Good question. We are face to a deep and terrible puzzle/enigma. The most important is the Truth. GOD is Truth. The Word is GOD. The Word is from everlasting to everlasting. The GOD's people needs to investigate and seek Truth.
Replying to your question, I must say that NAME does not exist in the original Hebrew Scripture, it was simply added.
Remember, JESUS said: Re.22:18 -> I testify unto every man that hears the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, GOD shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book.
What matters and prevails is the pure Word of GOD. Isaiah 12:3KJV says: Therefore with joy shall ye draw water out of the wells of salvation. (Jo.7:38-> He that believes on me, as the Scripture has said,out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. Compare with John 5:37-47)
4 And in that Day (in this current Day, the seventh and last Day) shall ye say, Praise the Lord, call upon his name, declare his doings among the people, make mention that his name is exalted.(This will LITERALLY be fulfilled: Revelation 7:1-8. 144K)
5 Sing unto the Lord; for he hath done excellent things: this is known in all the earth. -> ( Revelation 11:15-18, among other biblical references.Take a look)
6 Cry out and shout, you inhabitant of Zion: for great is the Holy One of Israel in the midst of thee. -> (Re.1:7-8-> 8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, sais the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. ->7 Behold,He comes with clouds;and every eye shall see Him, and they also which pierced Him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
"I must say that NAME does not exist in the original Hebrew Scripture, it was simply added."
That's quite a claim. Do you realize you're basically accusing not just the KJV but the Bible in general for being wrong, is that what you're saying? Are these 4 verses with Jehovah the only scriptures you feel this way about or other parts of the Bible too? If you think there's holes, how do you believe and trust the rest of it and where do you draw the line?
What is your evidence that a name "does not exist in the original Hebrew" and was "simply added"?
Do you believe the Strong's identifier for this word?
What part of it do you think is wrong and what do you think it should be and what is the evidence for your opinion being right and dozens of expert translators being wrong?
As you know, the Bible is about two Covenants- The OT and NT.
What we are commenting is about the OT, not about the NT, for there is not that NAME or nickname in the NT. Remember: You quoted Isaiah 12:1-2.
Isaiah 16:-1-2 in the OT -Nevin'im(Prophets) Yeshayahu(Isaiah) is written as follow:
1 And you shall say on that day, I will thank You, O Lord, for You were wroth with me, may Your wrath turn away and may You comfort me.
2 Here is the God of my salvation, I shall trust and not fear; for the strength and praise of the Eternal the Lord was my salvation.
In fact that name was added in the translations inadvertently, but the name you have mentioned it is not the only fictitious name or nickname added in the OT (not added in the Bible as a whole-OT&NT), there are several others: I have listed YHWH, Yahweh, Yehovah,Elohim, Adonai, HaShem, Yahusha, YEHshia, Jehovah, YEHvah, these names are not NAMES of GOD, quite the opposite, all these names listed are strictly the names of the father of the Jews- John 8:44 combined with Revelation 12:3-4.
JESUS in His prayer to the Father, said: John 17:6 - I have manifested thy NAME unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: ... -->What's NAME?)
I repeated the original evidence because there is not greater EVIDENCE than the everlasting Word of GOD, is there? The Word is GOD, the invisible, the Omnipotent, and Omniscient and Omnipresent GOD, for me it is He Who is "the Strong's identifier". The Word is self-executing / executable because the Word is GOD, understand? Psalm 33:9 - He -the Word- spake, and it was done; He commanded, and it stood fast.
Yes,I stated that the added name Jehovah(a demonic name of Satan)is not in the original Scriptures as being GOD,Father of my Lord JESUS, but as Lucifer,the son of perdition,father of the Jews as said my Lord JESUS- John 8:44-,transfigured as God- Isaiah 14 combined with 2Thes.2:2-3 among other biblical references, and no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 2Corinthians 11:14. Be careful, for Satan is wiser than Daniel; there is no secret that can be hidden from him, understand? How can the believers fight against the devilish traps and strategies of the Devil if are not knowing so well the depths of Satan?
You said that If I think there's holes,how am I believe and trust the rest of it and where I draw the line,so I must say that the
limit of the line is in Genesis 2:16-17 and 3:1 combined with Matthew 16:23.Take a look.By the way,his throat is an open sepulchre
You said that I'm using a different translation, and asked so how I know its more accurate and not less accurate.Well,well, I used and am using the same source you used to quote Isaiah 12:1-2,right? Tell me:What Scripture is more accurate?The original Hebrew Scriptures,or the copies of the Hebrew Scriptures that were transcribed in a lot and different translations?
Furthermore, answer your question if I have any more evidence, so let me ask: Is there evidence more truer than the true Word of GOD? The evidence is the Word of GOD. The testimony of GOD is greater.
As you know,the Word of GOD is from everlasting to everlasting,the Word is GOD
Hello Oseas. I've been following this thread & like Adam, am somewhat confused by your claim that the Names of God we read in the Hebrew we have (& what Israel has), are incorrect, indeed satanic.
You've just written, "Tell me: What Scripture is more accurate? The original Hebrew Scriptures, or the copies of the Hebrew Scriptures that were transcribed in a lot and different translations?" If this is so, i.e. you are quoting from the "original Hebrew", then could you supply your references where you learnt this so I may research this as well? Because it certainly is a serious matter if both Jews & Christians (then and now) are reading corrupt copies of the original.
