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The teaching of the immortal soul is from Greek philosophy, not the Bible. This confuses the understanding of the living and the dead. We became a living soul and when this body dies, we a no longer a living soul until we are resurrected into our immortal body. The only living is those through faith will receive the gift of eternal life everyone else will perish, be dead forever, everlasting.
Jesus is Lord over those who have died/dead now and the living, those who are now living, and the dead who died in faith who will be living after the resurrection into eternal life with Him, this is our hope. We should not live for self-gratification; we should be like Christ as Christ did not, please Himself in this life we should also not live to please ourselves but for others.
The scriptures from the former days, the Old Testament, have not stopped being valuable to us. The 39 books of the OT are the Words of God, full of truth, wisdom, history, and great encouragement for our walk in the Spirit.
The meaning of words changes, today we see the word Jew and we take the meaning as all who are in Judaism and everyone else are Gentiles/non-Jew. The word nation/nations or people/peoples is a better understanding for the word Gentile. The word Gentile that is used was translated from the Latin Vulgate the word Gentilis in the time of the 1st century would have meant anyone who was not a Roman citizen.
We know what kingdom is coming, we have been told and this kingdom will reign over all nations/peoples on this earth and that is our hope and what we have told to pray for, Matt. 6:9-10. Andronicus and Junia may have been at the gathering at Pentecost when Paul was against the Church by beating, killing, and putting believers in prison, but shortly after, we know how he was converted I am sure Andronicus and Junia were overwhelmed with encouragement and strengthened in faith.
Continue in His goodness or be cut off. For what God has shown in His mercy by the sacrifice of His Son and his promise of eternal life to us, is it unreasonable for us to be a living sacrifice, this cannot refer to a sacrifice that covers or atones for sin. It is true repentance and obedience and service to Him. A choice to do and continue to do or be cut off/perish.
Cain and Abel made an offering, without doubt, they were doing this because God had instructed them, but it does not say what was instructed. Abel was a keeper of sheep and Cain was a tiller of the ground and they both brought of their works. Can we say it was because Abel sacrificed blood he was accepted? No.
Could they be sacrificing for sin when the law had not been given? Noah is the next one who is recorded sacrificing and the law was not yet given. When Cain killed Abel God put a mark on Cain so no one would kill him because the penalty for murder was not given until after the flood, Gen. 8:6.
It was not the offering type or quality that Cain offered, it was his heart, and his offering was not in faith, Genesis 4:6-8. LORD God spoke to Cain and said that if he would do good it would be accepted, but if not, sin would devour him. Same as we are to continue in His goodness or be cut off. This does not mean that we earn God's love or favor; we receive that as a result of salvation through Jesus, our repentance and obedience are the evidence of our faith, Hebrews 11.
"Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers" unless it would cause you to sin. I agree this has been used by many and is used today with misinterpreted Scriptures for control, power, and wealth over people. We see this in Revelation 2 with the Nicolaitans that exploded in the 4th century even with the punishment of death using the word heresy, the Greek word hairesis meaning, a self-chosen opinion, a religious or philosophical sect.
The reason I posted those posts is that I wanted to share some things I notice when reading the Bible, and bring some considerations to fellow christians about some topics. I don't really like getting into debates. Firstly they tire me, that is why I usually post 1- 2 answers and then stop. Secondly I tend to use a sharp language sometimes and people get offended, not good from my side, is it?
About the "living sacrifice", the way I understand it is that a sacrifice simply means an offering to God here. A living sacrifice is our life which we offer to God. If we wish that God accepts/likes our life as an offering, this has to be "holy", otherwise God will not accept it. "Holy" includes repentance, includes asking for forgiveness, includes a strive to live righteously.
About immortal souls. The belief that a soul is immortal was not introduced by ancient Greeks. Thousands of years before them, the Egyptians, Sumerians, Assyrians etc believed in an afterlife. Even in the primitive age, in the stone age, people were believing in afterlife. Burials of stone age people that have been found contain cooking pottery and clothes and precious stones and metals for them to use as money in the afterlife. That was always the belief of mankind no matter nation or age, which means that the memory of the afterlife was left to all people since the beginning, otherwise it can not be explained how people dispersed all over the world from America to China in an age that there was no transportation and contacts between tribes and nations, they were all believing the same thing, the afterlife.
About the Kingdom of Jesus, if we mean a kingdom where Jesus together with Israel will rule over all the earth, my question is "when is that going to happen?". It will not happen before rapture, neither after when the antichrist will rule, neither in the millenium when all those slained during those 7 years will rule. So When?
