What does that mean and can anyone born of Adam do it?
If it means to judge against it or to sentence it. What is required to achieve this? Christ!
THE FACT THAT JESUS CAME IN THE FLESH AND LIVED A PERFECT LIFE APART FROM SIN DOESN'T DIRECTLY MEAN "CONDEMNED SIN IN THE FLESH"
It's the fact that he in doing so, he destroyed the power and penalty of sin is where and how he condemned sin.
(For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.) Romans 8:2,
Adam was a living soul.
There are those born of Adam. "At one time we all were"
Jesus "A quickening spirit" ( God manifested in the flesh,) Born from above! "God/Christ spirit".
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
GOD MANIFESTED IN THE FLESH.
This life giving spirit of God in the flesh could not sin.
Christ didn't become a life giving spirit at Calvary.
Christ was a perfect Lamb "led" to slaughter. He didn't "become" perfect at Calvary!
An unblemished Lamb chosen for sacrifice is perfect before you sacrifice him.
Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; Hebrews 2:14.
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
Christ done what the law could not do. Condemn sin in the weak flesh.
This is the sin in our members that Paul speaks of in Romans 7:23.
Your post made me think of the Scriptures that tell us that the Son of God, our Lord Jesus Christ was slain before creation Rev. 13:8. This speaks to the eternity Jesus possesses with the Father and the Spirit. Before anything was created, God was. The Father Son and Holy Spirit in one another as One God forever. How wonderful to consider.
But to think of the covenant made before creation for the Son to be the Savior of mankind through being slain on our behalf from before time began is sobering. We cannot imagine how that can be since we are bound by time and space. But God showed John in Revelation that this is so. How great God is, how merciful, how gracious to us.
It let's us know that this perfect Lamb was chosen with the foreknowledge of success.
It also let's us know that God knew Adam and every one after him would fall short. .
It gad to be the last Adam. .
A life giving Spirit!!
Not a living soul.
A quickening spirit that has no beginning or ending and took on flesh, ministered here on earth, gave his spirit to those who trust in him to become sons and daughters of God.
Then he returned to his former Glory that he had in the Godhead.
If I may ask, not to debate but just for my study and better understanding, Your reply to GiGi, It had to be the last Adam; A life-giving Spirit!! Not a living soul. This comes from 1 Corinthians 15, "the last Adam was made a quickening spirit". Forgive me if I misunderstood what you said (not a living soul).
I understand Jesus was made a quickening spirit when He was resurrected. What do you mean by not a living soul? My understanding is that in Hebrews 2:17-18Hebrews 14:21 John 4:2-3 would that not mean Jesus was a living soul like you and me except He was anointed without measure with the Spirit of God?
Brother S Spencer is correct that from the beginning Christ was perfect, being the image of his Father.
But the word says he LAID DOWN that perfection and took on the form of sinful flesh.
He walked in that condition until he was BAPTISED by his Father, having the fullness of his Father's Spirit poured out on him.
Isaiah 11:3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the Lord, and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, nor reprove after the hearing of his ears.
Job 25:4 How can man be justified with God? or how can he be clean that is born of a woman?
Hebrews 5:1 For every high priest (the man Jesus Christ) taken from among men is ordained for men in things pertaining to God, that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins,
Hebrews 5:2 That he can have compassion on the ignorant, and them that are out of (I am) THE WAY; for that he himself is compassed with infirmity.
Psalms 5:3 By reason thereof he ought, as for the people, so also for himself, to offer for sins.
Read Psalms 69, It's Christ speaking, this will open a whole new can of worms.
We are called out to preach truth, that's our job.
Causing them to believe is Christ's job.
Philippians 1:29...it is GIVEN to you on the behalf of Christ to BELIEVE....
They will believe man's teachings, but not Christ's teachings, to repent means change your beliefs.
Revelation 18:4 ..... come out of her my people .....
Most wont believe in this age, because God's word says they wont.
But when they are resurrected back to their flesh, at the second resurrection, and physically SEE all the Sons of God, those conformed to the Image of Christ, standing as JUDGES before them.
Because they refused to be healed by the stripes on Christ's back, they will receive the strips themselves.
