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2. The 2nd heaven is the space outside the atmosphere, the universe, the galaxies.
3. The 3rd heaven is what exists outside of our universe, which is the place where God and the angels reside, where the heavenly Temple is, the Throne of the God, the Paradise etc. Paul went there, he saw the Paradise.
Now the Septuagint text unlike the Masoretic says heaven in both Genesis 1 and 2. And you should know that in both Hebrew and Greek heaven and sky is the same word.
By the Word of GOD - the Word is GOD - self-executing, heavens are celestial environments in Christ that have nothing, but nothing, with the material space of Universe. You are confounding Heaven with Sky, so your interpretion of the Word of GOD is merely a materialist interpretation. Terrible, very terrible. By your words, you have knowledge only of sky, but have not knowledge of Heaven. Your thinking is from HUMAN perspective, a stumblingblock, not from GOD's perspective.
JESUS took Peter and John and James, and went up into a mountain to pray, Moses and Elijah came to speak with JESUS, but both did not do any travel through your materialist sky of course. Luke 9:29-36:
29 And as JESUS prayed, the fashion of His countenance was altered, and His raiment was white and glistering.
30 And, behold, there talked with Him two men, which were Moses and Elijah:
32 But Peter and they that were with him were heavy with sleep: and when they were awake, they saw His glory, and the two MEN that stood with JESUS.
33 And it came to pass, as they departed from JESUS, Peter said unto Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elijah: not knowing what he said.
34 While he thus spake, there came a CLOUD(the same CLOUD of Exodus 24:15-16, understand?), and overshadowed them: and they feared as they entered into the CLOUD.
35 And there came a voice out of the CLOUD, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear Him.
36 And when the voice was past, JESUS was found alone. And they kept it close, and told no man in those days any of those things which they had seen.
Yes, Giannis; Moses and Elijah came to speak with JESUS, but both did not do any travel through your materialist sky of course.
Heaven is not Sky.
17 Seventy returned with joy, saying: Lord, even the demons are subject unto us through thy name.
18 JESUS said unto them: I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. (not from Sky)
The following verse shows clearly what the ancient people believed it was universe, " "And every creature which is in heaven(sky), and on the earth(land), and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them,... "
2. My belief is that the Word is not literally the person God. But when God says a word, an order, a command, that is done. Not like doing magic, but it is the Spirit who brings in existence all that He commands.
3. Moses and Elijah appeared on that mountain talking to Jesus. Did they have to travel through the universe to be brought there? Here there maybe 2 cases.
a. Yes, with the speed of Spirit, ie in a split second,
b. No, since before Jesus' resurrection all people were down the deepest of earth, inside Hades, the righteous in Abraham's bosom and the unrighteous in Hell. So they were brought from underneath. Unless the position of Hades in the deepest of earth is something figurative and not literal and Hades exists somewhere else.
1. As I said before in Hebrew heaven and sky is the same word. Brother Ronald wrote a very good comment explaining that.
Now to understand what ancient people meant with heaven/sky we have to understand what they considered of universe at those times. When they looked around them all they could see was a land that was flat. They didn't know anything about planets, their shape, etc. They didn't know how long and wide that land was, some thought it was limitless, some thought after that imaginary limit only chaos exists, others that it was supported by some sort of foundations, etc. In Bible it says the 4 corners of earth, thus including every land (in Hbr and grk earth and land is the same word). When they looked up to the sky they saw a blue thing, the sky, with some lights (the sun, the moon, the stars) moving along and across the sky, in a circular mode, so they assumed there was something like a solid dome. They didn't know anything about planets, stars, they thought those were some sort of lights, as I said. They didn't know how far those lights were from the land, so they placed them at the edge of the sky. They had no idea what exists after the sky, like a place with no air, no gravity, etc. That was their universe, the land and the sky up. So when they used to read Genesis about the creation, the phrase "God created the earth/land and the sky/heaven" for them it was the whole universe. Just that, the land and the sky. They imagined that God should live in a place further away than that sky/heaven, so they placed God's residence somewhere above that dome. Today we say after the universe as we know it today, and this seems to be write, unless someome believes that God's spiritual world exists inside the universe but can not be seen. This is what they meant with the word "heaven", everything that was above the land they were walking on. They didn't distinguish between the material and the spiritual world. Heaven for themwas just the sky above
Giannis, and Wkrimes, and other readers who participate in Biblical Studies here
Then,Giannis,you remain in your speculative and ficticious interpretation of the things which the own GOD REVEALED to Moses around 2500 years after Adam or around 1500 years BC,or exactly two Days and half of works, according GOD revealed to Moses and he wrote in GENESIS 1:3 to 13.TAKE A LOOK. Actually, the one whom GOD has sent speaks the Words of GOD, like Moses, and the prophets, and the apostles of JESUS,for GOD gives the Spirit without limit, and above all GOD sent my Lord JESUS himself, through whom GOD made all things,understand?
