Bible Discussion Thread

I often hear anti-works messages quoting Ephesians 2:8-9, but they leave out the very next verse 10 which says:

"For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them." Ephesians 2:10 KJV

We were created to do good works, but some like to shame others and claim that doing good works is bad because they assume it somehow takes away from grace, or assume effort is bad, assume there's instructions against it. Then oddly, they don't shame bad works though. They just say being bad is fine because its covered by grace, even if done intentionally, even if to harm others to the maximum degree, with no limits apparently, even blaspheming the holy spirit?, contrary to the scriptures. Someone has to ignore so many scriptures in the Bible to arrive at this conclusion and to massively cherry pick, like plucking out Eph 2, 8-9, but ignoring 10, ignoring James 2:17.

"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven." Matthew 5:16 KJV

Jesus said this. But this is like kryptonite to the anti-works group. They'd rather it say let your darkness shine that they may see your bad works, then they'd be ok with it?

Obviously satan is behind the distorting of the truth. He always twists everything to deceive people to believe the opposite is true. Imagine being a Christian and truly believing that its bad to follow Christ. Yet, I've seen comments even on this forum where people sometimes say this. We must be on our guard so we can discern truth from lies. 1 Peter 5:8

I feel led to post this info to counter anyone who may be indoctrinated by the false teachings. The best remedy is to read the Bible, not cherry pick. I don't know how anyone can read the entire Bible and come to the conclusion that pleasing God is bad, and disobeying Him is good. No one should expect to be saved if they are not even following Christ- not a Christian.

Adam,

I agree. Anyone on this forum who says or believes that it is bad to follow Christ, or that pleasing God is bad, and disobeying Him is good, they are not true believers, and we are not to have fellowship with anyone who says these things.

One good way to determine if good works are truly being performed is if there is persecution and opposition. There are some; as you point out in Matthew 5:16 who will praise God seeing our good works (expect that is believers and perhaps unbelievers who are seeking the truth with an objective mind and open heart). This begs the question what good works actually are; especially in light of warnings about those who appear to be doing miracles in His Name even though in the end they are cast out and He never knew them. Knowing them in that sense would be an intimate knowledge; and of course involve the indwelling of the Spirit when He makes His home with them (see John 14:23).

To answer your point first; clearly bad works are evidence of bad fruit and hence an unregenerate heart. That comes from a lifestyle of sin that hasn't been changed; not from occasional sins that are still wrong but not something the Spirit will tolerate if we are one of His. Of course if we boast about all the great things we do for Christ it isn't edifying. The closest thing we can see in scripture is Paul where He had to give a laundry list of all the things to the Corinthians that he was suffering so as to keep them from being puffed up and to be able to take in the meat of the Word and stop living in carnality. His responsibility over the flock meant that they couldn't discredit God's character by exhibiting immature behavior so to disciple them this and sarcasm was needed.

Again the definition of works certainly involves our outer actions as James states must be present in helping a brother or sister in need not just words. It also would involve good fruit of character and things such as loving other Christians; having a listening ear and a general attitude of service. For instance; we can feed the hungry but also provide opportunities for them to hear the Gospel. Such actions need not be mutually exclusive.