As an example, when speaking with Muslims, I learned that they claim that our Bibles are corrupt, as Jews & Christians (the people of the Book), have changed verses, even removed or added some, making the Bible untrustworthy. So naturally I asked them to show me those changes that were made, & unfortunately but expectedly, they weren't able to, simply because they were parroting what they were told by their imams. In fact, the Qur'an also states that God can remove, change or replace a verse in the Qur'an (2:106; 16:101), but no Muslim can tell us whether what they read presently are true words or false since they might be reading words that have gone through revisions or deletions. Likewise, it is important to know the original, which you refer to, so that we may understand the matter & your belief in it. Thank you.
This discussion started for myself when Adam quoted Isaiah 12:1-2, and appeared the pseudo name of Jehovah, which was inadvertently added into the translation from the original source.
Comparing what Adam quoted from Isaiah 12:1-2 in the translations of Scriptures, with the Complete Jewish Bible, here's the difference:
Adam quoted: Is.12:1-2:
1- And in that day thou shalt say, O Lord, I will praise thee: though thou wast angry with me, thine anger is turned away, and thou comfortedst me.
2 Behold, God is my salvation; I will trust, and not be afraid: for the Lord JEHOVAH is my strength and my song; he also is become my salvation.
From Complete Jewish Bible-Is.12:1-2: (Comparison-see the difference)
1And you shall say on that day,"I will thank You,O Lord,for You were wroth with me;may Your wrath turn away and may You comfort me.
2Here is the GOD of my salvation,"I shall trust and not fear;for the strength and praise of the Eternal the Lord was my salvation."
So, Isaiah didn't cited the name of Devil when he preached the message to the people of Israel.Isaiah had the Spirit of Christ, understand?He was a messianic prophet,you know of this.By the way,JESUS still was in the bosom of the Father- John 1:18
You said I should supply my references that you may research this too,I agree,but I did not still do this because the site doesn't accept to post links.My assertions were based from a source called chabad,try to find it: It's Tanakh, the Hebrew Bible, Ketuvin(Scriptures).
As you said, it certainly is a serious matter if both Jews and Christians(then and now)are reading corrupt copies of the original.
Between both Scriptures above quoted,which of them is approved by the Holy Spirit?Only one is true,and approved by the Spirit of Truth.In my vision is the original source,but I'm referring strictly to this portion of Scriptures- Isaiah 12:1-2.
Therefore with joy shall we draw water out of the wells of salvation.
Thank you Oseas, that was helpful to me & I did pursue research into what you shared. I first looked at the Complete Jewish Bible & then the Tanakh, and read Isaiah 12:1,2 as follows:
1. On that day you will say: "I thank you, ADONAI, because, although you were angry at me, your anger is now turned away; and you are comforting me.
2. See! God is my salvation. I am confident and unafraid; for Yah ADONAI is my strength and my song, and he has become my salvation! (These verses are a little different to what you've given from the CJB & I wasn't able to easily find online a CJB that read exactly as yours).
Then in the Tanakh, Isaiah 12:1,2 reads:
1. And you shall say on that day, "I will thank You, O Lord, for You were wroth with me; may Your wrath turn away and may You comfort me.
2. Here is the God of my salvation, I shall trust and not fear; for the strength and praise of the Eternal the Lord was my salvation. (So in the Tanakh as well, even though the wording is different, you are correct, Yahweh is not given).
Now let's look at another example: Exodus 6:2,3 (KJV):
2. And God spake unto Moses, and said unto him, I am the LORD:
3. And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.
In the CJB:
2. God spoke to Moshe; he said to him, "I am ADONAI.
3. I appeared to Avraham, Yitz'chak and Ya'akov as El Shaddai, although I did not make myself known to them by my name, Yud-Heh-Vav-Heh [ADONAI].
And in the Tanakh:
2. God spoke to Moses, and He said to him, "I am the Lord.
3. I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob with [the name] Almighty God, but [with] My name YHWH, I did not become known to them. (you may want to re-check these against your readings).
What matters and prevails is the Truth,GOD is Truth,and the Truth is only One,The Word Himself is GOD.
You just confirmed by quoting that in original source of Scriptures there is not Yahweh(see,Satan is behind this name,and in his devilish strategy he introduce himself in short as a demonic tetragram YHWH),but the point is also Jehovah,this is another name of the father of the Jews,the father of lie- John 8:44-says it be GOD's name.
But the Devil,father of the Jews,as my Lord JESUS said- John 8:44- father of the lie,he invented another names,you just brings more one fictitious name of GOD invented by the man of sin-the Devil-it is ADONAI,the Devil as a God.Those which invoke Jehovah, Yahweh, YHWH, Adonai.among other fictitious names given by Satan to my GOD,father of JESUS, in fact they are invoking the Devil, CAN YOU SEE? This miscellany/ hodgepodge of names invented by the Devil as if they were names of GOD is a satanic strategy to replace or to erase he NAME of JESUS. Now, the command of the Lord JESUS is to cast down the Devil from heaven to the bottomless pit, chaining him with a great chain. The dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the Devil and Satan will be chained and threw into the bottomless pit, locked and sealed, so that he could not deceive the nations no more.
Exodus 6:2,3(KJV),CJB and Tanack:
The Word, GOD Himself, GOD in Person,He never said His name is Jehovah,and ADONAI,and YHWH,and Yahweh, among other names.In fact Satan invented the names trying to corrupt the Holy Scriptures, the true Word of GOD, the Word is GOD, self-executing, understand?You can see how the Devil, the father of the Jews, father of the lie,has corrupted the original Scriptures through corrupted translations,the Devil always corrupted the nation of Israel through his false prophets and with his idolatries and sorceries, and has also done the same within the Church of my Lord JESUS sowing his tares. The time now is of harvest. Get ready
I have to be careful here how I relay this as I commented previously about the NAMES and my comment was not published. The Y names are present in a source that I won't provide name of the source as it will dismiss my comment. The source has the Y NAMES as insults to Jesus. That is how I know the Y names are erroneous and blasphemous.
