't know for sure unless they say so.
But, as you, I also could see where this conversation with Jimbob would go, and so kept my response to him narrow as well. I did not answer His questions because I don't know the answer or any of the other reasons he gave for my refusal. I did not answer nor wish to engage in the conversation further because it will only lead to him being continually confrontational and argumentative on this topic. I see that as being unfruitful and best to avoid it.
I do appreciate you speaking up for me. You are always kind and understand well where I am coming from. Thank you.
It is one thing to present one's viewpoint strongly and another thing to impugn another person's character. I choose not to do the latter. We both sensed well how conversing on this topic with Jimbob will go because there have been so many threads from him on this topic in the past few months that we know how he interacts with those who respond. We have chosen what is best for us and most healthy for all.
I honestly try to share the Truth on this site to help others.
If I did offend you I promise that was not my intent. We can all learn from each other on this site if we seek the Truth. Nobody has all the right answers, but it is very important to admit when we don't have the answers in order to grow as the Body of Christ in our understanding of the Truth in the Word of God, also by having friendly discussions, and searching the scriptures ourselves for that Truth in our studies. If we use this forum for that purpose, then everything posted would be much more fruitful for all who see it. Iron sharpens Iron!
I really can't remember anything I posted at anytime, or in any comment to you or Jesse that would make you suspicious of me, or to say the things you said about me in your comment to Jesse.
This is a great site for learning if it is used in the right way.
I'm not pushing this question on you, but if you do know the answer please share it with us GiGi, or anyone else who would like to answer it.
This question is really important in showing the preservation and purity in the Word of God.
Do you think the modern version bibles that leave out the words "through his blood" in ( Col 1:14) are Inspired by God?
( 2 Tim 3:16) They are either Inspired by God, or they are not.
As TKL has said in many posts, we should all be "Growing daily".
This question is for growth in the Body of Christ.
I Pray you see it that way GiGi.
May God Bless you with peace.
Ephesians 4:4 ....ONE Spirit ...... called by different names.
God Bless YOU!
Jesse you say the Holy Ghost, the Holy Spirit, and the Spirit of God are all the same. The Comforter IS the Holy Ghost ( Jn 14:26) "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost".
When does the Comforter come? ( Jn 16:7) "Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away, for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you".
Those of us who believe that God preserved His Words in the KJB also believe that EVERY Word of God is pure, EVERY WORD!
The Holy Ghost wasn't mentioned in the OT because the Comforter did not come until after Jesus was crucified.
Thus the Holy Ghost shows up in the NT.
Which only gives strength to the holy men of God being the KJB translators who were moved by the Holy Ghost in ( 2 Pet 1:19-21) It is not Biblical that they were the OT prophets as GiGi and others have said in past posts.
Jesse you said "Finally, I did consider responding before GiGi did, but there is a reason why I chose not to. I had a suspicion where this was headed right from the very beginning. It seems as though I chose wisely".
The only place this was headed Jesse was to show the Truth, it should be accepted!
I seek the Truth in the Word of God with an open mind, I don't post to please others, or to be in agreement with others as many here seem to do. I try to post on subjects that have great importance to the time we live in now, to help others who are deceiving themselves or being deceived to see the Truth.
This is one of those subjects. I really don't understand why you are suspicious of me Jesse, you honestly have no reason to be.
The Word of God is Alive.
Blessing to you Jesse.
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