Bible Discussion Thread Page 2

Hi GiGi,

If I could ask you a few questions? This is in love and respect; I understand the Trinity doctrine is nondebatable to many and most Christian discussion sites you have to confess this doctrine before you can enter. These are not gotcha questions they are questions I have asked myself in my study. You can answer or not and that is ok.

Do you have to believe in the doctrine of the Trinity for salvation and be a Christian?

Can you show me anywhere in the Bible where this doctrine is taught that we must believe to be saved?

If Jesus is God unable to sin or to be tempted, could He fulfill a law that man/flesh was under and condemn sin in the flesh if He was unable to sin?

I will leave it with just these three, like I said these are questions I have asked over time because there is not a Church close to me that I can go because of this doctrine. Most of the time the Pastors never preach on it but if it comes up and you disagree you are told you are not a Christian and you are no longer welcome.

God bless,

RLW

Ronald,

I ran out of room. I will be heading off to bed now. I can write more tomorrow.

Hi GiGi,

Thank you, there is no reason to post more you have answered my questions. I have studied John and all the New Testament and as you see this doctrine, I do not see it was taught in any of the books of the New Testament that we must believe it for salvation. What I do see is the only way of salvation is belief in Jesus our Lord Messiah the Son of God sent by the Father. Galatians 4:4

In John, I see a loving Son obedient to the Father who Jesus says is greater than Him. When Jesus was anointed with the Spirit of God without limit or measure the Father who dwelt in Jesus is the one who did the works. John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

All that Jesus had was given to Him from the Father, John 17:1-3 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: 2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Thank you for discussing this with me may our love for each other overcome any disagreement.

God bless,

RLW

You are welcome, Ronald. Have a great day in the Lord today.

Colossians Ch 1 is so clear to me , yes Christ is the begining of the creation of God because he is the firstborn from the dead , the creation of God isn't something that's finished , it is what is to come ! God's Kingdom on earth . Christ is the begining of the creation , through him and by him and because of him there will be , the Kingdom of God on earth , that is the goal ! When that is accomplished God will be all , in all . V 15-18 . Christ is the creator because through him and by him and because of him there will be , the Kingdom of God on earth , that's the goal ! Not this world as it stands now ! Isaiah Ch 13 V 12 . The creation isn't finished ! That's what Christ is ! The beginning ! We follow on and are completed in him at our ressurection to eternal life , we will be created through him by him and because of him and then we will be what Adam and Eve couldn't be . Sinless and clean and acceptable to live with God through Christ . God cannot even look at sin , we must be cleansed in order to be able to be with him , that's not completed in this life as long as we are in our fleshy bodies , the creation isn't finished ! Christ is the beginning! We are his creation because without him we don't exist ! We are just like the rest of the world , dead in sin . Christ covers our sins , God doesn't see them , we live under Christ's wings . Eventually we shall be like him , then shall we be acceptable vessels and God will be all in all . Christ did not create the things that are created in Genesis , God did that , Christ creates us , cleansed , acceptable to God , able to be presented to Him . Creation isn't complete ! Christ is working in us and in others to come . Thy Kingdom Come ! Think about the words of that prayer .

Hi Jema,

Yes, in the risen Christ, one day all will be made new.

God bless,

RLW

Amen and thank you , stay strong in the Truth , Christ is coming :) .

Hi Jena,

Thanks, have a great day and God bless.

RLW

Hello Ronald,

I have time now to get back to you.

You ask Do you need to believe in the Trinity to be saved and be a Christian.

For me, I think that it is important for people to believe the truth about Jesus and the God's Being as shown in Scripture. One can come to Christ on very little knowledge of Jesus and even the depth of the Gospel and will be received. But I do think that once someone does come to Jesus and they learn what Scripture teaches and rejects what is taught in Scripture about the deity of Jesus and the Triune nature of God (see the last supper discourse in john) then one becomes an apostate and is in spiritual danger since they are worshipping a false image of God and Jesus and have fallen into idolatry.

Can I show you where in Scripture this doctrine is taught that one must believe it to be saved?

