The overriding scriptural message is asking us to Repent. I question whether many Christians today really understand what repent means.
Acts 2:38 "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."
Romans 8:8 "So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God."
Romans 8:9 "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his."
Meaning of the word Repent.
Verb:
1: to turn from sin and dedicate oneself to the amendment of one's life
2: to feel regret or contrition
b: to change one's mind
transitive verb
1: to cause to feel regret or contrition
2: to feel sorrow, regret, or contrition for
I continue to hear Christians on this site, and elsewhere telling themselves and everyone else that they will always sin. They have accepted that as long as they live, they will always be sinners. This thinking/mindset comes directly from satan, who else would encourage you to think this way, which is totally against scripture.
Romans 6:6 "Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin."
1 John 3:6 "Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him."
Living in sin - does not meet the expectation of God for us to REPENT!
Living in sin yourself is one thing, telling others that they can never stop sinning is another. Thinking like this and speaking like this is not very encouraging to yourself, or others. Something to think about.
You did not address this directly with me, but I felt it. This is not to debate it with you. I know in my heart nothing I have posted comes from Satan. There is a difference between, we sin, and we serve sin, dead in or dead to.
Ephesians 2:1:4 When we are born, we are born dead in trespasses and sins, and we remain in that spiritually dead state until we believe in faith Jesus as our savior and are baptized for the remission of our sins, at that moment we who were dead in sin are made spiritually alive in Jesus, Ephesians 2:5.
We confess to now be dead to sin and the old way of living and walk in the newness of life found in following Jesus, Romans 6:1-4. We are dead to sin and alive to God and we have a new walk, Romans 6:2,11. Dead to sin means we are no longer a slave to sin, we are no longer serving sin, Romans 6:6. We no longer allow sin to reign in our body.
This doesn't mean that a Christian will ever reach a state of sinless perfection while on this earth. As long as we are in this mortal body, sins will on occasion be committed. However, the point we became dead to sin through Jesus we will never participate in a lifestyle of persistent, continual, habitual sin. We will never let sin reign over us again, we are no longer sin slaves.
Slip-ups and stumbles are likely, part of us having the Adamic nature, Jesus is faithful and just to forgive our sins if we confess them. If we go back to our evil ways slaves to sin letting sin reign over us instead of our Savior Jesus, no more forgiveness, we are again dead in sin, living in sin.
This is what my understanding is, given to me through prayer and the guidance of the Spirit of God. If we say or teach we can get to a point while in this mortal body, we will never sin again, is that not the same as you shall not surely die??? Only One has or ever will live in this flesh and did not sin. Repentance is not a one-time thing, it is how we live, our walk in the Spirit.
You took notice for a reason, all glory to God and His Holy Spirit. Christians have a bad addiction to sin! Just like any other addiction, if we don't acknowledge it and get help, we won't change, we will live in this condition until we die. If we remain a sinner, we will die as a sinner, and we will go to hell as promised in the scriptures.
In scripture below, Jesus promises the invalid that he previously healed that he should "sin no more" or something worse will happen to him!
John 5:14 "Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee."
If those who continue to tell themselves and others that we can't stop sinning, it's just like going up to that invalid that Jesus warned to "sin no more" now we would be telling him: hey we are all sinners, and none of us can ever really stop sinning. You would be stating the exact opposite of what Jesus/God just told the invalid not to do! Do you think God would approve of you telling the invalid that they can't stop sinning?
If we are saying we can't stop sinning, and telling others that they can't stop sinning, we should ask ourselves: Where is this belief/mindset that we can never stop sinning coming from? We know it isn't coming from God. 1John 3:8
I've learned the hard way it's best to not be in conflict with God or His Spirit. If he really loves us, if we sin - He can make us suffer in ways that can get our attention! If he doesn't see we are sincere about sin, a he can take our life, and soul, and put us in hell. I fear God, as we all should, and I offer this to you to help you. Better to say it's hard to stop sinning, but not impossible. God tells us all things are possible if you have faith as a mustard seed Matt 17:20 With God nothing is impossible for us!
1 John:8 "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."
He is not speaking to believers here in 1John:8 he is speaking to unbelievers! He is hoping to gain new converts to fellowship with as you will see if you read the proceeding verses like 1 John 1:3 "That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ."
