I agree with Jesse. At the time of this Revelation of Jesus Christ to John (around 90 AD or perhaps a bit earlier), these 7 churches existed in Asia Minor, either planted by Paul, John, or some other apostle. These were actual cities in Asia Minor and the churches had existed there for a few or many decades, depending on when the gospel first reached the people there. Each church believed in Jesus and served the true God, but each church was a bit different from the others AND each Jesus highlighted specific problems in each church as a warning to them (and to us) of the dangers of developing false teachings and allowing sinful living to flourish in ourselves and in our church communities.
John must have known these churches. He may have placed the bishops, pastors over them at one time. He may have visited them to preach. It is known historically that John did appoint some bishops of Asia Minor. I think he appointed Polycarp.
So, John was not some type of hermit off a secluded place for most of his life in Christ. he was active in living out his apostleship until he was arrested for witnessing for Christ and exiled to Patmos, an Agean island.
Christ was speaking to John about these churches for a reason. One reason may have been because John would be released from Patmos and he returned to his apostolic work in Asia Minor until his death in about 95 AD. He most likely returned to these churches to help them get back on track. His Revelation in written form was been distributed among the churches also
Jesus was giving direct help to John in his apostolic work that he would continue after his release from Patmos. he was later martyred. Such a stellar disciple he was. Boiled in oil and killed for Christ's sake after a lifetime of serving the Lord heartily and faithfully. 26 AD - 95 AD into eternity!
This is the first time I've heard anyone say that. I am not sure how this pastor came to that conclusion but these messages were to seven separate churches in Asia.
The Lord is giving messages specifically for these seven. But they are not the only churches in these areas.
It is kind of interesting that if you do a little digging, you will find that each one of these cities is the head of the postal district in that area. So these are the main cities within their districts.
And there are other churches around, but the Lord picked out seven. And each church has its own problems, and each church has its own good points.
But everybody's church today has some of these things in it. In fact, if you put them all together, you would have the complete seven messages to the church before Christ comes back.
Okay, so I have a few questions. First, what was the message? Second, if God gave the message to an angel, what did the angel do with the message? And thirdly, I know that ANGELOS can also mean messenger. So, if I (me personally) am the angel of the church (as you say), why in all of John's writings, the gospel of John, 1, 2, & 3rd John, and Revelation, John never uses the word ANGELOS for human messengers?
There have been several instances over the years where someone will post a question and we as a group give answers that we believe to be true, and we disagree with each other's answers, and then we argue back and forth amongst each other, and the person who posted the original question never joins into the conversation.
Sometimes the questions are controversial questions and I think that sometimes we get baited into the very thing you and I are doing here. I don't see this as being the case with this, as I believe this was an honest question being asked, but I do think it would be nice if the person who posted the question would at least respond to the answers you and I gave, or perhaps join in the discussion.
Jordyn, you and I are just going to have to remain in disagreement on this one. As I said, unless PBC79 has any other questions, or wishes to respond to what we shared, I see no need to continue this. If this is something you feel strongly about, perhaps you can start a new thread?
The original question by PBC79 seemed to be asking if Revelation Chapters 2 & 3 are referring to seven churches, or one church. This person was told that the seven churches of Revelation are all one church. I believe that is incorrect.
Although you and I gave conflicting answers, I stand by my original response to PBC79. I still hold that these were 7 literal churches that were established in those seven locations listed in Revelation Chapters 2 & 3. And each one of these churches were given a specific message.
Now, as far as continuing on in this discussion, I see no purpose in it unless the person who began this thread has more questions. I gave my answer to the original question that was asked, and you gave yours. So, unless PBC79 wishes to enter this discussion, I see no need to continue going back and forth with each other about things unrelated to the question asked.
I agree with Jesse. At the time of this Revelation of Jesus Christ to John (around 90 AD or perhaps a bit earlier), these 7 churches existed in Asia Minor, either planted by Paul, John, or some other apostle. These were actual cities in Asia Minor and the churches had existed there for a few or many decades, depending on when the gospel first reached the people there. Each church believed in Jesus and served the true God, but each church was a bit different from the others AND each Jesus highlighted specific problems in each church as a warning to them (and to us) of the dangers of developing false teachings and allowing sinful living to flourish in ourselves and in our church communities.
John must have known these churches. He may have placed the bishops, pastors over them at one time. He may have visited them to preach. It is known historically that John did appoint some bishops of Asia Minor. I think he appointed Polycarp.
So, John was not some type of hermit off a secluded place for most of his life in Christ. he was active in living out his apostleship until he was arrested for witnessing for Christ and exiled to Patmos, an Agean island.