In reply to this question, my best advice is for you to study the Scriptures for yourself, as citing the dozens of Scripture that speak to the deity of Jesus and the Triune nature of God would involve very lengthy postings here and I don't wish to do that when you can find the information you are looking for on the web easily. Just type in the question and you can read what you wish.

And the last question is : If Jesus is God and God cannot be tempted or sin, how can he truly be tempted and how can He fulfill the law that man was under and condemn sin in the flesh?

I believe that Son of God is both fully God and fully human in the Person of Jesus. That Jesus is one Person with two natures and these natures do not intermix. As God He cannot be tempted, or sin. But His human nature could be tempted and could sin. But since every act of Jesus is done by the Son of God, who is the only Person present in Jesus, He would never sin due to His divine nature.

Jesus did live a perfect human life as a true man, thus fulfilling all the law for us. And in doing so, He condemned sin in His flesh by His perfect life and sacrifice, conquering the law.

Hi Ronald,

I am not at all put off by your questions just as I knew you would be gracious to me when I asked you questions. Let me consider your questions a bit and I will get back to you. I am in the middle of something right now (smoking a turkey on the Traeger) and making stuffing. Thanks for asking me these questions. They are important ones to discuss.

Hi GiGi,

That sounds good, God bless your meal. When ever is fine, we have always been respecfull to each other.

God bless,

RLW

Sister GiGI:

You quoted:

John 1:1

John 1:14

John 10:30

And you BELIEVE those words of God.

"

John 17:22 And the glory thou gavest me I have given them, that they may be "ONE", even as we are "ONE".

This same "ONE " in John 17:22 is the same "ONE" in this other scriptures you quoted, yet you don't believe John 17:22 or John 10:34

Amos 3:3 Can two walk together and not be agreed.

God says you have to BELIEVE ALL his words.

God Bless YOU!

John 10:34- seems to be a popular verse here. People want to believe they are a god, is that what's happening here? That would be a gross misinterpretation. You know this is a quote with a question mark at the end, right? Let's be honest about it. Here's the commentary for that:

Christ's argument is: If your law calls judges gods, why should I be held guilty of blasphemy for saying that I am the Son of God?

As per the other argument trying to discredit the word "one" sounds like your argument is that one doesn't really mean one, because Jesus used it to describe believers being one. I don't see how being one in unity as Christ's body somehow means that all the Bible verses about Jesus being God and divine suddenly don't apply? The verse about the Father and Son being one is only one of MANY verses competing the picture. The Bible already says Jesus the Word is God so how can you disregard that?

God: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John 1:1 KJV

You: Word was "NOT" God?

"Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also." John 8:19 KJV

Have you thought about how your belief reconciles with verses like this above?

Isaiah 7:14 -

Yes, Jesus is called Immanuel which means "God with us". People called Jesus "God". He's King of King and Lord of Lords. Alpha and Omega, first and last. Do you believe Jesus is Lord? I believe that is a requirement for even being a Christian. A Christ follower should know who Christ is.

1 John 5:7-8

John 10:30

John 8:19

Genesis 1:26

Genesis 11:6-7 (plural "us" which includes Jesus, as per John 1:1)

Philippians 2:5-8

2 Corinthians 5:19

John 1:3

Matthew 28:19

1 Peter 1:2

2 Corinthians 13:14

Deuteronomy 6:4

John 14:10

John 20:28

1 John 2:22-24

Matthew 1:23-25

Colossians 2:9

Acts 17:29

Romans 1:20

Isaiah 7:14

Hebrews 1:8

Isaiah 44:6

Isaiah 43:11

Sister GiGi:

Do you believe:

Psalms 149:9 To execute upon them the judgement written, this honour hath all his saints.

1 Corinthians 6:2 ... the saints shall judge the world ......

This is GOD'S words not mine.

Psalms 82:6 I (God) have said, Ye are gods, children of the most high,

Psalms 82:7 But ye shall DIE like men (sinful flesh, on the cross of Christ) and fall like one of the princes (of this world)

Psalms 82:6 ARISE (by the resurrection), O god, JUDGE the EARTH, for thou shall inherit the nations.