Read on my friend. As believers we should be already be walking in truth 1 John 2:4 "He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."
1 John 2:6
"He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked."
1 John 3:6
"Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him."
As Christians we should stop telling ourselves and others that we can never stop sinning. This is a defeatist attitude and comes not from Jesus or God. In many places Jesus tells us nothing is impossible if we have Faith!
John is speaking to believers who are in the progressional stages of "sanctification of the Spirit unto obedience & sprinkling of the Blood of Jesus". they're learning & putting on Christ in ever increasing measures, yet they have not yet attain to the baptismal of Christ were self is crucified & they are "dead unto sin" but are in the working out of their salvation with fear & trembling, revealing the true fear of the Lord is working within their hearts, to depart from all evil.
In this ever increasing measures of growth in Christ/Grace/Light/Spirit 1John 1:8 is refer too, John commands them to 1John 2:1 keep repenting, remaining tender to the motions of His Spirit, with a heart devoted to the fear of the Lord until the appointed time of the Father when we are baptize with the baptismal of Christ, " thoroughly purged". We having experientially learnt the struggles of Rom 6 & 7 and have been brought to Rom 8:1,2 & their is no condemnation because His Word has
Isa 55:11, go & sin no more, we have been brought through 1Pet 5:10 in Christ, born again of the Incorruptible Seed & thus become incorruptible too, by the Cross/ Spirit / Grace / Light shining in our hearts & received John 1:12
through all these experiences in the working out of our salvation & in our continuing to perfecting of holiness in the love & fear of God, ever growing in Grace, we can say with John, 1John 1:1-3
Thanks for you your input here regarding the ongoing topic of sin. You may in fact agree with Jessie regarding the scripture 1John:1-10 being directed at believers, but I will continue to believe that John is speaking to unbelievers/possible new converts, unless you can show me in scripture that I'm in error.
John is referring to (We) and (Them) a lot. Who is the We? Who is the Them? I believe if we breakdown the scripture we will know who these (2) groups are that he is referring to. These (2) two groups are not alike. One group is nothing like the other group. Indeed, the people in one group are the exact opposite of what the Bible describes as a Christian.
1John 1:3 (unbelievers) They do not have fellowship with us as we have with God.
We Christians: We have fellowship with Christ and all of the members of His Body. 1Cor 1:9 and 1John 1:7
1John 1:5 (unbelievers) They need to hear the message that John has heard.
We Christians: We have heard the message and have believed. Romans 10:17
1John 1:6 (unbelievers) They lie and do not live by the truth.
We Christians: We have already met the Truth and we walk by the Truth. John 14:62John 1:4
1John 1:7 (unbelievers) They need to be purified from all sin.
We Christians: We have been purified from all sin. Heb 10:10
1John 1:8 (unbelievers) They are deceived.
We Christians: We are filled with the Spirit of Truth. John 14:17
1John 1:9 (unbelievers) They need to be purified from all unrighteousness.
We Christians: We have received the gift of forgiveness, and have been made righteous. 1Cor 6:11. Eph 1:7
1John 1:10 (unbelievers) They are calling God a liar.
We Christians: We agree with God. Romans 10:9-13
1John 1:10 (unbelievers) God's word has no place in their lives.
I just wanted to let you know that it was not anything I posted that FrankieJ agreed to. There is a user that goes by Jesse A. This is not me. I only post as Jesse. I'm just sending this out so you and others do not think that Jesse A is me.
1John 1:41John 2:3 they're learning to know Him & are experiencing a measure of His joy & he encourages them to continue, that their joy made be full as they grow toward being born again of the of the Spirit by the Incorruptible Seed---unbeliever doesn't know this
1John 1:7 an unbeliever does not walk in the Light
1John 2:1 He calls them his little children, new converts
Would he call unbelievers, his little children?
