Bible Discussion Thread

 
  • Jesse - 1 year ago
    The qualification of a true believer:

    Romans 8:9 reads, "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.



    But you are not in the flesh, but you are in the Spirit, (if so be) the Spirit of God dwells in you.



    There is a definition that's given to us here. It says we are in the flesh if we don't have Christ. If we are not "born again" we have an illegitimate claim at being a true believer.

    It goes on to say, "But if so be that the Spirit of God dwells in you."

    And then listen to this:

    Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ (born again), he is none of his.



    What Paul is saying here is that if a person does not have the Spirit of Christ dwelling inside of them, they don't belong to Christ.



    So what's the emphasis here? The emphasis is on what God does and how He comes into our life. If He's not there, it doesn't matter what we believe because we are not saved.

    A person must be born again or they do not belong to Christ!
  • Frankie J - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Hi Jesse

    No, not in the frame of what you're implying.

    Quoting you

    There is a definition that's given to us here. It says we are in the flesh if we don't have Christ. If we are not "born again" we have an illegitimate claim at being a true believer.

    Whereas, those who are born again do belong to Christ & has been gather unto the Gardener.

    Yet those who are in the work of sanctification of the Spirit.

    They are true believers too, & belong to Christ, having received of God the gift of faith, from hearing the Word of God in their hearts to the working out of their salvation,& by that gift of faith, they receive ever increasing measures of His Spirit Gal 3:2

    Hebrews 12:1 wherefore lay aside the sin that doth so easily beset us. They believe & are in the work of regeneration.

    Hebrews 12:4,5,6,7,8 Holy Spirit calls them His children & He's their Father, they belong to Him

    Hebrews 12:9-11 afterward it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby, & why? Because they have become partakers of His holiness, the Divine Nature

    So in the cleansing work of making holy, their growing from faith to faith & from glory to glory being brought to the baptismal of the Holy Spirit to be dead unto sin, born again of the incorruptible Seed.

    Friend,

    The path is straight & the gate is narrow indeed that leads to life & few there be that find it, for some then, its to narrow for them to enter. Yet our Leader has plainly mark the path for us, He takes us by the hand & leads us in the very same path that He Himself walked in, wherein He received of the Father all His glory, & so shall we, for all that would believe all things are possible. Isa 42:16 the just Rom 1:17

    Its not from the studying of the letter, as one would for any other endeavor, by the art of human science, but a total resolution of one spirit to empty oneself & be guided & taught of God's Spirit John 1:9 Titus 2:11 within one's own conscience. The Immanuel of God, who is within us.
  • Zaphnathpaneah - In Reply - 1 year ago
    In John chapter three ( if I'm not mistaken) Jesus is giving Nicodemus The Truth of a true born again Spirit filled believer. And in The first chapter of Johns Gospel he reveals Jesus ( The Word) as the manifest LIGHT ( KNOWLEDGE) of God who ( if we receive Him) he gives us POWER TO BECOME SONS OF GOD. NOT BORN OF THE WLL OF THE FLESH OR OF THE WILL OF MAN BUT OF GOD. (( BORN not of corruptible seed but incorruptible. THE Word of God that liveth and abideth forever
  • Jordyn - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Amen Brother Jesse!
  • Jesse - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Jordyn,

    Thank you for taking the time to read my post. Brother, I was sitting here pondering on one of your statements in this thread which you said that "One can have the Spirit of Truth working in him; yet, not yet have come to all truth."



    Makes perfect sense to me!
  • S Spencer - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Salvation there is a death and an ressurection for the TRUE believers.

    This is not done by an alter call or an profession but by the Spirit of God that searches the heart.

    Colossians 2:12

    having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead

    2 Corinthians 4:16

    Therefore we do not lose heart, but though our outer man is decaying, yet our inner man is being renewed day by day.

    2 Corinthians 5:17

    Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.

    Galatians 6:15

    For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation.

    Ephesians 2:10

    For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

    Romans 6:4

    Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.

    Colossians 3:1

    Therefore if you have been raised up with Christ, keep seeking the things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.

    Romans 7:6

    But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.

    Ephesians 4:24

    and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth.

    Life begins here as a babe in Christ,

    God bless you for this all important portion of scripture.

    If this is not gotten right nothing else matters.
  • Jordyn - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Amen Brother S Spencer!
  • S Spencer - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Well stated Brother Jesse.

    This is a rebirth for TRUE believers CAUSED by that life giving Spirit, Not by the will of man.

    And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

    But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. Romans 8:10-11.

    God bless.
  • Jesse - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Brother Spencer,

    Thank you, and yes, I agree that salvation "is not done by an alter call or an profession but by the Spirit of God that searches the heart."