Thanks for your answer brother, much appreciated. Blessings
My reply was not to debate it was just my understanding, it is just good to see posts like yours that inspire study for truth. I agree that the belief in an afterlife was worldwide but when the Church began the largest influence was Greek. At the time Jesus first came many of the people in Judea, spoke and read Greek. They had the Septuagint and the Greek meaning of some words like Sheol with its main meaning to be the grave became Hades a place of bodiless souls, and the meaning of death that was sleep, became a separation of the soul from the body.
Your question on the kingdom; we may differ on this, my understanding does not include a rapture as taught, the Church being taken to heaven and a 7-year tribulation. Jesus's second coming is a onetime event, not two. When Jesus returns, the first resurrection of the chosen, and faithful. He will set up the kingdom with those chosen and faithful and will reign over this earth from Jerusalem for 1000 years.
When that time is up the last battle with Satan and his army and then the final judgement and all will be made new.
Thank you again, discussion is good if we inspire to study.
I didn't take your answer as a dedate. I was actually glad that somebody noticed and answered my posts. I did a general statement.
About "Hades". Luke the evangelist and Paul the apostle used that term with full knowledge of what the greeks meant with that and what they thought of it, but still used it. Why, as long as they would definitely know that they would mislead people to a false impression? Or unless they used that term because it resembled to what they believed that Sheol represented.
About Jesus' Kingdom, I agree with you that He will set a literal kingdom on earth during the millenium, but not together with the nation Israel that some claim. The Rev says together with those slained during that last 7 year period and if we take into account the parable of the talents given to the bondservants by their Lord, then all saved people all over the time will rule together with Him and probably the saints of the OT are also included. This is how I understand it brother.
Thank you, I know we agree on many things and sometimes in the minority. I don't know if I would say I explain it better. I feel many times I come up short.
Just reading your posts, I am enjoying them, it is unveiling the truth. I will reply later on them I just want to go over them with prayer and more study. I love what you are posting much can be learned with an open heart.
"Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen (relatives), and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me."
Ah, so there were people, Paul's relatives that were in Christ before him and certainly prayed for his salvation. And God answered.
Have a blessed day or night.
Part two,
The teaching of the immortal soul is from Greek philosophy, not the Bible. This confuses the understanding of the living and the dead. We became a living soul and when this body dies, we a no longer a living soul until we are resurrected into our immortal body. The only living is those through faith will receive the gift of eternal life everyone else will perish, be dead forever, everlasting.
Jesus is Lord over those who have died/dead now and the living, those who are now living, and the dead who died in faith who will be living after the resurrection into eternal life with Him, this is our hope. We should not live for self-gratification; we should be like Christ as Christ did not, please Himself in this life we should also not live to please ourselves but for others.
The scriptures from the former days, the Old Testament, have not stopped being valuable to us. The 39 books of the OT are the Words of God, full of truth, wisdom, history, and great encouragement for our walk in the Spirit.
The meaning of words changes, today we see the word Jew and we take the meaning as all who are in Judaism and everyone else are Gentiles/non-Jew. The word nation/nations or people/peoples is a better understanding for the word Gentile. The word Gentile that is used was translated from the Latin Vulgate the word Gentilis in the time of the 1st century would have meant anyone who was not a Roman citizen.
We know what kingdom is coming, we have been told and this kingdom will reign over all nations/peoples on this earth and that is our hope and what we have told to pray for, Matt. 6:9-10. Andronicus and Junia may have been at the gathering at Pentecost when Paul was against the Church by beating, killing, and putting believers in prison, but shortly after, we know how he was converted I am sure Andronicus and Junia were overwhelmed with encouragement and strengthened in faith.
Thank you again for your post.
God bless,
RLW
Thank you,
Part one,
Continue in His goodness or be cut off. For what God has shown in His mercy by the sacrifice of His Son and his promise of eternal life to us, is it unreasonable for us to be a living sacrifice, this cannot refer to a sacrifice that covers or atones for sin. It is true repentance and obedience and service to Him. A choice to do and continue to do or be cut off/perish.
Cain and Abel made an offering, without doubt, they were doing this because God had instructed them, but it does not say what was instructed. Abel was a keeper of sheep and Cain was a tiller of the ground and they both brought of their works. Can we say it was because Abel sacrificed blood he was accepted? No.