1John 2:7 he calls them his brethren
1John 2:8 because the darkness is pass & the true Light now shines "past tense" they're believers working out their salvation
1John 2:12 calling them little children again, their past sins having been forgiven
1John 2:13 describing the progressional work of sanctification of the Spirit unto obedience, from children, to young men, to fathers
1John 2:21 but because you know it, they're believers
1John 2:27 they have received the Anointing, must be believers,
1John 3:1-3 revealing again God's love to His own, they have this hope in the working out of the washing of regeneration & renewing in the Holy Spirt unto the new creature ,to be pure, even as He is pure
Dan; the whole epistle is full of this, you mention unbelievers needs to be cleanse, yes, but so does new believers as they grow in Grace, learning to pick up the cross & deny self & learn, know & put on Christ.
once we come to be believers in the Light, then the work of sanctification of the Spirit unto obedience begins, for example;
Just look at our own lives, we both believe & as we continue to walk in the Light, learning Him in which in this learning of Him we fall many times, yet we continue, step by step He cleanses us, eventually overcoming all sin, thoroughly purge, & are baptize by Christ, become dead unto sin, the born again experience. This is what John is revealing to His little children.
Thanks for your response and sharing your understanding of this scripture. I will continue to pray, study and research this as I want to keep an open mind. There has been some controversy over the years regarding exactly when, who and where the letters of 1John were presented, and to whom. Most agree, the letters would have been presented to wide gatherings of people in multiple places, which in all probability could include large audiences of not only believers, but also unbelievers.
It makes sense that John may have wanted to reach out and provide his messages to as many people as possible.
With that said, I was only commenting on 1 John verses 1-10, and as I read and understand these 10 verses, I still believe John was reaching out to the unsaved/nonbelievers in these particular verses. Not to dissect each verse I will present a key verse that sways me in my current understanding.
1 John 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ."
John says that which we (Christians) have seen and heard we declare unto you (Christians already know this, he must be reaching out to others) John goes on to say: that ye also may have fellowship with us (Christians are already in fellowship, he is speaking to others that are not currently in fellowship) John then says: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ (Existing Christians would already be in fellowship with the these entities)
I do agree the remaining chapters in 1 John 2,3,4 and 5 were directed at existing Christians.
1John 1:3 John was speaking on the other side of the baptizmal of the Christ, he knew in power of being dead unto sin,
& the power of the resurrection of Christ within Him, joining Him to Christ & the Father John 17:21-24 in a consummate intimate fellowship which he explains to His children "that your joy maybe full, which they had & are experiencing in a measure; as they continue in the working out of their salvation, steadfast & confident unto the end.
We ourselve experience an increase in joy of this fellowship as He takes away our sin, & we don't return to them. His Presence increases in our lives, receving more of His Spirit by the hearing & obedience of Faith, which gives & increases us in what John say later "an understanding" 1John 5:20 & a part of this understanding is Philippians 4:13 which we have received.
Could non-believers read this epistles & become believers, of course; Mark 9:23 This is the heart of God Isa 49:6Acts 13:47
Sorry for the late reply.Thanks again for your encouraging words, and your thoughtful comments regarding the scripture in 1John.
Thank you for your time, insight, and testimony that you've shared in all your posts here. You have reminded us all about our Journey and the continued growth that God expects from us, if we are to truly become one with Jesus/God through the following of His Holy Sprit, and eventually actually having that vial taken away, so we can really see! 2 Corinthians 3:16
You also hit home a great point in your statement: "We ourselves experience an increase in joy of this fellowship as He takes away our sin, & we don't return to them." I agree wholeheartedly, and one major point in order for our growth is the continued focus on Not continuing to return to sin!
do you perceive what the Holy Spirit of Truth is revealing here?
Hebrews 6:1
therefore leaving the doctrines of Christ---not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works. meaning sinning & repenting as a way of a Christian life
one of these doctrines was that of baptisms, its in the plural form, He's distinguishing from John's, which was only a type & shadow of Christ baptism. John only reach to the cleansing of the flesh, symbolic of the ritual cleansing of the Jewish law, which he was under.
Christ, the Substance brought the better things to come, the baptism that John point to & desired, it reaches to the heart, the center & seat of our very being. Hebrews 9:14
Cleansing out the seeds of the evil one. Hebrews 10:22 evil conscience--his presence must be there Mark 7:21
Thus, Holy Spirit is revealing there's Ephesians 4:5 that's required to reach to this state of perfection were we sin no more.