Very interesting.You know:2Ti.3:1-This know also,in the last days PERILOUS times shall come.Why? 2Timothy 2-5 give us extense list why perilous times. And Re.2:9&24-29 reveal:9I know thy works, tribulation and poverty(but thou art rich)and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews and are not,but are synagogue of Satan. 24-But unto you I say, as many as have not this doctrine and have not known the depths of Satan,as they speak;I will put upon you none other burden.
25That which ye have already hold fast till I come.
26And he that overcomes,and keeps my works unto the end,to him will I give power over the nations:
27And he shall rule them with a rod of iron;as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers:even as I received of my Father.
28And I will give him the morning star.
29He that hath an ear,let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
About Satan,the MAN of sin,son of perdition,the Word of GOD reveals:Is.14:13-14:
13Thou hast said in thine heart:
(1)I will ascend into heaven(heaven? Ephesians 1:3-8),I will exalt my throne above the stars of GOD(above GOD's stars?See Daniel 12:3, always be careful,perilous times now,also according Re.12:4.Take a look):
(2)I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation,in the sides of the north:(Why Satan intends to sit in the sides of north?Ps.48:2 reveals why:Beautiful for situation,the joy of the whole earth,is mount Zion,on the sides of the north,the city of the great King-JESUS-
14I will ascend above the heights of the clouds;I will be like the most High(clouds? Revelation 12:14& Isaiah 60:8).Satan,a former Cherub, ruler of Eden,intends to be equal GOD.Ez.28:1-10 reveal:2Thus saith the Lord God;Thine heart is lifted up,and thou say,I am a God,I sit in the seat of GOD,in the midst of the seas(nations);thou art a MAN,not God,though thou set thine heart as God's heart:
I will bring strangers,the terrible of the nations,against thee:they shall draw the Sword against the beauty of thy wisdom.
Thanks for your response Oseas. Actually, what I did present was that "Yahweh" IS seen elsewhere in the Word. In John 8:44, Jesus is deriding the Jews for holding onto lies instead of believing Jesus' Words of Truth to them; this verse doesn't suggest that Satan initiated these supposed lies of the Names of God - here was Satan playing with their minds & hearts against Christ & not against what was written in the Word of God, which even Satan cannot deny. So we cannot assume that the 'father of lies' has forced upon us these 'false' Names of God; what we do need to do to prove it, is to ascertain if the original writings didn't have these Names. So far, we have gone back to the CJB & Tanakh: would there be any older genuine Hebraic writings available to us that show us differently? If not, we simply can't speculate or assume, for that in itself would lead us in error.
Re: Exodus 6:2,3. As I re-read it again, I believe that God Himself is telling Moses (& all who read His Word), that His Name is Jehovah but this Name was not known to Abraham, Isaac, & Jacob. They knew Him as "God Almighty" (El Shaddai: the Almighty God) as seen in Genesis 17:1:
"And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the ALMIGHTY GOD (El Shaddai); walk before me, and be thou perfect".
God here in Exodus is stating Who He is to His people under this special Covenant. If you believe that this is not what God said, then I can't go further with it, because I read it with plain understanding. All I can see, is that these names, which you find detestable & demonic, are Hebrew words of God showing Himself in His fullness. But where we have God's compound Names (e.g. Jehovah-Jireh/Ropheka/Nissi/Shalom/Sabaoth/and others) these I will admit are Names that are given when Israel saw their God at Work in their presence but most certainly NOT Satan-inspired names. If anything is debatable or problematic, then we need to search for proof.
You posted that ''when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the ALMIGHTY GOD (El Shaddai); walk before me, and be thou perfect".
Who is the Almight GOD? My Lord JESUS said: I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty- Revelation 1:8.
JESUS is the Lord, understand? JESUS is the Almighty, not other name except JESUS is the Almighty- Matthew 28:18
My Lord JESUS and GOD the Father are One. The Word is GOD, GOD Himself, when He was made flesh around 2000 years ago, GOD called Himself of JESUS, don't you know? JESUS /JOSHUA is the true NAME of GOD.
If you believe the name of the I AM is El Shaddai you are believing the Devil.
Cris, be careful and don't fall in the Devil traps.
Well Oseas, from reading of your beliefs, I'm unable to place where you exactly are with this. You were first dealing with the Name of God in Isaiah. You've now quoted Acts 7:53-58, particularly verse 55, "But he (Stephen), being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God". In the NT, Koine Greek is the language used. If you believe that the Hebrew 'Yahweh' written of God in the OT is a devilish name, does this also apply to the Greek word for God: 'Theos'?
You asked, "what GOD's NAME was manifested by my Lord JESUS?" Yet, reading the rest of your comments, it appears to me that you hold to an "only Jesus is in Heaven" position, that when Jesus was made flesh, "GOD called Himself Jesus.." Really!!! So, as not to be mistaken, are you in that camp, that says 'that since God is in Christ that only Jesus is now in Heaven'? I'm hoping that I've misunderstood you, as we know most assuredly that when Jesus ascended into Heaven, He went back to the Father & is seated at His right Hand ( John 20:17, Acts 2:32,33, Romans 8:34, Hebrews 1:3, 1 Peter 3:22, etc.). So, NOT two Gods, but the One God, with Jesus His Son Who came forth out of God now distinct from Him through the incarnation. Thus He rightly fully claims the eternity of the Godhead (the Alpha & Omega), & also receives the worship of all. So your comments are troubling, if that is your position.
