I was thinking about an earlier post of mine where I said that the three heavens were : the garden of Eden , the kingdom of Israel under Solomon and the Kingdom of God on Earth during Christ's one thousand year reign . Looking at the kingdom of Israel under Solomon , it seems very imperfect considering that Solomon married many foreign women who turned his heart from following God wholeheartedly . As I believe very much that the old foreshadows the new , how can I justify my belief in this ? Solomon is a type of Christ . He married many foreign women :) what are we ? Not Jews most of us ! Foreigners ! Only instead of us turning Christ away from God , Christ has turned our hearts to God ! So that's how I feel about Solomon and his foreign wives , they are a foreshadow of Christ and his foreign wives , us ! :) .
My understanding is that it was the Jews who where living in Israel at the time of Jesus who rejected Jesus at His first advent. The ten tribes that went into captivity in Assyria never re-established themselves in Israel as a consolidated group who worshipped with the Jews at the Temple at that time in history. There may have been a small percentage of Northern Kingdom Israelites who returned. Even just a small portion of the Jews who were taken captive in Babylon returned. Most Israelites from both the northern and southern kingdoms migrated out of the land of their captivity (or stayed) and were "scattered and mixed into all nations of the world" just as God had promised to do if they turned from Him.
In the time of the apostles, they spread the gospel across the known world at that time. It is very likely that many ethnic Israelites believed and became part of the Church Jesus established among the nation of the world. some of these Israelites were Jews who had retained their Jewish identity and faith and believed the gospel. But most of the northern kingdom Israelites lost their ethnic identity and mixed in with the peoples in the lands they migrated to, adopting their pagan religious practices. these Israelites according to the flesh embraced the faith in Jesus that the apostles brought to them through their evangelism.
My point isn't to herald anyone being of "Israelite" blood, because Paul and Jesus said that that is of no avail to them, but it is those who believe in him who are the true Israel of God. Gal. 3-4 speaks to this plainly (I have posted on this before) by faith as Abraham was justified.
Many people on here and elsewhere seem to identify Jews as the only Israelites. But the whole nation of Israel is much larger than the small portion of Jews that now live in Israel and in the world. People who descended from the dispersed Israelites are much more plentiful than simply the Jews. This was the gist of my post.
Interesting take on the Solomon idea. My thoughts are that ever person is a "foreign wife" to Christ prior to us being brought to God through Christ. We were enemies of God, as Paul says, and dead in our sins. When we are brought into faith and become untied to Christ, we no longer are "foreign" to Him, but "known".
My other though was that the promises of God concerning a "chosen priesthood, holy nation" were, in the wilderness, in the flesh, were the Israelites, (all tribes not just Jews). And this chosen people in the spiritual sense is the Church, as Paul says in Galatians.
Sometimes we forget about all of the tribes when we speak about God's chosen people. I think the only reason that the Jews were in the land of promise from their captivity was so that Jesus would be born in this land from the tribe of Judah.
We do not know if we are descended from the 10 tribes that were dispersed across the world. But God knows. And his chosen are not a matter of fleshly lineage anyway, but spiritual lineage from Christ.
You are right in that we are a royal priesthood! ( 1 Peter 2:9)
"But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
You stated. "We do not know if we are descended from the 10 tribes that were dispersed across the world. But God knows. And his chosen are not a matter of fleshly lineage anyway, but spiritual lineage from Christ.
IF we were descendents from the 10 tribes that were dispersed across the world, wouldn't that make us fleshly lineage instead of spiritual lineage from Christ?
If we are Israel today then this verse would apply to us. 1 Peter 2:7-8. (...unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.)
Israel still holds to the levitical priesthood.
Today Israel is not a priesthood at all!
Today there is 12 lost tribes. "Spiritually"
If you think they has had a tough history, In the future it gets worse!!
In a sense they are worse than the Arabs, considering they has had God in their midst and is in continuance rebellion.
But the represents what the law can do.
And some of us is worse than they are considering we trample over the blood of Christ with the Holyspirit in the world.
We have reject Christ and his true teachings without the "thousands of years of having a religion worshipped by our fathers that saw the miracles and so much history that is hard to turn from.