Revelation 2:26 And he that overcometh and keeps MY WORKS, until the end, to him will I give power over the nations

Do you believe these words.

God Bless YOU!

Sister Gigi:

Show me the scriptures, don't just say my teaching are heresies.

Acts 24:14 But this I confess UNTO YOU, that after the which YOU CALL HERESY, so WORSHIP I the God of my fathers, believing all things WRITTEN in the Law and Prophets.

God Bless YOU!

Mary Jay (Earl)

We have been this route before many times and many others on here have given you many Scriptures that repute your position that in actuality we are gods.

Psalm 82:6 is speaking of the judges appointed over Israel when they had possessed the land. God is judging these judges as being mere men, not gods. He is mocking them because they dealt corruptly with the people. If they truly were gods they would not have cheated widows and orphans, preferred the cause of the rich, profited from their position, nor been flippant towards God and His requirements of them to 'stand among the people in His place' (thus the term of calling them gods). God was not proclaiming that these judges were in fact gods, but that those who are appointed to judge others are to judge as if God were judging through them. Jesus refers to this passage after He declared that He was one with the Father ( John 10:30) and the leaders wanted to stone Him for making Himself God. He quotes this Psalm as a rebuttal, not to affirm that the judges were in actuality gods, but that, if the leaders accept that Scripture as true, why would they be offended if He calls Himself the Son of God and one with God. He was calling the leaders out on their double mindedness and lack of understanding of the Scriptures though they knew them backwards and forwards.

Earl, God has stated so many times that He alone is God and there are no other gods, even though man may call idols gods or men gods. Just because man may consider idols or men gods does not make them gods.

There is only one God. And He is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit and no others. He has forbidden making any gods of our own, whether idols or persons.

Your preoccupation with being a god is concerning. Why not humbly accept that we are mere humans created to be humans forever, though we are adopted as children of God through Jesus, not by our own constitution or nature, but by the grace and wisdom of God.

Read Is. 44:6; 45:5; 46:9

Hi Lee the follower.

It's nice to see you return.

Jordyn is now posting as Mary Jay,

You may be able to reach out directly to him.

May the Lord bless you in your inquiries.

S. Spencer, I thought the same that Jordyn (AKA) Earl Bowman) is now posting as Mary Jay. His signature way of "speaking" is so very evident. Sad that he feels he must act in such a way to seem deceptive.

Amen Gigi I agree.

If salvation was to the wicked whether you accept Christ or not and we all "including the wicked" will be ce gods whether we accept Christ or not, there is no need for righteous living.

And God's display of love in offering his only begotten Son on the cross was pointless and cruel.

That is not the Gospel of Christ!

Here is who's Gospel it is.

Genesis 3:4-5.

And the SERPENT said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and YE SHALL BE AS GODS, knowing good and evil.

Isaiah 12:14

How art thou fallen from heaven, O LUCIFER, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

This origin is of Satan.

For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.

And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

2 Corinthians 11:13-15.

Also

Just because there is two opposing views on the deity of Christ.

If either side hates the other view, how is it possible join sides and to usher in this view or any other heresy to attack the Gospel and say that you are a child of God.

Blessings.

S. Spencer.

Thanks for the support. Been reading Scripture for the past few days on these topics. I pray for Earl to relinquish his grip on the belief that we will become or are gods due to his misapplication and misunderstanding of the Scriptures he cites. And I pray for those who deny the deity of our Lord. We have given Scriptures on this topic over and over again, as we should.

Hello Lee the Follower,

It is good to hear from you again.

Jordyn has not posted here in two weeks following the discussion he was having with S. Spencer. I suppose he will soon be back on here under a new screen name, as that seems to be a pattern for Earl Bowman, whom some of us think Jordyn is, since he would not deny that he was Earl when I asked him.

Hope you are ok , I can guess why you have gone :) . I will miss you . Stay strong in the Truth and the love of God . See you one fine day , much love in Christ .