You ought to know the Bible as it is intended to be understood. You ask "what GOD's NAME was manifested by my Lord JESUS?"
You cannot be more in the know of Name than the Son. My Father and I are one" DNA of the Father was in his Son so he obeyed him which is what you ought to be doing than nit-picking. We are concerned with holiness of God no amount of your name calling shall help if you do not abide in the Son and learn of him.
Well Oseas, I can only think of how Jesus spoke about the One Who sent Him. Of course, Jesus called Him, God (Theos); Father (Pater; Abba - more intimate); Lord (Kurios).
I'm a disciple of JESUS, who said from He himself " I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning( Genesis 1:1) and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the ALMIGHTY.
My Lord JESUS in His pray to the Father, said: John 17:5-6
5 Now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the WORLD was.
6 I have manifested thy NAME unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy Word.
Chris, what GOD's NAME was manifested by my Lord JESUS?
So, I think you will notice the differences between the KJB & these other translations (even when looking at the 'modern' English translations). What are your thoughts on this?
Can we then say that Jehovah, Adonai, etc. are spurious, satanic names, or rather, it is how the translators have understood the texts & translated them. And not forgetting, to some Jews, the uttering of God's Name was forbidden (by breaking the 3rd Commandment, thus the use of HaShem in substitute).
When we have so many different renderings of these verses, I believe it is safer & wiser to state that the Name that God proclaimed to His people Israel ( Exodus 6:3: the proper personal Name given to those in a Covenant relationship with Him), was indeed Jehovah. And the other Names used of Him are also valid (which describe God's Nature & Work as manifested to Israel); used or not used for pure reasons & motives, and I believe, not for evil reasons.
As you and all can see, Satan contamined and corrupted the environment of the heavenly place established by my GOD here, in fact the environment of the first heavenly place, the first Covenant, the Old Testament, and the Jews of the synagogue of Satan, the killers of the prophets of GOD, yeah, by these disguised Jews GOD's Name was forbidden(by breaking the 3rd Commandment,thus the use of HaShem in substitute), yeah, HaShem, another name of Devil to substitute, to replace the true name of GOD,whose NAME they never wanted to hear speaking.
HaShem and the gold calf are the same, idolatry and sorcery of the Jews of the synagogue of Satan
Stephen in His preaching to the Jews said unto them: Acts 7:53-58
53 Israel have received the law by the disposition of angels, and they have not kept it.
54 When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.
55 But Stephen,being full of the Holy Spirit,looked up stedfastly into heaven,and saw the glory of GOD,and JESUS standing on the right hand of GOD,(not on the right hand of HaShen, Jehovah, Adonai, YHWH, Yahveh, or other DEMONS)
56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of GOD.
57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord,
58 And cast Stephen out of the city, and stoned him:
After their hardness and impenitent heart treasured up unto themselves wrath in this Day of wrath and revelation of the righteous Judgment of GOD;
6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds
But after their hardness and impenitent heart, they treasured up unto themselves wrath against this Day of wrath and revelation of the righteous Judgment of GOD; Unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the Truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
Oseas, thank you for the response. It seems you wrote a lot of words on the general topic but still I don't see any evidence of your claim being true.
Your first paragraph, you said the evidence is the Word of God, but the Word of God says God's name is Jehovah and it sounds like you don't like that translation of that verse. The original Hebrew says it too. You said His name isn't there, but it is there. I noticed you used a different English translation- you wrote: "for the strength and praise of the Eternal the Lord was my salvation." This is why I mentioned Strongs that identifies that specific original Hebrew word. Even anti-God, anti-Christian sites like wikipedia agree YHWH is the "the proper name of the God of Israel in the Hebrew Bible".
The second paragraph you wrote is quite a scary sounding belief and I would be very careful what words you use about God especially on a public forum that may affect others. Some might perceive this attacking God as a heresy or blasphemy of the holy spirit. That sure would be scary to call God a bad name and spread anti-God information and put your eternity at risk because of some false assumptions.
Thanks for the interaction, but it seems there's nothing more to discuss on this topic. That's an outrageous claim against God with no evidence to support it. Trying to discredit the KJV on a KJV site is bold and I wonder if there a reason you read the KJV if you don't believe it?
Pardon me for not remembering your beliefs, but do you consider yourself a Christ follower or affiliate yourself with a certain denomination?
It's a pleasure to hear from you and from other brothers in Christ. We know that we are living in the last days, days of perilous times- 2Timothy 3:1. Yes, I have assert my evidence is the everlasting Word of GOD, the Word is GOD Himself, understand? And He never said His name is Jehovah, The original Hebrew says it not, this name was surreptitiously added in the translations of Scriptures by the Devil, even in the current translations of Hebrew Bible, the Torah. By the way, not only the satanic name/nickname Jehovah, but also other devilish NICKNAMES like YHWH, Yahweh, Yehovah,Elohim, Adonai, HaShem, Yahusha, YEHshia, Jehovah, YEHvah.
Well, my GOD is a devouring / consuming fire, understand? As you know, Satan was/is the more subtil than any Beast of the field(the world is the field) which the Lord GOD had made. Satan is the tree of good and evil -the figtree- , so when Satan said unto Adam and Eve they were naked, they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons, indeed they put on the clothes that the Devil gave them. This satanic event occurred around 6000 years ago. Terrible, very terrible.