I believe that the true Israel of God are those who believe in Jesus, whether ethnically Israeli or Gentile. It does not matter which we are, as Paul so plainly speaks of this in Gal. 3-6. What makes us God's chosen people is our faith in Jesus, and God has chosen every believer since before the creation of the world. He knows all of the elect and calls them from every nation, tribe, and tongue, even ethnic Israelites.
The verse you quoted in 1 Peter does not apply to any ethnic Israelite who converted to belief in Jesus and are reborn of the Holy Spirit. The verse in the epistle of Peter only pertains to the Israelite who rejected God in the wilderness, in the promised land after conquering it, and the those who reject Jesus. They are all still in their sins and if no longer alive in this life, stand condemned for their sins because they did not believe God as Abraham and Moses and David did.
So, I do not wish to make a long back and forth conversation on this topic with you at this time, Steven. It seems that your take on what I posted is sort of a tangent that I never intended to pursue.
I hope you are doing well and I am thankful for you excerpts from Dave Hunt. They are helpful in understanding what is happening in the Levant at this time.
My understanding is that it was the Jews who where living in Israel at the time of Jesus who rejected Jesus at His first advent. The ten tribes that went into captivity in Assyria never re-established themselves in Israel as a consolidated group who worshipped with the Jews at the Temple at that time in history. There may have been a small percentage of Northern Kingdom Israelites who returned. Even just a small portion of the Jews who were taken captive in Babylon returned. Most Israelites from both the northern and southern kingdoms migrated out of the land of their captivity (or stayed) and were "scattered and mixed into all nations of the world" just as God had promised to do if they turned from Him.
In the time of the apostles, they spread the gospel across the known world at that time. It is very likely that many ethnic Israelites believed and became part of the Church Jesus established among the nation of the world. some of these Israelites were Jews who had retained their Jewish identity and faith and believed the gospel. But most of the northern kingdom Israelites lost their ethnic identity and mixed in with the peoples in the lands they migrated to, adopting their pagan religious practices. these Israelites according to the flesh embraced the faith in Jesus that the apostles brought to them through their evangelism.
My point isn't to herald anyone being of "Israelite" blood, because Paul and Jesus said that that is of no avail to them, but it is those who believe in him who are the true Israel of God. Gal. 3-4 speaks to this plainly (I have posted on this before) by faith as Abraham was justified.
Many people on here and elsewhere seem to identify Jews as the only Israelites. But the whole nation of Israel is much larger than the small portion of Jews that now live in Israel and in the world. People who descended from the dispersed Israelites are much more plentiful than simply the Jews. This was the gist of my post.
"There may have been a small percentage of Northern Kingdom Israelites who returned. Even just a small portion of the Jews who were taken captive in Babylon returned. Most Israelites from both the northern and southern kingdoms migrated out of the land of their captivity (or stayed) and were "scattered and mixed into all nations of the world" just as God had promised to do if they turned from Him. End quote.
Ok Gigi, you have 2 groups in that case. Those who migrated and mixed with other nations and those who stayed. Who do you believe to be the remnant? Certainly not those who mixed with the other nations which was forbidden!
Gigi Gal. 3-4 has absolutely nothing to do with The House of Israel verses the Church. It's contrasting the works of the Law and hearing of faith. (It has nothing to do with a ethnic group).
Gigi, you stated.
1 Peter does not apply to any ethnic Israelite who converted to belief in Jesus and are reborn of the Holy Spirit. The verse in the epistle of Peter only pertains to the Israelite who rejected God in the wilderness, in the promised land after conquering it, and the those who reject Jesus. They are all still in their sins and if no longer alive in this life, stand condemned for their sins because they did not believe God as Abraham and Moses and David did. End quote.
Here's the verse 1 Peter 2:7-8.
Gigi, I quoted that verse because you stated "We do not know if we are descended from the 10 tribes that were dispersed across the world, But God knows. End quote.
You suggested the possibility of a "fleshly lineage!
Gigi this lineage has a religion attached to their name, so if we're part of that lineage by way of the 10 lost tribes then the stone which the builders/Israel/us disallowed in 1 Peter applies to us also.
Gigi, The Church is not Spiritual Israel and Israel the remnant according to the election of grace. wasn't birth "at the cross", they were birth "BY THE CROSS".
thank you for your reply. As I stated in last post,I don't wish to go back and forth with you on this topic as we have already done so in the past. I hope your day goes very well. I am of to do errands. Hope to speak with you on another topic later.
