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Warning: session_start(): Failed to read session data: files (path: /var/lib/lsphp/session/lsphp80) in /home/kjv.site/public_html/Discussion-Thread/index.php on line 2 BIBLE DISCUSSION THREAD 224592
BELIEVE in Jesus Christ as the true God incarnate. That His death and resurrection provided the sacrificial blood for forgiveness of mankind's sin so that the soul may be in His Prescence for eternity.
ASK Jesus, with a sincere heart, for forgiveness of your sins and accept Him into your heart as your personal Savior.
Then you will have the leading of the Holy Spirit to want to live a sin free, holy life.
The Holy Spirit will lead you into a heartfelt desire to read and study His word; the 1611 King James Bible. It tells us who God is and that He, and He, alone is the Creator of everything.
God is to be loved and Obeyed.
Always, your heart should be turned toward GOD and the things of God.
Don't let yourself be fooled by ANY of the modern, corrupt translations. of the "bible." Stick to the 1611 KJB.
The Word of God tells us who God is and that He, and He, alone is the Creator of everything.
Read the bible diligently and consistently through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit after salvation until you go home to Him.
God is to be loved and Obeyed.
The bible is a wonderful book with stories, lessons and much Knowledge for God's people. Whether we sleep until He brings us into His Prescence, or we go straight to His Prescence when our soul leaves our body, we are His forever if we choose to live holy and be obedient to Him.
This is a straight, and narrow path and not many will and follow it because God gave man a free will to choose Him and His way or to choose the devil, through self will, and his way.
It really is that simple to live and understand as long as we put ourselves under the blood of Jesus Christ our Lord.
I refer you to the reply I gave to Momsage concerning my knowledge of the teachings and practices of the Catholic Church.
I do know of the doctrines you listed and others that you have not that I think to be erroneous.
So, Hadassah, I am not as ignorant as you seem to imply. I am very well informed about the Catholic Church and other sects as I have spent much time studying this topic over the past 50 years.
Just an aside, when I was very young (9 or so) I began to read the Bible for myself. No one else encouraged me to do so at that age, though I was brought up in a traditional church that read scripture every Sunday service. Soon after that, when I was in 5th grade I determined that I only wanted to read what was true, so I stopped reading fiction books and instead read the Bible, because I knew it was true and I began to read biographies and science books, I read the dictionary, encyclopedias, history books. I was very hungry to know the truth about God, my world, and many other subjects. I was a devourer of such literature. This hunger has continued all my life.
But this knowledge does not set me apart from any other believer. We are all on the same journey towards God to come to know Him in Spirit and in truth. As I said to Momsage, in this life we know dimly or darkly) as Paul put it, but in the life to come we will know fully. We all have need of having our doctrine corrected and deepened.
We know that we are of GOD, and the whole world lieth in wickedness. And we know that the Son of GOD is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know Him that is True, and we are in Him that is True, even in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life - 1John 5:19-20
John 1:11-13
11 JESUS came unto His own, and His own received Him not.
12 But as many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the sons of GOD, even to them that believe on His NAME:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of GOD.
For people of non speaking English nationalities: use any Bible that had its translation in the Textus Receptus. Many Bibles, from the early 1900's and earlier might be good translations. (The king James was translated from the Textus Receptus).
The problem entered when the Vatican started messing around with the Bible, omitting things, altering things, adding things in order to support their doctrine. The Vatican system is the beast. All the early Protestant fathers knew that fact and wrote about it.
Yes Hadassah, I believe that folk today who don't have English as their primary language/mother tongue, have no other option than to use the translation undertaken for their language. This maybe from Bible Societies or Bible translators, and I strongly suspect that these folk won't be using the KJB or another version taken from the Textus Receptus, rather from a more modern translation that would also make their job a lot easier.
A case in point, that I've shared here before: when ministering in Pakistan back in the late 80's, I was giving a Bible study to a small Church group & 1 John 4:10, "Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins" was one of many references that was given. I had to use a Urdu translator (a brother in Christ) for this study, since my Urdu proficiency is woefully inadequate, & I had checked with him on some of our more 'difficult' biblical English words, e.g. 'propitiation'. He told me that in Urdu it is 'kafara' which in English is 'atonement'. But when I asked if 'kafara' could mean anything else to him (as we understand it in English), he replied, 'no other meaning at all'; they had no word in Urdu for 'propitiation', which meant that the translators made no effort to maybe give the proper meaning as a footnote, for example.
So Christians in Pakistan & parts of N. India actually miss out on receiving the full Truth & value of verses such as 1 John 4:10, thinking that the Gift of God's Son had atonement as its only message - they had no idea, because of a bad translation, that Jesus not only died for mankind's sins, but that He also bore the Wrath of God upon Himself that was actually destined for us. That by believing on Jesus, both our sins have been forgiven & God's Anger has been averted. Now not only lacking in Urdu, but I wonder how many other foreign language translations are denying Christians the full & accurate Words of God given for them.
Do you know that the translators of the KJV used a Bible composed by Erasmus, a Catholic priest in the times of the reformation in their translation?
So your are saying that the KJV translators used a corrupt version in their work.
It is fine to discuss the topic of the validity of translations based on facts, but not on an obvious vehement bias towards the Catholic church as you have shown in your post. I am not defending the Catholic Church here. Just saying that your argument would be better received if you left out the hate and based your viewpoint on factual information.
"Do you know that the translators of the KJV used a Bible composed by Erasmus, a Catholic priest in the times of the reformation in their translation?"
Answer: Yes. I know.
"So your are saying that the KJV translators used a corrupt version in their work."
Answer: No. Where in my posts have I said that the KJV translators used a corrupt version?
"It is fine to discuss the topic of the validity of translations based on facts, but not on an obvious vehement bias towards the Catholic church as you have shown in your post. I am not defending the Catholic Church here. Just saying that your argument would be better received if you left out the hate and based your viewpoint on factual information. "
Answer: The topic of Bible translations and how they came about is an hours and hours long study comprising volumes of reading material. This site is for quick comments not lengthy dissertations. You are accusing me of hate but that is quite unfair. There is nothing in my posts indicating hate of the Catholic people. However, the Catholic/vatican/Papacy is antichrist. The system is the Beast. It was identified as so by the Protestant church fathers. And, that Gigi, is a fact.
"O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12
I never said that you were showing hate to people who practice Catholicism, but towards the Catholic Church.
It is a fact that many of the leaders of the reformation thought that the papacy was the Antichrist, but it is actually a fact that the Catholic church, Vatican, and papacy are the antichrist is not yet proven as fact.
I think it is more helpful to point out the errors taught by the Catholic Church or any other sect than to speak as though the entire body of teachings of the Catholic Church or other sects are erroneous and evil.
Being precise in this manner shows facts instead of emotion filled vitriol.