I appreciate your comment here but I do disagree that Jesus was set aside His perfection. He was absolutely sinless. However, as God in the flesh, He did go through the normal growth process that occurs from conception to adulthood. He did get tired and hungry and his feelings were hurt by the words and behaviors of others. These are not imperfections due to sin, they are limitations Jesus took upon Himself in becoming human for us. His flesh was not sinful. He had no sin in his mind, soul will, spirit or body. But He came from the Father to live in this sinful realm and so was affected by the sin of the world, but did not partake of it by his own willful actions.
Earl, I hope you are doing well today. I remember you in my prayers and think of you often. Much love brother.
You gave your understanding that in Hebrews 2:17-18Hebrews 14:21 John 4:2-3 to mean that Jesus was a living soul like you and me except He was anointed without measure with the Spirit of God?
Ronald, I don't hold the view that Jesus was a living soul.
Jesus wasn't born of Adam. He was of the seed of the woman! (That is very different and have meaning of specially done! Something I want have time to get into at the moment. Perhaps others would.
You mentioned Hebrews 2:17-18, Hebrews 2:14 and 1 John 4:2-3. Those scriptures say the Jesus came in the flesh.
Yes, he did!
1 Timothy 3:16 tells us who came in the flesh and where he returned.
"And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
He came to condemn sin in the flesh as our Kinsman redeemer, something only he could do, "being of the seed of the woman" and not of Adam.
These are my beliefs Ronald.
I will speak on the kinsman Redeemer when time permits.
""Ronald, I don't hold the view that Jesus was a living soul." I certainly don't either. God gave Adam his soul when He breathed life into him. God did not breath His life into himself. Luke 1:35 tells us how the Holy Spirit came upon Mary for the birth of Jesus in a spiritual way not in the way of man.
Sorry for the delay, thank you for your reply. My understanding in Genesis when God breathed the breath of life into the first Adam he became a living soul. The Hebrew word is nephesh, that means a living being, Adam was not given a soul he became a living soul/being. Same as the last Adam Jesus the Messiah was conceived in the womb of Mary, Luke 1:31-33, and He was a living being/nephesh.
As the first Adam, Jesus came into this world without sin, but not like the first Adam He lived a perfect life without sin totally obedient to the Father even though He was tempted as you and me, Hebrews 4:14-15.
I think you and I are partly saying the same thing. I meant when God breathed His breath into Adam He made him a living soul. Adams soul was clean until he sinned and from then on a Savior was needed for mankind to have a cleansed soul again to enter heaven.
I am confused on what you said about Jesus, do you think He had a soul or He didn't? God is God. How can he have a soul even in His humanity? :)
I do not want to confuse you, I will give my understanding, and others may give theirs. You may find different views on the soul, go to the bible and with the Holy Spirit for your understanding. If we look at a soul, in Hebrew it is nephesh a living being, it can be a human being, an animal, or a living creature, as we see in Genesis 1:20 the word creatures is the word nephesh, the soul is who we are in our body.
When God breathed the breath of life into the body He formed out of the dust of the ground, that breath was the spirit that gave life to Adam and Adam became a living soul/being, the combination of a body and spirit. A soul is one's life, self, thoughts, desire, passion, appetite, and emotions. All of who we are inside our body is the soul, so yes Jesus had a soul, He was a soul, a living being. The soul is not some immaterial part of us that separates from our bodies when we die.
I hope this helps, like I said this is my understanding study for yours.
Thank you, there are different understandings of who Jesus was and is, whether He was a man born of a woman His Father being God, or the incarnation of the eternal Son the second member of a Triune God, fully man, and fully God. However, one believes Jesus was without sin from birth to death. There was no sin in Him, He did not commit any sin. He is the spotless Lamb that was slain for our sins. He lived a perfect life that no man has ever done or can do, before or after Him, 1 Peter 1:191 John 3:5.
Thank you for your replies I know you are a busy man and like I said this is not to debate but it would be grand to set at a kitchen table and discuss the Bible with you. I am honestly studying this for the truth. Just to make sure you know why I asked about not a living soul. My understanding of a living soul is what Adam was, what we are, and what Jesus was, human beings.
We are born with sin past down from the first Adam, both of our parents have sin that all humans have. Adam was created without sin but was disobedient therefore passing sin down to all mankind. The last Adam Jesus, the second man was born without sin because His Father is God, conceived in the womb of Mary, absolutely human without sin. As Adam was a living soul so was Jesus, a living soul born without sin.