That said, your thinking is from a human perspective, a stumblingblock, not from GOD's perspective. In fact, the person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of GOD but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit, undeerstand? He who has the Spirit makes Judgments about all things, but such a person is not subject to merely human judgment.
In fact, the one who is from the earth belongs to the earth, and speaks as one from the earth.It's that. But the one who is of heaven is above all( Ephesians 1:3 combined with Philippians 3:20-21,among other Scriptures)for he testifies to what he has seen and heard, but no one accepts his testimony, but whoever has accepted it has certified that GOD is Truthful.For the one whom GOD has sent speaks the Words of GOD,for GOD gives the Spirit without limit.
Hebrews 4:12-13
12The Word of GOD is quick-the Word is GOD,SELF-EXECUTING,understand?-,and powerful,and sharper than any twoedged Sword,piercing even to the dividing asunder of SOUL and SPIRIT,and of the joints and marrow,and is a DISCERNER of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
13Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in His sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of Him with whom we must render an account.
Some interprete the 3 heavens as:
1. The 1st heaven is the atmosphere of the earth.
2. The 2nd heaven is the space outside the atmosphere, the universe, the galaxies.
3. The 3rd heaven is what exists outside of our universe, which is the place where God and the angels reside, where the heavenly Temple is, the Throne of the God, the Paradise etc. Paul went there, he saw the Paradise.
Now the Septuagint text unlike the Masoretic says heaven in both Genesis 1 and 2. And you should know that in both Hebrew and Greek heaven and sky is the same word.
By the Word of GOD - the Word is GOD - self-executing, heavens are celestial environments in Christ that have nothing, but nothing, with the material space of Universe. You are confounding Heaven with Sky, so your interpretion of the Word of GOD is merely a materialist interpretation. Terrible, very terrible. By your words, you have knowledge only of sky, but have not knowledge of Heaven. Your thinking is from HUMAN perspective, a stumblingblock, not from GOD's perspective.
JESUS took Peter and John and James, and went up into a mountain to pray, Moses and Elijah came to speak with JESUS, but both did not do any travel through your materialist sky of course. Luke 9:29-36:
29 And as JESUS prayed, the fashion of His countenance was altered, and His raiment was white and glistering.
30 And, behold, there talked with Him two men, which were Moses and Elijah:
32 But Peter and they that were with him were heavy with sleep: and when they were awake, they saw His glory, and the two MEN that stood with JESUS.
33 And it came to pass, as they departed from JESUS, Peter said unto Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elijah: not knowing what he said.
34 While he thus spake, there came a CLOUD(the same CLOUD of Exodus 24:15-16, understand?), and overshadowed them: and they feared as they entered into the CLOUD.
35 And there came a voice out of the CLOUD, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear Him.
36 And when the voice was past, JESUS was found alone. And they kept it close, and told no man in those days any of those things which they had seen.
Yes, Giannis; Moses and Elijah came to speak with JESUS, but both did not do any travel through your materialist sky of course.
Heaven is not Sky.
17 Seventy returned with joy, saying: Lord, even the demons are subject unto us through thy name.
18 JESUS said unto them: I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. (not from Sky)
I have a couple of questions so I can understand your comments better.