Erasmus, King James, and His Translators (Part 1 of 3)
By David H. Sorenson
Erasmus thus became an enigma. He slowly but surely shifted away from Catholic theology, but stopped short of joining with Luther. He attacked the Roman Catholic Church, but never officially left it. Part of this confusion is to be found in the personal temperament of Erasmus. Whereas Luther had the temperament to stand and thunder, "Here I stand, I can do no other," Erasmus was more timorous. He was not an open fighter. His battling was through his pen. Whereas Luther eventually was excommunicated from the Catholic Church, Erasmus tried to reform it from within. [5] Whereas Luther became a "come-outer," Erasmus remained a "stay-inner." He would have been better served to follow Luther's example. However, he did not. He thus became a target from both sides. The establishment of the Catholic Church detested him. Most of the Reformers were suspicious of him as well.
Erasmus is a fascinating character in the lineage of the Received Text of the New Testament. His Greek New Testament, without doubt, was the catalyst which sparked the Reformation. He was a Catholic at the beginning of the Reformation. However, as he continued to search the Scriptures, he increasingly became less and less Catholic in his position. By the time he died in 1536, he had virtually become an Anabaptist in his theology. To his demerit, he never officially left the Catholic Church. However, when he died, it was not in the arms of Rome. Rather, in 1534, he returned to Basel, Switzerland, and two years later died in the midst of his Protestant friends, "without relations of any sort, so far as known with the Roman Catholic Church." [9]
Hello GiGi: Nice to talk to you. I would like to respond to your reply to Hadassah about his comment on how "the Vatican started messing around with the Bible, omitting things, altering things, adding things in order to support their doctrine." I'm apologize if my comment is also upsetting to you, although, I'm glad you weren't defending the Catholic Church.
Basically, I loath the DOCTRINE of Catholicism, it is an evil, false doctrine that has sent many, many poor souls to hell. I loath any false doctrine that deceives souls to damnation. Don't imagine that because I find the doctrines loathsome that it means I hate the people who believe in those doctrines because I love the souls who are being deceived. I grieve that they may not have eternal life with Jesus because they are not understanding the truth of His teachings and His salvation because their minds and hearts are so firmly held captive by those extremely deceitful teachings. :) Be Blessed, Ann
I so understand your intent concerning hating false doctrine. The Catholic Church has many correct doctrines that we should support, but also many false doctrines that we should denounce. We should not hold a blanket denunciation of the whole body of teaching of the Catholic Chruch, in my view. They have a very correct view of God as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, about the life and sacrificial death of Jesus and his resurrection.
I think it is important to point out where they did change the Scripture i.e. verses, phrases, words. (if they truly did
There are many false teachings in Protestant churches today. So, we should hate these as much as the ones taught in Catholicism. Whereas we do not blanketlike denounce these sects, we should not blanket like denounce the Catholic Church either.
Sects that teach that Jesus is Michael the archangel, that he is not the eternal Sonn of God, that he became divine at His baptism or crucifixion, that He is only filled with the Holy Spirit as we are but to the fullest and only human, that teach that the Holy Spirit is only a power or force, but not a person that can be interacted with, grieved, lied to, etc., that humans will become gods, that Jesus needed to be born again, that all persons will be saved eventually. These are all false teachings in my view. Some of these we find in sects like Mormonism, Jehovah Witnesses, but also in sects that many find to be within the Christian faith. There are those sects that teach that you must belong to their sect to be saved, such as Church of Christ, Plymouth Brethren, Catholic Church. And there are those who teach that you must be baptized in the Holy Spirit with evidence of speaking in tongues to be saves, such some Pentecostal churches.
So Momsage, there are many false teachings in numerous sects besides the Catholic Church. The language that you and Hadassah use towards the Catholic Church is hateful and generalized rather than specific. Compassion is needed.
What the Word of GOD says after weighing the content of your message, it is written in Isaiah 33:10-15:
10 Now will I rise, saith the Lord; now will I be exalted; now will I lift up myself.
11 Ye shall conceive chaff, ye shall bring forth stubble: your breath, as fire, shall devour you.
12 And the PEOPLE shall be as the burnings of lime: as thorns cut up shall they be burned in the fire.
13 Hear, ye that are far off (the GENTILE peoples), what I have done; and, ye that are near(the JEWISH people), acknowledge my might.
14 The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who AMONG US shall dwell with the devouring fire?(GOD is a devouring fire, understand?) who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?
15 He that walketh righteously, and speaketh uprightly; he that despiseth the gain of oppressions, that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes, that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood, and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil;
2 Peter 3:7&11-12&17-The heavens(the 1st and 2nd heavenly places in Christ- Ephesians 1:3-or 1st and 2nd Covenant-Old and New Testaments)and the earth(the current Israel infested of idolatries and sorceries,whose holy city is spiritually called Sodom and Egypt),which are now,by the same Word are kept in store,RESERVED UNTO FIRE against this Day of Judgment and perdition of ungodly men.(that is the seventh and last Day or seventh and last millennium)
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be DISSOLVED,what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the Day of GOD,wherein the heavens being on fire(GOD is a devouring fire) shall be DISSOLVED,and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
To JESUS Christ, our Saviour, to Him be Glory both now and for ever. Amen.
I am confused as to how it is fitting as an address to what I posted to Momsage. Can you please explain? I want to understand why you posted this to me.
You said to Momsage that there are many false teachings in Protestant churches today, so, we should hate these as much as the ones taught in Catholicism, and after you made an extense description of sects which have spread false and devilish doctrines.
Reading the content of your post, I was compelled to remember you and all that from now on GOD Almight will LITERALLY fulfill
His Word given to Isaiah about His WRATH against this current generation of satanic religions, and their respective devilish doctrines and teachings. As my GOD said- Isaiah 33:10-14-, Now will He rise, now will He be exalted; now will He lift up Himself.
My GOD is a devouring fire, understand? So the people shall be as the burnings of lime: as thorns cut up shall they be burned in the fire.
Now if any man build upon this foundation gold,silver,precious stones,wood,hay,stubble;Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it,because it shall be revealed by fire;and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is-1Cor.3:12-13.
2 Peter 3:7
&11-12&17-The heavens(the 1st and 2nd heavenly places in Christ- Ephesians 1:3-or 1st and 2nd Covenant-Old and New Testaments)and the earth(the current Israel infested of idolatries and sorceries,whose holy city is spiritually called Sodom and Egypt),which are now,by the same Word are kept in store,RESERVED UNTO FIRE against this Day of Judgment and perdition of ungodly men.(that is the seventh and last Day or seventh and last millennium)
11Seeing then that all these things shall be DISSOLVED,what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the Day of GOD,wherein the heavens being on fire(GOD is a devouring fire) shall be DISSOLVED,and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
17Ye therefore,beloved,seeing ye know these things before,beware lest ye also,being led away with the error of the wicked,fall from your own your own stedfastness.
What I said is that we are to hate any false doctrine no matter the sect. But that does not mean that we are to speak hatefully to those who are in these sects or to oppose ALL that is taught by such sects as long as the teaching is Scripturally sound. We can choose to not be members of such sects or to associate with those in these sects, nor should we recommend people to join them, but we are not to be hateful to them. We are to be winsome in our language to those in sects that teach things that are not in accord with Scripture, endeavoring to find common sound beliefs to speak with them about in hopes of drawing them to the Scriptures to seek more truth.