It would be great to set at a kitchen table and discuss the Bible, but it would be difficult to discuss it without at least a friendly debate, especially on this topic.
You see we start off in our differences with who Jesus is, so we build around this doctrine differently. I believe there is one spirit and one God and he manifest himself in a mystery we cant explain "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness as 1 Timothy 3:16 says it. but the bible is clear on it.
Jesus is God in the flesh and I build from that point of view.
You said your understanding of a living soul is what Adam was, (I agree with that.) what we are, (I agree with that also.) and what Jesus was, (That I DON'T agree with.)
For starters Adam was "MADE" a living soul and we are descendants of Adam.
The scripture doesn't say that about Jesus. In fact, it doesn't even say Adam "was made" a quickening spirit.
was made is in italics.
It should read, "And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam a quickening spirit.
Here's a difference of many between the first and last Adam. In Genesis2:7 it reads "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
The first Adam had to have life breathed into him. The last Adam IS LIFE.
You said, "the second man was born without sin because His Father is God, conceived in the womb of Mary, absolutely human without sin. I agree.
We are not even debating on whether Jesus took on human flesh or not.
I'm saying he was in the bosom of the father before then. Ronald the scripture clearly says this.
I am sorry I am not worthy to discuss the Bible with you, I have been always respectful to you. I will leave our conversations with this. 2 Corinthians 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
In love my hope for you is the best and God bless,
Jema, this response and the one to Gus strike me as being snarky, but I may be wrong. What did you mean by each of them?
It is helpful if one gives a grounded explanation of their thoughts rather than a "quip" or a "jab" at others.
I find that for the most part, your responses are kindhearted, but these do not seem to be so. Why? For what purpose did you send them?
Please know that I respect you and I keep you in my prayers as I do so many on this site. I mean no harm in this post. It was just that these two posts seemed out of place and unedifying. I hope you can explain your thinking so I can better grasp what you were wishing to convey, not to be judgmental, so forgive me if it seems to be to you.
Hello Gigi , sorry if you are confused by my comments but they were for the individuals that I posted them to . If they had been to or for any and every one I would have just put them as new comments . Obviously we are all able to read all comments , as long as the people that I posted them to know what I meant by them , I'm happy .
OK Jema, thanks for your reply. You were referring to people other than the one you posted to, so they were also directed at these people in a derogatory manner. So, I still think that they need some explanation to the people referred to negatively in these posts. But if you choose not to do so, that is your choice.
I'm not sure what you mean by saying "you are not worthy to discuss the Bible with me"
Also, "We" have always been respectful with each other.
I said it would be great to set at a kitchen table and discuss the Bible, but it would be difficult to discuss it without at least a friendly debate, especially on this topic.
Considering the context of this thread my point of view is based on the following.
GOD MANIFESTED IN THE FLESH.
This life giving spirit of God in the flesh could not sin.
Christ didn't become a life giving spirit at Calvary.
Christ was a perfect Lamb "led" to slaughter. He didn't "become" perfect at Calvary!
An unblemished Lamb chosen for sacrifice is perfect before you sacrifice him.
My comments in this thread is based around the belief in the triune God.
What I said is that this topic would be difficult to discuss without a friendly debate being your theology is built on Jesus not being God.
We are just sharing our different view points that we both are aware of, which we have done in the past.
I can't discuss this tonight because I live in the eastern time zone and I probably go to bed a lot earlier than most of you.
I will attempt to show how Jesus is our Kinsman redeemer is tied into why Christ came into the flesh and condemned sin in the flesh at a later date.
Ronald I don't get to read all the comments as I would like to but I haven't seen you get attacked for your beliefs anymore than those with the opposing beliefs.
In fact it seems you are asking most of the questions on the opposing beliefs and you have been getting friendly dogmatic answers.
I apologize; I took "but it would be difficult to discuss it without at least a friendly debate" the wrong way I do not want to offend. Who Jesus was and is, is most important.
Thank you brother, I also consider you as a brother, sorry for the brain flub, nicely put. The truth is what is important and the care we have for each other, and our goal is not to cause division but inspire each other to study that we grow and walk in the light of the truth.