Could they be sacrificing for sin when the law had not been given? Noah is the next one who is recorded sacrificing and the law was not yet given. When Cain killed Abel God put a mark on Cain so no one would kill him because the penalty for murder was not given until after the flood, Gen. 8:6.
It was not the offering type or quality that Cain offered, it was his heart, and his offering was not in faith, Genesis 4:6-8. LORD God spoke to Cain and said that if he would do good it would be accepted, but if not, sin would devour him. Same as we are to continue in His goodness or be cut off. This does not mean that we earn God's love or favor; we receive that as a result of salvation through Jesus, our repentance and obedience are the evidence of our faith, Hebrews 11.
"Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers" unless it would cause you to sin. I agree this has been used by many and is used today with misinterpreted Scriptures for control, power, and wealth over people. We see this in Revelation 2 with the Nicolaitans that exploded in the 4th century even with the punishment of death using the word heresy, the Greek word hairesis meaning, a self-chosen opinion, a religious or philosophical sect.
See part two.
The reason I posted those posts is that I wanted to share some things I notice when reading the Bible, and bring some considerations to fellow christians about some topics. I don't really like getting into debates. Firstly they tire me, that is why I usually post 1- 2 answers and then stop. Secondly I tend to use a sharp language sometimes and people get offended, not good from my side, is it?
About the "living sacrifice", the way I understand it is that a sacrifice simply means an offering to God here. A living sacrifice is our life which we offer to God. If we wish that God accepts/likes our life as an offering, this has to be "holy", otherwise God will not accept it. "Holy" includes repentance, includes asking for forgiveness, includes a strive to live righteously.
About immortal souls. The belief that a soul is immortal was not introduced by ancient Greeks. Thousands of years before them, the Egyptians, Sumerians, Assyrians etc believed in an afterlife. Even in the primitive age, in the stone age, people were believing in afterlife. Burials of stone age people that have been found contain cooking pottery and clothes and precious stones and metals for them to use as money in the afterlife. That was always the belief of mankind no matter nation or age, which means that the memory of the afterlife was left to all people since the beginning, otherwise it can not be explained how people dispersed all over the world from America to China in an age that there was no transportation and contacts between tribes and nations, they were all believing the same thing, the afterlife.
About the Kingdom of Jesus, if we mean a kingdom where Jesus together with Israel will rule over all the earth, my question is "when is that going to happen?". It will not happen before rapture, neither after when the antichrist will rule, neither in the millenium when all those slained during those 7 years will rule. So When?
Thanks for your answer brother, much appreciated. Blessings
My reply was not to debate it was just my understanding, it is just good to see posts like yours that inspire study for truth. I agree that the belief in an afterlife was worldwide but when the Church began the largest influence was Greek. At the time Jesus first came many of the people in Judea, spoke and read Greek. They had the Septuagint and the Greek meaning of some words like Sheol with its main meaning to be the grave became Hades a place of bodiless souls, and the meaning of death that was sleep, became a separation of the soul from the body.
Your question on the kingdom; we may differ on this, my understanding does not include a rapture as taught, the Church being taken to heaven and a 7-year tribulation. Jesus's second coming is a onetime event, not two. When Jesus returns, the first resurrection of the chosen, and faithful. He will set up the kingdom with those chosen and faithful and will reign over this earth from Jerusalem for 1000 years.
When that time is up the last battle with Satan and his army and then the final judgement and all will be made new.
Thank you again, discussion is good if we inspire to study.
God bless,
RLW
I didn't take your answer as a dedate. I was actually glad that somebody noticed and answered my posts. I did a general statement.
About "Hades". Luke the evangelist and Paul the apostle used that term with full knowledge of what the greeks meant with that and what they thought of it, but still used it. Why, as long as they would definitely know that they would mislead people to a false impression? Or unless they used that term because it resembled to what they believed that Sheol represented.
About Jesus' Kingdom, I agree with you that He will set a literal kingdom on earth during the millenium, but not together with the nation Israel that some claim. The Rev says together with those slained during that last 7 year period and if we take into account the parable of the talents given to the bondservants by their Lord, then all saved people all over the time will rule together with Him and probably the saints of the OT are also included. This is how I understand it brother.
Thank you, I know we agree on many things and sometimes in the minority. I don't know if I would say I explain it better. I feel many times I come up short.
God bless,
RLW
Just reading your posts, I am enjoying them, it is unveiling the truth. I will reply later on them I just want to go over them with prayer and more study. I love what you are posting much can be learned with an open heart.
God bless,
RLW
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