As for the rest of your post to me, I guess that I really do not have much more to address of it. I hope you have a good day, Oseas.
I hope you'll let me be straight with you. I mean no offense but perhaps you overlooked the part in my comment where I said I loathed ALL false doctrines but loved and grieved over the poor souls that are deceived by them. Well I did, and I do. I think that's compassion. You once said you didn't defend the Catholic Church but it seems that you are. Defending a false doctrine so people who are immersed in them can be placated is very harmful. One false teaching is idolatry, among so many other things, and the people have such a heartfelt desire to believe in that. They may get truly saved by someone's witness but if they continue to commit that idolatry, like praying the rosary and lighting candles to false gods, they will be like the seed that fell on the wayside and the fowls (idolatry) devoured them Matthew 13:4. I was raised a Catholic, had to stick with it until I left home because my mother asked me too. That was a while ago but I have kept up with it's influence in the world and it is getting worse and worse as time goes on. I would never say the Pope was the antichrist. I would never say anyone is the antichrist. To me that is not wise. As to the part of the Catholic doctrine being true, Jesus said "you can't serve two masters - Matthew 6:24. One will be hated and the other loved. The scriptures also says in Galatians 5:9 " a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump." A little false doctrine ruins the whole doctrine. Catholics believe in the one true God but idolize the Pope. They worship Mary and a whole slew of other dead people, salvation is obtained by good works, etc. I think you understand. All false doctrines probably have a little bit of truth mixed in. That's how the devil in lures souls in. Might I suggest you study the doctrines of Catholicism. See if they don't teach many things contrary to what the KJB teaches. You can find them on a Catholic Church website so you will know they are the true teachings. God Bless :)
Again, Just because I have read much from Christian leaders across time does not mean I think they are correct in everything they write. But it makes me think deeply and check out their ideas against Scripture and with the Holy Spirit's help discern what is correct and what is false. But I, too, do not have perfect doctrine in all matters and am constantly learning and correcting my beliefs, which I think all of us should do.
I understand your concern. When Jesus said, H"You cannot serve two masters he was speaking of God and Mammon" (money, riches), so I do not think it is an apt verse to this conversation. Even so, it is true that we should not have divided loyalties.
As to the false teachings of the Catholic church, I do not defend them in any way even as I do not defend false teachings in other sects that profess the Jesus as He is presented in the Word. But even though I reject the false teachings, I do not condemn a whole sect necessarily. None of us have perfect doctrine. Paul tells us that in this life we see through a glass dimly, (or darkly) but in the life to come we will see clearly. In that time we will all have perfect doctrine without error even to the minutest degree.
1 Cor. 13:12 We should be careful and resist spiritual pride concerning our knowledge of right doctrine. We all have some incorrect thinking on spiritual matters.
As to your suggestion that I study more about the Catholic Church, you assume that I do not know as much as you do. I, however, have deeply and comprehensively studied the doctrines and history of the Catholic church as well as come other sects when I was seeking out prayerfully where the Lord would have me join in fellowship with. I rejected the Catholic Church as a possibility because of the teachings you and Hadassah mentioned as well as others not mentioned here.
I know that many ex-Catholics rejected the doctrines mentioned but many who have grown up Catholic have not read much on the history of the Church through the centuries or read the writings of leaders from the early times of the church. I have read much of these and find much food for thought in such writers as Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Augustine, and even Aquinas.
I also have read writings of the Reformers and other protestant leaders such as Calvin, Luther, and others and have found many inspiring thoughts from them, but have not agreed with all of them.
"Cor. 13:12 We should be careful and resist spiritual pride concerning our knowledge of right doctrine." I think it is time for us to stop communicating. I have not accused you of spiritual pride, lack of compassion for sinners, etc. I have been respectful of you and your comments, I have just disagreed with them. I don't agree that "serving God or serving manna" doesn't apply to what I'm saying about the Catholic Church. The Vatican is one of the wealthiest entities in the world. It is worth billions, and yet local parishes have had to close their schools because they don't have the funds to keep them open, elderly nun's pensions have been cut or stopped altogether because the parish didn't have the money anymore to pay it to them. The reason the Vatican won't help them is because they basically say they are on their own and the Vatican is not responsible for them. The Catholics choose idolatry over God in their worship of false God's, especially Mary. I would guess that 90% of Catholics worship Mary far above worshipping Jesus. The rosary has a bead where they pray the "Hail, Holy Queen" prayer which greatly and completely calls on Mary as if she is God. It's to long to print here but it is on the Marians of the Immaculate Conception website on " how to say the rosary." Many more Hail Marys are said on the rosary then any prayer to God. So Catholics may believe in God but they certainly don't worship Him as the one and only God. So they love manna and dishonor God. I admit, I haven't studied the Catholic Church like you have, but I did live it for 18 yrs. and the hypocrisy drove me away. What good does the little bit of truth do them when the great amount of lies take them over. I'm not saying you shouldn't witness to them or anyone else who believes in false doctrine but, I believe condoning the "false" while witnessing to the right is counter productive but, of course, that is your business. If you respond I will read it but I won't answer. God Bless You :)
Hello Momsage. If I may intrude a little here in spite of your converstion now going a different way, & in reference to GiGi's position on this matter of RC doctrine & teaching, I understand GiGi's comments a little differently to how you & Hadassah do. As you know, she is not condoning all the beliefs & practises of that Church, rather as I understand it, & from her other posts, that she is stating those RC beliefs that are actually according to the Bible & are to be noted.
However, your position is that 'if there are so many erroneous teachings emanating from a group such as the RC Church, then the whole is to be rejected & given no regard in any way'. But what I see here is that GiGi is airing those teachings that are clearly un-biblical & dishonoring to God, but even within such a misguided Church, there can still be teaching that are clearly biblically-based. For example, I know that some say that 'those who believe in the Trinity are believing a Catholic doctrine initiated by RC Church; and since they themselves don't believe it & the RCs do, therefore we follow a Catholic teaching'. Which is totally erroneous & misrepresenting both the Bible & those who subscribe to it.
Yet, there are teachings that RCs hold to that are biblical, e.g. the Trinity, of Judgement & Hell, of Christ's Virgin Birth, Death, Resurrection & Second Coming, the sanctity of marriage, Sunday (the Lord's Day), & others. And yet there are other teachings, many more that are against sound biblical doctrine. I doubt that neither GiGi, nor I & most others, would voluntarily attend & worship at an RC Church, given their beliefs & practises, but can we truly say that ALL that they believe in, is wrong? Could we not find some ground of common belief that we can use to measure how far folk have deviated from Truth; or, to assist those so grossly misled, to come to the Truth? To Page 2.