I was relating to Gigi's insert of Revelation 13:8. It parallels with 1 Peter 1:19-21 "But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
I don't believe Jesus had a mission to complete to "become" the unblemished Lamb of God. He existed in the realm of eternity in the God head before he took on flesh.
You are correct, I was referring to 1 Corinthians 15.
And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
(JESUS, A LIFE GIVING SPIRIT) In John 14:6-7 Jesus said "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
Jesus said this before he was crucified and resurrected.
Verses 47-49
The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
Jesus was the Heavenly before the foundation of the world, he didn't have to wait on the resurrection to be what he already is.
Jesus didn't have a mission to complete to "become" the unblemished Lamb of God.
Jesus took on the sins of the whole world. (THAT MEANS MADE AVAILABLE)
When we are born again "BORN OF GOD'S SPIRIT" We are saved!
We can no longer be charged with sin. 1 John 3:9.
The Holyspirit quicken these mortal bodies so we no longer "SERVE" sin. Romans 8:9-14.
There is no way for a child of Adam to be saved apart from being born from above. He was born with an inherited sin nature.
Unlike Jesus, we have to be born "Again" JESUS NEVER HAD TO DO THAT!
He was conceived of the Holyspirit. Matthew 1:20.
The penalty of sin was Judged/condemned/sentenced in the flesh. (In other words it was sin that was on trial, Not Jesus!
I believe that's what that phrase means. (Condemned sin in the flesh)
The meaning is separate from Jesus taking our judgment on the cross.
There is one event but two trials taken place here.
1) Our sins being Judged.
2) The penalty of sin, which is Death.
And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
What does that mean and can anyone born of Adam do it?
If it means to judge against it or to sentence it. What is required to achieve this? Christ!
THE FACT THAT JESUS CAME IN THE FLESH AND LIVED A PERFECT LIFE APART FROM SIN DOESN'T DIRECTLY MEAN "CONDEMNED SIN IN THE FLESH"
It's the fact that he in doing so, he destroyed the power and penalty of sin is where and how he condemned sin.
(For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.) Romans 8:2,
Adam was a living soul.
There are those born of Adam. "At one time we all were"
Jesus "A quickening spirit" ( God manifested in the flesh,) Born from above! "God/Christ spirit".
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
GOD MANIFESTED IN THE FLESH.
This life giving spirit of God in the flesh could not sin.
Christ didn't become a life giving spirit at Calvary.
Christ was a perfect Lamb "led" to slaughter. He didn't "become" perfect at Calvary!
An unblemished Lamb chosen for sacrifice is perfect before you sacrifice him.
Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; Hebrews 2:14.
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
Christ done what the law could not do. Condemn sin in the weak flesh.
This is the sin in our members that Paul speaks of in Romans 7:23.
God bless.
We have always discussed doctrine with the intention to grow spiritually.
Just remember a few years ago I said I was happy to call you my brother and that still remains and I'm happy you consider me a Brother as well.
I'm sure others fill that way.
When these such things causes hatred amongst the Brothern then there's an BIG issue.
Beware of those who cause divisions.
I will be reaching out to you during the week
God bless.
Your post made me think of the Scriptures that tell us that the Son of God, our Lord Jesus Christ was slain before creation Rev. 13:8. This speaks to the eternity Jesus possesses with the Father and the Spirit. Before anything was created, God was. The Father Son and Holy Spirit in one another as One God forever. How wonderful to consider.
But to think of the covenant made before creation for the Son to be the Savior of mankind through being slain on our behalf from before time began is sobering. We cannot imagine how that can be since we are bound by time and space. But God showed John in Revelation that this is so. How great God is, how merciful, how gracious to us.
I meant very Good Scripture.
" Rev. 13:8."
That's a very scripture.
It let's us know that this perfect Lamb was chosen with the foreknowledge of success.
It also let's us know that God knew Adam and every one after him would fall short. .
It gad to be the last Adam. .
A life giving Spirit!!
Not a living soul.
A quickening spirit that has no beginning or ending and took on flesh, ministered here on earth, gave his spirit to those who trust in him to become sons and daughters of God.
Then he returned to his former Glory that he had in the Godhead.
God bless.
