Bible Discussion Thread

Hello, I'd like to seek input from fellow believers on these 2 verses:

"There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love." 1 John 4:18 KJV

To me this seems to make fear seem bad, and weak, like a character flaw if you have fear. However, the next fears says to fear God.

"But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him." Luke 12:5 KJV

The first one says someone that fears is not made perfect in love, but the other one says to fear God.

How do I reconcile these 2 verses? Thank you to anyone who replies.

Hello again Adam,

As to 1 John 4:18

This statement about perfect love casting out fear follows Johns exposition on the amazing love of God for us manifested in sending His Son to suffer and die for our sins to set us free from the condemnation our sin deserves. And we can know that we have life in Jesus because of what He did for us. In verse 15 John speaks as Jesus did in the Luke passage, that any who confesses Jesus is the Son of God (which the Jewish leaders determined was blasphemy; that Jesus made Himself out to be God when He claimed to be the Son of God- Jn. 10:33) will be indwelt by the God and the person dwells in God. vs. 16.

verse 17 says that we can have boldness on the day of judgement. This is where our love is made perfect and we will have no fear of condemnation at that judgement. vs.18. Those who will fear at the judgement will be those who do not confess Jesus, who are in unbelief and do not have the indwelling of God nor do they abide in God, as believers do prior to the judgement.

On judgment day we will have boldness instead of fear like the unbelievers because the love of God has been shed abroad in our hearts through God's work of salvation, forgiveness of sins, and the imputed righteousness of Christ. We can stand before God on judgment day knowing we will enter into blessed eternity in the Presence of God without any fear or sense of disapproval from God. We will stand without blame because Jesus stood for us in our place to enable us to become sons of God, vessels of His mercy, not vessels of His wrath, as the unbelievers are.

So I think that both of these selections from Luke and 1 John are speaking about judgment day and how we who confess Jesus, even under threat of death by persecutors, will receive the crown of life, and victory, and acceptance by God who did not have to save us but chose to do so in the manifestation of His love for us in Christ.

I am interested in reading what others think on your concerns on this matter.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts GiGi and for your kind words. That's a good idea to zoom out and look at the chapter context like you did to try to understand the meaning more completely.

Hello Adam, you have been missed on here lately.

I would like to speak to the Luke 12 passage.

In this, the beginning of the chapter, Jesus is giving admonishment to his disciples to not fear the persecution and martyrdom that would come upon them for following Him, as the most they can do to any of those who would do this to them is kill the body.

Then he reminds them that God knows even the number of hairs on one's head and is concerned for the demise of sparrows.

He warns them that those who confess Him before men, Jesus will confess them before the Father. (as approved); but one who denies Him will Jesus deny before the angels and the Father.

Next, He describes the unforgivable sin.

Then He tells them how the authorities of Judaism will drag them before the magistrate to be prosecuted, but the Holy Spirit will give them the right words to speak (for He is our Advocate, legal defender when we face accusations).

When Jesus told them to fear God, who can both kill any one He chooses, and cast those He judges to be fit for condemnation to be thrown into the lake of fire.

So, I think that Jesus was warning them that they will face severe trials for His name sake and that they are to be courageous in the face of these, not fearful so as to draw back from confessing Jesus as the Christ, Savoir and Lord, because the price of denying Jesus is much higher, more severe, more painful, and more lasting that if their enemies put them to death for standing for Jesus when brought to trial or captured by such men as Saul of Tarsus.

Jesus did not want them to shrink back from their commitment to Him when their faith and allegiance is sorely tried. And He emphasizes to them that the Father is a judge who condemns those who fail to walk in faith. And this condemnation of God is immensely worse and more anguishing than any persecution, pain and suffering one could face in this life. He is telling them that the wages for unbelief are eternally anguish in the lake of fire.

I think what I was trying to say is , that it is God's perfect love that should cast out our fear . We need to trust that He always loves us and wants us with Him and is willing to forgive us through Christ .

For me , fear can make people behave badly , let's say you have done something bad and you are so afraid of the consequences that you end up doing something even worse to cover up the first offense . Yes we should fear God but I see it as fear that we might disappoint Him , a bit like when a child does something that they know their parent won't like . We know that our parents will still love us but we don't want to incur their disappointment . Perfect love ? That doesn't come from us , perfect love comes from God and it's our faith in His perfect love for us that casts out our fear , we trust in His perfect love and willingness to forgive us . If we don't believe in / trust in His love for us and His willingness to forgive us then we will spend our lives , in this world , in fear of the judgement in the next world . Therefore it is His perfect love that we must have faith in . If we don't then we cannot believe in His willingness to forgive us and we doom ourselves to a life of fear . I hope I've explained that in a way that isn't to awkward . Just my take on those verses .

I like your parent / child analogy. Child is afraid of consequences of doing wrong and being disciplined but can still love and respect the parent. Thank you.

Hi Adam,

In 1 John 4:18, where it says "He that feareth is not made perfect in love," it would seem as though it is saying that it is bad to fear.

Here is my understanding of this verse:

He says there is no fear in love; but perfect love (that is, love brought to completion), casts out fear: because fear has torment. He that fears is not made perfect, or complete in love.

He's talking about the motive for obeying God. Some people obey God because they are afraid. Those who have the Spirit of God, and have matured and understand about the love of God, they do things because they love Him. It's like Jesus said in John 14:15 if you love me, you will keep my commandments.

In Luke 12:5, if we look at it with Verse 4, Jesus is showing contrast. All man can do to you is kill you, physically put you to death. And He's following this line of hypocrisy. We act a certain way so that we don't get rejected. We act a certain way so that we don't suffer the consequences.



Even as a Christian, sometimes we compromise with nonbelievers because we have a fear and a concern whether they are going to reject us or receive us. Jesus said all you need to do is fear God. That is the only one you need to fear.

I hope this helps. God bless!!!

Thank you Jesse, God bless you