The second part of Peter's confession, he says that Jesus is "the Son of the living God." This phrase (Son of the living God), if you ever have the time to look up that phrase from a Hebrew standpoint, you will find out that is the phrase that is used for God. The phrase "Son of the living God" to a Hebrew person is the same as calling Jesus God.
And please keep in mind that Jesus was accused of blasphemy for claiming to be the Son of God. Why did the Jews consider this to be blasphemy? It's because when Jesus claimed to be the Son of God, according to the Jews, He was claiming to be equal to God, God Himself. That's what that phrase means to a Jewish person.
What Peter was confessing was that you (Jesus) are the Messiah, and you are God. Wow, what a Confession! That is different than the public opinions, even in today's opinion on who Jesus is. But the importance is that everybody must settle it in their own hearts and minds about who Jesus is.
Was He just a great man? Was He just a great teacher? Was He a great healer? Was He a prophet? Was He the brother of Satan? Was He Michael the archangel? Or was He God in the flesh? Did Peter give the right answer?
In Matthew 16:17, Jesus answers Peter and says, "Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven." Was Peter's response to the question on who Jesus is revealed to Him by God? And if God the Father revealed this to Peter, why should our answer be any different than Peter's when we asked this most important question about who Jesus is? Is He the Christ, the Son of the living God? Or is he someone else?
"But the importance is that everybody must settle it in their own hearts and minds about who Jesus is." So true. This has been discussed I think most know my understanding on this.
Was He just a great man? 1 Timothy 2:5Numbers 23:19 1 Hosea 11:19 Corinthians 15:21-22 Was He just a great teacher? John 3:2 Was He a great healer? Luke 4:18-19 Was He a prophet? Deuteronomy 18:18 Was He the brother of Satan? No, He is the only begotten Son, John 3:161 John 4:14. Was He Michael the archangel? No, Hebrews 1:5. Or was He God in the flesh? 1 Timothy 3:16 manifest, (make clear, make known) John 5:19. Did Peter give the right answer? Yes.
This doctrine was developed almost 400 years after Jesus's crucifixion, today in Christianity salvation is dependent on the belief in the Trinity doctrine. If that is true. Why is it not taught anywhere in the New Testament?
If Jesus is God why would God have to anoint Him with His Spirit? Did Jesus do the works and the miracles or did God the Father by His Spirit/Holy Spirit? Is salvation at the mercy of the belief in the Trinity doctrine? Did Jesus say the Father was His God? Could God fulfill the law that was made for man? Did God give Himself or His Son that we would not perish? If we say Jesus is God, do we deny the Son?
Jesus said this, John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
Yes, this has been discussed before. There are those who believe Jesus is God, and those who don't. I know where you stand, and you know where I stand. I'm glad to know that you also disagree with both the Mormon and JW's view on who Jesus is. Many cult groups deny the deity of Jesus Christ, and also deny that He is God.
I wasn't speaking about the trinity although I believe in a Triune God. This comes mainly from Colossians 2:9. I'm not sure if there's a clearer statement than that! In Christ dwells all the fullness of the Godhead, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, in bodily form! In 1 John 5:20, there are two great statements of fact; Jesus Christ is the true God, and He is the eternal life!
I didn't know that today in Christianity, salvation is dependent on the belief in the Trinity doctrine. I stand with you when I say that I don't believe that is a requirement for salvation. The bible teaches that salvation is obtained by surrendering one's life to Jesus Christ and being born from above.
Your questions are fair and might challenge someone to question their belief as Jesus being God. A fair question was also asked in Mark 2:5-8. To a man who was sick of the palsy, Jesus said, "thy sins be forgiven thee." For that, the scribes accused Jesus of blasphemy. Their question was "Who can forgive sins but God only?" Good question! God is the only one who can forgive sins, so why is this man (Jesus) committing blasphemy?