If I may ask, not to debate but just for my study and better understanding, Your reply to GiGi, It had to be the last Adam; A life-giving Spirit!! Not a living soul. This comes from 1 Corinthians 15, "the last Adam was made a quickening spirit". Forgive me if I misunderstood what you said (not a living soul).
I understand Jesus was made a quickening spirit when He was resurrected. What do you mean by not a living soul? My understanding is that in Hebrews 2:17-18 Hebrews 14:2 1 John 4:2-3 would that not mean Jesus was a living soul like you and me except He was anointed without measure with the Spirit of God?
Thanks, brother,
God bless,
RLW
I agree with you.
Brother S Spencer is correct that from the beginning Christ was perfect, being the image of his Father.
But the word says he LAID DOWN that perfection and took on the form of sinful flesh.
He walked in that condition until he was BAPTISED by his Father, having the fullness of his Father's Spirit poured out on him.
Isaiah 11:3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the Lord, and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, nor reprove after the hearing of his ears.
Job 25:4 How can man be justified with God? or how can he be clean that is born of a woman?
Hebrews 5:1 For every high priest (the man Jesus Christ) taken from among men is ordained for men in things pertaining to God, that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins,
Hebrews 5:2 That he can have compassion on the ignorant, and them that are out of (I am) THE WAY; for that he himself is compassed with infirmity.
Psalms 5:3 By reason thereof he ought, as for the people, so also for himself, to offer for sins.
Read Psalms 69, It's Christ speaking, this will open a whole new can of worms.
God Bless You
We are called out to preach truth, that's our job.
Causing them to believe is Christ's job.
Philippians 1:29...it is GIVEN to you on the behalf of Christ to BELIEVE....
They will believe man's teachings, but not Christ's teachings, to repent means change your beliefs.
Revelation 18:4 ..... come out of her my people .....
Most wont believe in this age, because God's word says they wont.
But when they are resurrected back to their flesh, at the second resurrection, and physically SEE all the Sons of God, those conformed to the Image of Christ, standing as JUDGES before them.
Because they refused to be healed by the stripes on Christ's back, they will receive the strips themselves.
Luke 12:47
Deuteronomy 25:3
Psalms 149:5-9
FEW find the way.
God Bless you!
I appreciate your comment here but I do disagree that Jesus was set aside His perfection. He was absolutely sinless. However, as God in the flesh, He did go through the normal growth process that occurs from conception to adulthood. He did get tired and hungry and his feelings were hurt by the words and behaviors of others. These are not imperfections due to sin, they are limitations Jesus took upon Himself in becoming human for us. His flesh was not sinful. He had no sin in his mind, soul will, spirit or body. But He came from the Father to live in this sinful realm and so was affected by the sin of the world, but did not partake of it by his own willful actions.
Earl, I hope you are doing well today. I remember you in my prayers and think of you often. Much love brother.
Part 2.
You gave your understanding that in Hebrews 2:17-18 Hebrews 14:2 1 John 4:2-3 to mean that Jesus was a living soul like you and me except He was anointed without measure with the Spirit of God?
Ronald, I don't hold the view that Jesus was a living soul.
Jesus wasn't born of Adam. He was of the seed of the woman! (That is very different and have meaning of specially done! Something I want have time to get into at the moment. Perhaps others would.
You mentioned Hebrews 2:17-18, Hebrews 2:14 and 1 John 4:2-3. Those scriptures say the Jesus came in the flesh.
Yes, he did!
1 Timothy 3:16 tells us who came in the flesh and where he returned.
"And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
He came to condemn sin in the flesh as our Kinsman redeemer, something only he could do, "being of the seed of the woman" and not of Adam.
These are my beliefs Ronald.
I will speak on the kinsman Redeemer when time permits.
God bless.
Sorry for the delay, thank you for your reply. My understanding in Genesis when God breathed the breath of life into the first Adam he became a living soul. The Hebrew word is nephesh, that means a living being, Adam was not given a soul he became a living soul/being. Same as the last Adam Jesus the Messiah was conceived in the womb of Mary, Luke 1:31-33, and He was a living being/nephesh.
As the first Adam, Jesus came into this world without sin, but not like the first Adam He lived a perfect life without sin totally obedient to the Father even though He was tempted as you and me, Hebrews 4:14-15.