Friends, as I lay here, after responding to bro Dan last thread, I continue to feel the springs from the Fountain of Life bubbling up within me, my cup is running over, so I added then added again to that which I received,
Come on; Zechariah 13:1Isa 55:1-4 the Grace of God/ Light Rev 22:17
lets us Micah 4:2 the Jerusalem Gal 4:26 in Spirit & in Truth
concerning the power of the resurrection of Christ within us, Paul reveals this when stating "not I but Christ lives in me"
the Father had prepared another body for His Son to live & move & have His being in, & where Christ goes He brings His Father with Him, John 14:23
Folks,
this is the abundant life that Christ came to bring us, Life behind the veil, the Holy of Holies, there is no sin or sinning in His dwelling, which dwelling place is within our hearts. 1Cor 3:16,17
the Corithians hadn't not reach the baptizmal of Christ, yet they were believers & were living in a measure of the Grace of God. Holy Spirit had strong extortations toward them to stop living in the flesh, the veil. though they did not lack behind in many of the graces of God.
indicating, we must press on to perfection Hebrews 6:1
I will just ask one question and you can answer it to yourself. Can you say and confess from the day you accepted Jesus as your Savior and was baptized you have not committed any sin? Is that true? If you cannot answer yes, it is true I have not committed any sin since I accepted Jesus as your Savior and was baptized, your debate is fruitless.
Hi Ronald , I do wonder sometimes if maybe we are not all on the same page regarding what sin actually is . I think maybe some people might think that if they keep the ten commandments that means they haven't sinned . Sin is anything that is in opposition to God's Will . If we read Numbers Ch 15 , two things stand out to me , one is that ignorance of God's Will is no excuse for disobeying it and secondly , the soul that doeth ought presumptuously this is iniquity / or rather sin . This is a huge blanket that we are all under :) . Also , every time I read the book of James I am instantly conscious of my sinfulness , he does it to me every time :) . So I wonder if maybe that's the problem , Jesus tells us to despise no man , seriously , none of us have ever had nasty thoughts about anyone else ever ? Not necessarily without provocation but even with provocation , to think badly of anyone for any reason is considered a sin . I am definitely a sinner , I try hard every day and I fail every day . Only Jesus was able to live in the flesh without ever sinning . That's one of the reasons why he is so special and we , are not :) . Sin and death , the two great levellers of the human race .
The overriding scriptural message is asking us to Repent. I question whether many Christians today really understand what repent means.
Acts 2:38 "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."
Romans 8:8 "So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God."
Romans 8:9 "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his."
Meaning of the word Repent.
Verb:
1: to turn from sin and dedicate oneself to the amendment of one's life
2: to feel regret or contrition
b: to change one's mind
transitive verb
1: to cause to feel regret or contrition
2: to feel sorrow, regret, or contrition for
I continue to hear Christians on this site, and elsewhere telling themselves and everyone else that they will always sin. They have accepted that as long as they live, they will always be sinners. This thinking/mindset comes directly from satan, who else would encourage you to think this way, which is totally against scripture.
Romans 6:6 "Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin."
1 John 3:6 "Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him."
Living in sin - does not meet the expectation of God for us to REPENT!
Living in sin yourself is one thing, telling others that they can never stop sinning is another. Thinking like this and speaking like this is not very encouraging to yourself, or others. Something to think about.
Happy Sabbath Day
You did not address this directly with me, but I felt it. This is not to debate it with you. I know in my heart nothing I have posted comes from Satan. There is a difference between, we sin, and we serve sin, dead in or dead to.
Ephesians 2:1:4 When we are born, we are born dead in trespasses and sins, and we remain in that spiritually dead state until we believe in faith Jesus as our savior and are baptized for the remission of our sins, at that moment we who were dead in sin are made spiritually alive in Jesus, Ephesians 2:5.
We confess to now be dead to sin and the old way of living and walk in the newness of life found in following Jesus, Romans 6:1-4. We are dead to sin and alive to God and we have a new walk, Romans 6:2,11. Dead to sin means we are no longer a slave to sin, we are no longer serving sin, Romans 6:6. We no longer allow sin to reign in our body.
This doesn't mean that a Christian will ever reach a state of sinless perfection while on this earth. As long as we are in this mortal body, sins will on occasion be committed. However, the point we became dead to sin through Jesus we will never participate in a lifestyle of persistent, continual, habitual sin. We will never let sin reign over us again, we are no longer sin slaves.