This is not the first time He was accused of blasphemy. He was accused of blasphemy for making Himself equal with God, claiming to be the Son of God, which to those who heard Him, they understood very well that the phrase "Son of God" was the same as claiming to be God. So, they had every right to accuse Him of blasphemy, unless of course Jesus was (and is) God, which I believe He is!
Ronald, thank you so much for reading my original 2-part post, and thank you for sharing your belief on this important topic. Blessings to you also!
Thank you for this discussion, it is good to hear salvation is not dependent on this doctrine I have been told in many Churches I have attended I was not saved and was a heretic and shunned.
You know Greek better than I, but my understanding is the word Godhead which was added in the 1500s was translated twice and is misleading. Godhead is in the Bible 3 times, Acts 17:29, Greek word theios which means divine, Romans 1:20, Greek word theiotes which means divinity, divine nature, and Colossians 2:9 Greek word Theotetos which means deity.
The verse Colossians 2:9, in Jesus, dwelleth all the fulness of the deity of God, Jesus was filled without measure with God's Spirit/Holy Spirit John 3:34. John the Baptist said God had told him when Jesus was anointed/baptized John 1:32-33. God dwelt in Jesus and empowered Him by the Spirit. God gave Jesus power and authority Matthew 11:27. In John 1:14 we probably differ, God in Jesus dwelt/tabernacled among us. God was manifest in Jesus, John 12:49John 14:10.
Mark 2:5-8 in Matthew 11:25 Things were hidden from the wise and prudent, Scribes, Sadducees, and Pharisees were the ones accusing Jesus of blasphemy, as we see in Matthew 9:6-8, the same event multitudes glorified God. Jesus was given full authority in Matthew 28:18 and John 17:2-3 that we should know the only true God and Jesus Christ whom the Father sent, same as all the introductions, greetings, and blessings given to the followers of Christ in the New Testament were from God our Father and our Lord Jesus Christ and in Revelation 21:22.
All authority has been given to Jesus by the Father until the last enemy, death is put under His feet, 1 Corinthians 15:25-28Revelation 20:14.
Why the KJV translators chose to use the term "Godhead," I do not know. Other English translations also use the term Godhead. Where I see the phrase "fullness of the Godhead" being applied to Jesus, this tells me that He is the fullness of God who came in the flesh (in bodily form).
Colossians 1:19 says that it pleased the Father that in Him (Jesus) should all fullness dwell. So, in Christ dwells all of the fullness of who God is. All of the fullness of "Deity" dwells in the body of Jesus. God in His fullness was in Christ.
In Hebrews 1:3, speaking of Jesus, it says "Who being the brightness of His glory." The word brightness is literally translated out beam. APAUGASMA is the Greek word. It means the out beam of His (God's) glory. It is a technical term describing God projecting Himself through the time/space factor, and taking up residency in the person of Christ, yet while still being God.
In the Greek language, there are two words that are used to describe Christ and the process of God coming into this world. So, if I combine APAUGASMA with EICON, which is the word image, it's the same terminology in the Greek language that is talking about the source of light and power remaining the same. Jesus Christ who is the image (EICON), of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature.
What this is telling me is that Jesus Christ is the projection of God through the time space barrier and has taken up residency amongst us as a human being, while never being separate from the source. This is the function of God. Jesus Christ is the projection of the glory of God. He is the APAUGASMA of God's glory. He is God who has projected Himself through time and space and has residency amongst us.
Ronald, I know we are probably going to remain in disagreement on this one, although I do enjoy our discussion. Please know that I am not ignoring your questions. I will take them into consideration as I continue on in my studies.
I understand this subject is hard to discuss in a short post, to cover all the many Scriptures, some seem the point one way and others the other way.
Do you think Jesus is only a created human being? Of course not, He is the Son of God, the Messiah, the anointed one, Jesus is our Lord, our savior whom God sent that shed His blood for the remission of our sins. Do I believe Jesus had a beginning the answer is yes.
Do you think that the Son of God did not exist before Jesus was conceived? If you think that the Son of God existed before the conception of Jesus, do you believe He was created?