    There is no formula, such as an alter call, or saying a "sinners' prayer" that guarantees salvation. To anyone reading this, please know that I am not against going up for an alter call to receive Christ or calling out to Him in prayer (sinners' prayer). I am not saying that a person cannot be saved by doing these things. What I am saying is that there is no guarantee.

    God knows the heart of every person, and a person with a sincere heart who calls out to the Lord to have mercy on them and to save them, His promise is that He will save them ( Romans 10:13). For some, salvation takes place immediately. For others, it could take a while for God to prepare a person's heart before they are ready to completely surrender their life to Him, but the promise still remains. God promises that all who call upon the name of the Lord will, not might be, but will be saved. That is a promise to anyone who calls out to Him with a sincere heart!

    Also, thank you for sharing these great scriptures which show the result of salvation.

    God Bless!!!
  • Frankie J - In Reply - 1 year ago
    hi Jesse

    Interesting statement you have concluded here.

    John say "he that is born again sins not, that he can not sin for His Seed remains within him" & in this Seed he abides & does not sin.

    so in the light of this, & your statement,

    do you have the Spirit of Christ?
  • Jesse - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Frankie J,

    I sense you are leading me in a different direction here. If I say that I have the Spirit of Christ living in me, and I stop there, I suppose you might ask me if I ever sin? If I say yes, I do sin, will you say that I am not born again?

    The scripture you are sharing with ( 1 John 3:9) reads, "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."

    Please allow me to share my understanding of this verse. First of all, the King James translators could have done a better job in their translation of the Greek text. There are some English translations that properly use the word practice, which is what the Greek text reads.

    The way the KJV translators wrote it, one might conclude that a person who is born of God does not sin at all. This is not true. A believer will still occasionally commit single acts of sin. However, a believer no longer practices sin. When I say believer, I am speaking of one who has been born of Gods Spirit.

    Many of our English translations of 1 John 3:9 have caused a lot of confusion in the church, mainly by leaving this one word (practice) out of the text. According to the Greek, it should read, "Whosoever has been born of God DOES NOT PRACTICE sin; for God's seed remains (or abides) in him: and he CANNOT PRACTICE SIN, that is, he does not have the capacity to practice sin because he has been born of God. There is a huge difference in saying "does not sin," vs "does not practice sin."

    So, to answer your question, I will tell you yes, I do have the Spirit of Christ. I am not completely free from sin, but I no longer practice sin as a lifestyle as I did before being born of Gods Spirit. If I do sin, that does not mean that I am not born again. But once I'm born of the Spirit of God, I no longer have the capacity to continue to satisfy a lifestyle of sin. It is impossible!

    If I may ask, are you in disagreement on what I shared on Romans 8:9?
  • Frankie J - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Jesse

    Lets look to the Spirit which inspired the Holy Scriptures for our understanding of them. 1Cor 2:13

    1John 2:1,2 He calls them little children, because they're still sinning, then commands them to sin not & if they do in the progresses work of sanctification of the Spirit unto obedience & sprinkling of the Blood/Life of Jesus in their conformity to Christ, they have an Advocate with the Father. He then leads the children ever so gently 1John 2:3-6 distinguishing how to know if we know Him, who is True & its by those who "Keep His commandments" & those who do not is a liar & to those who do Keep His commandments, in them verily is the love of God perfected in them, "to walk even as He walk" that would be without sin!

    1John 3:2,3 does this not say all that has this hope, we will be like Him, pure as He is pure

    1John 3:4,5 how can we be in Him & continue to sin in the least, in Whom there is no darkness at all

    1John 5:18 What does this implies, except that they don't sin.

    Rom 6:1,2,6, it speaks expressively the intent of God's heart. Holy Spirit seals it by repeats in twice

    Rom 6:12-15 if one sins in the least, the devil is still a prince & has dominion over him.

    Jesse,

    Adam was created in God image & likeness, sinless, this we all acknowledge

    When he sinned, he became a degenerative plant & God cast him out of His Presence. Look at what appears to be just a small thing in our human thoughts, "partaking of the forbidden fruit". "disobedience to God's commandment" Which has brought all the misery that humanity has experience since then to this day.

    If one is born again & is a new creature in Christ Hebrews 10:10,28,29 sanctified once & for all,{past tense}

    Col 1:22 & then sin, would that not plunges us back into the condition of Adam's' transgression?

    In the Spirit of these Scriptures,

    I tell you that he that is born again does not sin & he that is born again does not practice sin means the same thing.

    a answer on Rom 8:9 will be forth coming.
  • Jesse - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Frankie J,

    How do you come to the conclusion that John calls them "little children" because they're still sinning? Do you have anything concrete that tells us this is the reason he calls them that? I myself do not know why John calls them little children, but if I had to guess, I would say that it shows his age, that he's elder, and that all of these believers are like his children. And that's how he treats them and that's how he approaches them.