Where were the Old Testament saints before Christ resurrection?
Were the Old Testament saints resurrected with Christ?
God Bless YOU!
The following verse shows clearly what the ancient people believed it was universe, " "And every creature which is in heaven(sky), and on the earth(land), and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them,... "
2. My belief is that the Word is not literally the person God. But when God says a word, an order, a command, that is done. Not like doing magic, but it is the Spirit who brings in existence all that He commands.
3. Moses and Elijah appeared on that mountain talking to Jesus. Did they have to travel through the universe to be brought there? Here there maybe 2 cases.
a. Yes, with the speed of Spirit, ie in a split second,
b. No, since before Jesus' resurrection all people were down the deepest of earth, inside Hades, the righteous in Abraham's bosom and the unrighteous in Hell. So they were brought from underneath. Unless the position of Hades in the deepest of earth is something figurative and not literal and Hades exists somewhere else.
This is how I see those brother.
Blessings and wish you a blessed week.
[Comment Removed]
1. As I said before in Hebrew heaven and sky is the same word. Brother Ronald wrote a very good comment explaining that.
Now to understand what ancient people meant with heaven/sky we have to understand what they considered of universe at those times. When they looked around them all they could see was a land that was flat. They didn't know anything about planets, their shape, etc. They didn't know how long and wide that land was, some thought it was limitless, some thought after that imaginary limit only chaos exists, others that it was supported by some sort of foundations, etc. In Bible it says the 4 corners of earth, thus including every land (in Hbr and grk earth and land is the same word). When they looked up to the sky they saw a blue thing, the sky, with some lights (the sun, the moon, the stars) moving along and across the sky, in a circular mode, so they assumed there was something like a solid dome. They didn't know anything about planets, stars, they thought those were some sort of lights, as I said. They didn't know how far those lights were from the land, so they placed them at the edge of the sky. They had no idea what exists after the sky, like a place with no air, no gravity, etc. That was their universe, the land and the sky up. So when they used to read Genesis about the creation, the phrase "God created the earth/land and the sky/heaven" for them it was the whole universe. Just that, the land and the sky. They imagined that God should live in a place further away than that sky/heaven, so they placed God's residence somewhere above that dome. Today we say after the universe as we know it today, and this seems to be write, unless someome believes that God's spiritual world exists inside the universe but can not be seen. This is what they meant with the word "heaven", everything that was above the land they were walking on. They didn't distinguish between the material and the spiritual world. Heaven for themwas just the sky above
Then,Giannis,you remain in your speculative and ficticious interpretation of the things which the own GOD REVEALED to Moses around 2500 years after Adam or around 1500 years BC,or exactly two Days and half of works, according GOD revealed to Moses and he wrote in GENESIS 1:3 to 13.TAKE A LOOK. Actually, the one whom GOD has sent speaks the Words of GOD, like Moses, and the prophets, and the apostles of JESUS,for GOD gives the Spirit without limit, and above all GOD sent my Lord JESUS himself, through whom GOD made all things,understand?
That said, your thinking is from a human perspective, a stumblingblock, not from GOD's perspective. In fact, the person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of GOD but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit, undeerstand? He who has the Spirit makes Judgments about all things, but such a person is not subject to merely human judgment.
In fact, the one who is from the earth belongs to the earth, and speaks as one from the earth.It's that. But the one who is of heaven is above all( Ephesians 1:3 combined with Philippians 3:20-21,among other Scriptures)for he testifies to what he has seen and heard, but no one accepts his testimony, but whoever has accepted it has certified that GOD is Truthful.For the one whom GOD has sent speaks the Words of GOD,for GOD gives the Spirit without limit.
Hebrews 4:12-13
12The Word of GOD is quick-the Word is GOD,SELF-EXECUTING,understand?-,and powerful,and sharper than any twoedged Sword,piercing even to the dividing asunder of SOUL and SPIRIT,and of the joints and marrow,and is a DISCERNER of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
13Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in His sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of Him with whom we must render an account.
Be careful or then get ready
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