Bible Discussion Thread

I have been thinking a lot recently about the incident in the Garden when Peter cuts off Malchus' ear. I find it strange that Peter carried a sword at all or that our Lord would have countenanced anyone like that as a follower far less a disciple.

I wonder if any of the gospel critics have given this incident any serious consideration?

Hi Agnostic73,

Interesting sign-in name, just to add to Jema's wonderful reply. My understanding Jesus came to fulfill the law and the prophets and Jesus asking them in Luke 22:36 to buy swords was part of fulfilling the prophecy. He told them in, Luke 22:37 For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end.

Isaiah 53:12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

In Luke 22:36-38, He tells them why the swords they had would be enough, then in verse 52, we see they came with swords and spears as against a thief. Jesus was also put on the cross between two thieves, Matthew 27:38. Even the least of the not obvious prophecies, Jesus fulfilled them all.

God bless,

RLW

From replying to you today , I learnt that I must not allow my zeal for the truth to hurt anyone else , Jesus is a healer , if I belong to him then I must try very hard to be the same , a healer like Jesus , not a wounder like Peter was , I'm sure Peter learned that lesson rather quicker than I have :) .

Page 2 , Peters natural / carnal / human / sinful instinct would have been to try to kill anyone who would hurt Jesus . As it is , he wounds this Malchus and what does Jesus do ? Right up to the last possible moment he tries so hard to win over everyone to the Truth , he tries again to show Judas and those brute guards and corrupt officials , that he is the Messiah , the Son of God , the One that they have all been waiting for , Jesus never gives up . He wants them all to remember this incident , how he picked up a severed ear and basically stuck it back on . Imagine if you or I saw someone do that ! How would we feel ? We would surely remember it forever , how would we feel about the person who had done that ? ! Do we know how this incident affected all those who witnessed it ? No we don't . Do we know if Malchus became a Christian ? Or any other of the Jews who saw this ? No we don't . But we will know one day :) . Everything in the Bible is important ! Every incident every Word ! It was written for our spiritual understandin and development . Nothing is to be rejected as inappropriate or offensive or mysterious , all you have to do is put yourself in there ! Imagine that you are right there ! Hearing it , seeing it , feeling it , take it all in and process how it would make you feel , how the others there might feel about what they are seeing . The Bible isn't just Words in a book , it's alive ! Let yourself be immersed in it and feel it ! Peter learned submission , the others who witnessed it learned that Christ possessed the Power of God, what did you learn ?

Hello Jema

The grk "machaira" may refer to a sword but also to a dagger or a knife. I think it was impossible for Jews to cary real swords with them while being under Roman rule, they were in a risk to be called rebels. So what Peter had with him was most probably a dagger or simply a knife. Lets not forget that Jesus and the apostles had no permanent residence, so they carried together with them all that was needed for cutting, say, bread or meat or use in small works. I also don't think that Jesus would ever allow them carrying swords with them, and secretely. This is against His teachings. This is also shown by His answer to Peter.

In Luke 22:36 Jesus speaks metaforically, He warns His disciples that for a while (those 3 days) they will on their own, without His protection, so they must be ready for that.

In Luke 22 we have Jesus referring to the kingdom of God, telling twice the same phrase, "Until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God."(v.16. v.18). Oneupmanship among the disciples also is in harmony that it was with regards to the kingdom to come, "And he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."(v.38) This is with reference to this promise, "And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me," (vv. 28-30) and is to be taken as the badge of their symbol. Fighting the temporal powers was never the case. Jesus testimony before Pilate establishes it.(John18:36) He is referring to the kingdom to come.

There must be lessons for us to learn from this incident . Nothing in the Bible is irrelevant , it's all there for a purpose . This incident is mentioned in two of the Gospels , Luke and John . Let's look at Luke :) . Ch 22 , starting at V 31. Luke doesn't tell us the servants name but John tells us it's Malchus . John may know this because he states in John Ch 18 V 15 , that he was known to the high priest , so John knows Annas , so maybe he also knew Malchus ? Anyway back to Luke . V 24-32 of Ch 22 , Jesus is talking about his Father's Kingdom and the kings of the Gentiles etc , as far as I'm able to find out Malchus name means something like royal or king , if anyone knows any better please tell me . V 31-38 . Jesus actually tells his desciples to bring swords ! There must be a reason . The Romans were very careful about who was allowed to carry swords in their territories , so this may not have been a huge sharp thing , maybe more like a long dagger , how did Peter get this ? We don't know , but we do know Christ wanted them to have it with them . In V 31 Jesus has told Peter that satan wants to sift him as wheat , remember that Peter can sometimes be hot headed compared to the others ? Luke doesn't tell us that it was Peter who cut of Malchus's ear but John does . What else might Peter have done , he being the hothead ? He's in the garden with a sword and someone is threatening Jesus . Peter might have easily lost his cool and killed someone ! Jesus was there though , and Peter knows for sure that Jesus wouldn't want that . Peter has already declared that he would die for Jesus , may be he would have killed for him also . Jesus needs Peter to understand that this is what is supposed to happen , Peter needs to submit to God's Will , the same way that Jesus does and has and will , right up to being crucified . Peter vents his anger and fear by cutting off Malchus ear , yes it's an act of violence , but Peter has learnt restraint , his natural , see page 2.

Agnostic 73

Here are the verses you refer to. "Then Simon Peter having a sword drew it, and smote the high priest's servant, and cut off his right ear. The servant's name was Malchus./ Then said Jesus unto Peter, Put up thy sword into the sheath: the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it? ( John 18:10-11)

One disciple having a sword came handy to Simon Peter who was quick to react often to his sorrow. He did it on the spur of moment sensing danger to his master. Why would disciples carry staff? It supports one who must move from place to place with no permanent place of abode. En route it can deter wild animals dogs from coming closer. Similarly a sword is convenient to have at hand.