I do at times share with a few RC friends, & they also read the Bible themselves (a wonderful permission now granted to them), so they are asking questions, some even searching for the Truth (as in your cases). And some even now are saved within that Church, yet unable to leave probably because of the indoctrination of damnation in their early years, to any who considered leaving her. But I remain hopeful that the Spirit will continue to work in (& amongst) them, just as He has done in both of you.
An example: In the Qur'an there are a lot of verses that bring great honor to God, even mirroring the belief some hold to Jesus' position within the Godhead ( John 1:1); and this is found in Surah 3:45 (Qur'an), "When the angels said, 'Mary, God gives thee good tidings of a Word from Him, whose name is Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary; highly honoured shall he be in this world and the next". Here, the claim is made that Jesus is the Word of God, came from God as His Messiah, yet most Muslims reject this meaning as it's incompatible to God being One, without any association. Would I then use the Qur'an as a reliable source to complement the Bible in my readings (Never), or should I be aware that there are truths in there also, yet the 'whole' is so corrupted offering no hope & salvation to the Muslim?
So, even those truths can be the foundation to access the hearts & minds of others (Muslims, RCs, others), where in most cases, a total rejection to the biblical Truth will shut us off completely from them. Here of course, I'm thinking of ministry to such folk lost in darkness & sin, & also as a teaching between Truth & error, learning of what others believe & what has caused them to "err from the truth". So yes, we can at least appreciate when the RC does believe according to the Word: some Light is still evident there amongst the lies & so we have a good basis to build up on our common beliefs, striving to lead them to the perfect & final Work of Jesus for them.
It is fine if we end this thread of conversation between us. I was not saying that you were bring prideful about your knowledge. I was said that "we", meaning any believer, should be careful about it. Sorry if you thought I was pointing you out specifically. I was not.
Also, in all of this conversation I have maintained that we should not be hateful in our speech about others. I stand by that and have been respectful to you. But if you think I have not been so to you, please let me know how you think I have been disrespectful because I do truly want to know.
I'm sorry I overreacted. Yes, you have been respectful toward me and I appreciate it. I would still like to have discussions with you. Do you have something in particular we could discuss?
I use to belong to a church where one of their main teachings was devine healing but they became so stirck in the teaching that going to a doctor or taking medicine was looked down on. Basically you were being unfaithful to God and His word if you did. What do you think or if you'd rather discuss something else that's OK. God Bless :)
No problem, I understand that people who have been in a spiritual situation where they have been grossly misled or abused or made to feel guilty if one does not follow their teachings strictly and exclusively can have a very adverse reaction to that situation and can be reactive to things that can trigger strong emotions. It seems that this discussion has done so with you. I am sorry for that. I did not begin this discussion, just responding to you and Hadassah, as many do on this site.
As to the sect you were once associated with that taught against getting medical treatment, viewing it as a lack of faith or some other attitude they found thought God would not approve, I am glad you left that situation. Such teachings and pressures to conform are oftentimes a mark of cultish and teaching. So, My prayer is that you are now in a good church situation that feeds you well from Scripture and promotes a deeper walk with God by His Spirit in you. We can discuss what ever you wish. I usually do not begin threads or discussions but often join in. I am happy to know you and look forward to many discussions. I don't think we need to redress the current one on the errors of Catholicism. I do think we agree that there are some very disturbingly false teachings and practices promoted by this sect. And that is a good place to end on this topic.
The following verse " Psalms 1:1-6 speaks volumes!
There's a lot of doctrine built around this.
Vs 3 "And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, THAT BRINGETH FORTH HIS FRUIT IN HIS SEASON; HIS LEAF ALSO SHALL NOT WITHER; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.
(HIS LEAF SHALL NOT WITHER!
Forever being fruitful!)
Jeremiah 17:7-8 is another one that picks up on this.
"Blessed is the man that trusteth in the LORD, and whose hope the LORD is.
For he shall be as a tree planted by the waters, and that spreadeth out her roots by the river, and shall not see when heat cometh, but her leaf shall be green; and shall not be careful in the year of drought, NEITHER SHALL CEASE FROM YIELDING FRUIT.
Jesus uses this idiom in John 7:37-39 "In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water
(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
Also see John 4:10.
THANK GOD FOR HIS HOLYSPIRIT THAT SEALS AND GUIDES US!
Psalms 1:1-6.
THE UNGODLY ARE NOT SO: but are like the CHAFF which the wind driveth away.
THEREFORE THE UNGODLY SHALL NOT STAND IN THE JUDGMENT,
(They will have their own Judgment)
NOR SINNERS IN THE CONGREGATION OF THE RIGHTEOUS.
For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.
(THE CHAFF IS NOT BINDING TO THE TREE AND HAS NO ROOTS AND NO FRUIT.)
More on the chaff. Matthew 3:11-12
Praise the Lord!
This is why Psalms 1:1 says "Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
Amen, a little here, a little there, people become numb and blind to what is happening not able to discern what is evil, Isaiah 5:20. The leaven in the dough is almost ready to bake.
God bless and hold on to Him, tough roads make for tough feet that can carry you to the end of the road.
May God bless you too Ronald , this world is full of distractions and discouragements , the Pure Word of God is a lamp to our feet but , if that lamp is dimmed through false doctrine then our feet can slip ! May God's love and mercy and Word ,keep you on the straight and narrow . Stay strong ,Christ is coming ! :) .
Gigi, I would suggest a deep dive into the teachings of the the Catholic faith.
Did you know that Catholics are taught the Eucharist is REALLY the body of Christ?Where I last lived, in Europe, the church would have viewings for people to adore the Eucharist. The priest would make it a SACRIFICE during every mass! It is not about commemorating the last supper. But, anyway we know that Jesus made the sacrifice once and for all. And, besides the Eucharist issue being wrong, only the Levitical line of Aaron is allowed to be priests.
The Catholics teach praying to Mary as a co-redemptrix. The Catholics say Mary also ascended. This is the tip of the iceberg.
I fear you do not know that of which you speak. The Catholic system is very antichrist. It is fraught with a myriad of blasphemy against our LORD. And at the highest levels, treachery abounds.
I refer you to the reply I gave to Momsage concerning my knowledge of the teachings and practices of the Catholic Church.
I do know of the doctrines you listed and others that you have not that I think to be erroneous.
So, Hadassah, I am not as ignorant as you seem to imply. I am very well informed about the Catholic Church and other sects as I have spent much time studying this topic over the past 50 years.
Just an aside, when I was very young (9 or so) I began to read the Bible for myself. No one else encouraged me to do so at that age, though I was brought up in a traditional church that read scripture every Sunday service. Soon after that, when I was in 5th grade I determined that I only wanted to read what was true, so I stopped reading fiction books and instead read the Bible, because I knew it was true and I began to read biographies and science books, I read the dictionary, encyclopedias, history books. I was very hungry to know the truth about God, my world, and many other subjects. I was a devourer of such literature. This hunger has continued all my life.
But this knowledge does not set me apart from any other believer. We are all on the same journey towards God to come to know Him in Spirit and in truth. As I said to Momsage, in this life we know dimly or darkly) as Paul put it, but in the life to come we will know fully. We all have need of having our doctrine corrected and deepened.