I understand you and probably others are astonished with these revelations, but what matters and prevails is the righteous Judgment of GOD- Romans 2-, isn't it?
Oh no, I'm not against the true GOD as you are saying here, quite the opposite, I know Him and His Son JESUS, my older brother. The true believers know that whosoever is born of GOD sins not against Him. He that is begotten of GOD keeps himself, and the Wicked one touches him not.
1John 5:19-20
19 And we know that we are of GOD, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.
20 And we know that the Son of GOD is come,and has given us an understanding,that we may know Him that is true,and we are in Him that is true, even in His Son Jesus Christ.This is the true GOD and eternal life(not the satanic Jehovah, YHWH, Yahweh, Yehovah,Elohim, Adonai, HaShem, Yahusha, YEHshia, YEHvah)
Good question. We are face to a deep and terrible puzzle/enigma. The most important is the Truth. GOD is Truth. The Word is GOD. The Word is from everlasting to everlasting. The GOD's people needs to investigate and seek Truth.
Replying to your question, I must say that NAME does not exist in the original Hebrew Scripture, it was simply added.
Remember, JESUS said: Re.22:18 -> I testify unto every man that hears the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, GOD shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book.
What matters and prevails is the pure Word of GOD. Isaiah 12:3KJV says: Therefore with joy shall ye draw water out of the wells of salvation. (Jo.7:38-> He that believes on me, as the Scripture has said,out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. Compare with John 5:37-47)
4 And in that Day (in this current Day, the seventh and last Day) shall ye say, Praise the Lord, call upon his name, declare his doings among the people, make mention that his name is exalted.(This will LITERALLY be fulfilled: Revelation 7:1-8. 144K)
5 Sing unto the Lord; for he hath done excellent things: this is known in all the earth. -> ( Revelation 11:15-18, among other biblical references.Take a look)
6 Cry out and shout, you inhabitant of Zion: for great is the Holy One of Israel in the midst of thee. -> (Re.1:7-8-> 8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, sais the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. ->7 Behold,He comes with clouds;and every eye shall see Him, and they also which pierced Him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
GOD BLESS
"I must say that NAME does not exist in the original Hebrew Scripture, it was simply added."
That's quite a claim. Do you realize you're basically accusing not just the KJV but the Bible in general for being wrong, is that what you're saying? Are these 4 verses with Jehovah the only scriptures you feel this way about or other parts of the Bible too? If you think there's holes, how do you believe and trust the rest of it and where do you draw the line?
What is your evidence that a name "does not exist in the original Hebrew" and was "simply added"?
Do you believe the Strong's identifier for this word?
What part of it do you think is wrong and what do you think it should be and what is the evidence for your opinion being right and dozens of expert translators being wrong?
Adam
As you know, the Bible is about two Covenants- The OT and NT.
What we are commenting is about the OT, not about the NT, for there is not that NAME or nickname in the NT. Remember: You quoted Isaiah 12:1-2.
Isaiah 16:-1-2 in the OT -Nevin'im(Prophets) Yeshayahu(Isaiah) is written as follow:
1 And you shall say on that day, I will thank You, O Lord, for You were wroth with me, may Your wrath turn away and may You comfort me.
2 Here is the God of my salvation, I shall trust and not fear; for the strength and praise of the Eternal the Lord was my salvation.
In fact that name was added in the translations inadvertently, but the name you have mentioned it is not the only fictitious name or nickname added in the OT (not added in the Bible as a whole-OT&NT), there are several others: I have listed YHWH, Yahweh, Yehovah,Elohim, Adonai, HaShem, Yahusha, YEHshia, Jehovah, YEHvah, these names are not NAMES of GOD, quite the opposite, all these names listed are strictly the names of the father of the Jews- John 8:44 combined with Revelation 12:3-4.
JESUS in His prayer to the Father, said: John 17:6 - I have manifested thy NAME unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: ... -->What's NAME?)
Thanks for the reply but it seems you just repeated your original claim without any evidence for it.
You said JEHOVAH isn't there, but you're just using a different translation, so how do you know its more accurate and not less accurate?
Do you have any more evidence?
Adam
I repeated the original evidence because there is not greater EVIDENCE than the everlasting Word of GOD, is there? The Word is GOD, the invisible, the Omnipotent, and Omniscient and Omnipresent GOD, for me it is He Who is "the Strong's identifier". The Word is self-executing / executable because the Word is GOD, understand? Psalm 33:9 - He -the Word- spake, and it was done; He commanded, and it stood fast.
Yes,I stated that the added name Jehovah(a demonic name of Satan)is not in the original Scriptures as being GOD,Father of my Lord JESUS, but as Lucifer,the son of perdition,father of the Jews as said my Lord JESUS- John 8:44-,transfigured as God- Isaiah 14 combined with 2Thes.2:2-3 among other biblical references, and no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 2Corinthians 11:14. Be careful, for Satan is wiser than Daniel; there is no secret that can be hidden from him, understand? How can the believers fight against the devilish traps and strategies of the Devil if are not knowing so well the depths of Satan?
You said that If I think there's holes,how am I believe and trust the rest of it and where I draw the line,so I must say that the
limit of the line is in Genesis 2:16-17 and 3:1 combined with Matthew 16:23.Take a look.By the way,his throat is an open sepulchre
You said that I'm using a different translation, and asked so how I know its more accurate and not less accurate.Well,well, I used and am using the same source you used to quote Isaiah 12:1-2,right? Tell me:What Scripture is more accurate?The original Hebrew Scriptures,or the copies of the Hebrew Scriptures that were transcribed in a lot and different translations?