Slip-ups and stumbles are likely, part of us having the Adamic nature, Jesus is faithful and just to forgive our sins if we confess them. If we go back to our evil ways slaves to sin letting sin reign over us instead of our Savior Jesus, no more forgiveness, we are again dead in sin, living in sin.
This is what my understanding is, given to me through prayer and the guidance of the Spirit of God. If we say or teach we can get to a point while in this mortal body, we will never sin again, is that not the same as you shall not surely die??? Only One has or ever will live in this flesh and did not sin. Repentance is not a one-time thing, it is how we live, our walk in the Spirit.
God bless,
RLW
You took notice for a reason, all glory to God and His Holy Spirit. Christians have a bad addiction to sin! Just like any other addiction, if we don't acknowledge it and get help, we won't change, we will live in this condition until we die. If we remain a sinner, we will die as a sinner, and we will go to hell as promised in the scriptures.
In scripture below, Jesus promises the invalid that he previously healed that he should "sin no more" or something worse will happen to him!
John 5:14 "Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee."
If those who continue to tell themselves and others that we can't stop sinning, it's just like going up to that invalid that Jesus warned to "sin no more" now we would be telling him: hey we are all sinners, and none of us can ever really stop sinning. You would be stating the exact opposite of what Jesus/God just told the invalid not to do! Do you think God would approve of you telling the invalid that they can't stop sinning?
If we are saying we can't stop sinning, and telling others that they can't stop sinning, we should ask ourselves: Where is this belief/mindset that we can never stop sinning coming from? We know it isn't coming from God. 1John 3:8
I've learned the hard way it's best to not be in conflict with God or His Spirit. If he really loves us, if we sin - He can make us suffer in ways that can get our attention! If he doesn't see we are sincere about sin, a he can take our life, and soul, and put us in hell. I fear God, as we all should, and I offer this to you to help you. Better to say it's hard to stop sinning, but not impossible. God tells us all things are possible if you have faith as a mustard seed Matt 17:20 With God nothing is impossible for us!
Read and Believe
He is not speaking to believers here in 1John:8 he is speaking to unbelievers! He is hoping to gain new converts to fellowship with as you will see if you read the proceeding verses like 1 John 1:3 "That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ."
Read on my friend. As believers we should be already be walking in truth 1 John 2:4 "He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."
1 John 2:6
"He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked."
1 John 3:6
"Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him."
As Christians we should stop telling ourselves and others that we can never stop sinning. This is a defeatist attitude and comes not from Jesus or God. In many places Jesus tells us nothing is impossible if we have Faith!
Read and Believe
Jesse A, is right,
John is speaking to believers who are in the progressional stages of "sanctification of the Spirit unto obedience & sprinkling of the Blood of Jesus". they're learning & putting on Christ in ever increasing measures, yet they have not yet attain to the baptismal of Christ were self is crucified & they are "dead unto sin" but are in the working out of their salvation with fear & trembling, revealing the true fear of the Lord is working within their hearts, to depart from all evil.
In this ever increasing measures of growth in Christ/Grace/Light/Spirit 1John 1:8 is refer too, John commands them to 1John 2:1 keep repenting, remaining tender to the motions of His Spirit, with a heart devoted to the fear of the Lord until the appointed time of the Father when we are baptize with the baptismal of Christ, " thoroughly purged". We having experientially learnt the struggles of Rom 6 & 7 and have been brought to Rom 8:1,2 & their is no condemnation because His Word has
Isa 55:11, go & sin no more, we have been brought through 1Pet 5:10 in Christ, born again of the Incorruptible Seed & thus become incorruptible too, by the Cross/ Spirit / Grace / Light shining in our hearts & received John 1:12
through all these experiences in the working out of our salvation & in our continuing to perfecting of holiness in the love & fear of God, ever growing in Grace, we can say with John, 1John 1:1-3
Oh, praise the Lord, Psalms 62:5 Proverbs 23:18
2 Timothy 2:19 Psalms 93:5 " who houses we are"
the LORD, strengthen & encourage you
Thanks for you your input here regarding the ongoing topic of sin. You may in fact agree with Jessie regarding the scripture 1John:1-10 being directed at believers, but I will continue to believe that John is speaking to unbelievers/possible new converts, unless you can show me in scripture that I'm in error.