"For it came to pass, when Solomon was old, that his wives turned away his heart after other gods: and his heart was not perfect with the Lord his God, as was the heart of David his father." (1 Ki.11:4) Just the opposite to what Christ did. "Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it/That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word;"(Ep.5:25). Solomon's heart was not perfect. Israel went whoring after foreign gods. Christ came to do his perfect will. Comparing apples with lemon makes a mongrel church. In Christ there is no Barbarian or foreigner.
My understanding is that it was the Jews who where living in Israel at the time of Jesus who rejected Jesus at His first advent. The ten tribes that went into captivity in Assyria never re-established themselves in Israel as a consolidated group who worshipped with the Jews at the Temple at that time in history. There may have been a small percentage of Northern Kingdom Israelites who returned. Even just a small portion of the Jews who were taken captive in Babylon returned. Most Israelites from both the northern and southern kingdoms migrated out of the land of their captivity (or stayed) and were "scattered and mixed into all nations of the world" just as God had promised to do if they turned from Him.
In the time of the apostles, they spread the gospel across the known world at that time. It is very likely that many ethnic Israelites believed and became part of the Church Jesus established among the nation of the world. some of these Israelites were Jews who had retained their Jewish identity and faith and believed the gospel. But most of the northern kingdom Israelites lost their ethnic identity and mixed in with the peoples in the lands they migrated to, adopting their pagan religious practices. these Israelites according to the flesh embraced the faith in Jesus that the apostles brought to them through their evangelism.
My point isn't to herald anyone being of "Israelite" blood, because Paul and Jesus said that that is of no avail to them, but it is those who believe in him who are the true Israel of God. Gal. 3-4 speaks to this plainly (I have posted on this before) by faith as Abraham was justified.
Many people on here and elsewhere seem to identify Jews as the only Israelites. But the whole nation of Israel is much larger than the small portion of Jews that now live in Israel and in the world. People who descended from the dispersed Israelites are much more plentiful than simply the Jews. This was the gist of my post.
Interesting take on the Solomon idea. My thoughts are that ever person is a "foreign wife" to Christ prior to us being brought to God through Christ. We were enemies of God, as Paul says, and dead in our sins. When we are brought into faith and become untied to Christ, we no longer are "foreign" to Him, but "known".
My other though was that the promises of God concerning a "chosen priesthood, holy nation" were, in the wilderness, in the flesh, were the Israelites, (all tribes not just Jews). And this chosen people in the spiritual sense is the Church, as Paul says in Galatians.
Sometimes we forget about all of the tribes when we speak about God's chosen people. I think the only reason that the Jews were in the land of promise from their captivity was so that Jesus would be born in this land from the tribe of Judah.
We do not know if we are descended from the 10 tribes that were dispersed across the world. But God knows. And his chosen are not a matter of fleshly lineage anyway, but spiritual lineage from Christ.
Thanks for the food for thought, Jema.
You are right in that we are a royal priesthood! ( 1 Peter 2:9)
"But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
You stated. "We do not know if we are descended from the 10 tribes that were dispersed across the world. But God knows. And his chosen are not a matter of fleshly lineage anyway, but spiritual lineage from Christ.
IF we were descendents from the 10 tribes that were dispersed across the world, wouldn't that make us fleshly lineage instead of spiritual lineage from Christ?
If we are Israel today then this verse would apply to us. 1 Peter 2:7-8. (...unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.)
Israel still holds to the levitical priesthood.
Today Israel is not a priesthood at all!
Today there is 12 lost tribes. "Spiritually"
If you think they has had a tough history, In the future it gets worse!!
In a sense they are worse than the Arabs, considering they has had God in their midst and is in continuance rebellion.
But the represents what the law can do.
And some of us is worse than they are considering we trample over the blood of Christ with the Holyspirit in the world.
We have reject Christ and his true teachings without the "thousands of years of having a religion worshipped by our fathers that saw the miracles and so much history that is hard to turn from.
Hebrews 10:26-31.
God bless and Goodnight.
I believe that the true Israel of God are those who believe in Jesus, whether ethnically Israeli or Gentile. It does not matter which we are, as Paul so plainly speaks of this in Gal. 3-6. What makes us God's chosen people is our faith in Jesus, and God has chosen every believer since before the creation of the world. He knows all of the elect and calls them from every nation, tribe, and tongue, even ethnic Israelites.