Furthermore, answer your question if I have any more evidence, so let me ask: Is there evidence more truer than the true Word of GOD? The evidence is the Word of GOD. The testimony of GOD is greater.
As you know,the Word of GOD is from everlasting to everlasting,the Word is GOD
You've just written, "Tell me: What Scripture is more accurate? The original Hebrew Scriptures, or the copies of the Hebrew Scriptures that were transcribed in a lot and different translations?" If this is so, i.e. you are quoting from the "original Hebrew", then could you supply your references where you learnt this so I may research this as well? Because it certainly is a serious matter if both Jews & Christians (then and now) are reading corrupt copies of the original.
As an example, when speaking with Muslims, I learned that they claim that our Bibles are corrupt, as Jews & Christians (the people of the Book), have changed verses, even removed or added some, making the Bible untrustworthy. So naturally I asked them to show me those changes that were made, & unfortunately but expectedly, they weren't able to, simply because they were parroting what they were told by their imams. In fact, the Qur'an also states that God can remove, change or replace a verse in the Qur'an (2:106; 16:101), but no Muslim can tell us whether what they read presently are true words or false since they might be reading words that have gone through revisions or deletions. Likewise, it is important to know the original, which you refer to, so that we may understand the matter & your belief in it. Thank you.
This discussion started for myself when Adam quoted Isaiah 12:1-2, and appeared the pseudo name of Jehovah, which was inadvertently added into the translation from the original source.
Comparing what Adam quoted from Isaiah 12:1-2 in the translations of Scriptures, with the Complete Jewish Bible, here's the difference:
Adam quoted: Is.12:1-2:
1- And in that day thou shalt say, O Lord, I will praise thee: though thou wast angry with me, thine anger is turned away, and thou comfortedst me.
2 Behold, God is my salvation; I will trust, and not be afraid: for the Lord JEHOVAH is my strength and my song; he also is become my salvation.
From Complete Jewish Bible-Is.12:1-2: (Comparison-see the difference)
1And you shall say on that day,"I will thank You,O Lord,for You were wroth with me;may Your wrath turn away and may You comfort me.
2Here is the GOD of my salvation,"I shall trust and not fear;for the strength and praise of the Eternal the Lord was my salvation."
So, Isaiah didn't cited the name of Devil when he preached the message to the people of Israel.Isaiah had the Spirit of Christ, understand?He was a messianic prophet,you know of this.By the way,JESUS still was in the bosom of the Father- John 1:18
You said I should supply my references that you may research this too,I agree,but I did not still do this because the site doesn't accept to post links.My assertions were based from a source called chabad,try to find it: It's Tanakh, the Hebrew Bible, Ketuvin(Scriptures).
As you said, it certainly is a serious matter if both Jews and Christians(then and now)are reading corrupt copies of the original.
Between both Scriptures above quoted,which of them is approved by the Holy Spirit?Only one is true,and approved by the Spirit of Truth.In my vision is the original source,but I'm referring strictly to this portion of Scriptures- Isaiah 12:1-2.
Therefore with joy shall we draw water out of the wells of salvation.
Thank you Oseas, that was helpful to me & I did pursue research into what you shared. I first looked at the Complete Jewish Bible & then the Tanakh, and read Isaiah 12:1,2 as follows:
1. On that day you will say: "I thank you, ADONAI, because, although you were angry at me, your anger is now turned away; and you are comforting me.
2. See! God is my salvation. I am confident and unafraid; for Yah ADONAI is my strength and my song, and he has become my salvation! (These verses are a little different to what you've given from the CJB & I wasn't able to easily find online a CJB that read exactly as yours).
Then in the Tanakh, Isaiah 12:1,2 reads:
1. And you shall say on that day, "I will thank You, O Lord, for You were wroth with me; may Your wrath turn away and may You comfort me.
2. Here is the God of my salvation, I shall trust and not fear; for the strength and praise of the Eternal the Lord was my salvation. (So in the Tanakh as well, even though the wording is different, you are correct, Yahweh is not given).
Now let's look at another example: Exodus 6:2,3 (KJV):
2. And God spake unto Moses, and said unto him, I am the LORD:
3. And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.
In the CJB:
2. God spoke to Moshe; he said to him, "I am ADONAI.
3. I appeared to Avraham, Yitz'chak and Ya'akov as El Shaddai, although I did not make myself known to them by my name, Yud-Heh-Vav-Heh [ADONAI].
And in the Tanakh:
2. God spoke to Moses, and He said to him, "I am the Lord.
3. I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob with [the name] Almighty God, but [with] My name YHWH, I did not become known to them. (you may want to re-check these against your readings).
What matters and prevails is the Truth,GOD is Truth,and the Truth is only One,The Word Himself is GOD.
You just confirmed by quoting that in original source of Scriptures there is not Yahweh(see,Satan is behind this name,and in his devilish strategy he introduce himself in short as a demonic tetragram YHWH),but the point is also Jehovah,this is another name of the father of the Jews,the father of lie- John 8:44-says it be GOD's name.