God bless,
RLW
I am confused on what you said about Jesus, do you think He had a soul or He didn't? God is God. How can he have a soul even in His humanity? :)
I do not want to confuse you, I will give my understanding, and others may give theirs. You may find different views on the soul, go to the bible and with the Holy Spirit for your understanding. If we look at a soul, in Hebrew it is nephesh a living being, it can be a human being, an animal, or a living creature, as we see in Genesis 1:20 the word creatures is the word nephesh, the soul is who we are in our body.
When God breathed the breath of life into the body He formed out of the dust of the ground, that breath was the spirit that gave life to Adam and Adam became a living soul/being, the combination of a body and spirit. A soul is one's life, self, thoughts, desire, passion, appetite, and emotions. All of who we are inside our body is the soul, so yes Jesus had a soul, He was a soul, a living being. The soul is not some immaterial part of us that separates from our bodies when we die.
I hope this helps, like I said this is my understanding study for yours.
God bless,
RLW
If we are all searching for truth.
1 John 5:16 .... there is a sin unto death ....
1 John 5:17 .... there is a sin NOT unto death .....
In all the scriptures that say Christ was without sin, I believe it was the SIN UNTO DEATH that he was not guilty of committing.
This is the same sin we cannot commit if we are born of God.
1 John 3:9
This is the same sin the spirit of truth will reprove the world of.
John 16:8-9
This is the same sin Job was not guilty of.
There is to many scripture in Psalms that say he was every much flesh as we are.
God Bless you
Thank you, there are different understandings of who Jesus was and is, whether He was a man born of a woman His Father being God, or the incarnation of the eternal Son the second member of a Triune God, fully man, and fully God. However, one believes Jesus was without sin from birth to death. There was no sin in Him, He did not commit any sin. He is the spotless Lamb that was slain for our sins. He lived a perfect life that no man has ever done or can do, before or after Him, 1 Peter 1:19 1 John 3:5.
God bless,
RLW
QUESTION?
What is a Son of God?
Are you a Son of God?
Who and what made you a Son of God?
What does it mean to be a Son pf God?
Is there only one Son of God?
Thank you for your replies I know you are a busy man and like I said this is not to debate but it would be grand to set at a kitchen table and discuss the Bible with you. I am honestly studying this for the truth. Just to make sure you know why I asked about not a living soul. My understanding of a living soul is what Adam was, what we are, and what Jesus was, human beings.
We are born with sin past down from the first Adam, both of our parents have sin that all humans have. Adam was created without sin but was disobedient therefore passing sin down to all mankind. The last Adam Jesus, the second man was born without sin because His Father is God, conceived in the womb of Mary, absolutely human without sin. As Adam was a living soul so was Jesus, a living soul born without sin.
God bless,
RLW
It would be great to set at a kitchen table and discuss the Bible, but it would be difficult to discuss it without at least a friendly debate, especially on this topic.
You see we start off in our differences with who Jesus is, so we build around this doctrine differently. I believe there is one spirit and one God and he manifest himself in a mystery we cant explain "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness as 1 Timothy 3:16 says it. but the bible is clear on it.
Jesus is God in the flesh and I build from that point of view.
You said your understanding of a living soul is what Adam was, (I agree with that.) what we are, (I agree with that also.) and what Jesus was, (That I DON'T agree with.)
For starters Adam was "MADE" a living soul and we are descendants of Adam.
The scripture doesn't say that about Jesus. In fact, it doesn't even say Adam "was made" a quickening spirit.
was made is in italics.
It should read, "And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam a quickening spirit.
Here's a difference of many between the first and last Adam. In Genesis2:7 it reads "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
The first Adam had to have life breathed into him. The last Adam IS LIFE.
You said, "the second man was born without sin because His Father is God, conceived in the womb of Mary, absolutely human without sin. I agree.
We are not even debating on whether Jesus took on human flesh or not.
I'm saying he was in the bosom of the father before then. Ronald the scripture clearly says this.
Thanks again Ronald.
God bless.
I am sorry I am not worthy to discuss the Bible with you, I have been always respectful to you. I will leave our conversations with this. 2 Corinthians 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
In love my hope for you is the best and God bless,
RLW
It is helpful if one gives a grounded explanation of their thoughts rather than a "quip" or a "jab" at others.