The verse you quoted in 1 Peter does not apply to any ethnic Israelite who converted to belief in Jesus and are reborn of the Holy Spirit. The verse in the epistle of Peter only pertains to the Israelite who rejected God in the wilderness, in the promised land after conquering it, and the those who reject Jesus. They are all still in their sins and if no longer alive in this life, stand condemned for their sins because they did not believe God as Abraham and Moses and David did.
So, I do not wish to make a long back and forth conversation on this topic with you at this time, Steven. It seems that your take on what I posted is sort of a tangent that I never intended to pursue.
I hope you are doing well and I am thankful for you excerpts from Dave Hunt. They are helpful in understanding what is happening in the Levant at this time.
My understanding is that it was the Jews who where living in Israel at the time of Jesus who rejected Jesus at His first advent. The ten tribes that went into captivity in Assyria never re-established themselves in Israel as a consolidated group who worshipped with the Jews at the Temple at that time in history. There may have been a small percentage of Northern Kingdom Israelites who returned. Even just a small portion of the Jews who were taken captive in Babylon returned. Most Israelites from both the northern and southern kingdoms migrated out of the land of their captivity (or stayed) and were "scattered and mixed into all nations of the world" just as God had promised to do if they turned from Him.
In the time of the apostles, they spread the gospel across the known world at that time. It is very likely that many ethnic Israelites believed and became part of the Church Jesus established among the nation of the world. some of these Israelites were Jews who had retained their Jewish identity and faith and believed the gospel. But most of the northern kingdom Israelites lost their ethnic identity and mixed in with the peoples in the lands they migrated to, adopting their pagan religious practices. these Israelites according to the flesh embraced the faith in Jesus that the apostles brought to them through their evangelism.
My point isn't to herald anyone being of "Israelite" blood, because Paul and Jesus said that that is of no avail to them, but it is those who believe in him who are the true Israel of God. Gal. 3-4 speaks to this plainly (I have posted on this before) by faith as Abraham was justified.
Many people on here and elsewhere seem to identify Jews as the only Israelites. But the whole nation of Israel is much larger than the small portion of Jews that now live in Israel and in the world. People who descended from the dispersed Israelites are much more plentiful than simply the Jews. This was the gist of my post.
You stated;
"There may have been a small percentage of Northern Kingdom Israelites who returned. Even just a small portion of the Jews who were taken captive in Babylon returned. Most Israelites from both the northern and southern kingdoms migrated out of the land of their captivity (or stayed) and were "scattered and mixed into all nations of the world" just as God had promised to do if they turned from Him. End quote.
Ok Gigi, you have 2 groups in that case. Those who migrated and mixed with other nations and those who stayed. Who do you believe to be the remnant? Certainly not those who mixed with the other nations which was forbidden!
Gigi Gal. 3-4 has absolutely nothing to do with The House of Israel verses the Church. It's contrasting the works of the Law and hearing of faith. (It has nothing to do with a ethnic group).
Gigi, you stated.
1 Peter does not apply to any ethnic Israelite who converted to belief in Jesus and are reborn of the Holy Spirit. The verse in the epistle of Peter only pertains to the Israelite who rejected God in the wilderness, in the promised land after conquering it, and the those who reject Jesus. They are all still in their sins and if no longer alive in this life, stand condemned for their sins because they did not believe God as Abraham and Moses and David did. End quote.
Here's the verse 1 Peter 2:7-8.
Gigi, I quoted that verse because you stated "We do not know if we are descended from the 10 tribes that were dispersed across the world, But God knows. End quote.
You suggested the possibility of a "fleshly lineage!
Gigi this lineage has a religion attached to their name, so if we're part of that lineage by way of the 10 lost tribes then the stone which the builders/Israel/us disallowed in 1 Peter applies to us also.
Gigi, The Church is not Spiritual Israel and Israel the remnant according to the election of grace. wasn't birth "at the cross", they were birth "BY THE CROSS".
God bless.
thank you for your reply. As I stated in last post,I don't wish to go back and forth with you on this topic as we have already done so in the past. I hope your day goes very well. I am of to do errands. Hope to speak with you on another topic later.
God bless you
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