John is referring to (We) and (Them) a lot. Who is the We? Who is the Them? I believe if we breakdown the scripture we will know who these (2) groups are that he is referring to. These (2) two groups are not alike. One group is nothing like the other group. Indeed, the people in one group are the exact opposite of what the Bible describes as a Christian.
1John 1:3 (unbelievers) They do not have fellowship with us as we have with God.
We Christians: We have fellowship with Christ and all of the members of His Body. 1Cor 1:9 and 1John 1:7
1John 1:5 (unbelievers) They need to hear the message that John has heard.
We Christians: We have heard the message and have believed. Romans 10:17
1John 1:6 (unbelievers) They lie and do not live by the truth.
We Christians: We have already met the Truth and we walk by the Truth. John 14:6 2John 1:4
1John 1:7 (unbelievers) They need to be purified from all sin.
We Christians: We have been purified from all sin. Heb 10:10
1John 1:8 (unbelievers) They are deceived.
We Christians: We are filled with the Spirit of Truth. John 14:17
1John 1:9 (unbelievers) They need to be purified from all unrighteousness.
We Christians: We have received the gift of forgiveness, and have been made righteous. 1Cor 6:11. Eph 1:7
1John 1:10 (unbelievers) They are calling God a liar.
We Christians: We agree with God. Romans 10:9-13
1John 1:10 (unbelievers) God's word has no place in their lives.
We Christians: God's word lives in us. 1Thes 2:13
Hope this helps.
GBU
I just wanted to let you know that it was not anything I posted that FrankieJ agreed to. There is a user that goes by Jesse A. This is not me. I only post as Jesse. I'm just sending this out so you and others do not think that Jesse A is me.
Thanks brother,
Jesse
Thanks my friend, I'm glad you clarified this.
I will now make it a point to pay more attention to the posters name.
GBU
Lets look at what John says
In the context of what I previously wrote to you,
1John 1:4 1John 2:3 they're learning to know Him & are experiencing a measure of His joy & he encourages them to continue, that their joy made be full as they grow toward being born again of the of the Spirit by the Incorruptible Seed---unbeliever doesn't know this
1John 1:7 an unbeliever does not walk in the Light
1John 2:1 He calls them his little children, new converts
Would he call unbelievers, his little children?
1John 2:7 he calls them his brethren
1John 2:8 because the darkness is pass & the true Light now shines "past tense" they're believers working out their salvation
1John 2:12 calling them little children again, their past sins having been forgiven
1John 2:13 describing the progressional work of sanctification of the Spirit unto obedience, from children, to young men, to fathers
1John 2:21 but because you know it, they're believers
1John 2:27 they have received the Anointing, must be believers,
1John 3:1-3 revealing again God's love to His own, they have this hope in the working out of the washing of regeneration & renewing in the Holy Spirt unto the new creature ,to be pure, even as He is pure
Dan; the whole epistle is full of this, you mention unbelievers needs to be cleanse, yes, but so does new believers as they grow in Grace, learning to pick up the cross & deny self & learn, know & put on Christ.
once we come to be believers in the Light, then the work of sanctification of the Spirit unto obedience begins, for example;
Just look at our own lives, we both believe & as we continue to walk in the Light, learning Him in which in this learning of Him we fall many times, yet we continue, step by step He cleanses us, eventually overcoming all sin, thoroughly purge, & are baptize by Christ, become dead unto sin, the born again experience. This is what John is revealing to His little children.
An unbeliever does not know this,
Hope this clears the mist
Thanks for your response and sharing your understanding of this scripture. I will continue to pray, study and research this as I want to keep an open mind. There has been some controversy over the years regarding exactly when, who and where the letters of 1John were presented, and to whom. Most agree, the letters would have been presented to wide gatherings of people in multiple places, which in all probability could include large audiences of not only believers, but also unbelievers.
It makes sense that John may have wanted to reach out and provide his messages to as many people as possible.
With that said, I was only commenting on 1 John verses 1-10, and as I read and understand these 10 verses, I still believe John was reaching out to the unsaved/nonbelievers in these particular verses. Not to dissect each verse I will present a key verse that sways me in my current understanding.