Momsage great post! I don't get on here very much anymore but it seems that you fit right in on this site.
The KJB truly is the pure Words of the Lord, the (Spirit of truth) is the KJB! All those who trust modern version bibles are putting their trust in doctrines of devils ( 1 Tim 4:1) and deceiving themselves and others ( 2 Tim 4:3-4)
The Comforter IS the Holy Ghost ( Jn 14:26) This verse tells us that the "Comforter" WHICH IS the "Holy Ghost" will teach us all things "he shall teach you all things".
Now in ( Jn 16:13-15) This verse tells us "when the "Spirit of truth" is come, he will (guide) you into all truth"
The word (guide) is #3594; and it means to show the way.
The Spirit of truth will show the way to all truth, the KJB is that Spirit of truth! The Comforter, which IS the Holy Ghost, will teach us all things from the Spirit of truth.
The Comforter, which IS the Holy Ghost is joined with the Spirit of truth. ( Jn 14:16-17) v16 tells us "and he shall give you another "Comforter" that he may abide with you for ever". v17 tells us "(Even) the "Spirit of truth" whom the world cannot receive because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you and shall be in you". The word (Even) is #2531; it means just (or inasmuch) as, according to, with which it is joined.
WITH WHICH IT IS JOINED? WOW!
The Comforter, which IS the Holy Ghost IS joined with the Spirit of truth.
The Holy Ghost, which is the Comforter IS joined with the Spirit of truth, which IS the King James Bible!
The KJB is the pure Words of the LORD ( Proverbs 30:5-6) and ( Ps 12:6-7)
All modern version bibles are words of men who (changed) the words of the living God to deceive, ( Jer 23:36) The word (perverted) is #2015; it means to turn about or over, to change. modern version bibles DONOT have the Holy Ghost joined with them! Those who are using modern versions cannot find this truth!
Hi Jimbob: It's good to hear from you and I am enjoying discussing the things of God on this site. I understand now that you don't get on here very often so I'll just look forward to hearing from you when you do. I enjoy reading your comments on the beautiful, true Word of God; the KJB. I think, just my thought, is that somehow before we leave here that God is going to somehow diminish the faith in these false translations. I hope you had a nice Thanksgiving and have a happy celebration of the birth of Christ. :) God Bless You
BELIEVE in Jesus Christ as the true God incarnate. That His death and resurrection provided the sacrificial blood for forgiveness of mankind's sin so that the soul may be in His Prescence for eternity.
ASK Jesus, with a sincere heart, for forgiveness of your sins and accept Him into your heart as your personal Savior.
Then you will have the leading of the Holy Spirit to want to live a sin free, holy life.
The Holy Spirit will lead you into a heartfelt desire to read and study His word; the 1611 King James Bible. It tells us who God is and that He, and He, alone is the Creator of everything.
God is to be loved and Obeyed.
Always, your heart should be turned toward GOD and the things of God.
Don't let yourself be fooled by ANY of the modern, corrupt translations. of the "bible." Stick to the 1611 KJB.
The Word of God tells us who God is and that He, and He, alone is the Creator of everything.
Read the bible diligently and consistently through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit after salvation until you go home to Him.
God is to be loved and Obeyed.
The bible is a wonderful book with stories, lessons and much Knowledge for God's people. Whether we sleep until He brings us into His Prescence, or we go straight to His Prescence when our soul leaves our body, we are His forever if we choose to live holy and be obedient to Him.
This is a straight, and narrow path and not many will and follow it because God gave man a free will to choose Him and His way or to choose the devil, through self will, and his way.
It really is that simple to live and understand as long as we put ourselves under the blood of Jesus Christ our Lord.
Scriptures to read:
Book of Luke
Genesis 1: 1-11
I refer you to the reply I gave to Momsage concerning my knowledge of the teachings and practices of the Catholic Church.
I do know of the doctrines you listed and others that you have not that I think to be erroneous.
So, Hadassah, I am not as ignorant as you seem to imply. I am very well informed about the Catholic Church and other sects as I have spent much time studying this topic over the past 50 years.
Just an aside, when I was very young (9 or so) I began to read the Bible for myself. No one else encouraged me to do so at that age, though I was brought up in a traditional church that read scripture every Sunday service. Soon after that, when I was in 5th grade I determined that I only wanted to read what was true, so I stopped reading fiction books and instead read the Bible, because I knew it was true and I began to read biographies and science books, I read the dictionary, encyclopedias, history books. I was very hungry to know the truth about God, my world, and many other subjects. I was a devourer of such literature. This hunger has continued all my life.
But this knowledge does not set me apart from any other believer. We are all on the same journey towards God to come to know Him in Spirit and in truth. As I said to Momsage, in this life we know dimly or darkly) as Paul put it, but in the life to come we will know fully. We all have need of having our doctrine corrected and deepened.
"Jesus Christ" is that name (verse 10).
We know that we are of GOD, and the whole world lieth in wickedness. And we know that the Son of GOD is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know Him that is True, and we are in Him that is True, even in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life - 1John 5:19-20
John 1:11-13
11 JESUS came unto His own, and His own received Him not.
12 But as many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the sons of GOD, even to them that believe on His NAME:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of GOD.
Amen
The problem entered when the Vatican started messing around with the Bible, omitting things, altering things, adding things in order to support their doctrine. The Vatican system is the beast. All the early Protestant fathers knew that fact and wrote about it.
A case in point, that I've shared here before: when ministering in Pakistan back in the late 80's, I was giving a Bible study to a small Church group & 1 John 4:10, "Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins" was one of many references that was given. I had to use a Urdu translator (a brother in Christ) for this study, since my Urdu proficiency is woefully inadequate, & I had checked with him on some of our more 'difficult' biblical English words, e.g. 'propitiation'. He told me that in Urdu it is 'kafara' which in English is 'atonement'. But when I asked if 'kafara' could mean anything else to him (as we understand it in English), he replied, 'no other meaning at all'; they had no word in Urdu for 'propitiation', which meant that the translators made no effort to maybe give the proper meaning as a footnote, for example.
So Christians in Pakistan & parts of N. India actually miss out on receiving the full Truth & value of verses such as 1 John 4:10, thinking that the Gift of God's Son had atonement as its only message - they had no idea, because of a bad translation, that Jesus not only died for mankind's sins, but that He also bore the Wrath of God upon Himself that was actually destined for us. That by believing on Jesus, both our sins have been forgiven & God's Anger has been averted. Now not only lacking in Urdu, but I wonder how many other foreign language translations are denying Christians the full & accurate Words of God given for them.
Do you know that the translators of the KJV used a Bible composed by Erasmus, a Catholic priest in the times of the reformation in their translation?
So your are saying that the KJV translators used a corrupt version in their work.
It is fine to discuss the topic of the validity of translations based on facts, but not on an obvious vehement bias towards the Catholic church as you have shown in your post. I am not defending the Catholic Church here. Just saying that your argument would be better received if you left out the hate and based your viewpoint on factual information.