Hard to answer, Scripture tells us Jesus was the beginning of the creation of God, Rev. 3:4. Jesus could not be a timeless eternal Son and be the beginning of the creation of God, God has no beginning. 1 Peter 1:18-20 Jesus was "foreordained before the foundation of the world but was manifest in these last times for you". If created means to bring into existence the answer would have to be yes.
Do you worship Jesus? Jesus is the mediator between God and us He is the only way to the Father and is worthy of worship and honor Him, Philippians 2:10.
Do you believe that Jesus is divine? If divine means Jesus is God my answer is no. Jesus is the Son of God our Savior, Messiah, King, in being those He is divine.
Thanks for your reply. I will do my best to answer and give my understanding, it is an important discussion and to clearly explain my understanding even if we disagree. It will probably be sometime tomorrow, just want you to know I will reply.
From Jesus' own mouth He claimed to be divine and equal with God, Or (I AM YHWH) when He said He was the Son of God. when Jesus said He was the Son of Man, no one got very upset over that, but when He claimed to be God's Son, the Jews knew that He was claiming deity and were sorely vexed for they thought that Jesus was committing blasphemy. They thought that Jesus was showing great dishonor to God by claiming to be of the same kind as the Father, that is the same in substance as the LORD the Jews revered.
Amen! In John Chapter 1, there are three principles I see being taught about Jesus. Not in the beginning, but EN ARCHAE (In beginning), Jesus was in existence, and in equality, and in essence.
Existence - The only begotten Son Existed in the bosom of the Father.
Equality - Bosom of the Father means that He is one with Him.
Essence - God in human form.
In other words, if anybody wants to know about God, they go to Jesus Christ. He is not just a prophet. He's not just a rabbi. In the Christian faith and Biblical Christianity, He is God in the flesh, 100% God, 100% man!
Very well said. I like that you included Revelation 1:8. These are the words of the Lord Jesus Christ. He says, "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending." Alpha and Omega are the first and last letters of the Greek alphabet. As it says here, it is the beginning of the alphabet, and the end of the alphabet.
It is interesting that if you've ever studied the Hebrew sages and their interest in the beginning and end of the alphabet, in between those two, you have all the letters you need to express and put things into words and communicate with. So, they put a lot of emphasis on the alphabet. God is said to be the Alpha and Omega. He is the beginning of everything, and He is the end of everything.
But that's only one meaning. By using the first and last letters of the alphabet, it's also saying He's everything else in between. He's everything that you can put into words about creation and God. He's everything. He's at the beginning of everything, at the end of everything, and He's everything in between!
But then He repeats. After He says I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, He adds the phrase the Almighty. Wait a minute. That's from God the Father up in Revelation 1:4. Now Jesus is saying it. Very interesting!
Jesus says I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, the one who is, and was, and is to come. I am the almighty. Literally in the Greek text, it's the one who is, the one who was, and the one who is coming. It's all one person!
To the Jews, that's a designation of God. It's an expanded paraphrase of the name of God that God gave to Moses back in Exodus 3:14. And so that's why when we go through the gospels, whenever Jesus would say to people I AM, and of course the translators of the bible put "he" in italics to complete the sentence, only Jesus wasn't saying a sentence. He wasn't saying I am He. He was saying the name of God, I AM!
(Part 2):
The second part of Peter's confession, he says that Jesus is "the Son of the living God." This phrase (Son of the living God), if you ever have the time to look up that phrase from a Hebrew standpoint, you will find out that is the phrase that is used for God. The phrase "Son of the living God" to a Hebrew person is the same as calling Jesus God.
And please keep in mind that Jesus was accused of blasphemy for claiming to be the Son of God. Why did the Jews consider this to be blasphemy? It's because when Jesus claimed to be the Son of God, according to the Jews, He was claiming to be equal to God, God Himself. That's what that phrase means to a Jewish person.
What Peter was confessing was that you (Jesus) are the Messiah, and you are God. Wow, what a Confession! That is different than the public opinions, even in today's opinion on who Jesus is. But the importance is that everybody must settle it in their own hearts and minds about who Jesus is.