But the Devil,father of the Jews,as my Lord JESUS said- John 8:44- father of the lie,he invented another names,you just brings more one fictitious name of GOD invented by the man of sin-the Devil-it is ADONAI,the Devil as a God.Those which invoke Jehovah, Yahweh, YHWH, Adonai.among other fictitious names given by Satan to my GOD,father of JESUS, in fact they are invoking the Devil, CAN YOU SEE? This miscellany/ hodgepodge of names invented by the Devil as if they were names of GOD is a satanic strategy to replace or to erase he NAME of JESUS. Now, the command of the Lord JESUS is to cast down the Devil from heaven to the bottomless pit, chaining him with a great chain. The dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the Devil and Satan will be chained and threw into the bottomless pit, locked and sealed, so that he could not deceive the nations no more.
Exodus 6:2,3(KJV),CJB and Tanack:
The Word, GOD Himself, GOD in Person,He never said His name is Jehovah,and ADONAI,and YHWH,and Yahweh, among other names.In fact Satan invented the names trying to corrupt the Holy Scriptures, the true Word of GOD, the Word is GOD, self-executing, understand?You can see how the Devil, the father of the Jews, father of the lie,has corrupted the original Scriptures through corrupted translations,the Devil always corrupted the nation of Israel through his false prophets and with his idolatries and sorceries, and has also done the same within the Church of my Lord JESUS sowing his tares. The time now is of harvest. Get ready
25That which ye have already hold fast till I come.
26And he that overcomes,and keeps my works unto the end,to him will I give power over the nations:
27And he shall rule them with a rod of iron;as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers:even as I received of my Father.
28And I will give him the morning star.
29He that hath an ear,let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
About Satan,the MAN of sin,son of perdition,the Word of GOD reveals:Is.14:13-14:
13Thou hast said in thine heart:
(1)I will ascend into heaven(heaven? Ephesians 1:3-8),I will exalt my throne above the stars of GOD(above GOD's stars?See Daniel 12:3, always be careful,perilous times now,also according Re.12:4.Take a look):
(2)I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation,in the sides of the north:(Why Satan intends to sit in the sides of north?Ps.48:2 reveals why:Beautiful for situation,the joy of the whole earth,is mount Zion,on the sides of the north,the city of the great King-JESUS-
14I will ascend above the heights of the clouds;I will be like the most High(clouds? Revelation 12:14& Isaiah 60:8).Satan,a former Cherub, ruler of Eden,intends to be equal GOD.Ez.28:1-10 reveal:2Thus saith the Lord God;Thine heart is lifted up,and thou say,I am a God,I sit in the seat of GOD,in the midst of the seas(nations);thou art a MAN,not God,though thou set thine heart as God's heart:
I will bring strangers,the terrible of the nations,against thee:they shall draw the Sword against the beauty of thy wisdom.
Re: Exodus 6:2,3. As I re-read it again, I believe that God Himself is telling Moses (& all who read His Word), that His Name is Jehovah but this Name was not known to Abraham, Isaac, & Jacob. They knew Him as "God Almighty" (El Shaddai: the Almighty God) as seen in Genesis 17:1:
"And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the ALMIGHTY GOD (El Shaddai); walk before me, and be thou perfect".
God here in Exodus is stating Who He is to His people under this special Covenant. If you believe that this is not what God said, then I can't go further with it, because I read it with plain understanding. All I can see, is that these names, which you find detestable & demonic, are Hebrew words of God showing Himself in His fullness. But where we have God's compound Names (e.g. Jehovah-Jireh/Ropheka/Nissi/Shalom/Sabaoth/and others) these I will admit are Names that are given when Israel saw their God at Work in their presence but most certainly NOT Satan-inspired names. If anything is debatable or problematic, then we need to search for proof.
You posted that ''when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the ALMIGHTY GOD (El Shaddai); walk before me, and be thou perfect".
Who is the Almight GOD? My Lord JESUS said: I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty- Revelation 1:8.
JESUS is the Lord, understand? JESUS is the Almighty, not other name except JESUS is the Almighty- Matthew 28:18
My Lord JESUS and GOD the Father are One. The Word is GOD, GOD Himself, when He was made flesh around 2000 years ago, GOD called Himself of JESUS, don't you know? JESUS /JOSHUA is the true NAME of GOD.
If you believe the name of the I AM is El Shaddai you are believing the Devil.
Cris, be careful and don't fall in the Devil traps.
You asked, "what GOD's NAME was manifested by my Lord JESUS?" Yet, reading the rest of your comments, it appears to me that you hold to an "only Jesus is in Heaven" position, that when Jesus was made flesh, "GOD called Himself Jesus.." Really!!! So, as not to be mistaken, are you in that camp, that says 'that since God is in Christ that only Jesus is now in Heaven'? I'm hoping that I've misunderstood you, as we know most assuredly that when Jesus ascended into Heaven, He went back to the Father & is seated at His right Hand ( John 20:17, Acts 2:32,33, Romans 8:34, Hebrews 1:3, 1 Peter 3:22, etc.). So, NOT two Gods, but the One God, with Jesus His Son Who came forth out of God now distinct from Him through the incarnation. Thus He rightly fully claims the eternity of the Godhead (the Alpha & Omega), & also receives the worship of all. So your comments are troubling, if that is your position.
My Lord JESUS / JOSHUA manefested the name of GOD.
Chris and all, what GOD's NAME was manifested by my Lord JESUS?
You ought to know the Bible as it is intended to be understood. You ask "what GOD's NAME was manifested by my Lord JESUS?"
You cannot be more in the know of Name than the Son. My Father and I are one" DNA of the Father was in his Son so he obeyed him which is what you ought to be doing than nit-picking. We are concerned with holiness of God no amount of your name calling shall help if you do not abide in the Son and learn of him.
