Bible Discussion Thread

Yesterday as I was reading the Bible I noticed something. I was reading in 1 Thess 4:13-18 the rapture of the church. In a few words it says that the Lord will descend from Heaven, then the dead at that time will rise and those alive will be transformed and we altogether will be caught up to the air. Then I went to Rev 19:6-16 and read the events just before the second coming of Jesus. I noticed that according to the description in Rev the saints up there were resurrected before the second coming of Jesus, the scripture says "for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.8And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints". This is before Jesus descends from Heaven.So the rapture (if this is the rapture as some brothers believe) takes pace definitely before the second coming of Jesus onto earth.

Why do I think that those two incidents don't match together if they refer to the same event, the rapture? Anybody wants to answer?

Hi Giannis.

I agree also that these are separate events.

In Revelation 19:9 we see the marriage supper of the Lamb.

In verse 11-16 We the second coming where Christ comes to make war.

If this was the rapture of the saints, who is it that was present at the marriage supper of the Lamb in verse 9 if we hadn't been raptured yet?

In other words, he would have to come get us before we can attend the wedding!

Thanks and God bless you.

Brothers in Christ

Greetings in Christ JESUS

just to remember :

NATION shall rise against NATION ... Will be G7, and G-20, and UN, among other World Entites, DISSOLVED?

Get ready, yes, get ready

Our GOD is in control of History, nothing random happens.

Remember: Our GOD rests of His works in this seventh and last Day, or seventh and last millennium after Adam. By the way, GOD sent JESUS - the Word made flesh( John 1:14), He is the true God, and eternal life, and we know that the Son of GOD came (IN THE FOURTH DAY- John 5:17, take a look, or around 4000 years after Adam, even around 2000 years ago), and hath given us an understanding, that we may know Him that is True, and we are in Him that is True, even in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and Eternal life- 1John 5:19-20.

Our Lord JESUS said: All Power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Our Lord JESUS will exert all His Power from this beginning of this seventh and final millennium to destroy the works of the Devil, to destroy the Devil's WORLD with its all kind of structures: religious, and economic,social,military, among other systems of the satanic organizations and systems.By the way, The kingdoms OF THIS WORLD are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of His Christ;and He shall reign for ever and ever- Revelation 11:15-18.Take a look.

By the way, one of the 7 heads of the MAN Beast of sea- Revelation 13:1-10- will be wounded to death; but his deadly wound will be healed (but how? well, the dragon( Revelation 13:11, will give to the MAN Beast of sea his Power, and his Seat (in Jerusalem), and great Authority- Revelation 13:2), and all the world ( Luke 21:24 combined with Revelation 11:2) will wonder after the MAN Beast of sea.

Be careful and get ready

Well, Celebration of the Lamb's marriage? ONLY AFTER THE JUDGMENT OF BABYLON. (see the site of purebibleforum)

Revelation 18:4- Come out of her,my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

Get ready

Hi Giannis,

I know I may be in the minority of this but, they do not match if we say Jesus comes for the Church and takes those resurrected and those who are still living who will be changed back up to heaven. Many say the church is the bride and when the Church is raptured to heaven the marriage supper will then be in heaven. In 1 Thess. 4:13-18 Paul was comforting them because they thought the ones who believed in Jesus that had already died would miss Jesus's second coming and would not be resurrected.

Those who are resurrected and those living who will be changed will meet Jesus in the air on His way down to earth, nowhere does it say we are taken or go to heaven. This is the first resurrection in Rev. 19:11-16 and Rev. 20:5-6. There are only two resurrections if Thess. 13-18 is a rapture of the Church to heaven there would be three resurrections, but Scripture says there are only two.

Scripture says only those who are chosen and faithful, those who are worthy to reign with Jesus for a thousand years will be in the first resurrection, Rev. 5:10 Rev. 17:14 Rev. 20:6 the first resurrection is just before the battle of Armageddon Rev. 19:17-21 Rev. 20:1-6.

After a thousand years, the rest of the dead will be resurrected, the second and last, Rev. 20:7-15. Some say the white throne judgment is only for the lost but if we read vs 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. Some are found in the Book of Life also these lines up with Dan. 12:2 and Matt. 25:31-46, the white throne (then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory).

The bride is another discussion; Who is the bride? Who are those "Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb"?

God bless,

RLW

Hello Ronald.

Firstly you are right about the no, of resurrections, two of them.

On the other hand in Rev it seems that the saints are resurrected before Jesus starts descenting to earth. In Thess they are ressurrected as Jesus comes to earth and we meet with Him in the air. Also in my previous posts I underlined the different conditions of the world in the rappture and in the 2nd coming. They don't seem to match at all. They are completely different.

Today I remembered what Paul said about the Istaelites at the end. Rom 11:25, "For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in." We know that the Israelites will accept Jesus during the great tribulation. If the rapture is the same event as the 2nd coming there seems to be a timing problem, because the verse says after all of the gentiles will be saved.

Last, in your opinion who are the people that are called into the marriage supper of the Lamb?

GBU

Hi Giannis,

Part one.

First, I would like to say Revelation is not in any kind of chronological order, and we agree there are only two resurrections. The rapture, many believe this is just for the Church before Jesus's second coming. By saying this in my understanding is what makes 1 Thess. 4:13-19 look like a different event from the first resurrection at Jesus's second coming. Matt. 24:31 Mark 13:27 1 Cor. 15:51-58 1 Thess. 4:16-17 Rev. 11:15 Rev. 19:11-16 At the last trump the second coming of Jesus, all these describe the first resurrection. Rev. 20:6.