Was He just a great man? Was He just a great teacher? Was He a great healer? Was He a prophet? Was He the brother of Satan? Was He Michael the archangel? Or was He God in the flesh? Did Peter give the right answer?
In Matthew 16:17, Jesus answers Peter and says, "Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven." Was Peter's response to the question on who Jesus is revealed to Him by God? And if God the Father revealed this to Peter, why should our answer be any different than Peter's when we asked this most important question about who Jesus is? Is He the Christ, the Son of the living God? Or is he someone else?
Sorry for the typos, it should be Hosea 11:9 and 1 Corinthians 15:21-22
RLW
"But the importance is that everybody must settle it in their own hearts and minds about who Jesus is." So true. This has been discussed I think most know my understanding on this.
Was He just a great man? 1 Timothy 2:5 Numbers 23:19 1 Hosea 11:19 Corinthians 15:21-22 Was He just a great teacher? John 3:2 Was He a great healer? Luke 4:18-19 Was He a prophet? Deuteronomy 18:18 Was He the brother of Satan? No, He is the only begotten Son, John 3:16 1 John 4:14. Was He Michael the archangel? No, Hebrews 1:5. Or was He God in the flesh? 1 Timothy 3:16 manifest, (make clear, make known) John 5:19. Did Peter give the right answer? Yes.
This doctrine was developed almost 400 years after Jesus's crucifixion, today in Christianity salvation is dependent on the belief in the Trinity doctrine. If that is true. Why is it not taught anywhere in the New Testament?
If Jesus is God why would God have to anoint Him with His Spirit? Did Jesus do the works and the miracles or did God the Father by His Spirit/Holy Spirit? Is salvation at the mercy of the belief in the Trinity doctrine? Did Jesus say the Father was His God? Could God fulfill the law that was made for man? Did God give Himself or His Son that we would not perish? If we say Jesus is God, do we deny the Son?
Jesus said this, John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
Acts 4:12 God bless,
RLW
Yes, this has been discussed before. There are those who believe Jesus is God, and those who don't. I know where you stand, and you know where I stand. I'm glad to know that you also disagree with both the Mormon and JW's view on who Jesus is. Many cult groups deny the deity of Jesus Christ, and also deny that He is God.
I wasn't speaking about the trinity although I believe in a Triune God. This comes mainly from Colossians 2:9. I'm not sure if there's a clearer statement than that! In Christ dwells all the fullness of the Godhead, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, in bodily form! In 1 John 5:20, there are two great statements of fact; Jesus Christ is the true God, and He is the eternal life!
I didn't know that today in Christianity, salvation is dependent on the belief in the Trinity doctrine. I stand with you when I say that I don't believe that is a requirement for salvation. The bible teaches that salvation is obtained by surrendering one's life to Jesus Christ and being born from above.
Your questions are fair and might challenge someone to question their belief as Jesus being God. A fair question was also asked in Mark 2:5-8. To a man who was sick of the palsy, Jesus said, "thy sins be forgiven thee." For that, the scribes accused Jesus of blasphemy. Their question was "Who can forgive sins but God only?" Good question! God is the only one who can forgive sins, so why is this man (Jesus) committing blasphemy?
This is not the first time He was accused of blasphemy. He was accused of blasphemy for making Himself equal with God, claiming to be the Son of God, which to those who heard Him, they understood very well that the phrase "Son of God" was the same as claiming to be God. So, they had every right to accuse Him of blasphemy, unless of course Jesus was (and is) God, which I believe He is!
Ronald, thank you so much for reading my original 2-part post, and thank you for sharing your belief on this important topic. Blessings to you also!
Thank you for this discussion, it is good to hear salvation is not dependent on this doctrine I have been told in many Churches I have attended I was not saved and was a heretic and shunned.