Christ was speaking to John about these churches for a reason. One reason may have been because John would be released from Patmos and he returned to his apostolic work in Asia Minor until his death in about 95 AD. He most likely returned to these churches to help them get back on track. His Revelation in written form was been distributed among the churches also
Jesus was giving direct help to John in his apostolic work that he would continue after his release from Patmos. he was later martyred. Such a stellar disciple he was. Boiled in oil and killed for Christ's sake after a lifetime of serving the Lord heartily and faithfully. 26 AD - 95 AD into eternity!
This is the first time I've heard anyone say that. I am not sure how this pastor came to that conclusion but these messages were to seven separate churches in Asia.
The Lord is giving messages specifically for these seven. But they are not the only churches in these areas.
It is kind of interesting that if you do a little digging, you will find that each one of these cities is the head of the postal district in that area. So these are the main cities within their districts.
And there are other churches around, but the Lord picked out seven. And each church has its own problems, and each church has its own good points.
But everybody's church today has some of these things in it. In fact, if you put them all together, you would have the complete seven messages to the church before Christ comes back.
The message wasn't to the churches, but to the angel of the church.
God Bless YOU!
I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with you on this one.
May God bless you also brother!
Revelation 2:1 Unto the ANGEL of the church ....write ....
Revelation 2:8 Unto the ANGEL of the church ..... write.....
Revelation 2:12 Unto the ANGEL of the church ..... write .....
Revelation 2:18 Unto the ANGEL of the church ....write .....
Revelation 3:1 Unto the ANGEL of the church ..... write ......
Revelation 3:7 Unto the ANGEL of the church.... write ....
Revelation 3:14 Unto the ANGEL of the church ..... write ......
The word says the message is to the angel of the church, just as relevant for today as then, the word is for ALL AGES.
YOU are the angel (messenger) of the church, and the church is Christ, and YOU and Christ were made ONE flesh at his resurrection.
God Bless YOU!
Okay, so I have a few questions. First, what was the message? Second, if God gave the message to an angel, what did the angel do with the message? And thirdly, I know that ANGELOS can also mean messenger. So, if I (me personally) am the angel of the church (as you say), why in all of John's writings, the gospel of John, 1, 2, & 3rd John, and Revelation, John never uses the word ANGELOS for human messengers?
The message to YOU is everything that is written in his word.
You will either believe the message or not believe the message.
The writers of the NEW Testament never used the words that describes God and God's saints in the Old Testament.
Do you believe the angel of the Lord was Christ.
If so, and you were resurrected with Christ as ONE FLESH, why wouldn't you be an angel.
Most things are symbols, not literal little creatures with with six wings and eyes on every side.
God Bless YOU!
(Part 2):
There have been several instances over the years where someone will post a question and we as a group give answers that we believe to be true, and we disagree with each other's answers, and then we argue back and forth amongst each other, and the person who posted the original question never joins into the conversation.
Sometimes the questions are controversial questions and I think that sometimes we get baited into the very thing you and I are doing here. I don't see this as being the case with this, as I believe this was an honest question being asked, but I do think it would be nice if the person who posted the question would at least respond to the answers you and I gave, or perhaps join in the discussion.
Jordyn, you and I are just going to have to remain in disagreement on this one. As I said, unless PBC79 has any other questions, or wishes to respond to what we shared, I see no need to continue this. If this is something you feel strongly about, perhaps you can start a new thread?
God Bless!!!
I have no problem when parties disagree, it's part of God's plan, he sets brother against brother and sister against sister.
God Bless YOU!
(Part 1):
The original question by PBC79 seemed to be asking if Revelation Chapters 2 & 3 are referring to seven churches, or one church. This person was told that the seven churches of Revelation are all one church. I believe that is incorrect.
Although you and I gave conflicting answers, I stand by my original response to PBC79. I still hold that these were 7 literal churches that were established in those seven locations listed in Revelation Chapters 2 & 3. And each one of these churches were given a specific message.
Now, as far as continuing on in this discussion, I see no purpose in it unless the person who began this thread has more questions. I gave my answer to the original question that was asked, and you gave yours. So, unless PBC79 wishes to enter this discussion, I see no need to continue going back and forth with each other about things unrelated to the question asked.
There is only ONE church, Christ.
Revelation 21:22 And I saw no temple therein, for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb, are the temple thereof.
2 Corinthians 6:16 ... ye are the temple of God .....
Matthew 19:6 Wherefore THEY (you and Christ) are no more TWAIN, but ONE flesh....
This happen at Christ's resurrection, you were made a JOINT HEIR, you and Christ arose as ONE flesh, the new creation, the TRUE church.
God Bless YOU!
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