"Do you know that the translators of the KJV used a Bible composed by Erasmus, a Catholic priest in the times of the reformation in their translation?"
Answer: Yes. I know.
"So your are saying that the KJV translators used a corrupt version in their work."
Answer: No. Where in my posts have I said that the KJV translators used a corrupt version?
"It is fine to discuss the topic of the validity of translations based on facts, but not on an obvious vehement bias towards the Catholic church as you have shown in your post. I am not defending the Catholic Church here. Just saying that your argument would be better received if you left out the hate and based your viewpoint on factual information. "
Answer: The topic of Bible translations and how they came about is an hours and hours long study comprising volumes of reading material. This site is for quick comments not lengthy dissertations. You are accusing me of hate but that is quite unfair. There is nothing in my posts indicating hate of the Catholic people. However, the Catholic/vatican/Papacy is antichrist. The system is the Beast. It was identified as so by the Protestant church fathers. And, that Gigi, is a fact.
"O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12
I never said that you were showing hate to people who practice Catholicism, but towards the Catholic Church.
It is a fact that many of the leaders of the reformation thought that the papacy was the Antichrist, but it is actually a fact that the Catholic church, Vatican, and papacy are the antichrist is not yet proven as fact.
I think it is more helpful to point out the errors taught by the Catholic Church or any other sect than to speak as though the entire body of teachings of the Catholic Church or other sects are erroneous and evil.
Being precise in this manner shows facts instead of emotion filled vitriol.
By David H. Sorenson
Erasmus thus became an enigma. He slowly but surely shifted away from Catholic theology, but stopped short of joining with Luther. He attacked the Roman Catholic Church, but never officially left it. Part of this confusion is to be found in the personal temperament of Erasmus. Whereas Luther had the temperament to stand and thunder, "Here I stand, I can do no other," Erasmus was more timorous. He was not an open fighter. His battling was through his pen. Whereas Luther eventually was excommunicated from the Catholic Church, Erasmus tried to reform it from within. [5] Whereas Luther became a "come-outer," Erasmus remained a "stay-inner." He would have been better served to follow Luther's example. However, he did not. He thus became a target from both sides. The establishment of the Catholic Church detested him. Most of the Reformers were suspicious of him as well.
Erasmus is a fascinating character in the lineage of the Received Text of the New Testament. His Greek New Testament, without doubt, was the catalyst which sparked the Reformation. He was a Catholic at the beginning of the Reformation. However, as he continued to search the Scriptures, he increasingly became less and less Catholic in his position. By the time he died in 1536, he had virtually become an Anabaptist in his theology. To his demerit, he never officially left the Catholic Church. However, when he died, it was not in the arms of Rome. Rather, in 1534, he returned to Basel, Switzerland, and two years later died in the midst of his Protestant friends, "without relations of any sort, so far as known with the Roman Catholic Church." [9]
Basically, I loath the DOCTRINE of Catholicism, it is an evil, false doctrine that has sent many, many poor souls to hell. I loath any false doctrine that deceives souls to damnation. Don't imagine that because I find the doctrines loathsome that it means I hate the people who believe in those doctrines because I love the souls who are being deceived. I grieve that they may not have eternal life with Jesus because they are not understanding the truth of His teachings and His salvation because their minds and hearts are so firmly held captive by those extremely deceitful teachings. :) Be Blessed, Ann
I so understand your intent concerning hating false doctrine. The Catholic Church has many correct doctrines that we should support, but also many false doctrines that we should denounce. We should not hold a blanket denunciation of the whole body of teaching of the Catholic Chruch, in my view. They have a very correct view of God as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, about the life and sacrificial death of Jesus and his resurrection.
I think it is important to point out where they did change the Scripture i.e. verses, phrases, words. (if they truly did
There are many false teachings in Protestant churches today. So, we should hate these as much as the ones taught in Catholicism. Whereas we do not blanketlike denounce these sects, we should not blanket like denounce the Catholic Church either.
Sects that teach that Jesus is Michael the archangel, that he is not the eternal Sonn of God, that he became divine at His baptism or crucifixion, that He is only filled with the Holy Spirit as we are but to the fullest and only human, that teach that the Holy Spirit is only a power or force, but not a person that can be interacted with, grieved, lied to, etc., that humans will become gods, that Jesus needed to be born again, that all persons will be saved eventually. These are all false teachings in my view. Some of these we find in sects like Mormonism, Jehovah Witnesses, but also in sects that many find to be within the Christian faith. There are those sects that teach that you must belong to their sect to be saved, such as Church of Christ, Plymouth Brethren, Catholic Church. And there are those who teach that you must be baptized in the Holy Spirit with evidence of speaking in tongues to be saves, such some Pentecostal churches.
So Momsage, there are many false teachings in numerous sects besides the Catholic Church. The language that you and Hadassah use towards the Catholic Church is hateful and generalized rather than specific. Compassion is needed.
What the Word of GOD says after weighing the content of your message, it is written in Isaiah 33:10-15:
10 Now will I rise, saith the Lord; now will I be exalted; now will I lift up myself.
11 Ye shall conceive chaff, ye shall bring forth stubble: your breath, as fire, shall devour you.
12 And the PEOPLE shall be as the burnings of lime: as thorns cut up shall they be burned in the fire.
13 Hear, ye that are far off (the GENTILE peoples), what I have done; and, ye that are near(the JEWISH people), acknowledge my might.
14 The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who AMONG US shall dwell with the devouring fire?(GOD is a devouring fire, understand?) who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?
15 He that walketh righteously, and speaketh uprightly; he that despiseth the gain of oppressions, that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes, that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood, and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil;
2 Peter 3:7&11-12&17-The heavens(the 1st and 2nd heavenly places in Christ- Ephesians 1:3-or 1st and 2nd Covenant-Old and New Testaments)and the earth(the current Israel infested of idolatries and sorceries,whose holy city is spiritually called Sodom and Egypt),which are now,by the same Word are kept in store,RESERVED UNTO FIRE against this Day of Judgment and perdition of ungodly men.(that is the seventh and last Day or seventh and last millennium)
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be DISSOLVED,what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the Day of GOD,wherein the heavens being on fire(GOD is a devouring fire) shall be DISSOLVED,and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
To JESUS Christ, our Saviour, to Him be Glory both now and for ever. Amen.
Thank you for this Scripture filled post.
I am confused as to how it is fitting as an address to what I posted to Momsage. Can you please explain? I want to understand why you posted this to me.
You said to Momsage that there are many false teachings in Protestant churches today, so, we should hate these as much as the ones taught in Catholicism, and after you made an extense description of sects which have spread false and devilish doctrines.
Reading the content of your post, I was compelled to remember you and all that from now on GOD Almight will LITERALLY fulfill
His Word given to Isaiah about His WRATH against this current generation of satanic religions, and their respective devilish doctrines and teachings. As my GOD said- Isaiah 33:10-14-, Now will He rise, now will He be exalted; now will He lift up Himself.