You know Greek better than I, but my understanding is the word Godhead which was added in the 1500s was translated twice and is misleading. Godhead is in the Bible 3 times, Acts 17:29, Greek word theios which means divine, Romans 1:20, Greek word theiotes which means divinity, divine nature, and Colossians 2:9 Greek word Theotetos which means deity.
The verse Colossians 2:9, in Jesus, dwelleth all the fulness of the deity of God, Jesus was filled without measure with God's Spirit/Holy Spirit John 3:34. John the Baptist said God had told him when Jesus was anointed/baptized John 1:32-33. God dwelt in Jesus and empowered Him by the Spirit. God gave Jesus power and authority Matthew 11:27. In John 1:14 we probably differ, God in Jesus dwelt/tabernacled among us. God was manifest in Jesus, John 12:49 John 14:10.
Mark 2:5-8 in Matthew 11:25 Things were hidden from the wise and prudent, Scribes, Sadducees, and Pharisees were the ones accusing Jesus of blasphemy, as we see in Matthew 9:6-8, the same event multitudes glorified God. Jesus was given full authority in Matthew 28:18 and John 17:2-3 that we should know the only true God and Jesus Christ whom the Father sent, same as all the introductions, greetings, and blessings given to the followers of Christ in the New Testament were from God our Father and our Lord Jesus Christ and in Revelation 21:22.
All authority has been given to Jesus by the Father until the last enemy, death is put under His feet, 1 Corinthians 15:25-28 Revelation 20:14.
May our discussion inspire study.
God bless,
RLW
Why the KJV translators chose to use the term "Godhead," I do not know. Other English translations also use the term Godhead. Where I see the phrase "fullness of the Godhead" being applied to Jesus, this tells me that He is the fullness of God who came in the flesh (in bodily form).
Colossians 1:19 says that it pleased the Father that in Him (Jesus) should all fullness dwell. So, in Christ dwells all of the fullness of who God is. All of the fullness of "Deity" dwells in the body of Jesus. God in His fullness was in Christ.
In Hebrews 1:3, speaking of Jesus, it says "Who being the brightness of His glory." The word brightness is literally translated out beam. APAUGASMA is the Greek word. It means the out beam of His (God's) glory. It is a technical term describing God projecting Himself through the time/space factor, and taking up residency in the person of Christ, yet while still being God.
In the Greek language, there are two words that are used to describe Christ and the process of God coming into this world. So, if I combine APAUGASMA with EICON, which is the word image, it's the same terminology in the Greek language that is talking about the source of light and power remaining the same. Jesus Christ who is the image (EICON), of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature.
What this is telling me is that Jesus Christ is the projection of God through the time space barrier and has taken up residency amongst us as a human being, while never being separate from the source. This is the function of God. Jesus Christ is the projection of the glory of God. He is the APAUGASMA of God's glory. He is God who has projected Himself through time and space and has residency amongst us.
Ronald, I know we are probably going to remain in disagreement on this one, although I do enjoy our discussion. Please know that I am not ignoring your questions. I will take them into consideration as I continue on in my studies.
God Bless!!!
God bless you.
I have enjoyed as well.
God bless,
RLW
Interesting conversation.
Your post caused me to want to ask you a few questions.
I hope you can answer them so I can better understand how you view our Lord, Jesus Christ.
Do you think Jesus is only a created human being?
Do you think that the Son of God did not exist before Jesus was conceived?
If you think that the Son of God existed before the conception of Jesus, do you believe He was created?
Do you worship Jesus?
Do you believe that Jesus is divine?
Your answers will help me to better converse with you on this topic. Thank you.
I understand this subject is hard to discuss in a short post, to cover all the many Scriptures, some seem the point one way and others the other way.
Do you think Jesus is only a created human being? Of course not, He is the Son of God, the Messiah, the anointed one, Jesus is our Lord, our savior whom God sent that shed His blood for the remission of our sins. Do I believe Jesus had a beginning the answer is yes.
Do you think that the Son of God did not exist before Jesus was conceived? If you think that the Son of God existed before the conception of Jesus, do you believe He was created?