    1 John 2:6, the phrase "to walk, even as he walked" does not imply that we can walk without sin the same as Jesus walked. If that's what you are saying, then I disagree. What this is saying is that he that says he abides (remains) in Him, ought (or more literally), is indebted himself also to walk, even as he walked.

    Please notice these comparisons:

    If God is light and God is in me, when I walk, I'm walking in the light. Why? Because He's light and He's in me. If I am in Christ (if Christ abides in me and I in Him), then I should walk as He walks. How? Because he's inside of me, and His Spirit is going to direct my steps. I don't always in the human perfectly follow. But he's going to show that in the believer's life, they are indebted to walk the same way Christ walked. Why? Because Christ is living inside of them. How are you going to walk differently?

    Finally, you're telling me that "he that is born again does not sin & he that is born again does not practice sin means the same thing," but the only way I can agree with you on this is to also believe that a person who is born again will never sin and can live a completely sinless life.
  • Frankie J - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Well, Jesse

    Holy Spirt states 1John 2:1 children do not sin, & if you do. Indicating their state

    Then in 1John 2:12-14 Holy Spirit distinguishes the maturity of the believers, as children who sins are forgiven for His name sake, the young men who have overcome the wicked one & the fathers that have known Him from the beginning, each according to the measure of the Spirit they received in their growth in Christ.

    1Pet 5:1 Peter here makes a distinction, in exhorting the elders that are among them

    1John 2:6

    Your wrong it does imply this, as plenty of Scriptures confirms this.

    Rom 8:29, conformed to the image of His Son,

    1John 3:3 pure as He is pure

    Gal 2:20 not I but Christ lives in me, only the pure in heart see & experience this on the spiritual level Paul is speaking from here.

    we think, talk & walk as He did. 1Cor 2:16 we have the mind of Christ. Philippians 2:5

    2Pet 1:3 freely has given us all things,

    Luke 10:19 He's not talking about physically hurt here, as the Scriptures give witness too.

    Luke 12:5 & that fear is to depart from evil, sin along can hurt us.

    Col 3:10 Ephesians 4:23,24 the renewing of our minds in the knowledge after the image of Him that created him,

    "the new man", is the work of Sanctification of the Spirit, bringing us into ever increasing measures of growth to maturity in Christ, the divine nature, fruits of the Spirit & ultimately being born again of the Incorruptible Seed,

    your comparisons paragraph

    you end with "how are you going to walk differently? You answered your own question

    quoting you "I DON'T always in the human perfectly follow" one's not abiding in the Vine & according to this Scriptural statement, one has transgress against the Light, which the Spirit declares in the contest of these Scriptures is that one is still a child, for the young men have overcome the wicked one & the fathers have likewise.

    Last par; Yes, this is the heart of the Father in sending His Son, Christ being the first born among many brethern
  • Jesse - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Frankie J,

    Again, I go back to 1 John 3:9 and I share with you the literal translation:

    Whosoever has been born of God DOES NOT PRACTICE sin; for God's seed remains (or abides) in him: and he CANNOT PRACTICE SIN, that is, he does not have the capacity to practice sin because he has been born of God.

    This is not saying that a person who has been born of God will never sin. And this is in no way telling us that we are sinless as Jesus was.

    Let me ask you:

    Do you consider yourself a sinner?

    Are you pure the same as Jesus was pure?

    Are you walking without sin the same as Jesus walked?

    Now, if I may quote you, you said, "If one is born again & is a new creature in Christ Hebrews 10:10,28,29 sanctified once & for all,{past tense} Col 1:22 & then sin, would that not plunges us back into the condition of Adam's' transgression?"

    A few days ago in one of your posts, you told someone that you have not yet been born again, so how would you answer this?

    If you are not yet born again (as you say), then you are still living in your sin, and until you surrender your life to Christ, and are born from above, you will die in your sin.

    I only say this out of concern for your spiritual welfare since you yourself said you have not yet been born again.
  • Jordyn - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Brother Frankie J:

    One can have the Spirit of Truth working IN HIM; yet, NOT YET have come to ALL TRUTH.

    The Spirit of Truth WILL NOT FAIL, but it is God's appointed time to each one of us.

    Isaiah 27:12 ..... and I WILL gather you ONE by ONE, Oh children (the promised SEED) of Israel.

    God BLESS YOU as HE CAUSES us to walk in the TRUTH and LIFE of Christ, being DEAD to SELF by the WORKS of Christ cross and resurrection.
  • Frankie J - In Reply - 1 year ago
    I agree with what you have spoken, how else would one come to Christ: John 6:44,65 & that by His Spirit John 1:9 Titus 2:11

    But I don't agree with what Jesse implying, its unscriptural, against sound reasoning & Christ Spirit bears witness against it in my heart.



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