There are only two resurrections, and we see the first resurrection at Jesus's second coming at the seventh and last Trump. After the battle, we see those in this first resurrection at the judgment seat of Christ, the thrones set up Rev. 20:4. Jesus and His chosen then set up the kingdom and the thousand years start. The rest saved and lost will not be resurrected until after 1,000 years Rev.20:5 Rev.20 the last verse 27 tells us this is not just for the lost there are those found in the Book of Life.

See part two.

Giannis,

Part two

The Bride and the Marriage Supper, many say the Church is the Bride but nowhere in Scripture is the Church called the Bride. There are analogies of how Jesus loves and treats the Church as a man should his wife. In the first verse of 2 Cor. 11 Paul asked them to bear with his folly this suggests what he was to say is allegorical.

If we look at Matt. 26:29 Mark 14:25 Jesus is telling the disciples he will not drink of this fruit of the vine until He drinks it new with you in my Father's kingdom, the keyword is new. The Bride of Christ is the New Jerusalem: Rev 21:9-11 She was arrayed in fine linen, the righteousness of saints, the garments clean and spotless of the saints is what she is arrayed in.

Christians are sons of God, Romans 8:14 1 John 3:2 we are joint-heirs with Christ Romans 8:17 Gal. 3:29 we are the body of Christ 1 Cor. 12:27 we are in the body of His flesh Col. 1:22. We are who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb Rev.19:9. Like Jesus said at the Last Supper He will not drink until all is new. The marriage supper is when there is a new heaven and new earth and the New Jerusalem comes out of heaven down to the new earth and all saints from old to the new are the "Blessed are those who are called to the marriage supper of the Lamb!"

What a glorious site that will be.

This is my understanding different as it may be.

God bless,

RLW

:) I think I said this before but...I'm with you on that Ronald , me and my whole congregation . Will see you there brother , Thy Kingdom Come .

Thank you Jema,

God bless,

RLW

Dear Ronald,

I am with you on this interpretation. And I don't think that we are truly in the minority in the whole history of Christianity. But in todays American Evangelical churches, especially those that arose in America, the belief in the dispensational pretribulation rapture is more the norm. But there are a vast number of people who believe as we do, that there is not going to be a pretribulation rapture. Thanks for your explanation here. i know many on this particular site do take the viewpoint of the pre-trib rapture.

I had cautiously entered into some discussions on this in the past where you and many others posted their views and Scriptural interpretations as I did. That was a good discussion. But I do not wish to engage in this topic again on this thread. I just want to give you support for posting a view that is unpopular among many who post regularly on here. Blessing to you and to those who don't think like us. We are all one in Christ.

Thank you GiGi.

God bless,

RLW

Hello Giannis,

That is my understanding also. I believe that 1 Thessalonians Chapter 4 is speaking of the rapture, whereas Revelation Chapter 19 is speaking about the 2nd coming of Christ.

I see this as two separate events (Rapture & 2nd coming). My belief is that we will be at the marriage supper of the lamb during the tribulation, and after the 7-year tribulation is complete, then the Lord will return (2nd coming), and we come back with him.

Revelation 19:14 tells us that the armies which were in heaven followed Him upon white horses (that would be us), clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

Clothed in fine linen, white and clean. We see this mentioned in Revelation 19:8 which says, "And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white:"

The word white is the word bright. Clean and white: for fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

So we, as His bride, we will be clothed in white, fine linen. And notice that this is all taking place in heaven. We are there. The tribulation is still taking place on earth while we are at the marriage supper with Christ prior to His 2nd coming.

Something else I notice is that at the rapture, Christ does not come all the way to the earth. We meet Him in the air. But at His 2nd coming, He will physically touch down onto the Mount of Olives.

Blessings to you!

Hello Jesse, Spencer

Thanks for your comments, this is my understaning as well.

GBU

Brother Giannis:

What if the rapture is a doctrine of man, and not the truth of scripture?

God's word cannot contradict itself.

God Bless YOU!

Hello Jordyn.

You asked "What if the rapture is a doctrine of man, and not the truth of scripture? God's word cannot contradict itself."

What makes you think that the rapture is a doctrine of man?

Brother Giannis:

The whole gospel of the Kingdom of God revolves around the death and resurrection of Christ.

The Old Testament saints and the New Testament saint were all resurrected with Christ ..... first resurrection .....

It all happened 2000 years ago, but we, not yet born when this event happened, are BORN GAIN by the words of GOD.

He tells us what happened.

Now there are TWO types of people, believers .... first resurrection ..... and non believers ..... the second resurrection

The wages of SIN (unbelief) is DEATH.

The GIFT of BELIEVING is eternal LIFE.

At Christ resurrection, all flesh died on the cross with Christ, ONLY Christ arose, the only one with eternal life.

All men arose a New Creation with Christ joint heirs of eternal life, TWO became ONE, a MARRIAGE, flesh of my flesh and bone of my bone, we became the wife of Christ, ONE FLESH.

Those who believe they were made one IN CHRIST, have already died, never to see dead again, they are just harvested ONE by ONE, not collectively, as man teaches.

If you make everything revolve around the death and resurrection of Christ, it becomes easier to understand the prophecies and REVELATION.

Most people don't spend enough time studying Mosses and the prophets.

Remember Jesus told the Pharisees, who knew the Old scriptures inside out, they failed at understanding their meaning.

It is no different today, unless you let the spirit of truth teach you, and that means repenting of the doctrines taught by man, you will have to go through the second death at the second resurrection and judgement.

God Bless YOU.