Hard to answer, Scripture tells us Jesus was the beginning of the creation of God, Rev. 3:4. Jesus could not be a timeless eternal Son and be the beginning of the creation of God, God has no beginning. 1 Peter 1:18-20 Jesus was "foreordained before the foundation of the world but was manifest in these last times for you". If created means to bring into existence the answer would have to be yes.
Do you worship Jesus? Jesus is the mediator between God and us He is the only way to the Father and is worthy of worship and honor Him, Philippians 2:10.
Do you believe that Jesus is divine? If divine means Jesus is God my answer is no. Jesus is the Son of God our Savior, Messiah, King, in being those He is divine.
Hope this is what you were needing.
God bless,
RLW
I appreciate your candid replies.
Thanks for your reply. I will do my best to answer and give my understanding, it is an important discussion and to clearly explain my understanding even if we disagree. It will probably be sometime tomorrow, just want you to know I will reply.
God bless,
RLW
From Jesus' own mouth He claimed to be divine and equal with God, Or (I AM YHWH) when He said He was the Son of God. when Jesus said He was the Son of Man, no one got very upset over that, but when He claimed to be God's Son, the Jews knew that He was claiming deity and were sorely vexed for they thought that Jesus was committing blasphemy. They thought that Jesus was showing great dishonor to God by claiming to be of the same kind as the Father, that is the same in substance as the LORD the Jews revered.
Amen! In John Chapter 1, there are three principles I see being taught about Jesus. Not in the beginning, but EN ARCHAE (In beginning), Jesus was in existence, and in equality, and in essence.
Existence - The only begotten Son Existed in the bosom of the Father.
Equality - Bosom of the Father means that He is one with Him.
Essence - God in human form.
In other words, if anybody wants to know about God, they go to Jesus Christ. He is not just a prophet. He's not just a rabbi. In the Christian faith and Biblical Christianity, He is God in the flesh, 100% God, 100% man!
God Bless!!!
Jesus is still asking that question today!
( Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?)
I believe we have to know who he is and what he did to exercise faith.
Flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto Peter, but the Father which is in heaven.
No man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?
He would be the anointing of God!!
That's an huge difference from being the anointed one.
He's "THE ANOINTING OF GOD"
Also, "The Son of the living God."
His name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, THE MIGHTY GOD, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Isaiah 9:6.
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, THE ALMIGHTY.
The Almighty;= pantokratr
the all ruling that is God (as absolute and universal sovereign): - Almighty Omnipotent.
Revelation 1:8.
God bless you.
Very well said. I like that you included Revelation 1:8. These are the words of the Lord Jesus Christ. He says, "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending." Alpha and Omega are the first and last letters of the Greek alphabet. As it says here, it is the beginning of the alphabet, and the end of the alphabet.
It is interesting that if you've ever studied the Hebrew sages and their interest in the beginning and end of the alphabet, in between those two, you have all the letters you need to express and put things into words and communicate with. So, they put a lot of emphasis on the alphabet. God is said to be the Alpha and Omega. He is the beginning of everything, and He is the end of everything.
But that's only one meaning. By using the first and last letters of the alphabet, it's also saying He's everything else in between. He's everything that you can put into words about creation and God. He's everything. He's at the beginning of everything, at the end of everything, and He's everything in between!
But then He repeats. After He says I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, He adds the phrase the Almighty. Wait a minute. That's from God the Father up in Revelation 1:4. Now Jesus is saying it. Very interesting!
Jesus says I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, the one who is, and was, and is to come. I am the almighty. Literally in the Greek text, it's the one who is, the one who was, and the one who is coming. It's all one person!
To the Jews, that's a designation of God. It's an expanded paraphrase of the name of God that God gave to Moses back in Exodus 3:14. And so that's why when we go through the gospels, whenever Jesus would say to people I AM, and of course the translators of the bible put "he" in italics to complete the sentence, only Jesus wasn't saying a sentence. He wasn't saying I am He. He was saying the name of God, I AM!
God Bless
God bless you
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