1 John 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ."
John says that which we (Christians) have seen and heard we declare unto you (Christians already know this, he must be reaching out to others) John goes on to say: that ye also may have fellowship with us (Christians are already in fellowship, he is speaking to others that are not currently in fellowship) John then says: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ (Existing Christians would already be in fellowship with the these entities)
I do agree the remaining chapters in 1 John 2,3,4 and 5 were directed at existing Christians.
GBU
1John 1:3 John was speaking on the other side of the baptizmal of the Christ, he knew in power of being dead unto sin,
& the power of the resurrection of Christ within Him, joining Him to Christ & the Father John 17:21-24 in a consummate intimate fellowship which he explains to His children "that your joy maybe full, which they had & are experiencing in a measure; as they continue in the working out of their salvation, steadfast & confident unto the end.
We ourselve experience an increase in joy of this fellowship as He takes away our sin, & we don't return to them. His Presence increases in our lives, receving more of His Spirit by the hearing & obedience of Faith, which gives & increases us in what John say later "an understanding" 1John 5:20 & a part of this understanding is Philippians 4:13 which we have received.
Could non-believers read this epistles & become believers, of course; Mark 9:23 This is the heart of God Isa 49:6 Acts 13:47
in love & truth
Grace be to you
Sorry for the late reply.Thanks again for your encouraging words, and your thoughtful comments regarding the scripture in 1John.
Thank you for your time, insight, and testimony that you've shared in all your posts here. You have reminded us all about our Journey and the continued growth that God expects from us, if we are to truly become one with Jesus/God through the following of His Holy Sprit, and eventually actually having that vial taken away, so we can really see! 2 Corinthians 3:16
You also hit home a great point in your statement: "We ourselves experience an increase in joy of this fellowship as He takes away our sin, & we don't return to them." I agree wholeheartedly, and one major point in order for our growth is the continued focus on Not continuing to return to sin!
Continue on my friend.
GBU
do you perceive what the Holy Spirit of Truth is revealing here?
Hebrews 6:1
therefore leaving the doctrines of Christ---not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works. meaning sinning & repenting as a way of a Christian life
one of these doctrines was that of baptisms, its in the plural form, He's distinguishing from John's, which was only a type & shadow of Christ baptism. John only reach to the cleansing of the flesh, symbolic of the ritual cleansing of the Jewish law, which he was under.
Christ, the Substance brought the better things to come, the baptism that John point to & desired, it reaches to the heart, the center & seat of our very being. Hebrews 9:14
Cleansing out the seeds of the evil one. Hebrews 10:22 evil conscience--his presence must be there Mark 7:21
Thus, Holy Spirit is revealing there's Ephesians 4:5 that's required to reach to this state of perfection were we sin no more.
Friends, as I lay here, after responding to bro Dan last thread, I continue to feel the springs from the Fountain of Life bubbling up within me, my cup is running over, so I added then added again to that which I received,
Come on; Zechariah 13:1 Isa 55:1-4 the Grace of God/ Light Rev 22:17
lets us Micah 4:2 the Jerusalem Gal 4:26 in Spirit & in Truth
in love & truth
the Father had prepared another body for His Son to live & move & have His being in, & where Christ goes He brings His Father with Him, John 14:23
Folks,
this is the abundant life that Christ came to bring us, Life behind the veil, the Holy of Holies, there is no sin or sinning in His dwelling, which dwelling place is within our hearts. 1Cor 3:16,17
the Corithians hadn't not reach the baptizmal of Christ, yet they were believers & were living in a measure of the Grace of God. Holy Spirit had strong extortations toward them to stop living in the flesh, the veil. though they did not lack behind in many of the graces of God.
indicating, we must press on to perfection Hebrews 6:1
The apostle paul references almost the same in
Roman's all chapter 7
May God bless you.
I will just ask one question and you can answer it to yourself. Can you say and confess from the day you accepted Jesus as your Savior and was baptized you have not committed any sin? Is that true? If you cannot answer yes, it is true I have not committed any sin since I accepted Jesus as your Savior and was baptized, your debate is fruitless.
No more replies on this subject.
RLW
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