I find that for the most part, your responses are kindhearted, but these do not seem to be so. Why? For what purpose did you send them?
Please know that I respect you and I keep you in my prayers as I do so many on this site. I mean no harm in this post. It was just that these two posts seemed out of place and unedifying. I hope you can explain your thinking so I can better grasp what you were wishing to convey, not to be judgmental, so forgive me if it seems to be to you.
I'm not sure what you mean by saying "you are not worthy to discuss the Bible with me"
Also, "We" have always been respectful with each other.
I said it would be great to set at a kitchen table and discuss the Bible, but it would be difficult to discuss it without at least a friendly debate, especially on this topic.
Considering the context of this thread my point of view is based on the following.
GOD MANIFESTED IN THE FLESH.
This life giving spirit of God in the flesh could not sin.
Christ didn't become a life giving spirit at Calvary.
Christ was a perfect Lamb "led" to slaughter. He didn't "become" perfect at Calvary!
An unblemished Lamb chosen for sacrifice is perfect before you sacrifice him.
My comments in this thread is based around the belief in the triune God.
What I said is that this topic would be difficult to discuss without a friendly debate being your theology is built on Jesus not being God.
We are just sharing our different view points that we both are aware of, which we have done in the past.
I can't discuss this tonight because I live in the eastern time zone and I probably go to bed a lot earlier than most of you.
I will attempt to show how Jesus is our Kinsman redeemer is tied into why Christ came into the flesh and condemned sin in the flesh at a later date.
Ronald I don't get to read all the comments as I would like to but I haven't seen you get attacked for your beliefs anymore than those with the opposing beliefs.
In fact it seems you are asking most of the questions on the opposing beliefs and you have been getting friendly dogmatic answers.
Thanks again and God bless.
I apologize; I took "but it would be difficult to discuss it without at least a friendly debate" the wrong way I do not want to offend. Who Jesus was and is, is most important.
God bless,
RLW
Somehow I sent it to myself.
"No Problem Brother.
We have always discussed doctrine with the intention to grow spiritually.
Just remember a few years ago I said I was happy to call you my brother and that still remains and I'm happy you consider me a Brother as well.
I'm sure others fill that way.
When these such things causes hatred amongst the Brothern then there's an BIG issue.
Beware of those who cause divisions.
I will be reaching out to you during the week
God bless.
Thank you brother, I also consider you as a brother, sorry for the brain flub, nicely put. The truth is what is important and the care we have for each other, and our goal is not to cause division but inspire each other to study that we grow and walk in the light of the truth.
God bless,
RLW
Part 1
I was relating to Gigi's insert of Revelation 13:8. It parallels with 1 Peter 1:19-21 "But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
I don't believe Jesus had a mission to complete to "become" the unblemished Lamb of God. He existed in the realm of eternity in the God head before he took on flesh.
You are correct, I was referring to 1 Corinthians 15.
And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
(JESUS, A LIFE GIVING SPIRIT) In John 14:6-7 Jesus said "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
Jesus said this before he was crucified and resurrected.
Verses 47-49
The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
Jesus was the Heavenly before the foundation of the world, he didn't have to wait on the resurrection to be what he already is.
The resurrection proved he is who he says he is.
We are baptized into eternal life!
Thats his life!
Eternal has no beginning nor ending!
Running out of space, See part 2.
Jesus took on the sins of the whole world. (THAT MEANS MADE AVAILABLE)
When we are born again "BORN OF GOD'S SPIRIT" We are saved!
We can no longer be charged with sin. 1 John 3:9.
The Holyspirit quicken these mortal bodies so we no longer "SERVE" sin. Romans 8:9-14.
There is no way for a child of Adam to be saved apart from being born from above. He was born with an inherited sin nature.
Unlike Jesus, we have to be born "Again" JESUS NEVER HAD TO DO THAT!
He was conceived of the Holyspirit. Matthew 1:20.
The penalty of sin was Judged/condemned/sentenced in the flesh. (In other words it was sin that was on trial, Not Jesus!
I believe that's what that phrase means. (Condemned sin in the flesh)
The meaning is separate from Jesus taking our judgment on the cross.
There is one event but two trials taken place here.
1) Our sins being Judged.
2) The penalty of sin, which is Death.
And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Corinthians 15:49-57.
God bless.
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