My GOD is a devouring fire, understand? So the people shall be as the burnings of lime: as thorns cut up shall they be burned in the fire.
Now if any man build upon this foundation gold,silver,precious stones,wood,hay,stubble;Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it,because it shall be revealed by fire;and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is-1Cor.3:12-13.
2 Peter 3:7
&11-12&17-The heavens(the 1st and 2nd heavenly places in Christ- Ephesians 1:3-or 1st and 2nd Covenant-Old and New Testaments)and the earth(the current Israel infested of idolatries and sorceries,whose holy city is spiritually called Sodom and Egypt),which are now,by the same Word are kept in store,RESERVED UNTO FIRE against this Day of Judgment and perdition of ungodly men.(that is the seventh and last Day or seventh and last millennium)
11Seeing then that all these things shall be DISSOLVED,what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the Day of GOD,wherein the heavens being on fire(GOD is a devouring fire) shall be DISSOLVED,and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
17Ye therefore,beloved,seeing ye know these things before,beware lest ye also,being led away with the error of the wicked,fall from your own your own stedfastness.
What I said is that we are to hate any false doctrine no matter the sect. But that does not mean that we are to speak hatefully to those who are in these sects or to oppose ALL that is taught by such sects as long as the teaching is Scripturally sound. We can choose to not be members of such sects or to associate with those in these sects, nor should we recommend people to join them, but we are not to be hateful to them. We are to be winsome in our language to those in sects that teach things that are not in accord with Scripture, endeavoring to find common sound beliefs to speak with them about in hopes of drawing them to the Scriptures to seek more truth.
As for the rest of your post to me, I guess that I really do not have much more to address of it. I hope you have a good day, Oseas.
Again, Just because I have read much from Christian leaders across time does not mean I think they are correct in everything they write. But it makes me think deeply and check out their ideas against Scripture and with the Holy Spirit's help discern what is correct and what is false. But I, too, do not have perfect doctrine in all matters and am constantly learning and correcting my beliefs, which I think all of us should do.
I understand your concern. When Jesus said, H"You cannot serve two masters he was speaking of God and Mammon" (money, riches), so I do not think it is an apt verse to this conversation. Even so, it is true that we should not have divided loyalties.
As to the false teachings of the Catholic church, I do not defend them in any way even as I do not defend false teachings in other sects that profess the Jesus as He is presented in the Word. But even though I reject the false teachings, I do not condemn a whole sect necessarily. None of us have perfect doctrine. Paul tells us that in this life we see through a glass dimly, (or darkly) but in the life to come we will see clearly. In that time we will all have perfect doctrine without error even to the minutest degree.
1 Cor. 13:12 We should be careful and resist spiritual pride concerning our knowledge of right doctrine. We all have some incorrect thinking on spiritual matters.
As to your suggestion that I study more about the Catholic Church, you assume that I do not know as much as you do. I, however, have deeply and comprehensively studied the doctrines and history of the Catholic church as well as come other sects when I was seeking out prayerfully where the Lord would have me join in fellowship with. I rejected the Catholic Church as a possibility because of the teachings you and Hadassah mentioned as well as others not mentioned here.
I know that many ex-Catholics rejected the doctrines mentioned but many who have grown up Catholic have not read much on the history of the Church through the centuries or read the writings of leaders from the early times of the church. I have read much of these and find much food for thought in such writers as Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Augustine, and even Aquinas.
I also have read writings of the Reformers and other protestant leaders such as Calvin, Luther, and others and have found many inspiring thoughts from them, but have not agreed with all of them.
Hello Momsage. If I may intrude a little here in spite of your converstion now going a different way, & in reference to GiGi's position on this matter of RC doctrine & teaching, I understand GiGi's comments a little differently to how you & Hadassah do. As you know, she is not condoning all the beliefs & practises of that Church, rather as I understand it, & from her other posts, that she is stating those RC beliefs that are actually according to the Bible & are to be noted.
However, your position is that 'if there are so many erroneous teachings emanating from a group such as the RC Church, then the whole is to be rejected & given no regard in any way'. But what I see here is that GiGi is airing those teachings that are clearly un-biblical & dishonoring to God, but even within such a misguided Church, there can still be teaching that are clearly biblically-based. For example, I know that some say that 'those who believe in the Trinity are believing a Catholic doctrine initiated by RC Church; and since they themselves don't believe it & the RCs do, therefore we follow a Catholic teaching'. Which is totally erroneous & misrepresenting both the Bible & those who subscribe to it.
Yet, there are teachings that RCs hold to that are biblical, e.g. the Trinity, of Judgement & Hell, of Christ's Virgin Birth, Death, Resurrection & Second Coming, the sanctity of marriage, Sunday (the Lord's Day), & others. And yet there are other teachings, many more that are against sound biblical doctrine. I doubt that neither GiGi, nor I & most others, would voluntarily attend & worship at an RC Church, given their beliefs & practises, but can we truly say that ALL that they believe in, is wrong? Could we not find some ground of common belief that we can use to measure how far folk have deviated from Truth; or, to assist those so grossly misled, to come to the Truth? To Page 2.
I do at times share with a few RC friends, & they also read the Bible themselves (a wonderful permission now granted to them), so they are asking questions, some even searching for the Truth (as in your cases). And some even now are saved within that Church, yet unable to leave probably because of the indoctrination of damnation in their early years, to any who considered leaving her. But I remain hopeful that the Spirit will continue to work in (& amongst) them, just as He has done in both of you.
An example: In the Qur'an there are a lot of verses that bring great honor to God, even mirroring the belief some hold to Jesus' position within the Godhead ( John 1:1); and this is found in Surah 3:45 (Qur'an), "When the angels said, 'Mary, God gives thee good tidings of a Word from Him, whose name is Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary; highly honoured shall he be in this world and the next". Here, the claim is made that Jesus is the Word of God, came from God as His Messiah, yet most Muslims reject this meaning as it's incompatible to God being One, without any association. Would I then use the Qur'an as a reliable source to complement the Bible in my readings (Never), or should I be aware that there are truths in there also, yet the 'whole' is so corrupted offering no hope & salvation to the Muslim?
So, even those truths can be the foundation to access the hearts & minds of others (Muslims, RCs, others), where in most cases, a total rejection to the biblical Truth will shut us off completely from them. Here of course, I'm thinking of ministry to such folk lost in darkness & sin, & also as a teaching between Truth & error, learning of what others believe & what has caused them to "err from the truth". So yes, we can at least appreciate when the RC does believe according to the Word: some Light is still evident there amongst the lies & so we have a good basis to build up on our common beliefs, striving to lead them to the perfect & final Work of Jesus for them.
We must not shun the truth no matter who delivers it
We should try to use that common ground to minister to them.
God bless.
you expressed our shared thoughts on this very eloquently.
It is fine if we end this thread of conversation between us. I was not saying that you were bring prideful about your knowledge. I was said that "we", meaning any believer, should be careful about it. Sorry if you thought I was pointing you out specifically. I was not.