I'm a disciple of JESUS, who said from He himself " I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning( Genesis 1:1) and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the ALMIGHTY.
My Lord JESUS in His pray to the Father, said: John 17:5-6
5 Now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the WORLD was.
6 I have manifested thy NAME unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy Word.
Chris, what GOD's NAME was manifested by my Lord JESUS?
So, I think you will notice the differences between the KJB & these other translations (even when looking at the 'modern' English translations). What are your thoughts on this?
Can we then say that Jehovah, Adonai, etc. are spurious, satanic names, or rather, it is how the translators have understood the texts & translated them. And not forgetting, to some Jews, the uttering of God's Name was forbidden (by breaking the 3rd Commandment, thus the use of HaShem in substitute).
When we have so many different renderings of these verses, I believe it is safer & wiser to state that the Name that God proclaimed to His people Israel ( Exodus 6:3: the proper personal Name given to those in a Covenant relationship with Him), was indeed Jehovah. And the other Names used of Him are also valid (which describe God's Nature & Work as manifested to Israel); used or not used for pure reasons & motives, and I believe, not for evil reasons.
As you and all can see, Satan contamined and corrupted the environment of the heavenly place established by my GOD here, in fact the environment of the first heavenly place, the first Covenant, the Old Testament, and the Jews of the synagogue of Satan, the killers of the prophets of GOD, yeah, by these disguised Jews GOD's Name was forbidden(by breaking the 3rd Commandment,thus the use of HaShem in substitute), yeah, HaShem, another name of Devil to substitute, to replace the true name of GOD,whose NAME they never wanted to hear speaking.
HaShem and the gold calf are the same, idolatry and sorcery of the Jews of the synagogue of Satan
Stephen in His preaching to the Jews said unto them: Acts 7:53-58
53 Israel have received the law by the disposition of angels, and they have not kept it.
54 When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.
55 But Stephen,being full of the Holy Spirit,looked up stedfastly into heaven,and saw the glory of GOD,and JESUS standing on the right hand of GOD,(not on the right hand of HaShen, Jehovah, Adonai, YHWH, Yahveh, or other DEMONS)
56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of GOD.
57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord,
58 And cast Stephen out of the city, and stoned him:
After their hardness and impenitent heart treasured up unto themselves wrath in this Day of wrath and revelation of the righteous Judgment of GOD;
6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds
But after their hardness and impenitent heart, they treasured up unto themselves wrath against this Day of wrath and revelation of the righteous Judgment of GOD; Unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the Truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
Get ready
Your first paragraph, you said the evidence is the Word of God, but the Word of God says God's name is Jehovah and it sounds like you don't like that translation of that verse. The original Hebrew says it too. You said His name isn't there, but it is there. I noticed you used a different English translation- you wrote: "for the strength and praise of the Eternal the Lord was my salvation." This is why I mentioned Strongs that identifies that specific original Hebrew word. Even anti-God, anti-Christian sites like wikipedia agree YHWH is the "the proper name of the God of Israel in the Hebrew Bible".
The second paragraph you wrote is quite a scary sounding belief and I would be very careful what words you use about God especially on a public forum that may affect others. Some might perceive this attacking God as a heresy or blasphemy of the holy spirit. That sure would be scary to call God a bad name and spread anti-God information and put your eternity at risk because of some false assumptions.
Thanks for the interaction, but it seems there's nothing more to discuss on this topic. That's an outrageous claim against God with no evidence to support it. Trying to discredit the KJV on a KJV site is bold and I wonder if there a reason you read the KJV if you don't believe it?
Pardon me for not remembering your beliefs, but do you consider yourself a Christ follower or affiliate yourself with a certain denomination?
Adam
It's a pleasure to hear from you and from other brothers in Christ. We know that we are living in the last days, days of perilous times- 2Timothy 3:1. Yes, I have assert my evidence is the everlasting Word of GOD, the Word is GOD Himself, understand? And He never said His name is Jehovah, The original Hebrew says it not, this name was surreptitiously added in the translations of Scriptures by the Devil, even in the current translations of Hebrew Bible, the Torah. By the way, not only the satanic name/nickname Jehovah, but also other devilish NICKNAMES like YHWH, Yahweh, Yehovah,Elohim, Adonai, HaShem, Yahusha, YEHshia, Jehovah, YEHvah.
Well, my GOD is a devouring / consuming fire, understand? As you know, Satan was/is the more subtil than any Beast of the field(the world is the field) which the Lord GOD had made. Satan is the tree of good and evil -the figtree- , so when Satan said unto Adam and Eve they were naked, they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons, indeed they put on the clothes that the Devil gave them. This satanic event occurred around 6000 years ago. Terrible, very terrible.
I understand you and probably others are astonished with these revelations, but what matters and prevails is the righteous Judgment of GOD- Romans 2-, isn't it?
Oh no, I'm not against the true GOD as you are saying here, quite the opposite, I know Him and His Son JESUS, my older brother. The true believers know that whosoever is born of GOD sins not against Him. He that is begotten of GOD keeps himself, and the Wicked one touches him not.
1John 5:19-20
19 And we know that we are of GOD, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.
20 And we know that the Son of GOD is come,and has given us an understanding,that we may know Him that is true,and we are in Him that is true, even in His Son Jesus Christ.This is the true GOD and eternal life(not the satanic Jehovah, YHWH, Yahweh, Yehovah,Elohim, Adonai, HaShem, Yahusha, YEHshia, YEHvah)
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