Also, in all of this conversation I have maintained that we should not be hateful in our speech about others. I stand by that and have been respectful to you. But if you think I have not been so to you, please let me know how you think I have been disrespectful because I do truly want to know.
I hope you have a blessed day and evening.
I use to belong to a church where one of their main teachings was devine healing but they became so stirck in the teaching that going to a doctor or taking medicine was looked down on. Basically you were being unfaithful to God and His word if you did. What do you think or if you'd rather discuss something else that's OK. God Bless :)
No problem, I understand that people who have been in a spiritual situation where they have been grossly misled or abused or made to feel guilty if one does not follow their teachings strictly and exclusively can have a very adverse reaction to that situation and can be reactive to things that can trigger strong emotions. It seems that this discussion has done so with you. I am sorry for that. I did not begin this discussion, just responding to you and Hadassah, as many do on this site.
As to the sect you were once associated with that taught against getting medical treatment, viewing it as a lack of faith or some other attitude they found thought God would not approve, I am glad you left that situation. Such teachings and pressures to conform are oftentimes a mark of cultish and teaching. So, My prayer is that you are now in a good church situation that feeds you well from Scripture and promotes a deeper walk with God by His Spirit in you. We can discuss what ever you wish. I usually do not begin threads or discussions but often join in. I am happy to know you and look forward to many discussions. I don't think we need to redress the current one on the errors of Catholicism. I do think we agree that there are some very disturbingly false teachings and practices promoted by this sect. And that is a good place to end on this topic.
1. Blessed is the man that walketh not in the council of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
2. But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.
What a wonder example for us. God Bless :)
The following verse " Psalms 1:1-6 speaks volumes!
There's a lot of doctrine built around this.
Vs 3 "And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, THAT BRINGETH FORTH HIS FRUIT IN HIS SEASON; HIS LEAF ALSO SHALL NOT WITHER; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.
(HIS LEAF SHALL NOT WITHER!
Forever being fruitful!)
Jeremiah 17:7-8 is another one that picks up on this.
"Blessed is the man that trusteth in the LORD, and whose hope the LORD is.
For he shall be as a tree planted by the waters, and that spreadeth out her roots by the river, and shall not see when heat cometh, but her leaf shall be green; and shall not be careful in the year of drought, NEITHER SHALL CEASE FROM YIELDING FRUIT.
Jesus uses this idiom in John 7:37-39 "In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water
(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
Also see John 4:10.
THANK GOD FOR HIS HOLYSPIRIT THAT SEALS AND GUIDES US!
Psalms 1:1-6.
THE UNGODLY ARE NOT SO: but are like the CHAFF which the wind driveth away.
THEREFORE THE UNGODLY SHALL NOT STAND IN THE JUDGMENT,
(They will have their own Judgment)
NOR SINNERS IN THE CONGREGATION OF THE RIGHTEOUS.
For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.
(THE CHAFF IS NOT BINDING TO THE TREE AND HAS NO ROOTS AND NO FRUIT.)
More on the chaff. Matthew 3:11-12
Praise the Lord!
This is why Psalms 1:1 says "Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
God bless.
Amen, a little here, a little there, people become numb and blind to what is happening not able to discern what is evil, Isaiah 5:20. The leaven in the dough is almost ready to bake.
God bless and hold on to Him, tough roads make for tough feet that can carry you to the end of the road.
RLW
Did you know that Catholics are taught the Eucharist is REALLY the body of Christ?Where I last lived, in Europe, the church would have viewings for people to adore the Eucharist. The priest would make it a SACRIFICE during every mass! It is not about commemorating the last supper. But, anyway we know that Jesus made the sacrifice once and for all. And, besides the Eucharist issue being wrong, only the Levitical line of Aaron is allowed to be priests.
The Catholics teach praying to Mary as a co-redemptrix. The Catholics say Mary also ascended. This is the tip of the iceberg.
I fear you do not know that of which you speak. The Catholic system is very antichrist. It is fraught with a myriad of blasphemy against our LORD. And at the highest levels, treachery abounds.
I refer you to the reply I gave to Momsage concerning my knowledge of the teachings and practices of the Catholic Church.
I do know of the doctrines you listed and others that you have not that I think to be erroneous.
So, Hadassah, I am not as ignorant as you seem to imply. I am very well informed about the Catholic Church and other sects as I have spent much time studying this topic over the past 50 years.
Just an aside, when I was very young (9 or so) I began to read the Bible for myself. No one else encouraged me to do so at that age, though I was brought up in a traditional church that read scripture every Sunday service. Soon after that, when I was in 5th grade I determined that I only wanted to read what was true, so I stopped reading fiction books and instead read the Bible, because I knew it was true and I began to read biographies and science books, I read the dictionary, encyclopedias, history books. I was very hungry to know the truth about God, my world, and many other subjects. I was a devourer of such literature. This hunger has continued all my life.
But this knowledge does not set me apart from any other believer. We are all on the same journey towards God to come to know Him in Spirit and in truth. As I said to Momsage, in this life we know dimly or darkly) as Paul put it, but in the life to come we will know fully. We all have need of having our doctrine corrected and deepened.
The KJB truly is the pure Words of the Lord, the (Spirit of truth) is the KJB! All those who trust modern version bibles are putting their trust in doctrines of devils ( 1 Tim 4:1) and deceiving themselves and others ( 2 Tim 4:3-4)
The Comforter IS the Holy Ghost ( Jn 14:26) This verse tells us that the "Comforter" WHICH IS the "Holy Ghost" will teach us all things "he shall teach you all things".
Now in ( Jn 16:13-15) This verse tells us "when the "Spirit of truth" is come, he will (guide) you into all truth"
The word (guide) is #3594; and it means to show the way.
The Spirit of truth will show the way to all truth, the KJB is that Spirit of truth! The Comforter, which IS the Holy Ghost, will teach us all things from the Spirit of truth.
The Comforter, which IS the Holy Ghost is joined with the Spirit of truth. ( Jn 14:16-17) v16 tells us "and he shall give you another "Comforter" that he may abide with you for ever". v17 tells us "(Even) the "Spirit of truth" whom the world cannot receive because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you and shall be in you". The word (Even) is #2531; it means just (or inasmuch) as, according to, with which it is joined.
WITH WHICH IT IS JOINED? WOW!
The Comforter, which IS the Holy Ghost IS joined with the Spirit of truth.
The Holy Ghost, which is the Comforter IS joined with the Spirit of truth, which IS the King James Bible!
The KJB is the pure Words of the LORD ( Proverbs 30:5-6) and ( Ps 12:6-7)
All modern version bibles are words of men who (changed) the words of the living God to deceive, ( Jer 23:36) The word (perverted) is #2015; it means to turn about or over, to change. modern version bibles DONOT have the Holy Ghost joined with them! Those who are using modern versions cannot find this truth!
The Word of God is Alive, it truly is Amazing!!
Blessings to you Momsage.